Daboll - Grade Him

[CaptnCoke11]

I’ll say B..

 

My only concern is I think he’s trying to force Allen into his system instead of designing plays around Allen’s strengths.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

meh +

 

I scratch my head sometimes saying WTF 

[billsfan1959]

B. He has had some head scratching  moments (Still trying to figure out that NE game plan); however, there have been some moments when he feels like an upper echelon OC as well. Overall, the offense is moving the ball and Allen, although he still has a long way to go, has come a long way from a year ago. I think consistency and execution in the opposition's 40 - 20 yard range will result in more points - but, I put that more on the players than Daboll.

[colin]

i put him at C, maybe C+.

 

To me he's a EP version of Roman.  ton's of formations, a bit overly complicated.  his scheme gets individual plays to execute for good gains, but he lacks a feel for the game or adjusting on the fly to the D.

 

with what Miami and NE did to us, just crowding the line of scrimmage and confusing the qb and protection, i think there are some things he needs to figure out to avoid free blitzers getting a hit, which they do way too much.

 

im usually not someone who thinks you call out a coach for playcalling, because you are limited to what you have practiced and are crisp at, but i do think dabo lacks a feel for the game at times.

 

all of the pre snap penalties make em think the team is under prepared for how complicated the O is (remember smoke said it is the most complicated O he's ever seen?  I think that's an issue for us)

[CincyBillsFan]

At minimum a solid B+.  When he gets more talent on the offensive side of the ball we can reevaluate.  But IMO you're not paying attention if you think Daboll has a lot to work with:

 

*  I'm a big Allen supporter and think he will be a top QB in this league.  But right now he is inconsistent and Daboll must create game plans that take into account Allen's rawness at this point in his career.

 

*  The O-line has been greatly improved but other then Morse at center is there another Bill's offensive lineman that you would rate as being in the top 1/3 of the NFL? 

 

*  Modern NFL offenses utilize multiple TE's for all sorts of stuff.  With Kroft's injury Daboll has only had ONE veteran TE and he's used mostly for blocking.  The two TE's that would normally be used in the passing game are raw rookies.  In fact one of them only caught FIVE passes his entire college career.   This is a HUGE handicap for Daboll.  With Krofts return and Knox gaining more experience I expect a lot more production out of this position.

 

*  At RB we're as equally limited as we are at TE.  Gore is a future HOF war horse but he's not the guy who can take over a game.  Yeldon wouldn't make most NFL teams and Singleterry the only RB with a burst of speed is a rookie who has been hurt most of the season.  I've said it before show me a weaker overall backfield in the NFL.  At best this is a bottom 10 backfield.

 

*  At WR the Bills have upgraded the unit from last year and it's no surprise that this is the most productive group of skill players.  Brown & Beasley are reliable play makers.  The early read on Duke is he may be a decent #3 and McKenzie is a nice Jack of all trades kind of player.  But we still don't have a true #1 WR and the drop off from Beasley to the #3 guy has been big.  Worse the fastest WR (Foster) has been hampered by injury. 

 

While we need to improve overall scoring our offensive production in the Red Zone & in Total Yardage has been top 1/3 of the league.  That's good considering our overall offensive talent level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One more point.  While our defense has been great this was the FIRST game in which the D forced a TO giving the ball to the O in the opponents red zone.  And the O scored a TD off that.  Nor have our special teams contributed points outside of FG's. 

 

This does impact the scoring stats.  Take yesterday where the Ravens offense only scored 1 TD and had 3 FG's for 16 points while their D scored 14 points!

 

 

[Bray Wyatt]

according to Brown (I think it was him when he came here this year) this is the most complicated offense he has played in, which I think at times leads to our players thinking too much and not just playing free which causes a lot of these penalties. I feel as the season goes on and going into next year that these should decrease (assuming my belief is correct).

 

I would give Dabs a solid B so far this year, we move the ball well, have good red zone efficiency, and Allen seems to be improving (last two games has cut down on the dumb mistakes)

 

 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

Grade = B- 

I like the ingenuity and it's been awhile since we had a pro-style offense. (Chan Gailey). While I like the scheme in general and love the trick plays and jet sweeps, the play-calling seems to be questionable at critical times. 

 

Maybe it's execution or the timing, but the lack of any deep threat is a little disturbing with all the speed we have.  With all the new faces on offense, it may just be a matter of time before it all gels together.  But Daboll just seems to be a little behind the trend.

 

KC can plug and play their WR's and they can strike quick anytime from anywhere. I think we could have a dangerous offense too, but Daboll doesn't seem to find that rhythm it takes calling plays to completely keep a defense off-balance and constantly second guessing themselves as they get gashed down the field. I think we have the O-line and skill talent to do this but we haven't seen it yet. I'm hoping it comes.

 

 

 

[msw2112]

I'd go with a B+.  For the first time in years, we are running a real, modern NFL offense.  Think of what we saw in the past with Dennison and Hackett - Daboll is a major step up.  There is good, but not great talent and he utilizes it pretty well.  We rarely go 3 and out, and we are pretty effective in short yardage situations.  We rarely come out of the red zone without points.  We move the ball effectively, which helps with field position, even when we don't score.  The one thing I would eliminate are the designed QB runs early in the game.  I am fine with Allen running when a) he's in the pocket and a huge running lane opens up; b) on a broken play where he has space to run; c) running a sneak on short yardage like 3rd or 4th and 1; and d) in the 4th quarter, when the game is on the line.  I am not OK with him on a designed running play in the first 3 quarters of the game.  First, these runs haven't been any more effective than simply giving the ball to the RB.  Second, why expose your QB to injury?  It just makes no sense to me.  As others have mentioned, if Allen connects on a long ball here or there (which he did more of last year, particularly with Foster), things will look a whole lot better.  If Allen overthrows a wide open WR, or a WR drops a pass, that isn't entirely on the OC.

[cd1]

I will have to give him a "we'll C +".

 

I am half thinking that it is Daboll that is letting games get in HIS head.  Possibly the motive behind all the "trick type plays".

 

Perhaps a little MORE confidence and he would just try to pound it down their throats. If that does not work THEN resort to smoke and mirrors.

 

IMHO

[Mark Vader]

53 minutes ago, H2o said:

No, I thought I had read it on here somewhere about him moping around at TC and whatnot which seemed to reflect on his playing time. Maybe it was in the Astro Notes segments? I can't remember. 

 

You two, you and Joe, are probably correct.

 

I hope he can get healthy and get out there. Speed kills in this league, look at Hardman and Hill together. I think it would open up the entire field even more with two guys who can take the top off of the defense on the field at the same time. 

It would be great to have Foster back.

 

I want to see if he can build on his game from last year. Injuries suck.

[PlayoffsPlease]

14 minutes ago, cd1 said:

I will have to give him a "we'll C +".

 

I am half thinking that it is Daboll that is letting games get in HIS head.  Possibly the motive behind all the "trick type plays".

 

Perhaps a little MORE confidence and he would just try to pound it down their throats. If that does not work THEN resort to smoke and mirrors.

 

IMHO

 I agree with this, but think it is a bit deeper problem.  Posters seem to think that it is all about "play calling" and "execution" as if each teams plays are exactly as good as every other teams plays.  On almost every NFL game I watch, other than Bills games, at least once during the game, the commentators find a play that impresses them enough to draw it up and show how the plays design was the key to the play working.  I can't recall one Bills play this year that anyone thought was worth explaining.  I don't think Daboll designs good plays.  Its hard to overcome poorly designed plays with great play calling and/or execution.    We all see a bunch of these plays every game.  You can identify them when you are screaming, mumbling or just thinking "WTF was that"

[dave mcbride]

A-. 

[Maine-iac]

Haven't read every post but I have to give Daboll an A.  Hands down.  He's not perfect but we have a running game.  We have a passing game.  We consistently have plays that work.  We consistently move the ball.  We make in game adjustments and you can see in game improvements (big for me).  There are plays and sometimes parts of games that don't work but that happens to anyone.  The reason we are not scoring more points at the moment are inconsistent QB play (to be expected with a second year QB) and turnovers.  Both of these things should continue to improve over the course of the season.  There is nothing worse than an OC who has a bad game plan and can't make adjustments after it's obvious nothing is working.  Might be my favorite thing about him overall.

[frostbitmic]

C  meh ... We could do worse, could do better too.

 

We seem to move the ball decently until we get near the red zone and then the drive breaks down, often with some head scratching calls. Far too often I'm thinking WTF are you calling rather than thinking that was a great call.

 

Josh is big and strong but if he keeps using him as a RB, Josh is going to be on the IR.

 

One play kind of stuck out to me yesterday. Dawkins got flagged for holding, when they showed a replay, Dawkins was indeed holding, not just one but two players at the same time. The reason he had to hold two at once was that there wasn't anyone to help him block his guy and the other guy as Spain was pulling right.

 

I don't think we have to worry about another team coming in and hiring him to be their HC.

 

 

 

 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

B-

[Chill]

B

Dabs is a genius. He overthinks and it hurts him sometimes. He’s doing a really good job overall. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

I’ll say B..

 

My only concern is I think he’s trying to force Allen into his system instead of designing plays around Allen’s strengths.  

 

Allen's biggest strength is his arm but the Bills are like 0 for how many (I'm guessing 8 or so) deep balls this year. 

I've noticed a high number of those the WR had a step or more on the defender and most balls have been overthrown.

Josh has to start hitting on some of these or Defenses will continue to cheat the safeties up.

[Billsfan1972]

Not including the NE game and in their 5W's.

                 Avg. Allowed      Scored 

Miami      36 pts/gm           31 (inlcuding the On side kick).

NYJ          26.5                      17

Cin           27                         21

Tenn        16.33                    14

NYG          26.5                     28

 

           

[billsfan89]

A- easily having a really good season. The offense lacks an elite passing weapon (John Brown is a good WR2 and Beasely a good WR3 but there lacks a true number one receiver) and a decent tightend (Lee Smith is a blocking specialist, Knox is a raw project and Sweeney is more of a backup at this point who is also developing, and Kroft is well hurt.) The running back core is solid but unspectacular and the O-line is good. So overall I consider the talent Daboll has had to work with around Josh and I think he has done a fairly good job. Josh has also developed in several areas too so it is a plus to see positive QB development. 

 

I can't say it is without fault but play calls are only as good as the result 80% of the time. I think the offense looks to be well put together and a lot of their issues stem from Josh being a young developing QB and the lack of weapons besides Beasley and Brown.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

A. No question. 

 

The scheme is dynamic. i think a lot of the shortcomings so far on O have been due to execution. 
 

 

 

I think to some extent the failure to execute is a matter of needing one more off-season to acquire talent, but they look like an NFL offense at times. I find that surprises me! 

[r00tabaga]

This one's easy. His grade is an A. He's taking a college project out of Wyoming and got him to lead a 5 - 1 team that hasn't had much success in 20 years.

This year he has nine new starters.

[Luka]

C. His play calling and running his scheme no matter what gets us into trouble. I'm happy it's a modern, nuanced scheme. I just think that this is a play action team and the run needs to be established first and fore most. Miami went into this week giving up 169 yards on the ground. There was absolutely zero reason that Gore and Singletary should not have been fed the ball at the beginning of the game. We probably could have ran every play and scored a touchdown on the opening possession.

 

Sure, you can point to the one or two deep shots that Allen missed and put it all on him if you like. But in the end, there needs to be a much bigger emphasis on high percentage passing plays and the run game. You see a lot of teams that are taking deep shots to wide open receivers. Those receivers are open because they have the defense committed to stopping the short passing game and the run game. Dabol dives head first into the intermediate/long game right from the get go. It's playing to the strengths of his QB, sure, but is it really successful? Does it make sense against teams who have a good pass defense?

 

I think that, if McDermott knew much about offense, he would have taken over play calling much like he did with Fraizer last year.

[Locomark]

B-. He doesn’t have much of a screen game, doesn’t throw outs, doesn’t seem to have really gotten the most out of Singletary and puts Allen at risk with all the designed runs IMO.

[artmalibu]

3 designed QB run on the first drive.  

 

Im, not a fan. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

.....the talent we have is about it for 2019......a big improvement over 2018......so before a grade, question is does he use the talent at his disposal as efficiently and effectively to your satisfaction?.....he is allowed a learning curve to be fair.........

[Gray Beard]

Who’s in charge of beating it into Josh’s head to throw the ball away, take the easy pass, don’t tuck and run, don’t hold the ball too long, recognize a blitz, not every pass should be full speed, etc?  Josh is getting better at those things. Slowly. I’m not sure how much of this stuff is on Daboll, and how much is on Josh.  

 

It’s hard to judge the play design and play calls without understanding the division of responsibilities. 

 

It’s getting better, but I still think they have a way to go.   B- now, but I could see that going up or down over the next several games. 

[GreggTX]

Daboll is good, but he relies too much on Allen's arm. I'd like to see us run more. I'd especially like to see Singletary get more carries to see if he can be a #1 RB or if we need to continue to upgrade that position. B-

Edited October 21, 2019 by GreggTX

[Matt_In_NH]

I see a night and day difference between the play calling this year an any recent year and frankly,  I am quite happy with the play calling.  The Bills are #2 in adjusted pass play % only behind the Chiefs.   While I think they should work to balance more I think this shows a concerted effort to change this offense from what we have watched for the last 15 years to a modern NFL offense.   We have been in the stone ages.   I do agree that the designed runs to Allen are perplexing but I like the overall design.  The running game is super efficient.   Pass protection is a concern but Josh reading the defense and making the right throw is the biggest issue.  And dont take that as a "Josh Allen hater", he is not seeing everything as he could but with time I hope that gets better.   He was getting beat consistently by the all out blitz yesterday, when a seasoned QB would make you pay for doing that (at least once in a while).  With the Dolphins it seemed to always be successful.  I think Allen is the big factor.

 

Playcalling is a go to excuse when things dont go the way fans want.  

Edited October 21, 2019 by mattynh

[ngbills]

2 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

 

Gore was breaking off ten yard runs against an historically poor opponent, there was no reason to run the offense like you have Rodgers or Brees back there. I’d prefer to let Allen learn before throwing so much responsibility on him. QB’s like Brady and Roethlisberger were not who they are today when they won their first titles. They played on teams that took advantage of having great defense while easing their young QB into a future role of carrying the team. 

That is what I was thinking. When we are up 14-0 then start flinging it around mixed in with runs. I felt like he tried hard early to get Allen going vs letting the team establish the run as they could not stop it. 

[Matt_In_NH]

49 minutes ago, r00tabaga said:

This one's easy. His grade is an A. He's taking a college project out of Wyoming and got him to lead a 5 - 1 team that hasn't had much success in 20 years.

This year he has nine new starters.

 

This is something that does not get talked about.   There are a lot of new players on offense across the board, its not just the starters.  To make that all work out of the gate is hard.

[MJS]

You are more likely to get hurt getting knocked down in the pocket than on a designed run.

[cd1]

8 minutes ago, mattynh said:

I see a night and day difference between the play calling this year an any recent year and frankly,  I am quite happy with the play calling.  The Bills are #2 in adjusted pass play % only behind the Chiefs.   While I think they should work to balance more I think this shows a concerted effort to change this offense from what we have watched for the last 15 years to a modern NFL offense.   We have been in the stone ages.   I do agree that the designed runs to Allen are perplexing but I like the overall design.  The running game is super efficient.   Pass protection is a concern but Josh reading the defense and making the right throw is the biggest issue.  And dont take that as a "Josh Allen hater", he is not seeing everything as he could but with time I hope that gets better.   He was getting beat up by the all out blitz yesterday, when a seasoned QB would make you pay for doing that (at least once in a while).  With the Dolphins it seemed to always be successful.  I think Allen is the big factor.

 

Playcalling is a go to excuse when things dont go the way fans want.  

 

Really? Third down 4 yards to go and he calls a QB sneak?  

 

It seems to me that Daboll has done this a lot and maybe he thinks NO ONE would ever suspect THAT play and the Bills could score BIG.

[Matt_In_NH]

6 minutes ago, cd1 said:

 

Really? Third down 4 yards to go and he calls a QB sneak?  

 

It seems to me that Daboll has done this a lot and maybe he thinks NO ONE would ever suspect THAT play and the Bills could score BIG.

 

I dont remember a QB sneak on 3rd and 4.  But as I said, there are some things I would change.   But at the end of the day, I like a lot more than I don't like.  I dont care who calls the plays, fans will complain about some aspect of play calling.  Again, it's a modern NFL offensive design and is allowing Allen to get a lot of experience throwing the ball.   I don't like the designed runs.   But find a team whose fans all think the play calling is great, that does not exist.  It is easy and the first thing to criticize.

 

Edited October 21, 2019 by mattynh

[SirAndrew]

40 minutes ago, ngbills said:

That is what I was thinking. When we are up 14-0 then start flinging it around mixed in with runs. I felt like he tried hard early to get Allen going vs letting the team establish the run as they could not stop it. 

Agree, Allen was always viewed as a raw prospect who needs time to develop. I simply like the idea of easing him into a more prominent role slowly over time. Leaning on the run game with an elite defense while Allen learns seems preferable to me.  I’d say it’s better than the sink or swim method of throwing the ball on every down. This team can win with Allen as a game manager, and I can’t believe I’m advocating that after the Tyrod years. The difference is Allen’s arm strength, even in a game manager role, he can make throws that are game changing. He’s also a player than can lead a team back if they fall behind. However, give him time to learn, and lean on him when we need to. Let’s not try to run the Chiefs offense or something like that. Allen isn’t ready for it. 

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

Agree, Allen was always viewed as a raw prospect who needs time to develop. I simply like the idea of easing him into a more prominent role slowly over time. Leaning on the run game with an elite defense while Allen learns seems preferable to me.  I’d say it’s better than the sink or swim method of throwing the ball on every down. This team can win with Allen as a game manager, and I can’t believe I’m advocating that after the Tyrod years. The difference is Allen’s arm strength, even in a game manager role, he can make throws that are game changing. He’s also a player than can lead a team back if they fall behind. However, give him time to learn, and lean on him when we need to. Let’s not try to run the Chiefs offense or something like that. Allen isn’t ready for it. 

Again this is not an elite defense.  It is a good one, but not Elite....  Stop it.

 

It is pretty obvious that having one of the worst offenses year after year  has resulted in such low expectations.

[Don Otreply]

I’d give him a solid B as well, he is just now getting better quality players, Josh is progressing nicely, albeit needs refinement, but we all new that going in. Imo next year at this time we will know more about the potential as to being a franchise guy. This could of course come faster as this season goes on, if the long ball happens once or twice a game, well that’s a whole other story. Oh, Daboll needs to more smoothly incorporate the running game into his game plans. Jmo of course...

 

Go Bills!!!

[1st&ten]

 

Didn't have time to read the whole thread so sorry if this is redundant but I only give him a C----too many gadget plays in short yardage & critical situations. Also too many plays with the ball being handled behind the line of scrimmage. I think his play calling has taken us out of scoring position more than the players mistakes.

[Helpmenow]

B-. I wish he would be a little smarter. No screens in this offense. I shake my head with Allen at times running sweeps. 

[Nanker]

Wonder how some of these folks will react at the end of the season when Danilov starts getting HC offers. 

[Mr. WEO]