Unleash Josh Allen...stop trying to change him

[Alphadawg7]

The most disturbing thing I heard during the game last night was the commentators talk about how Josh talked about how he doesn't make those crazy plays anymore and stuff.  Basically talking about taming down his game.  There has been so much made about his "turnovers" after the Jets game that now Josh is holding back when it comes to the things that makes Josh special.  

 

Josh doesn't just make a wow OMG insane play once in a while, he makes them many times a game be it with his arm or his legs.  But ever since the Jets game where he made a few mistakes, there is this HUGE push to tame Josh and its not just the media, Josh is saying it himself.  But the reality is, those "turnovers" have NOT been the issue for us...Josh being super man has NOT been the issue for us as to WHY we haven't made a Super Bowl yet.  In fact, they have been the ONLY reason we were even in the conversation for one.  

 

2021 - the first season where SB expectations were realistic and high coming off Josh's first breakout year he was INSANE in the playoffs.  Our defense got us bounced when he out dueled Mahomes but the limp defense folded in both 13 seconds and OT.  

 

2022 - the loss to Bengals was a team loss.  Being an air it out offense, we have been known to struggle in the bad weather games offensively because we couldn't run the ball.  The OL was terrible, Bengals dominated the trenches on both sides of the ball, and everyone had a bad game.  We didn't lose because of Josh "trying to be Superman"...this team just got its a** kicked in every facet of the game.  

 

So why are we trying to tame Josh?  Many times a game we extend drives or score because Josh did something unbelievable.  I am all for getting Josh to take what the defense gives him, look for quick strikes, etc.  But at the same time, this narrative that he needs to be tamed some is IMHO wrong.  He just isn't looking to make the big plays with his legs as much now or make those tougher throws as much.  There have now been many times this year, including games we lost, there were moments it looked like he could have run and made the big play with his legs but pulled up and tried to throw it instead or waited so long to try and throw it that the run opportunity closed and he got just a few yards instead.  

 

Not only is it affecting him making plays with his legs, but the hesitation from Josh trying to hold his instincts back seems to also keep him from seeing other opportunities now he normally would take.  Before, when Josh was buying time I feel like everything was an option.  Now, when he gets away from pressure it feels like he is locking on to an area where the safest throw should be and doesn't see guys wide open in other areas of the field he would normally fire a ball too in those moments.  

 

Coming into 2023, Mahomes only had 4 less INTs and Burrow only had 3 less INTs over the past 2 seasons.  And Mahomes has had more weapons in that time and a much better OL while Burrow has had substantially better weapons...not to mention Josh played half a season with a hurt throwing elbow and plays in worse weather.  But he doesn't really have that many more INTs than those guys despite the personnel advantages they have over Josh.  

 

So this need to try and tame Josh needs to go away IMHO, let him ball like his instincts know because we win A LOT more games than we lose because of it.  And its that Josh that this team needs, especially with the issues we already have with Dorsey.  

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Einstein]

We need some WR's that can separate.

Look at this play - Diggs is double covered and not a single other receiving option can get seperation.

 

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The most disturbing thing I heard during the game last night was the commentators talk about how Josh talked about how he doesn't make those crazy plays anymore and stuff.  Basically talking about taming down his game.  There has been so much made about his "turnovers" after the Jets game that now Josh is holding back when it comes to the things that makes Josh special.  

 

Josh doesn't just make a wow OMG insane play once in a while, he makes them many times a game be it with his arm or his legs.  But ever since the Jets game where he made a few mistakes, there is this HUGE push to tame Josh and its not just the media, Josh is saying it himself.  But the reality is, those "turnovers" have NOT been the issue for us...Josh being super man has NOT been the issue for us as to WHY we haven't made a Super Bowl yet.  In fact, they have been the ONLY reason we were even in the conversation for one.  

 

2021 - the first season where SB expectations were realistic and high coming off Josh's first breakout year he was INSANE in the playoffs.  Our defense got us bounced when he out dueled Mahomes but the limp defense folded in both 13 seconds and OT.  

 

2022 - the loss to Bengals was a team loss.  Being an air it out offense, we have been known to struggle in the bad weather games offensively because we couldn't run the ball.  The OL was terrible, Bengals dominated the trenches on both sides of the ball, and everyone had a bad game.  We didn't lose because of Josh "trying to be Superman"...this team just got its a** kicked in every facet of the game.  

 

So why are we trying to tame Josh?  Many times a game we extend drives or score because Josh did something unbelievable.  I am all for getting Josh to take what the defense gives him, look for quick strikes, etc.  But at the same time, this narrative that he needs to be tamed some is IMHO wrong.  He just isn't looking to make the big plays with his legs as much now or make those tougher throws as much.  There have now been many times this year, including games we lost, there were moments it looked like he could have run and made the big play with his legs but pulled up and tried to throw it instead or waited so long to try and throw it that the run opportunity closed and he got just a few yards instead.  

 

Not only is it affecting him making plays with his legs, but the hesitation from Josh trying to hold his instincts back seems to also keep him from seeing other opportunities now he normally would take.  Before, when Josh was buying time I feel like everything was an option.  Now, when he gets away from pressure it feels like he is locking on to an area where the safest throw should be and doesn't see guys wide open in other areas of the field he would normally fire a ball too in those moments.  

 

Coming into 2023, Mahomes only had 4 less INTs and Burrow only had 3 less INTs over the past 2 seasons.  And Mahomes has had more weapons in that time and a much better OL while Burrow has had substantially better weapons...not to mention Josh played half a season with a hurt throwing elbow and plays in worse weather.  But he doesn't really have that many more INTs than those guys despite the personnel advantages they have over Josh.  

 

So this need to try and tame Josh needs to go away IMHO, let him ball like his instincts know because we win A LOT more games than we lose because of it.  And its that Josh that this team needs, especially with the issues we already have with Dorsey.  

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

 

There has to be some happy medium between reckless Josh and tame Josh, and that's what HE needs to find.

 

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

We need some WR's that can separate.

Look at this play - Diggs is double covered and not a single other receiving option can get seperation.

 

 

 

See, now that's a play where he should run.

 

If all the receivers are blanketed, he can REALLY punish a defense with his legs. Whoever's telling him NOT to do that is wrong.

 

[LabattBlue]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

There has to be some happy medium between reckless Josh and tame Josh, and that's what HE needs to find.

 

This is how I feel, but I think the coaches  have screwed him up to the point where he now believes his running ability is on par with cement shoes Bledsoe.  

[Aussie Joe]

That Jets game is going to have a legacy…. That was a terrible loss

[From Roc to Ky bills fan]

6 minutes ago, Einstein said:

We need some WR's that can separate.

Look at this play - Diggs is double covered and not a single other receiving option can get seperation.

 

 

 

All do respect Einstein, we need Josh to eat this coverage alive with his legs. Let Josh eat. Don't try to change him 

[Bangarang]

I don’t like that running was coached out of Josh. It was such a dynamic part of his game and what made him elite. 
 

Running was never the problem, it was taking unnecessary contact.

 

Watching him avoid picking up easy yards with his feet just to try and force a throw outside of the pocket has been frustrating.

[4th&long]

I totally agree. I’ve been saying this for awhile. Josh has a style, a game he plays and that is what made him special and they took that away from him! 
 

Free Josh Allen!

[Ramza86]

I wonder if they are chaining him down so they could drill making the right throw in his head so when the playoffs come around hell know exactly what to do with the ball with every given situation. Id rather have Josh not playing at home if hes always making the right decision then him being too much of a hero and ending our season in the playoffs.

 

I imagine they arent that smart are they?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

On pace for 4,500 passing yards, 36 passing TDs, and 9 rushing TDs.

 

Can’t wait to see him unleashed.

[Warcodered]

16 minutes ago, Einstein said:

We need some WR's that can separate.

Look at this play - Diggs is double covered and not a single other receiving option can get seperation.

 

 

 

What's the play call

Dorsey: Alright Diggs your run this this and this.

Other WR, TE and RB: What about us?

Dorsey: Just go wherever I guess.

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

I don’t like that running was coached out of Josh. It was such a dynamic part of his game and what made him elite. 
 

Running was never the problem, it was taking unnecessary contact.

 

Watching him avoid picking up easy yards with his feet just to try and force a throw outside of the pocket has been frustrating.

Definitly need to let Josh run if he sees an opening he can murder teams that way why take that away. As to the unnecessary contact that is somewhat true he'd do that sometimes but he could also be great at taking hits without like taking a real hit.

[RiotAct]

2 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

I wonder if they are chaining him down so they could drill making the right throw in his head so when the playoffs come around hell know exactly what to do with the ball with every given situation.

yeahhh, let’s go with that 😄

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

20 minutes ago, Einstein said:

We need some WR's that can separate.

Look at this play - Diggs is double covered and not a single other receiving option can get seperation.

 

 

 

 

Quite a bit of contact there too considering Allen was still in the pocket during this play.  

[BaaadThingsMan]

I think there's a middle ground here somewhere.

 

The issue is the media has seized on Allen because of all the attention he's gotten and they make a story out of every game. 

 

His star has exploded and the networks have realized his story sells so that's not gonna change.

 

Josh has to settle into his celebrity and learn how to navigate the extra outside noise he's facing every week while balancing the need to take over games and make plays when needed. 

 

[MAJBobby]

21 minutes ago, Einstein said:

We need some WR's that can separate.

Look at this play - Diggs is double covered and not a single other receiving option can get seperation.

 

 

 

The guy on the 20 is open but Josh left pocket and takes that WR out of it.  

[NoSaint]

10 minutes ago, From Roc to Ky bills fan said:

All do respect Einstein, we need Josh to eat this coverage alive with his legs. Let Josh eat. Don't try to change him 

that’s how we keep drives moving and how we break those guys out of that type of coverage the rest of the game. 
 

now he doesn’t have to lower the shoulder on 2 linebackers 10 yards short of or 5 yards past the sticks but churn a chunk of yards and get down or out of bounds shouldn’t be some mystical target

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, Einstein said:

We need some WR's that can separate.

Look at this play - Diggs is double covered and not a single other receiving option can get seperation.

 

 

 

 

Yep. This is much more the issue than any changing of Josh or anything of that nature. Teams have reverted the past two weeks to double Diggs and man up the rest. The Bills don't have an answer at the moment because the other guys are not winning their assignments.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

35 minutes ago, Einstein said:

We need some WR's that can separate.

Look at this play - Diggs is double covered and not a single other receiving option can get seperation.

 

 

 

Whoever is on the right hash at the 20 looks open. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I’m much happier with what we are seeing now than the idiocy on display week 1. 
 

his TD throw to Morris was an example of an absurd Josh allen throw, same about the deep sideline ball to Gabe Davis vs Jax. 
 

Agree beside Diggs receiver separation is a problem. Was hoping Kinkade would do something here. We will see. 

[zow2]

Once again, Allen gets injured either in the pocket or moving backwards,,, not running the ball forwards.  So the narrative of don't run and risk injury is not true.  Don't run and initiate unnecessary contact is more reasonable.  

 

I saw that Anthony Richardson may call it a season and have shoulder surgery. Supposedly he has a grade 3 AC joint sprain.  Some internet doctors think Josh got an AC joint sprain on the play last night.  If he did, he's a tough SOB (as we already know) to keep playing and slinging some ropes in the 3rd and 4th Qtr. I'm sure it hurts and I sure hope it's a very mild sprain or whatever it is.

[H2o]

I like the "take what the defense is giving" version of Josh better than "force the ball into double or triple coverage" version of Josh. If he consistently takes what the defense will give him, then we won't lose many football games outside of defensive meltdowns. Josh will still make plays only Josh can make, just like the throw to Morris. Or like the throw back across his body to Gabe in the endzone. There aren't too many people who can do that. Maybe Mahomes. Let him run if he wants to run, I just don't like the designed run plays. He just needs to slide or get out of bounds. You know, be smart about it. Another 2 or 3 yards isn't worth the punishment. 

[Warcodered]

6 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Once again, Allen gets injured either in the pocket or moving backwards,,, not running the ball forwards.  So the narrative of don't run and risk injury is not true.  Don't run and initiate unnecessary contact is more reasonable.  

 

I saw that Anthony Richardson may call it a season and have shoulder surgery. Supposedly he has a grade 3 AC joint sprain.  Some internet doctors think Josh got an AC joint sprain on the play last night.  If he did, he's a tough SOB (as we already know) to keep playing and slinging some ropes in the 3rd and 4th Qtr. I'm sure it hurts and I sure hope it's a very mild sprain or whatever it is.

He then threw that shoulder into the two Giants assaulting Brown.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

If we had a good head coach that actually had a plan for Josh and put the right coaches in place for him, we could have a healthy balance of unleashing him and being smart. 
 

But we don’t. We don’t even have a plan for the next game. I would love for someone to explain what the plan was for last nights game. 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

We need some WR's that can separate.

Look at this play - Diggs is double covered and not a single other receiving option can get seperation.

 

 

 

 

I pull screen shots myself, but one has to use them judiciously, as a WR may be uncovered before or after

He really looks leashed up here

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

49 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

On pace for 4,500 passing yards, 36 passing TDs, and 9 rushing TDs.

 

Can’t wait to see him unleashed.

That is amazingly equivalent to the last 3 years.  Rush yards are way down however which you left out.  I dont need to see designed runs by Josh, the RB's are doing that good this year.  A few more scrambles?  Sure I would sign up for that.  I view this differently, Josh is evolving and evolution does not happen without challenges.  I think people are generally so insatiable for all offense all the time, they cannot handle a game here and there where things dont go as well.  Show me the team that has no challenges in some games....I'm waiting.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Matt_In_NH

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

We need some WR's that can separate.

Look at this play - Diggs is double covered and not a single other receiving option can get seperation.

 

 

 

No WRs who can get open + no OC who can scheme them open = bad day 

[Gunsgoodtime]

51 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

I wonder if they are chaining him down so they could drill making the right throw in his head so when the playoffs come around hell know exactly what to do with the ball with every given situation. Id rather have Josh not playing at home if hes always making the right decision then him being too much of a hero and ending our season in the playoffs.

 

I imagine they arent that smart are they?

If the coaches don't get their head out of their asses soon there won't be any playoffs!  We desperately need a wr2 as well

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

We need some WR's that can separate.

Look at this play - Diggs is double covered and not a single other receiving option can get seperation.

 

 

 

For the Gabe Davis is fine as our #2 crowd —- Cover 1. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The most disturbing thing I heard during the game last night was the commentators talk about how Josh talked about how he doesn't make those crazy plays anymore and stuff.  Basically talking about taming down his game.  There has been so much made about his "turnovers" after the Jets game that now Josh is holding back when it comes to the things that makes Josh special.  

 

Josh doesn't just make a wow OMG insane play once in a while, he makes them many times a game be it with his arm or his legs.  But ever since the Jets game where he made a few mistakes, there is this HUGE push to tame Josh and its not just the media, Josh is saying it himself.  But the reality is, those "turnovers" have NOT been the issue for us...Josh being super man has NOT been the issue for us as to WHY we haven't made a Super Bowl yet.  In fact, they have been the ONLY reason we were even in the conversation for one.  

 

2021 - the first season where SB expectations were realistic and high coming off Josh's first breakout year he was INSANE in the playoffs.  Our defense got us bounced when he out dueled Mahomes but the limp defense folded in both 13 seconds and OT.  

 

2022 - the loss to Bengals was a team loss.  Being an air it out offense, we have been known to struggle in the bad weather games offensively because we couldn't run the ball.  The OL was terrible, Bengals dominated the trenches on both sides of the ball, and everyone had a bad game.  We didn't lose because of Josh "trying to be Superman"...this team just got its a** kicked in every facet of the game.  

 

So why are we trying to tame Josh?  Many times a game we extend drives or score because Josh did something unbelievable.  I am all for getting Josh to take what the defense gives him, look for quick strikes, etc.  But at the same time, this narrative that he needs to be tamed some is IMHO wrong.  He just isn't looking to make the big plays with his legs as much now or make those tougher throws as much.  There have now been many times this year, including games we lost, there were moments it looked like he could have run and made the big play with his legs but pulled up and tried to throw it instead or waited so long to try and throw it that the run opportunity closed and he got just a few yards instead.  

 

Not only is it affecting him making plays with his legs, but the hesitation from Josh trying to hold his instincts back seems to also keep him from seeing other opportunities now he normally would take.  Before, when Josh was buying time I feel like everything was an option.  Now, when he gets away from pressure it feels like he is locking on to an area where the safest throw should be and doesn't see guys wide open in other areas of the field he would normally fire a ball too in those moments.  

 

Coming into 2023, Mahomes only had 4 less INTs and Burrow only had 3 less INTs over the past 2 seasons.  And Mahomes has had more weapons in that time and a much better OL while Burrow has had substantially better weapons...not to mention Josh played half a season with a hurt throwing elbow and plays in worse weather.  But he doesn't really have that many more INTs than those guys despite the personnel advantages they have over Josh.  

 

So this need to try and tame Josh needs to go away IMHO, let him ball like his instincts know because we win A LOT more games than we lose because of it.  And its that Josh that this team needs, especially with the issues we already have with Dorsey.  

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

Thanks OP; well said, I agree with all of this. From your keyboard to Dorsey’s/McD’s ears…

Edited October 16, 2023 by NoHuddleKelly12

[DeltaDigital]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

We need some WR's that can separate.

Look at this play - Diggs is double covered and not a single other receiving option can get seperation.

 

 

 

WTF is sherfield doing? square dancing with his guy? #firedorsey

[HappyDays]

What we're seeing the past two weeks is that Josh Allen playing conservative "within the scheme" QB is not good enough to get it done. The only time we have moved the ball and scored the past two weeks is when he makes a "hero ball" throw that ends up being a huge net positive play. The Jags and Giants figured out that if you run mostly man coverage against this mediocre group of weapons, as long as you don't let Diggs singlehandedly beat you the Bills offense is easy to stop.

 

If the solution still is "let Josh run" that represents a failure of the front office and the coaching. Allen running should be a supplemental piece of our offense, not the motor that makes it run. For three years now we have failed to give him legitimate help behind Diggs and failed to run a creative offense that schemes receivers open. Dorsey is totally lost, but this problem honestly still existed when Daboll was here too. Ultimately Beane and McDermott are the ones responsible. They own this mess. They have to fix it.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

39 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

For the Gabe Davis is fine as our #2 crowd —- Cover 1. 

I know just look at that play…. He’s not even trying to get open with his hand on his hip, standing next to Harris …

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

What we're seeing the past two weeks is that Josh Allen playing conservative "within the scheme" QB is not good enough to get it done. The only time we have moved the ball and scored the past two weeks is when he makes a "hero ball" throw that ends up being a huge net positive play. The Jags and Giants figured out that if you run mostly man coverage against this mediocre group of weapons, as long as you don't let Diggs singlehandedly beat you the Bills offense is easy to stop.

 

If the solution still is "let Josh run" that represents a failure of the front office and the coaching. Allen running should be a supplemental piece of our offense, not the motor that makes it run. For three years now we have failed to give him legitimate help behind Diggs and failed to run a creative offense that schemes receivers open. Dorsey is totally lost, but this problem honestly still existed when Daboll was here too. Ultimately Beane and McDermott are the ones responsible. They own this mess. They have to fix it.

It was less of a mess when they had a real slot receiver capable of running option routes all game long and who had the QB's trust - Beasley. They need Kincaid to become that player sooner rather than later.

[Goin Breakdown]

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

That Jets game is going to have a legacy…. That was a terrible loss

They lost Rodgers and we lost exciting Josh. 

[Herc11]

I've been saying the same thing since game one this season. You have to let Josh be Josh. They are essentially taking away the element that makes him special. His ability to play off script is the weapon that frustrates defenses and our coaching staff wants to handicap him by taking that element out of his game.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

What we're seeing the past two weeks is that Josh Allen playing conservative "within the scheme" QB is not good enough to get it done. The only time we have moved the ball and scored the past two weeks is when he makes a "hero ball" throw that ends up being a huge net positive play. The Jags and Giants figured out that if you run mostly man coverage against this mediocre group of weapons, as long as you don't let Diggs singlehandedly beat you the Bills offense is easy to stop.

 

If the solution still is "let Josh run" that represents a failure of the front office and the coaching. Allen running should be a supplemental piece of our offense, not the motor that makes it run. For three years now we have failed to give him legitimate help behind Diggs and failed to run a creative offense that schemes receivers open. Dorsey is totally lost, but this problem honestly still existed when Daboll was here too. Ultimately Beane and McDermott are the ones responsible. They own this mess. They have to fix it.

Yes it's not a Dorsey problem, the offense experienced the exact same issues under Daboll...they are just magnified now that we lack real NFL caliber wideouts since Brown/Beasley/Sanders exits

 

People wanted to see check downs not understanding that checkdowns to marginal athletes result in a higher completion% and not much else

 

It really does come back to personnel imo

 

We have a below average TE who is theoretically supposed to be a third option which wouldn't be too bad except that our second option is Davis...and we wonder why Diggs is getting the ball 16x a game😂😂

[billieve420]

In the context of the game. Allen needs to know when to turn things up or dial it back. Essentially all that is being asked of him is to play smart and try not to get himself hurt.

Edited October 16, 2023 by billieve420

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

They lost Rodgers and we lost exciting Josh. 

Right😂😂now we have to settle for watching the guy who does things only 1 other QB can do as opposed to the guy who does things nobody else can do

 

We have got to realize how fortunate we are rn

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Yes it's not a Dorsey problem

 

I think it is partly a Dorsey problem though, just like it was a Daboll problem at times. If you look at the top offenses in football - Dolphins, 49ers, Lions - it looks like a different sport. I know the Dolphins and 49ers in particular have much better personnel than we do, but still the way those offenses run is a couple tiers higher than ours. All three have made limited QBs look like superstars. Meanwhile our offense led by an actual superstar QB puts up 0 points in 3 quarters against a bad defense. At a certain point how can you not lay some of the blame on Dorsey?

[4BillsintheBurgh]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Josh can get it to Quinton F'n Morris on what is clearly not a textbook route. He should be able to get it to just about anyone if they keep working to get free.