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Ethan in Portland

Roll call for officiating conspiracy believers

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46 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

How about the PI call on the throw to Knox?

What about it? That call was legit, unlike the illegal hands to the face that wiped out a pick, then the ticky tack call against Hughes. Did we get any calls like that at all?

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I want to think the refs make mistakes, and we tend to notice those that go against us the most. 

 

But then I see Jerry Hughes trying to rush Prescott while a Dallas O linesman has his arm around Hughes, right out in the open.  I see a phantom hands to the face penalty wiping out a good play for the Bills.  I just don't see so many calls going in favor of the Bills.

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If you want to go really off the deep end... the Patriots weren't good until after 9/11, when patriotism surged. 

 

What better team to win the Superbowl that year than the underdog "Patriots", eh?

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2 hours ago, NickelCity said:

I don't think the fix is in but I'll sure as hell complain when the calls are repeatedly one sided. The latter can be true while the former is false. 

 

Officiating in the Dallas game was beyond the pale. 

Yet everybody knew that the officiating was going to suck towards Buffalo, leading up to the game, because Dallas got jobbed the week before to NE*.. Interesting how some were able to see it coming

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1 hour ago, kbarrettb said:

Yes I’m Mr Kraft. I can’t stand the Patriots. I’ve been a Bills fan in California since I was 8. But this nonsensical conspiracy theory the refs are rigging it has got to stop. There is no conspiracy. There is no Buffalo is a small market so let’s treat them ***** stuff going on. Green Bay’s in the middle of no where Wisconsin and they get play everywhere. If the Bills weren’t a laughing stock for 18 years they’d get more play simple as that. Kansas City is in no where town and Maholmes is talked about as the second coming. If your talented the media will find you. Mike Trout plays in Anaheim and he’s won 3 MVPs. If the Angels were better he’d have even more but they’ve sucked since he’s been there. Be better. The Bills are better now. Hopefully it continues. Stop having a baby mentality and stop blaming it on the refs. Let’s go Bills end of rant. 

It’s not so much the market, but the marketability. Green Bay has AR. The league will continually protect its superstars and faces of the league due to marketability. Should JA ever reach that point in the league, you will start to see calls go in his favor more often. 

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I think there are various biases that come out from certain referees. I think it is undeniable; and, although, it is unlikely that a widespread conspiracy exists, these spirits of bias sometimes produce results that might appear consistent with a conspiracy. If any conspiracy actually does exist it would probably be because league forces might imply a desire for certain results. For example, an official may be less likely to call a penalty on a star player or may feel there is pressure to keep a game moving by letting things go uncalled at the end of game. These biases can end up being strung together to help or hurt teams that may have fewer stars or need fair calls in crucial moments. Bottom line, whether intended or not, referees are human and the bad calls tend not to balance out, because biases that favor some over others do exist. Tim Donaghy of the NBA seems to be an interesting case study. While everything he has said on this point needs to be taken with a grain of salt, I think some bias to benefit the league as a whole is pervasive in every professional league. While long term strategy should mean refs putting the integrity of the league first by making fair calls, I speculate that benefit to the league through short term, tactical, officiating that benefits a certain team or player happens in the NFL. This kind of bias may be followed by a slew of other biases like a belief that certain players and teams are good or bad, likeable or unlikable, etc. As an example of plain old biases that are largely innocent on the face, on Thursday Josh Allen was not protected by the refs when he slid but Dak was protected when he did not slide. Why? Perhaps because of the bias the refs have regarding an unknown player compared to a star. These decisions are made in an instant, and I think it is impossible for them to be made in a vacuum, so influences of all kinds sometimes produce unfair officiating.

 

I also would not be surprised if from time to time gambling played a role in how games are called.

 

If this makes me a conspiracy guy, so be it. 

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Officials favor big teams and marquee quarterbacks. No conspiracy just obvious bias. 

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3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I can't remember the last time the refs called a hold against the tackle blocking Hughes. They have something against him.

 

Very much this. I don't think they 'liked' him much before, as he has always had some 'attitude', but since the incident in the tunnel with a zebra, Hughes as got just about nothing given in his favour, and flagged whenever possible, for the merest hint of having done something wrong.

 

Now, in sports generally, if you piss off officials, there is some payback, but it's usually pretty much within the same game. Mouth off, you get some ticky tacky call go against you, or a non call made. That usually is the end of it, and the player and official both know what's happened, and there's no drama after the game.

 

Hughes' situation seems different, as it appears he pretty much has become a 'persona non grata' as far as the zebras are concerned, after the tunnel incident. To me, this is unacceptable, especially as it was the zebra who was in the wrong in the tunnel incident, yet it doesn't seem as though anyone is saying anything about this to the league.

 

Overall, I'm of the opinion that the officiating is generally poor. Some of the older refs have gone, and a few of them were awful, but I think it will take some time for the newer guys to gain a level of experience, so we will still see crap decisions on a regular basis for a while.

 

Officials should be full time, and paid accordingly. There is plenty of other football being played that they could be being used at, outside of the NFL season, and getting them involved in that, might help with getting rules understood better.

 

Something else I've thought for a while, is that they need to re-write the rulebook, in plain language. And then stick to it, without trying to have specific interpretations welded on top. I'm sure some of the poor officiating is as a result of a rulebook that must read more like an insurance policy than a set of rules for playing a game. While the playing committee of the NFL may be well served by their members in trying to resolve issues within the game, they almost certainly aren't the best people to write any new rules.

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6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Agreed that better teams traditionally seem to get the benefit of the doubt.   One of the things not discussed often with officiating is the reality that refs are anticipating how plays are going to go down before they even happen.   Doing so helps slow the game down and hone in on details.   Anticipating can lead to bias....particularly in favor of the perceived better team.  Anticipating the outcome can even cause outright confusion........which IMO was the case when NRC committed that egregious PI in the NFC Championship and the official got an eyeful of what didn't look anything like anyone imagined would happen.

 

This is exactly what happens. The fashionable teams are favoured - so it is in every sports league anywhere in the word - but it is unconscious bias from refs who are human and perceive that the fashionable team will make plays rather than a conspiracy. It is not "I better throw this flag, because, Jerry Jones." 

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2 hours ago, Vod Kanockers said:

Yet everybody knew that the officiating was going to suck towards Buffalo, leading up to the game, because Dallas got jobbed the week before to NE*.. Interesting how some were able to see it coming

Why'd they call defensive pass interference on two long throws by us then?  

 

Refs are human beings and therefore are susceptible to being "worked" by a coach, make up calls, and giving better players/teams (especially at home) the benefit of the doubt on close plays.  There's a reason Michael Jordan got all the calls as he excelled in working the refs and being the best there ever was.  It's no different in football.  The officiating crews now are pry better than they were 20 years ago but now you have all these new player safety rules along with technology that allow us to pinpoint their mistakes in slow motion.

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It doesn't really matter what we believe.

 

The NFL is not a sport, it's entertainment.  They stated that in court.

 

It's not 32 teams, it's 1 business.  They are completely in their rights to "fix" outcomes, no different than wrestling.

 

Do they?  I don't know but damn there are some strange coincidences when you look at it closely.

 

 

To me it says something that the NFL will not get directly involved in gambling (although the ties can't be denied).

 

They focus our attention on the player performance side when it comes to that. 

 

Tons of money exchanged in FF and they don't run from that like gambling on outcomes.

 

 

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Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if there was something going on. No idea if it’s true, but I’ve seen way too many calls at critical times benefit through Pats over the years. 
 

cowboys tripping

eagles fumble that’s stopped and can’t be reviewed

chiefs AFC champ, call Offside not illegal formation to keep pats drive alive. 
 

that’s just less that one season worth of games

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Just now, dubs said:

Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if there was something going on. No idea if it’s true, but I’ve seen way too many calls at critical times benefit through Pats over the years. 
 

cowboys tripping

eagles fumble that’s stopped and can’t be reviewed

chiefs AFC champ, call Offside not illegal formation to keep pats drive alive. 
 

that’s just less that one season worth of games

 

Of course the refs would have the opportunity to make or not make calls as they are directed. 

 

There is a formula as far as what a penalty does to the odds of scoring on any given drive...

 

There is also a mic in their ears from NY to be sure they get things "right".

 

I guess we could wait for an official to slip up in an interview...oops, they aren't allowed to do those.😉

 

 

 

 

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I believe that if there was no gambling on sports officiating would be much more fair.

The fix is as old as time.

 

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No way Tom Brady gets the success he has without selling his soul to the devil. 

Edited by Lfod

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I have seen some strange ***** over the years that reek of fixed officiating.

 

My best example is a game between Buffalo and Miami. Mercury Morris fumbles the ball and Pat Tommay of the Bills  recovers the football which would have sealed the game for Buffalo. A Ref throws a flag for ruffing the official ( extremely rare call) as two teams scramble for the ball, replays prove NO player even touched an official.  BILLS LOSE

 

Image result for pat toomay dallas cowboys30

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by HOUSE
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1 minute ago, HOUSE said:

I have seen some strange ***** over the years that reek of fixed officiating.

 

My best example is a game between Buffalo and Miami. Mercury Morris fumbles the ball and Pat Tommay of the Bills  recovers the football which would have sealed the game for Buffalo. A Ref throws a flag for ruffing the official as two teams scramble for the ball, replays prove NO player even touched an official.  BILLS LOSE

 

Image result for pat toomay dallas cowboys30

 

 

 

 

 

 


I threw my shoe and put a hole in the wall.  
 

Morris fumbled the ball while he was in the air.  We recovered.  Ruled no fumble.  15 on Toomay for bumping the ref.  Nottingham up the middle for 50 on the next play.  
 

jerry Bergman was the ref.  Ralph said he would never work another Bills game.  He was fined, but Bergman never worked another Bills game.  

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Can a referee be corrupt at an individual level? Of course. Can a conspiracy exist at a macro level? Practically speaking, it is highly unlikely.

 

I think when you ask human beings, with all their biases and other imperfections, to make split second decisions in moments when things are moving very quickly and within environments that are emotionally charged - you are always going to run the risk of those biases or other imperfections affecting the process, consciously or subconsciously.

 

And, sometimes, people are just not very good at what they do...

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