Roll call for officiating conspiracy believers

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I'm the first to admit when I'm wrong and that I drone on about a few topics - turnovers, replay challenges for all plays, and how bad Murphy is come to mind.  

 

I would like folks on this board to admit if they really believe the officiating of games is fixed or even influenced by certain owners and teams.  Complaints about the officiating is one of the most annoying things about this board and in particular the in-game thread. 

My hunch is most of it is just frustration but I'm also a bit scared to see how many people actually think the fix is in.

 

I think better teams and better players will get the benefit of the doubt a few times a game. But I also think that is no different in any sport. I also think the officials make amazing spots and calls in full speed real time the vast majority of the time. They also miss things, but not to the benefit or detriment to any specific teams. 

[fansince88]

I just think they do a crappy job at times. At other times we have crappy opinions. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I'm the first to admit when I'm wrong and that I drone on about a few topics - turnovers, replay challenges for all plays, and how bad Murphy is come to mind.  

 

I would like folks on this board to admit if they really believe the officiating of games is fixed or even influenced by certain owners and teams.  Complaints about the officiating is one of the most annoying things about this board and in particular the in-game thread. 

My hunch is most of it is just frustration but I'm also a bit scared to see how many people actually think the fix is in.

 

I think better teams and better players will get the benefit of the doubt a few times a game. But I also think that is no different in any sport. I also think the officials make amazing spots and calls in full speed real time the vast majority of the time. They also miss things, but not to the benefit or detriment to any specific teams. 

 

Agreed that better teams traditionally seem to get the benefit of the doubt.   One of the things not discussed often with officiating is the reality that refs are anticipating how plays are going to go down before they even happen.   Doing so helps slow the game down and hone in on details.   Anticipating can lead to bias....particularly in favor of the perceived better team.  Anticipating the outcome can even cause outright confusion........which IMO was the case when NRC committed that egregious PI in the NFC Championship and the official got an eyeful of what didn't look anything like anyone imagined would happen.

[Sherlock Holmes]

If you can't see a Pats bias at least then you are a %#$@!/& Moron...

Whenever a team is having its way on O or D on them then out comes a flag for some phantom call and you get labeled a conspiracy nut. Why does it happen every game if not every drive with them?

 

You didn't see the refs trying to keep the Girls in the game last night??

Even Romo was like nah I'm not seeing none of this nonsense....

 

Opposite also applies... why is Hughes getting curb stomped every play by the entire O-line of every team on every play NEVER called since he spoke his mind to that b!+(# @$$ ref? 

 

Why is Josh Allen getting his head smashed in with his own helmet and having tag team wrestling finishers performed after every play not called but Brady gets his pocket collapsed and it's an automatic 15 yards?

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

Calls still favored Dallas yesterday, Buffalo was just the far superior team.

[Happy]

I doubt it is fixed or influenced by certain teams or owners, as much as we like to pile on about Bob Kraft's checks clearing.  This topic was mentioned a while back, where a poster(s) commented that the calls NE and Brady gets is similar to what the Bulls and Michael Jordan got back in the day.  Jordan would travel and it would never get called.  I just suspect that the NFL thinks that the Patriots and Tom Brady are good for the game, so they get favorable calls.  

 

It would also help if the game wasn't so technical, where every play could have a foul called.  Let these guys play football more and officiate less.  Games should not be decided by officials.  Do away with that and many of the conspiracy theories go away.

[BuffaloRebound]

I don’t know about a conspiracy but the same ref who flagged that soft late hit on Dak, also over-ruled the ref s few plays later on that horrible TD catch that was over-ruled.  That ref needs to be demoted.  That was a horrible sequence of calls that makes you question if the guy had money on the game.  Those calls were that bad.  

[WideNine]

Jerry Hughes never gets held.

 

Perhaps not conspiracy, but there is no doubt in regards to systemic, organizational officiating bias.

 

 

[BillsFanNC]

I dont think there is a grand conspiracy to screw Buffalo. I do think there is a natural human tendency to find calls against historically irrelevant teams like the Bills and to give the benefit of the doubt to the marquee franchises.  

[buffalo2218]

In yesterday's game, I wondered how many times a bad call would negate a positive play for the Bills. I can't remember the play exactly, but it went for positive yards and Nance said there was a flag, and immediately I couldn't help but think really? Turns out there wasn't one. If winning teams get calls in their favor, then maybe the Bills are due for some here soon. Given the upcoming tough schedule, it'd sure be the right time for it

[oldmanfan]

Do I believe it’s fixed?  No.  But some of the calls in the first half yesterday made me wonder more than usual.

[Just Joshin']

I do not think games are fixed by the league or there is a general conspiracy for/against a specific team.

 

I think three things could occur:

1.  Subconcious bias against a team.

2.  Refs protecting themselves or other refs to provide cover/make points to certain players/teams.

3.  As with a NBA ref several years ago, fixing by a single ref to make money.  It was shown calls do not need to be obvious, just reasonably close.

 

I.suspect every fan things their team is the result of bad officiating.  It would be an interesting study to see if they do average out.

[Gugny]

Each season, I get closer and closer to realizing that there are some officials who are on the take.

 

If anything, I think there may be a few individual refs making/missing calls to fatten their wallets.  I do not think it's a widespread conspiracy.

 

I do, however, think that the BS last week with Sean Payton was retaliatory.  That is very bad.

 

The phantom tripping calls against Dallas last week really had me believing there was a payoff.

 

If I ever convinced myself it was widespread, I'd stop watching football.  It's why I stopped watching boxing.  And I LOVED boxing.  I hope it never gets to that point.

[Max Fischer]

Good topic, now I know who to ignore. 

[Coach Tuesday]

It’s subconscious bias not intentional bias.

 

I think.

[jimmy10]

Officials have gotten “worked” on the field since the dawn of organized sports, not to change any calls they’ve made in the past, just to influence calls they may make in the future. Is it so crazy to think they may get “worked” off the field as well?

[Orlando Tim]

If anyone knows how officials are graded I would be interested because it would probably show that once an official gets to the NFL they can be lazy and stay there being paid well.

[TSOL]

I think the big market, sweetheart teams definitely get calls favored towards them, over the little market ugly duckling teams as we saw numerous times on Thursday. There was most definite bias in the calls in that game, it's just that the Bills were the much better team that day. 

[Rc2catch]

Every fan base even the patriots deal with the same bad calls we do. 
the games are not fixed, the refs may sway momentum at times with bad calls but I don’t think there’s any real conspiracy to it. 
Im sure the NFL would prefer certain teams to shine, but were talking about a multi billion dollar business who is in front of 100’s of millions of eyes LIVE multiple times a week. 
There is ZERO chance the officials or league is really tampering. The risk is too high, and there’s no way this kind of stuff goes on and NOBODY ever comes forward or tells stories or sells their story to TMZ on their deathbed or nothing. It makes us all look bad as fans when people are crying on social media about refs sabotaging their team. 
Yesterday was a prime example. Cowboys got all the calls, yet buffalo stomped them. 
Good teams overcome bad officiating and find a way to win games. ALL teams get bad calls every week 

 

[klos63]

24 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

If you can't see a Pats bias at least then you are a %#$@!/& Moron...

Whenever a team is having its way on O or D on them then out comes a flag for some phantom call and you get labeled a conspiracy nut. Why does it happen every game if not every drive with them?

 

You didn't see the refs trying to keep the Girls in the game last night??

Even Romo was like nah I'm not seeing none of this nonsense....

 

Opposite also applies... why is Hughes getting curb stomped every play by the entire O-line of every team on every play NEVER called since he spoke his mind to that b!+(# @$$ ref? 

 

Why is Josh Allen getting his head smashed in with his own helmet and having tag team wrestling finishers performed after every play not called but Brady gets his pocket collapsed and it's an automatic 15 yards?

When you make statements like that, it's hard to see how you maintain any credibility. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Just now, klos63 said:

When you make statements like that, it's hard to see how you maintain any credibility. 

I'm being facetious??? I'm trying to drill home the point of how blatently obvious it is.

[klos63]

15 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Each season, I get closer and closer to realizing that there are some officials who are on the take.

 

If anything, I think there may be a few individual refs making/missing calls to fatten their wallets.  I do not think it's a widespread conspiracy.

 

I do, however, think that the BS last week with Sean Payton was retaliatory.  That is very bad.

 

The phantom tripping calls against Dallas last week really had me believing there was a payoff.

 

If I ever convinced myself it was widespread, I'd stop watching football.  It's why I stopped watching boxing.  And I LOVED boxing.  I hope it never gets to that point.

I don't think the refs are on the take, but it's not unreasonable to think that. This is a multi billion dollar industry. This is exactly the type of activity open for fixing. I just think refs are human and there are a number of reasons they make mistakes, some honest, some because of poor judgement, some because they're bad officials. I think if they have something in their heads from a previous game, that probably impacts them as well.

[LeGOATski]

There is so much money riding on NFL games, that I think it's naive to think there is not an agenda, just short of an all-out fix. They've done their best to keep the rules as vague as possible and have invested very little money into a full time, well-trained crew.

 

I think the PI replays in a way have shed a spotlight on it this year. Blatant PI or non-PI will not be overturned even when it's staring them right in the face. That's just a symptom of the corruption and politics.

[klos63]

1 minute ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

I'm being facetious??? I'm trying to drill home the point of how blatently obvious it is.

Citing actual examples would probably drill the point home a lot better.

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

26 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I'm the first to admit when I'm wrong and that I drone on about a few topics - turnovers, replay challenges for all plays, and how bad Murphy is come to mind.  

 

I would like folks on this board to admit if they really believe the officiating of games is fixed or even influenced by certain owners and teams.  Complaints about the officiating is one of the most annoying things about this board and in particular the in-game thread. 

My hunch is most of it is just frustration but I'm also a bit scared to see how many people actually think the fix is in.

 

I think better teams and better players will get the benefit of the doubt a few times a game. But I also think that is no different in any sport. I also think the officials make amazing spots and calls in full speed real time the vast majority of the time. They also miss things, but not to the benefit or detriment to any specific teams. 

I agree with you. I also think that there is tremendous variation between officiating crews.  Some call certain types of fouls very tightly and some let the guys play.  This creates uncertainty among the players and often causes a rash of penalties.  I also believe that there is significant variation in talent between officiating crews.  If you watch a lot of games, you begin to associate certain crews with their approach and performance in officiating a game.  Some officials are just plain terrible and I don't think that it always has anything to do with who the teams or players are.  As to questions about the fix ever being in, I don't have any knowledge or data to support my beliefs.  I don't think it is impossible that some level of fixing games could exist.  With so much sports gambling going on, the temptation for players and officials must be significant.

[klos63]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

There is so much money riding on NFL games, that I think it's naive to think there is not an agenda, just short of an all-out fix. They've done their best to keep the rules as vague as possible and have invested very little money into a full time, well-trained crew.

 

I think the PI replays in a way have shed a spotlight on it this year. Blatant PI or non-PI will not be overturned even when it's staring them right in the face. That's just a symptom of the corruption and politics.

I think the PI rule was a knee jerk reaction to last years Saints game. It's a judgement call and judgement calls aren't real good candidates for review. Did the ball cross the line is a pretty black and white call, contact downfield will get you different calls from different people.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Come sit with me during a game... I'm like Tony Romo calling every penalty the refs are going to make up before they happen... Why can I know what teams are getting what calls? Am I just that good or is it just that obvious?

3 minutes ago, klos63 said:

Citing actual examples would probably drill the point home a lot better.

Jerry Hughes clapping his teammate on the helmet 5 yards from Brady and it getting flagged is a classic...

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

There is so much money riding on NFL games, that I think it's naive to think there is not an agenda, just short of an all-out fix. They've done their best to keep the rules as vague as possible and have invested very little money into a full time, well-trained crew.

 

I think the PI replays in a way have shed a spotlight on it this year. Blatant PI or non-PI will not be overturned even when it's staring them right in the face. That's just a symptom of the corruption and politics.

This. If you think the guys in charge of a multi-billion dollar industry don’t have at least a little influence on decisions influencing profits...

[The Wiz]

The most obvious things that come to mind are:

"just give it to them" for the pats and "old enough to get that call" to Newton. 

 

Fixed, no. Favoritism, for sure. 

 

I'll definitely say there is financial influence somehow. 

 

The Bills game was 41.5 for the over and there was a missed Pat and two missed fgs to make it 41.

Edited November 30, 2019 by The Wiz

[klos63]

5 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Come sit with me during a game... I'm like Tony Romo calling every penalty the refs are going to make up before they happen... Why can I know what teams are getting what calls? Am I just that good or is it just that obvious?

Jerry Hughes clapping his teammate on the helmet 5 yards from Brady and it getting flagged is a classic...

That was a crappy call, not a conspiracy.

[John from Riverside]

I dont know that it is a conspiracy.....I think they just did a horrible job in the Dallas game especially early

[Freddie's Dead]

When Riveron unilaterally overruled the TD call for KB against the Cheats, I knew right then and there that the NFL was fixed.

[peterpan]

The league rigs games 100%.  Watch a NE game and you cannot claim otherwise. 

21 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

The most obvious things that come to mind are:

"just give it to them" for the pats and "old enough to get that call" to Newton. 

 

Fixed, no. Favoritism, for sure. 

 

I'll definitely say there is financial influence somehow. 

 

The Bills game was 41.5 for the over and there was a missed Pat and two missed fgs to make it 41.

Isn't that the exact-same-thing???

 

Then you admit there is a financial influence.  Duh.  It's fixed.  Certain teams are supposed to win and the refs can make that happen. 

 

16 games a week I'd say maybe 2-3 are out of the refs hands.  The other 13-14, winners are determined by the zebras more than the teams. 

 

There's probably a dozen Bills/Pats games over the last 20 years that the Bills woulda won had 2-3 HORRIBLE calls gone the CORRECT way rather than the Pats way.  That's only the 2-3 worst calls, not the 5-10 others that were bad too.  A couple as far back as 2005 come to mind.  And a couple when Doug Marrone was coach.  We easily woulda won those games, the Refs beat us, not the Pats***

Edited November 30, 2019 by peterpan

[Charles Romes]

A few more performances like that we will benefit from the call bias

[LeGOATski]

18 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I think the PI rule was a knee jerk reaction to last years Saints game. It's a judgement call and judgement calls aren't real good candidates for review. Did the ball cross the line is a pretty black and white call, contact downfield will get you different calls from different people.

The Saints game was the tipping point, not the start of it.

 

I haven't seen any explanations of how the PI reviews are conducted, but I assume they watch them in real time to see if there was a black and white violation of the rule. To determine if it was blatantly missed in real time, they'll watch it again in real time. Even with that assumption, the amount of incorrect calls we've seen upheld this year is staggering. 

 

I think it's a good way to weed out those officials who might be fixing or just really bad at their job. It's another way to identify trends.

It will raise a red flag if the PI rule itself is not adjusted in some way after they've done a review of the year's challenges.

[Buffalo Boy]

   As a guy who’s reffed Karate events and had students compete for decades  I can tell you Refs are human and have favorites.

   You are hiding your head in the sand if you think Refs don’t favor some and punish others. 
   Now, is there a “ Conspiracy “ ? Probably not but it’s hard to watch JA get hit by two players while sliding and not get flagged while we touch DP’s collar and they get 15 yards????? Du Fudge is that???

    Cam Newton had to call the Refs out as they watched him getting helmet to helmet speared and he still couldn’t get a flag.

    One thing I think the whole board can agree on is the reffing SUCKS in general.

[The Wiz]

6 minutes ago, peterpan said:

The league rigs games 100%.  Watch a NE game and you cannot claim otherwise. 

Isn't that the exact-same-thing???

 

Then you admit there is a financial influence.  Duh.  It's fixed.  Certain teams are supposed to win and the refs can make that happen. 

 

16 games a week I'd say maybe 2-3 are out of the refs hands.  The other 13-14, winners are determined by the zebras more than the teams. 

Fixed and favoritism are not the same. 

 

Giving a team a call because you are buddy buddy with a player is favoritism. 

 

Calling a game in favor of one team because you are getting paid off is fixed. 

 

 

And the money part is just a black hole. Any person can give anyone money without any trace nowadays. I don't think it's coming from anyone within the league from the player to the owner but someone is for sure paying.  Not as often as you seem to think with the games being determined by the refs 13/16 of the time. 

[Gugny]

35 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I don't think the refs are on the take, but it's not unreasonable to think that. This is a multi billion dollar industry. This is exactly the type of activity open for fixing. I just think refs are human and there are a number of reasons they make mistakes, some honest, some because of poor judgement, some because they're bad officials. I think if they have something in their heads from a previous game, that probably impacts them as well.

 

One thing I left out (which you reminded me of, thank you) is that yes ... they are human.  I love the human element of sports (mostly baseball and football).  Football is a very fast game.  I don't expect refs to get all the calls right.  I expect them to miss a lot and I expect them to get a lot (across 16 games) wrong.

 

It's the egregious misses or miscalls that bother me.  If I can sit on my couch and see a blatant late hit or pass interference, and there's an official standing right there looking at it, then I expect the flag to be thrown.

 

If something has to be reviewed in super duper bionic HD slow motion sixty five times and there's still a question?  I don't hold that against them - which is why I think replays should be done at real speed and not in slow motion - but that's another conversation.

 

Josh Allen isn't the only QB who's been hit WAY late and no flag thrown.  It happens every week.  That is inexcusable to me.

 

When Josh got hit in the head vs. the Patriots earlier this season, they correctly threw the flag.  But then they convened for 5 minutes and decided there was some BS penalty against the BIlls that offset it.  It's crap like THAT, that makes me think some of these guys are on the take.

[GoBills808]

Take a look at the Patriots’ record against the spread since 2003. It’s so far beyond the standard deviation as to be ridiculous.

 

The NFL generates about $15B in revenue. The sports betting industry in the US has a $75B market cap. You can literally beat Vegas by betting Patriots to cover every game since 2003.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I am sure that the cowboys talked with the officials ahead of our game about illegal contact. thats what got us called for it.

 

but the reason they did that was that if you go back and look at the pats-cowboys game, Gilmore was absolutely mugging cooper. He is all hands on the receivers, just hand checking them all the way down field.