Roll call for officiating conspiracy believers

[CorkScrewHill]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I'm the first to admit when I'm wrong and that I drone on about a few topics - turnovers, replay challenges for all plays, and how bad Murphy is come to mind.  

 

I would like folks on this board to admit if they really believe the officiating of games is fixed or even influenced by certain owners and teams.  Complaints about the officiating is one of the most annoying things about this board and in particular the in-game thread. 

My hunch is most of it is just frustration but I'm also a bit scared to see how many people actually think the fix is in.

 

I think better teams and better players will get the benefit of the doubt a few times a game. But I also think that is no different in any sport. I also think the officials make amazing spots and calls in full speed real time the vast majority of the time. They also miss things, but not to the benefit or detriment to any specific teams. 

I think in a way you believe that there is inherent bias ... the ref has teams they like.. or the ref gives the benefit of the doubt to certain teams or certain players. If it happens just 2 plays in a game when the other team is on offense  if they ran 50 plays that means 4% of the possible plays on offense were slides to the favored team .. that is significant 

[kbarrettb]

1 hour ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

If you can't see a Pats bias at least then you are a %#$@!/& Moron...

Whenever a team is having its way on O or D on them then out comes a flag for some phantom call and you get labeled a conspiracy nut. Why does it happen every game if not every drive with them?

 

You didn't see the refs trying to keep the Girls in the game last night??

Even Romo was like nah I'm not seeing none of this nonsense....

 

Opposite also applies... why is Hughes getting curb stomped every play by the entire O-line of every team on every play NEVER called since he spoke his mind to that b!+(# @$$ ref? 

 

Why is Josh Allen getting his head smashed in with his own helmet and having tag team wrestling finishers performed after every play not called but Brady gets his pocket collapsed and it's an automatic 15 yards?

You’re dumb. What possible reason could

they have to have a Patriots bias. They aren’t a massive media market. If they’d want big name teams to do well then why do the Jets And Giants suck so bad. Why have the Cowboys not won a championship since the 90s. Why is Kansas City in the lead of the AFC West when you have the number 2 media market Chargers from LA sucking. Why’d they let the Rams lose to the Patriots last year.  It could possibly be because you know the Patriots have the best coach and best quarterback of all time. Refs screw up just like regular people do at their jobs. But it’s not some damn conspiracy. The Patriots were dog ***** till the last 20 years. I wonder why maybe it ya something to do with the players and the coach. Not some government nfl conspiracy. Get off the bottle and get into reality. 

But you’re right so much conspiracy. That’s why the Dodgers and the Yankees met in the World Series this year and not the Astros and Nationals. Give me a break. 

[SinceThe70s]

54 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

If I ever convinced myself it was widespread, I'd stop watching football.  It's why I stopped watching boxing.  And I LOVED boxing.  I hope it never gets to that point.

 

Strong call. Boxing was must see TV for me - up until it became blatantly obvious it was fixed.

 

The fact that we have an ex-ref as part of every broadcast team is a sad indictment of the current state.

 

I think the biggest problem with NFL officiating is inconsistency. Which could be either incompetence or the 'fix is in'.

 

Either way, it's made the sport tougher to watch.

 

------

 

But games like yesterday and 9-3 starts make NFL officiating much more palatable!

 

Go Bills!

 

[Gugny]

7 minutes ago, kbarrettb said:

You’re dumb. What possible reason could

they have to have a Patriots bias. They aren’t a massive media market. If they’d want big name teams to do well then why do the Jets And Giants suck so bad. Why have the Cowboys not won a championship since the 90s. Why is Kansas City in the lead of the AFC West when you have the number 2 media market Chargers from LA sucking. Why’d they let the Rams lose to the Patriots last year.  It could possibly be because you know the Patriots have the best coach and best quarterback of all time. Refs screw up just like regular people do at their jobs. But it’s not some damn conspiracy. The Patriots were dog ***** till the last 20 years. I wonder why maybe it ya something to do with the players and the coach. Not some government nfl conspiracy. Get off the bottle and get into reality. 

But you’re right so much conspiracy. That’s why the Dodgers and the Yankees met in the World Series this year and not the Astros and Nationals. Give me a break. 

 

Calling someone dumb isn't nice.

 

And the rest of your post makes no sense.  You think Boston isn't a massive media market?  How about number 9 out of 210.

[HappyDays]

I can't remember the last time the refs called a hold against the tackle blocking Hughes. They have something against him.

[cba fan]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I can't remember the last time the refs called a hold against the tackle blocking Hughes. They have something against him.

Dak made along throw yesterday with Huges barreling in off the right edge right into the camera on Dak with the tackle clearly having straight arm all over his neck holding him.

 

not one mention of it by anyone.

[kbarrettb]

10 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Calling someone dumb isn't nice.

 

And the rest of your post makes no sense.  You think Boston isn't a massive media market?  How about number 9 out of 210.

Cool so they’re 9 and why have the jets been a dumpster fire in a bigger market. Why has Dallas not been good in 3 decades. LA has two teams yet they’re not in the playoff race. Dumb dumb dumb. Fanatics with their idiotic takes. Because something bad happened in a game with human officials. Stop blaming refs. The bills are 9-3 is it because the refs were paid or is it cause they’re good. Get over yourself. 

[Southern Bills Fan]

I have to agree that the “glory” teams (patriots,cowboys) get the benefit of every call and non call. 

[ctk232]

Not trying to claim conspiracy, fixing, or the like - but you have to admit something is wrong with the “they just warned us” line. I get if they missed it in real time (giving them all the benefit of the doubt there) and realized later they should’ve called it, but to me this falls right in line with what was said to Newton. Again, not conspiratorial, but it raises some flags that they didn’t throw theirs on that play...

 

 

[NewEra]

Anyone who thinks that games are officiated 100% by what the refs see or don’t see are extremely naive 

[NickelCity]

I don't think the fix is in but I'll sure as hell complain when the calls are repeatedly one sided. The latter can be true while the former is false. 

 

Officiating in the Dallas game was beyond the pale. 

[DC Tom]

When they tell Cam Newton to his face that he's not going to get the same calls Brady gets, it's not a conspiracy.  It's a fact.

[TuelTime]

Watch The Last Boy Scout. The whole movie was about Jerry Jones paying off the senators to allow for legalized gambling... He may have been crying after the game but I bet it was tears of joy because he won a bunch of money betting against his own team.

Edited November 30, 2019 by TuelTime

[BuffaloBillies]

Not officially fixed, but I think the refs are influenced by the league and/or teams to "look out for this or that" and then become over-officious jerks.

Edited November 30, 2019 by BuffaloBillies

[Sherlock Holmes]

1 hour ago, kbarrettb said:

You’re dumb. What possible reason could

they have to have a Patriots bias. They aren’t a massive media market. If they’d want big name teams to do well then why do the Jets And Giants suck so bad. Why have the Cowboys not won a championship since the 90s. Why is Kansas City in the lead of the AFC West when you have the number 2 media market Chargers from LA sucking. Why’d they let the Rams lose to the Patriots last year.  It could possibly be because you know the Patriots have the best coach and best quarterback of all time. Refs screw up just like regular people do at their jobs. But it’s not some damn conspiracy. The Patriots were dog ***** till the last 20 years. I wonder why maybe it ya something to do with the players and the coach. Not some government nfl conspiracy. Get off the bottle and get into reality. 

But you’re right so much conspiracy. That’s why the Dodgers and the Yankees met in the World Series this year and not the Astros and Nationals. Give me a break. 

I didn't say there was a conspiracy Mr. Kraft....just that you and Tom Brady suck the refs off

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 hours ago, buffalo2218 said:

In yesterday's game, I wondered how many times a bad call would negate a positive play for the Bills. I can't remember the play exactly, but it went for positive yards and Nance said there was a flag, and immediately I couldn't help but think really? Turns out there wasn't one. If winning teams get calls in their favor, then maybe the Bills are due for some here soon. Given the upcoming tough schedule, it'd sure be the right time for it

How about the PI call on the throw to Knox?

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Take a look at the Patriots’ record against the spread since 2003. It’s so far beyond the standard deviation as to be ridiculous.

 

The NFL generates about $15B in revenue. The sports betting industry in the US has a $75B market cap. You can literally beat Vegas by betting Patriots to cover every game since 2003.

Why woudl Vegas make it easier to win?  They don't want to make it easier to win a bet.  Not sure what your point is?

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

How about the PI call on the throw to Knox?

Why woudl Vegas make it easier to win?  They don't want to make it easier to win a bet.  Not sure what your point is?

Vegas wants the juice, it’s the sharps making the market. They’re the ones who stand to gain. The books don’t have incentive, they make their money regardless.

[Prickly Pete]

I don't think they are fixing games, but I think they are "shaping" games.

Teams like the Cowboys and Patriots get some shaping, in my opinion, but I think it's more like "hey guys, look for headhunting on Tom Brady. We want to discourage that" than "try to give the Patriots a lot of crucial calls".

[kbarrettb]

32 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

I didn't say there was a conspiracy Mr. Kraft....just that you and Tom Brady suck the refs off

Yes I’m Mr Kraft. I can’t stand the Patriots. I’ve been a Bills fan in California since I was 8. But this nonsensical conspiracy theory the refs are rigging it has got to stop. There is no conspiracy. There is no Buffalo is a small market so let’s treat them ***** stuff going on. Green Bay’s in the middle of no where Wisconsin and they get play everywhere. If the Bills weren’t a laughing stock for 18 years they’d get more play simple as that. Kansas City is in no where town and Maholmes is talked about as the second coming. If your talented the media will find you. Mike Trout plays in Anaheim and he’s won 3 MVPs. If the Angels were better he’d have even more but they’ve sucked since he’s been there. Be better. The Bills are better now. Hopefully it continues. Stop having a baby mentality and stop blaming it on the refs. Let’s go Bills end of rant. 

[Dan]

There are entire too many blatantly wrong calls made every week.  Either the refs are being told to or allowed to influence games OR the league is completely inept and unable to solve the problem.   But you cannot repeatedly make absolutely wrong calls like tripping when it clearly was not happening without some sort of intent.  

[buffalo2218]

46 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

How about the PI call on the throw to Knox?

What about it? That call was legit, unlike the illegal hands to the face that wiped out a pick, then the ticky tack call against Hughes. Did we get any calls like that at all?

[Utah John]

I want to think the refs make mistakes, and we tend to notice those that go against us the most. 

 

But then I see Jerry Hughes trying to rush Prescott while a Dallas O linesman has his arm around Hughes, right out in the open.  I see a phantom hands to the face penalty wiping out a good play for the Bills.  I just don't see so many calls going in favor of the Bills.

[Capco]

If you want to go really off the deep end... the Patriots weren't good until after 9/11, when patriotism surged. 

 

What better team to win the Superbowl that year than the underdog "Patriots", eh?

[LABILLBACKER]

If you don't think certain games aren't "navigated" in a certain direction then your just plain naive.

[Vod Kanockers]

2 hours ago, NickelCity said:

I don't think the fix is in but I'll sure as hell complain when the calls are repeatedly one sided. The latter can be true while the former is false. 

 

Officiating in the Dallas game was beyond the pale. 

Yet everybody knew that the officiating was going to suck towards Buffalo, leading up to the game, because Dallas got jobbed the week before to NE*.. Interesting how some were able to see it coming

[Vod Kanockers]

1 hour ago, kbarrettb said:

Yes I’m Mr Kraft. I can’t stand the Patriots. I’ve been a Bills fan in California since I was 8. But this nonsensical conspiracy theory the refs are rigging it has got to stop. There is no conspiracy. There is no Buffalo is a small market so let’s treat them ***** stuff going on. Green Bay’s in the middle of no where Wisconsin and they get play everywhere. If the Bills weren’t a laughing stock for 18 years they’d get more play simple as that. Kansas City is in no where town and Maholmes is talked about as the second coming. If your talented the media will find you. Mike Trout plays in Anaheim and he’s won 3 MVPs. If the Angels were better he’d have even more but they’ve sucked since he’s been there. Be better. The Bills are better now. Hopefully it continues. Stop having a baby mentality and stop blaming it on the refs. Let’s go Bills end of rant. 

It’s not so much the market, but the marketability. Green Bay has AR. The league will continually protect its superstars and faces of the league due to marketability. Should JA ever reach that point in the league, you will start to see calls go in his favor more often. 

[mykidsdad]

I think there are various biases that come out from certain referees. I think it is undeniable; and, although, it is unlikely that a widespread conspiracy exists, these spirits of bias sometimes produce results that might appear consistent with a conspiracy. If any conspiracy actually does exist it would probably be because league forces might imply a desire for certain results. For example, an official may be less likely to call a penalty on a star player or may feel there is pressure to keep a game moving by letting things go uncalled at the end of game. These biases can end up being strung together to help or hurt teams that may have fewer stars or need fair calls in crucial moments. Bottom line, whether intended or not, referees are human and the bad calls tend not to balance out, because biases that favor some over others do exist. Tim Donaghy of the NBA seems to be an interesting case study. While everything he has said on this point needs to be taken with a grain of salt, I think some bias to benefit the league as a whole is pervasive in every professional league. While long term strategy should mean refs putting the integrity of the league first by making fair calls, I speculate that benefit to the league through short term, tactical, officiating that benefits a certain team or player happens in the NFL. This kind of bias may be followed by a slew of other biases like a belief that certain players and teams are good or bad, likeable or unlikable, etc. As an example of plain old biases that are largely innocent on the face, on Thursday Josh Allen was not protected by the refs when he slid but Dak was protected when he did not slide. Why? Perhaps because of the bias the refs have regarding an unknown player compared to a star. These decisions are made in an instant, and I think it is impossible for them to be made in a vacuum, so influences of all kinds sometimes produce unfair officiating.

 

I also would not be surprised if from time to time gambling played a role in how games are called.

 

If this makes me a conspiracy guy, so be it. 

[Jasovon]

Officials favor big teams and marquee quarterbacks. No conspiracy just obvious bias. 

[Buddo]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I can't remember the last time the refs called a hold against the tackle blocking Hughes. They have something against him.

 

Very much this. I don't think they 'liked' him much before, as he has always had some 'attitude', but since the incident in the tunnel with a zebra, Hughes as got just about nothing given in his favour, and flagged whenever possible, for the merest hint of having done something wrong.

 

Now, in sports generally, if you piss off officials, there is some payback, but it's usually pretty much within the same game. Mouth off, you get some ticky tacky call go against you, or a non call made. That usually is the end of it, and the player and official both know what's happened, and there's no drama after the game.

 

Hughes' situation seems different, as it appears he pretty much has become a 'persona non grata' as far as the zebras are concerned, after the tunnel incident. To me, this is unacceptable, especially as it was the zebra who was in the wrong in the tunnel incident, yet it doesn't seem as though anyone is saying anything about this to the league.

 

Overall, I'm of the opinion that the officiating is generally poor. Some of the older refs have gone, and a few of them were awful, but I think it will take some time for the newer guys to gain a level of experience, so we will still see crap decisions on a regular basis for a while.

 

Officials should be full time, and paid accordingly. There is plenty of other football being played that they could be being used at, outside of the NFL season, and getting them involved in that, might help with getting rules understood better.

 

Something else I've thought for a while, is that they need to re-write the rulebook, in plain language. And then stick to it, without trying to have specific interpretations welded on top. I'm sure some of the poor officiating is as a result of a rulebook that must read more like an insurance policy than a set of rules for playing a game. While the playing committee of the NFL may be well served by their members in trying to resolve issues within the game, they almost certainly aren't the best people to write any new rules.

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Agreed that better teams traditionally seem to get the benefit of the doubt.   One of the things not discussed often with officiating is the reality that refs are anticipating how plays are going to go down before they even happen.   Doing so helps slow the game down and hone in on details.   Anticipating can lead to bias....particularly in favor of the perceived better team.  Anticipating the outcome can even cause outright confusion........which IMO was the case when NRC committed that egregious PI in the NFC Championship and the official got an eyeful of what didn't look anything like anyone imagined would happen.

 

This is exactly what happens. The fashionable teams are favoured - so it is in every sports league anywhere in the word - but it is unconscious bias from refs who are human and perceive that the fashionable team will make plays rather than a conspiracy. It is not "I better throw this flag, because, Jerry Jones." 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I think it's more incompetence than conspiracy. 

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, Vod Kanockers said:

Yet everybody knew that the officiating was going to suck towards Buffalo, leading up to the game, because Dallas got jobbed the week before to NE*.. Interesting how some were able to see it coming

Why'd they call defensive pass interference on two long throws by us then?  

 

Refs are human beings and therefore are susceptible to being "worked" by a coach, make up calls, and giving better players/teams (especially at home) the benefit of the doubt on close plays.  There's a reason Michael Jordan got all the calls as he excelled in working the refs and being the best there ever was.  It's no different in football.  The officiating crews now are pry better than they were 20 years ago but now you have all these new player safety rules along with technology that allow us to pinpoint their mistakes in slow motion.

[Aireskoi]

It doesn't really matter what we believe.

 

The NFL is not a sport, it's entertainment.  They stated that in court.

 

It's not 32 teams, it's 1 business.  They are completely in their rights to "fix" outcomes, no different than wrestling.

 

Do they?  I don't know but damn there are some strange coincidences when you look at it closely.

 

 

To me it says something that the NFL will not get directly involved in gambling (although the ties can't be denied).

 

They focus our attention on the player performance side when it comes to that. 

 

Tons of money exchanged in FF and they don't run from that like gambling on outcomes.

 

 

[dubs]

Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if there was something going on. No idea if it’s true, but I’ve seen way too many calls at critical times benefit through Pats over the years. 
 

cowboys tripping

eagles fumble that’s stopped and can’t be reviewed

chiefs AFC champ, call Offside not illegal formation to keep pats drive alive. 
 

that’s just less that one season worth of games

[Aireskoi]

Just now, dubs said:

Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if there was something going on. No idea if it’s true, but I’ve seen way too many calls at critical times benefit through Pats over the years. 
 

cowboys tripping

eagles fumble that’s stopped and can’t be reviewed

chiefs AFC champ, call Offside not illegal formation to keep pats drive alive. 
 

that’s just less that one season worth of games

 

Of course the refs would have the opportunity to make or not make calls as they are directed. 

 

There is a formula as far as what a penalty does to the odds of scoring on any given drive...

 

There is also a mic in their ears from NY to be sure they get things "right".

 

I guess we could wait for an official to slip up in an interview...oops, they aren't allowed to do those.?

 

 

 

 

[r00tabaga]

I believe that if there was no gambling on sports officiating would be much more fair.

The fix is as old as time.

 

[Lfod]

No way Tom Brady gets the success he has without selling his soul to the devil. 

Edited November 30, 2019 by Lfod

[HOUSE]

I have seen some strange ***** over the years that reek of fixed officiating.

 

My best example is a game between Buffalo and Miami. Mercury Morris fumbles the ball and Pat Tommay of the Bills  recovers the football which would have sealed the game for Buffalo. A Ref throws a flag for ruffing the official ( extremely rare call) as two teams scramble for the ball, replays prove NO player even touched an official.  BILLS LOSE

 

30

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by HOUSE

[TC in St. Louis]

1 minute ago, HOUSE said:

I have seen some strange ***** over the years that reek of fixed officiating.

 

My best example is a game between Buffalo and Miami. Mercury Morris fumbles the ball and Pat Tommay of the Bills  recovers the football which would have sealed the game for Buffalo. A Ref throws a flag for ruffing the official as two teams scramble for the ball, replays prove NO player even touched an official.  BILLS LOSE

 

30

 

 

 

 

 

 

I threw my shoe and put a hole in the wall.  
 

Morris fumbled the ball while he was in the air.  We recovered.  Ruled no fumble.  15 on Toomay for bumping the ref.  Nottingham up the middle for 50 on the next play.  
 

jerry Bergman was the ref.  Ralph said he would never work another Bills game.  He was fined, but Bergman never worked another Bills game.  

[billsfan1959]

Can a referee be corrupt at an individual level? Of course. Can a conspiracy exist at a macro level? Practically speaking, it is highly unlikely.

 

I think when you ask human beings, with all their biases and other imperfections, to make split second decisions in moments when things are moving very quickly and within environments that are emotionally charged - you are always going to run the risk of those biases or other imperfections affecting the process, consciously or subconsciously.

 

And, sometimes, people are just not very good at what they do...