Mitch Morse in concussion protocol

[whatdrought]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What?  None?

 

Particularly with a new acquisition on the OL.

 

The OL success is very much about cohesion and communication and that is best built thru live football.

 

No way McProcess sees this absence as a positive.     *At best* it's an unfortunate but necessitated inconvenience.

 

Having important players not playing meaningless games? Yeah.. okay. 

Cohesion is important and that’s why he’ll practice and play later. Just no point in exposing him to any unnecessary risk.

[NoSaint]

20 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

I mean, it’s possible he really is struggling to recover, but how many coaches wouldn’t love to have one of their star players sitting during pre-season? I have a feeling he’ll play in the third game, start practicing before it, and then play the opener without a problem.

 

They could sit any of them they want at any time they want. You don’t need an elaborate exaggerated concussion protocol to do so

39 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Is a man shocker "3 in the stink"?   I was going to ask K-9 the other day when he was sharing his story about being shocked.

 

I take back any nearly nice things I’ve said about you 

[BADOLBILZ]

14 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Having important players not playing meaningless games? Yeah.. okay. 

Cohesion is important and that’s why he’ll practice and play later. Just no point in exposing him to any unnecessary risk.

 

 

You really need to change your avatar to the "ancient aliens" dude.............you can build a totally implausible narrative with almost no material with the best of em'.     I ain't mad, it's entertaining at least.

[JoPar_v2]

35 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

They could sit any of them they want at any time they want. You don’t need an elaborate exaggerated concussion protocol to do so

 

 

That’s exactly it - these twisted narratives about “well, they are just keeping him in the protocol all preseason just so he doesn’t play” are a bit far fetched. They could have easily just said, before the first preseason game, “he’s fine, we ain’t playin him.” 

 

Exactly like what they did with McCoy.

Edited August 12, 2019 by JoPar_v2

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, skibum said:

Just a quick reminder that none of us know anything about this situation. That is all.

What we do know is that this is his fourth concussion and he missed 5 games in 2018 because of one. At some point very soon the question will be quality of life after football. 

[RiotAct]

if he does end up missing significant time this season then retiring, I may have to bust out some Evanescence CDs, candles, and black face paint.

[co_springs_billsfan]

Belichick gonna put James Develin on defense for one play

 

[GETTOTHE50]

3 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I mean, it’s possible he really is struggling to recover, but how many coaches wouldn’t love to have one of their star players sitting during pre-season? I have a feeling he’ll play in the third game, start practicing before it, and then play the opener without a problem.

 

i want to say this is the plan, but I’m having a hard time remembering this was true for any player 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I mean, it’s possible he really is struggling to recover, but how many coaches wouldn’t love to have one of their star players sitting during pre-season? I have a feeling he’ll play in the third game, start practicing before it, and then play the opener without a problem.

 

I’m not 100% on how it works, but I doubt anyone on the coaching staff can intentionally keep a player In CP.

 

[njbuff]

People are worried because this organization is keeping mum about it and nothing has really leaked out.

[JimmyNoodles]

5 hours ago, Augie said:

 

If it were that easy, everyone would be wearing them already. This sucks. I’m praying he can be all we had hoped for, but I’ll put the man ahead of the player. It was a gamble. We knew that. 

I think he'll have whatever experimental state of the art contraption exists. 

[Big Blitz]

Hold him out till the playoffs.  

[JoPar_v2]

25 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Hold him out till the playoffs.  

 

Super funny. U should send your act to netflix

[nucci]

8 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I mean, it’s possible he really is struggling to recover, but how many coaches wouldn’t love to have one of their star players sitting during pre-season? I have a feeling he’ll play in the third game, start practicing before it, and then play the opener without a problem.

Star players sit out preseason games all the time. No need to make up excuses. McCoy didn't play. 

[Element115]

18 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Definitely.  And I do NOT fault Beane for bringing him in.  Everyone has an injury history of some sort.  It's a crap shoot.  I'm sure if Luke Keuchly was available, multiple teams would show interest.

Who was the other center that everyone assumed we were going after? From Denver iirc. Maybe that should have been the choice.

[Jpsredemption]

Morse and Kroft, signings that should have come under immediate scrutiny due to lofty contracts and injury concerns and in Krofts case production concerns, do not look good right now. This front office wants to take gambles and a part of me respects that but the concussion concerns should no longer be overlooked. Careers will now end prematurely because of it and for good reason. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, Element115 said:

Who was the other center that everyone assumed we were going after? From Denver iirc. Maybe that should have been the choice.

 

Doesn't know the name of the "other center" but is sure it was the better idea.

 

Genius.

 

[PetermansRedemption]

1 hour ago, Element115 said:

Who was the other center that everyone assumed we were going after? From Denver iirc. Maybe that should have been the choice.

Paradis, who, in a thin center market, was only able to receive a one year deal because of his own injury concerns.

[ALF]

After what ended Eric Wood's career , that position can be a gamble.

[nucci]

59 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

Morse and Kroft, signings that should have come under immediate scrutiny due to lofty contracts and injury concerns and in Krofts case production concerns, do not look good right now. This front office wants to take gambles and a part of me respects that but the concussion concerns should no longer be overlooked. Careers will now end prematurely because of it and for good reason. 

every player is one play away from a career ending injury. 

[Putin]

1 hour ago, Jpsredemption said:

Morse and Kroft, signings that should have come under immediate scrutiny due to lofty contracts and injury concerns and in Krofts case production concerns, do not look good right now. This front office wants to take gambles and a part of me respects that but the concussion concerns should no longer be overlooked. Careers will now end prematurely because of it and for good reason. 

Soooo what your saying is Trump is to blame ?

Edited August 12, 2019 by Putin

[ddaryl]

7 minutes ago, Putin said:

Soooo what your saying is Trump is to blame ?

 

Finally a voice of reason  ?

[Mat68]

1 hour ago, Jpsredemption said:

Morse and Kroft, signings that should have come under immediate scrutiny due to lofty contracts and injury concerns and in Krofts case production concerns, do not look good right now. This front office wants to take gambles and a part of me respects that but the concussion concerns should no longer be overlooked. Careers will now end prematurely because of it and for good reason. 

Kroft is basically a 1 year contract without any penalty.  Morse is larger but essentially a 3 year deal.   He was the top 1 or 2 centers on the market depending who you ask.  Paradis the other center had just as many injury concerns too.  They are a little under 4 weeks away.  In 2 weeks nothing changes?  Now I'm concerned.  Not yet.  Plenty of time to get reps with Allen and the Oline.

[Element115]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Doesn't know the name of the "other center" but is sure it was the better idea.

 

Genius.

 

I don't follow centers, I doubt many people do...

 

 

[oldmanfan]

The worst case scenario is that Morse cannot come back and they reach an injury settlement.  In which case it was pretty smart for Beane to have also brought on both Feliciano and Long, both of which can play the position. 

[DJB]

Still very concerning  he hasn't fully practiced or recovered yet .

[Ittakestime]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The worst case scenario is that Morse cannot come back and they reach an injury settlement.  In which case it was pretty smart for Beane to have also brought on both Feliciano and Long, both of which can play the position. 

 

Can people stop saying Long can play center?  Just because a guy was put there and failed miserably, doesn't mean he can play it.

 

They guy can't play it and was not brought here to play it.

[BigBuff423]

Look, for those who have made some comments about Beane and his questionable decision-making in signing Morse, keep in mind the recent history of the Buffalo Bills. More specifically, in years past the fan base has lit the FO up for not taking chances on supremely talented and qualified players and then he does, and now some folks want to grab their pitchforks and torches. First, we don't know yet what is really happening until the season starts. Second, I'll give Beane credit for going out and signing the ONE guy who was head and shoulders above the rest at his position and was THE position of truest need for Allen to develop. He swung for the fences and threw some caution to the wind to do it. Most of us have been tired of the Jauron-esque super anxious, safe approach to signing players, but now Beane has gone about trying to sign the the *right* players at the *right* time. Beane took his chance, so I give him credit for making every effort to address the position and we'll see how it works out.

Edited August 12, 2019 by BigBuff423
grammar and spelling....early morning mid-coffee rant

[CommonCents]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The worst case scenario is that Morse cannot come back and they reach an injury settlement.  In which case it was pretty smart for Beane to have also brought on both Feliciano and Long, both of which can play the position. 

If a guy you just inked to a premium contract is one soft practice away from retiring due to injury would you atleast say wow we screwed up? 

 

If Morse is toast I’d begin doubting the staffs ability to evaluate players. They couldn’t find a connection in KC or around the league who knew more about this? 

 

It’s not the end of the world, but if we are evaluating the FO this would be a huge black eye on the pro personnel side of things. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Ittakestime said:

 

Can people stop saying Long can play center?  Just because a guy was put there and failed miserably, doesn't mean he can play it.

 

They guy can't play it and was not brought here to play it.

 

 

They brought in Long when they needed 2 guards AND a center.    I am guessing they wouldn't have brought him in at all if they knew they were going to get all the players they did in UFA plus Ford in the draft.   I give credit to Beane for not giving up the pursuit of better.    Spain might prove to be the best of the group and they could easily have been "out" on him after all the players they added.    

[LABILLBACKER]

Make the player who slapped Morse in the helmet pay for the remainder of his contract. 

[oldmanfan]

14 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

 

Can people stop saying Long can play center?  Just because a guy was put there and failed miserably, doesn't mean he can play it.

 

They guy can't play it and was not brought here to play it.

He played it with a messed up hand last year. And it seems clear Feliciano is the main backup.

[BillsCuse]

18 minutes ago, DJB said:

Still very concerning  he hasn't fully practiced or recovered yet .

Concerning yes, but it's also possible they are being cautious with him since they are still a month away from the first game.  No reason to rush him back.

[oldmanfan]

12 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

If a guy you just inked to a premium contract is one soft practice away from retiring due to injury would you atleast say wow we screwed up? 

 

If Morse is toast I’d begin doubting the staffs ability to evaluate players. They couldn’t find a connection in KC or around the league who knew more about this? 

 

It’s not the end of the world, but if we are evaluating the FO this would be a huge black eye on the pro personnel side of things. 

If you look back at Morse’s interview with WGR he talks about some extensive testing in the offseason which indicated he didn’t have much recurrence risk.  I presume the front office knew something about that.

 

I think this is a classic case of folks

here thinking have more knowledge that the fromt office.  Beane took what I’d call a calculated gamble perhaps, but he had a lot more data available to make that play.  And if it doesn’t work out then he lost.

[BarleyNY]

22 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The worst case scenario is that Morse cannot come back and they reach an injury settlement.  In which case it was pretty smart for Beane to have also brought on both Feliciano and Long, both of which can play the position. 

 

Morse had $20.4M guaranteed at signing. That is what the Bills are on the hook for.  There’s no point in any injury settlement if he’s done.  Those are only in cases where a team and player both want to move on and the player wants to play elsewhere later in the same season.  That would not be the case here.

 

[Steve O]

1 hour ago, Putin said:

Soooo what your saying is Trump is to blame ?

Well, he certainly can't be blamed for YOUR bad grammar. Once again, your and you're are not interchangeable

[Heitz]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I think this is a classic case of folks here thinking have more knowledge that the front office. 

 

Hmmmmmmm, doesn't sound like the TBD *I* know ?

 

[MR8]

2 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

Morse and Kroft, signings that should have come under immediate scrutiny due to lofty contracts and injury concerns and in Krofts case production concerns, do not look good right now. This front office wants to take gambles and a part of me respects that but the concussion concerns should no longer be overlooked. Careers will now end prematurely because of it and for good reason. 

 

The Kroft and Morse deals LOOK "Lofty" but in reality they are not... Morse's is a bit more firm than Kroft, but both are deals the Bills can get out of fairly easily...

 

Kroft's Deal:

Year	Age	Base Salary	Prorated Bonus	Roster Bonus	Per Game Roster Bonus	Workout Bonus		Guaranteed Salary		Cap Number	Cap %		Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension
Total		$10,950,000	$2,400,000	$3,600,000	$1,500,000	$300,000		$3,900,000		$18,406,250
2019 ?	27	$1,800,000	$800,000	$2,100,000	$500,000	$100,000		$3,900,000		$4,956,250	2.6%		$6,300,000	($1,343,750)
2020 ?	28	$4,450,000	$800,000	$750,000	$500,000	$100,000		$0		$6,600,000	3.3%		$1,600,000	$5,000,000
2021 ?	29	$4,700,000	$800,000	$750,000	$500,000	$100,000		$0		$6,850,000	--		$800,000	$6,050,000

 

So he'a s Cap hit of just $4.95M in 2019, which increases to $6.6M in 2020.  HOWEVER in 2020 if we want to cut him we wear just a $1.6M cap hit with $5M in cap savings.  In 2021, he would be $6.85M against the cap, but if we cut him we wear just a $800K cap hit and save $6.05M.  

 

This deal is by definition a 1 year deal with team option years.  Kroft gets nice guaranteed salary for 2019, but going into 2020 and 2021 there is nothing guaranteed, so he needs to EARN IT.  If he can't stay healthy this year, they can put him on IR and come to an injury settlement, OR just wait until the 2020 league year, release him, and wear a small cap penalty and move on.  It's not the end of the world by any means.

 

Morse Deal:

 

Year	Age	Base Salary	Prorated Bonus	Roster Bonus	Per Game Roster Bonus	Workout Bonus		Guaranteed Salary		Cap Number	Cap %		Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension
Total		$25,100,000	$11,000,000	$5,000,000	$3,000,000	$400,000		$9,400,000		$44,187,500
2019	26	$4,400,000	$2,750,000	$3,000,000	$1,000,000	$100,000		$7,400,000		$10,937,500	5.8%		$20,400,000	($9,462,500)
2020 ?	27	$6,775,000	$2,750,000	$1,000,000	$1,000,000	$100,000		$2,000,000		$11,625,000	5.8%		$10,250,000	$1,375,000
2021	28	$7,025,000	$2,750,000	$0	$500,000	$100,000		$0		$10,375,000	--		$5,500,000	$4,875,000
2022 ?	29	$6,900,000	$2,750,000	$1,000,000	$500,000	$100,000		$0		$11,250,000	--		$2,750,000	$8,500,000

 

WHAT?!?!?!? $44M??? HIT THE PANIC BUTTON!!!!! Oh, what's that? only $9.4M is guaranteed?

 

The Morse deal is a bit more than a 1 year deal like Kroft's, it's essentially a 2 year deal with SIGNIFICANT protection to the Bills considering the dangers of injuries for Morse.  The first year, this year, 2019, he is $10.9M against the cap, and it would be a SIZEABLE $20M to cut him... well he'd be post June 1st now so it would be $12M in 2019 and $8M in 2020... but I digress.... Sure that's big, we can't get rid of him in 2019, HOWEVER in 2020, his cap hit goes up to $11,625, but if we decided to opt out of the experiment and go in a different direction, he can be release for a $10.25M dead cap hit, and actual cap savings of $1.3M.  

 

After that 2 year period, the Bills realize much larger cap savings if they want to get out from under the Morse deal... in 2021, they could cut him for a $5.5M cap hit and $4.87M savings and in 2022 the final year, we could cut him and only wear the final $2.75M of his signing bonus and save $8.5M

 

While it was a risk to sign Morse to a deal with this much money, they structured it with outs every year following the 2019 season where they would eat cap, but could also get relief if they chose to move on from Morse, or Morse needed to retire etc...

 

If they or Morse himself decides he's done after 2019, we do wear $10M in dead cap, but it comes in a year when we are FLUSH with cap to replace him, and after 2020, that is off the books and we move on.  If he gets healthy and stays a few years, our ability to get out from under the deal only gets better and better. 

 

....

 

People complain about the deal like it's going to kill us in the future, however those same people tend to run around complaining without actually looking at the details of the contract and the ability for the Bills to get out of them.  There's a new sheriff in town and unlike years past, Beane is structuring deals to benefit the Bills long term, while throwing the players a bone short term to get them to ink the deal.

[DJB]

37 minutes ago, Steve O said:

Well, he certainly can't be blamed for YOUR bad grammar. Once again, your and you're are not interchangeable

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=grammar+police+badge&oq=grammar+police+&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l3.7028j1j8&client=tablet-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=O3QUSsDHsYlfcM:

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

21 minutes ago, MR8 said:

 

The Kroft and Morse deals LOOK "Lofty" but in reality they are not... Morse's is a bit more firm than Kroft, but both are deals the Bills can get out of fairly easily...

 

Kroft's Deal:

Year	Age	Base Salary	Prorated Bonus	Roster Bonus	Per Game Roster Bonus	Workout Bonus		Guaranteed Salary		Cap Number	Cap %		Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension
Total		$10,950,000	$2,400,000	$3,600,000	$1,500,000	$300,000		$3,900,000		$18,406,250
2019 ?	27	$1,800,000	$800,000	$2,100,000	$500,000	$100,000		$3,900,000		$4,956,250	2.6%		$6,300,000	($1,343,750)
2020 ?	28	$4,450,000	$800,000	$750,000	$500,000	$100,000		$0		$6,600,000	3.3%		$1,600,000	$5,000,000
2021 ?	29	$4,700,000	$800,000	$750,000	$500,000	$100,000		$0		$6,850,000	--		$800,000	$6,050,000

 

So he'a s Cap hit of just $4.95M in 2019, which increases to $6.6M in 2020.  HOWEVER in 2020 if we want to cut him we wear just a $1.6M cap hit with $5M in cap savings.  In 2021, he would be $6.85M against the cap, but if we cut him we wear just a $800K cap hit and save $6.05M.  

 

This deal is by definition a 1 year deal with team option years.  Kroft gets nice guaranteed salary for 2019, but going into 2020 and 2021 there is nothing guaranteed, so he needs to EARN IT.  If he can't stay healthy this year, they can put him on IR and come to an injury settlement, OR just wait until the 2020 league year, release him, and wear a small cap penalty and move on.  It's not the end of the world by any means.

 

Morse Deal:

 

Year	Age	Base Salary	Prorated Bonus	Roster Bonus	Per Game Roster Bonus	Workout Bonus		Guaranteed Salary		Cap Number	Cap %		Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension
Total		$25,100,000	$11,000,000	$5,000,000	$3,000,000	$400,000		$9,400,000		$44,187,500
2019	26	$4,400,000	$2,750,000	$3,000,000	$1,000,000	$100,000		$7,400,000		$10,937,500	5.8%		$20,400,000	($9,462,500)
2020 ?	27	$6,775,000	$2,750,000	$1,000,000	$1,000,000	$100,000		$2,000,000		$11,625,000	5.8%		$10,250,000	$1,375,000
2021	28	$7,025,000	$2,750,000	$0	$500,000	$100,000		$0		$10,375,000	--		$5,500,000	$4,875,000
2022 ?	29	$6,900,000	$2,750,000	$1,000,000	$500,000	$100,000		$0		$11,250,000	--		$2,750,000	$8,500,000

 

WHAT?!?!?!? $44M??? HIT THE PANIC BUTTON!!!!! Oh, what's that? only $9.4M is guaranteed?

 

The Morse deal is a bit more than a 1 year deal like Kroft's, it's essentially a 2 year deal with SIGNIFICANT protection to the Bills considering the dangers of injuries for Morse.  The first year, this year, 2019, he is $10.9M against the cap, and it would be a SIZEABLE $20M to cut him... well he'd be post June 1st now so it would be $12M in 2019 and $8M in 2020... but I digress.... Sure that's big, we can't get rid of him in 2019, HOWEVER in 2020, his cap hit goes up to $11,625, but if we decided to opt out of the experiment and go in a different direction, he can be release for a $10.25M dead cap hit, and actual cap savings of $1.3M.  

 

After that 2 year period, the Bills realize much larger cap savings if they want to get out from under the Morse deal... in 2021, they could cut him for a $5.5M cap hit and $4.87M savings and in 2022 the final year, we could cut him and only wear the final $2.75M of his signing bonus and save $8.5M

 

While it was a risk to sign Morse to a deal with this much money, they structured it with outs every year following the 2019 season where they would eat cap, but could also get relief if they chose to move on from Morse, or Morse needed to retire etc...

 

If they or Morse himself decides he's done after 2019, we do wear $10M in dead cap, but it comes in a year when we are FLUSH with cap to replace him, and after 2020, that is off the books and we move on.  If he gets healthy and stays a few years, our ability to get out from under the deal only gets better and better. 

 

....

 

People complain about the deal like it's going to kill us in the future, however those same people tend to run around complaining without actually looking at the details of the contract and the ability for the Bills to get out of them.  There's a new sheriff in town and unlike years past, Beane is structuring deals to benefit the Bills long term, while throwing the players a bone short term to get them to ink the deal.

I [heart] any poster willing to do this kind of analysis.