Justin Herbert's record after 52 starts vs others (couple former Bills show up)

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The highest paid defense in the NFL (in terms of cap dollars allocated in 2023).

 

What is Staley's problem?  He seems pretty intelligent and I think probably puts together a solid game plan....not sure.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

The greatest team ever in terms of sustained success at the highest level was dink and dunk to the RB's for the majority of their reign. They also sprinkled in slot guys like Welker and Edelman and then had the big receiver to go to in Gronk. Not too dissimilar to the Chargers offense with Allen being the possession slot guy and Mike Willaims the big, bodied receiver. 

 

Hasn't one of the Chargers biggest issues been injuries over the last few seasons? I believe Mike Williams missed the Jags WC game last year right because the idiot of a coach decided to play him the week before in a meaningless game. Mike Williams and Keenan Allen last year combined to miss 11 games. They have even been banged up on their o-line with Rashawn Slater missing all but 3 games last season. And their Center was out for three games. On defense Derwin James and Bosa are both notorious for missing a lot of games due to injury over the last few seasons. 

 

I don't think they ever had a running back go close to 100 catches in a season let along beyond it. I would also not call Welker or Edelman slot guys that they "sprinkled in." Those guys were the engines that made that offense go. They both averaged 11 yards per reception through their career. Eckler averages under 9. That's the point. Belichick also always had a deep threat guy even if that guy wasn't, beyond the Moss period, their "go to" receiver. At times last year the Chargers had no way at all to stretch the field. 

[SoTier]

8 hours ago, FireChans said:

I think Justin Herbert is a great QB being held back by putrid coaching moreso than just about anyone else in the league, but I also think he’s overrated. 
 

It’s kind of a conundrum. 

 

Oh, it's not just putrid coaching.   That would be too simple to account for the continual ineptitude of the Chargers over the last two decades.  Back in the early 2000s, the Chargers were loaded with talent, thanks especially to the Eli Manning trade.  They didn't have just a great QB in Philip Rivers, they had two, and the one they let walk away, Drew Brees, was even better.  They could steamroll teams during the regular season but couldn't win playoff games despite having plenty of talent.  For most of Rivers' career, the Chargers managed to lose key games with the same kind of blunders that they've made this season.  They've been doing it for 20 years.  The Chargers have changed players, coaches, GMs, cities, owners, stadiums -- and they still manage to "seize defeat from the jaws of victory".   The Chargers just "Charger".

[Breakout Squad]

6 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Maybe a bit, but its not his fault his defense choked away a 23 point 2nd half lead in the playoffs.

 

Now that's an epic defensive meltdown!

Still gotta move the chains and kill the clock. They failed epically 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think they ever had a running back go close to 100 catches in a season let along beyond it. I would also not call Welker or Edelman slot guys that they "sprinkled in." Those guys were the engines that made that offense go. They both averaged 11 yards per reception through their career. Eckler averages under 9. That's the point. Belichick also always had a deep threat guy even if that guy wasn't, beyond the Moss period, their "go to" receiver. At times last year the Chargers had no way at all to stretch the field. 

 

Keenan Allen is the comp to Welker and Edelman. Not Eckler. You are correct they never had one back get 100 catches like Eckler did last year. But A. that was a career year and not the norm for Eckler and B. The Pats did routinely have multiple backs combine for 70-100 catches on the year. They were more diverse out  of the back field with their personnel. 

 

Last year was a career worst year for Eckler in terms of ypr.  He was looking really good this year (7.3 yp rush and 11.8 yp reception) in admittedly a very small sample size before he got injured. 

 

Injuries again really hurting the Chargers already. 

[Yobogoya!]

I dunno I feel like the Chargers have done pretty well for a team that hasn't played a home game since 2016!

 

But seriously, however good Herbert is or isn't, that's a seriously crap-tacular franchise from the owner on down to the sideline. I can't imagine the culture in that locker room is much more than guys who are going out every week to collect a paycheck. 

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, FireChans said:

I think Justin Herbert is a great QB being held back by putrid coaching moreso than just about anyone else in the league, but I also think he’s overrated. 
 

It’s kind of a conundrum. 

Agree, I think the Chargers regret not letting Daboll work with him. But he is definitely over-rated. The Chargers, Giants and Browns will be strapped for years.

Edited September 22, 2023 by LABILLBACKER

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

it’s curious to me that Herbert really doesn’t ever run the ball unless forced to; no designed runs.  This is a guy who is probably Josh Allen’s equal as a runner.  I assume it’s because of injury concerns but this is a major part of his game that the chargers just ignore.

 

I think it is because Herbert lacks a lot of the agility that Allen has. Herbert doesn't come close to Allen in that regard. Herbert is more of a straight-line runner only. Allen is both a straight-line runner but can also has the agility and vision to get the most out of his runs. 

[H2o]

8 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Saw this stat earlier tonight about Justin Herberts record after 52 games.  And this is a guy making $262.5M and that since entering the NFL he has had a potent stable of weapons including Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Austin Ekeler, and more.

 

These are some of the QB's who have better records than him after 52 starts:

 

Mark Sanchez:  31-21

Andy Dalton:  31-21

Mitch Trubisky:  29-23

Carson Wentz:  28-24

Teddy Bridgewater:  28-24

Baker Mayfield:  27-25

Matt Cassel:  27-25

Tyrod Taylor:  26-25-1

______________________________

Justin Herbert:  25-27

 

I know that W/L records are not all on a QB...but that is a pretty pitiful record for a guy making $262.5M and playing with the kind of weapons he has had around him.  

 

Just sayin'

Good morning gentlemen, and ladies. Long time no see. 

 

On to the Herbert debate. I like Herbert. Good QB, and the market is what it is for good QB's these days. Can't really fault him, or his agent, for maximizing his value. It's not like he's Daniel Jones or anything. He has had some solid weapons around him since he's been in the league with Ekeler, Allen, Williams, and whatever option at TE. His numbers have been really good every year. In 2021 he threw for over 5000yds. Last year he threw for over 4700yds. He has a cannon arm, and is pretty smart with the football. One thing I have noticed about Herbert is he just doesn't seem to have that "it" factor about him. You could see it in Josh from that first start against Minnesota. I have never seen that same fire, or felt like Herbert was the same type of leader of men that Josh is. And people are right, it does seem like he disappears at times or shrinks in the moment. In the end, I'm still glad Miami took Tua over Herbert. I'd hate to see him twice a year with that stable of weapons around him.

 

Brandon Staley, however, has to be one of the worst head coaches in the league imo. He's had questionable call after questionable call, game after game for 3 years now. The icing on the cake was the blown 27-0 lead last year in the Playoffs. Now this year, in the juggernaut that is the AFC, they have started off 0-2. I don't see how he still has his job tbh. I would imagine he'll be canned at some point during or after the season if he doesn't right the ship really quick. The main issue I have with Staley is how their defense constantly looks, being DC is his background. I believe he is truly the one holding the Chargers back at this point. 

[mannc]

10 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I think it is because Herbert lacks a lot of the agility that Allen has. Herbert doesn't come close to Allen in that regard. Herbert is more of a straight-line runner only. Allen is both a straight-line runner but can also has the agility and vision to get the most out of his runs. 

I'm not sure I agree with that.  I think it's because Herbert's not as physically tough as Allen, even though they are the same size.  He was injured a couple times at Oregon on designed runs.  After that, Oregon kept him in the pocket and he was not as effective.  I have not seen him run any designed runs with the Chargers.

Edited September 22, 2023 by mannc

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

People love Herbert because he has such a silky smooth throwing motion. 

[uninja]

9 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

The Chargers are perennial under-performers. In 2010 they had the league's top offense and defense yet missed the playoffs.

 

That 2010 Chargers squad is the proverbial case study for why special teams play DOES matter.

Edited September 22, 2023 by uninja

[Scott7975]

I think that franchise is just cursed.  They've had Brees, Phillips, and now Herbert with varying talent and a bunch of different coaches.  Nothing but choke artists. LIke it never changes. They just find ways to lose no matter who is there.  I also don't think Herbert is on Allen, Mahomes level. He is good but I don't think he is there.  Something is missing from his game. LIke he doesn't have the drive to win or something.

[CincyBillsFan]

Herbert increasingly reminds me of Cousins:  very good QB who puts up great stats but in the end the results don't seem to match the production.

[julian]

43 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think they ever had a running back go close to 100 catches in a season let along beyond it. I would also not call Welker or Edelman slot guys that they "sprinkled in." Those guys were the engines that made that offense go. They both averaged 11 yards per reception through their career. Eckler averages under 9. That's the point. Belichick also always had a deep threat guy even if that guy wasn't, beyond the Moss period, their "go to" receiver. At times last year the Chargers had no way at all to stretch the field. 

I respect the effort you’re making to lay blame at the feet of his weapons and I agree with most of what you’re saying. I had Herbert ranked #3 going into the season because of the talent he possesses but I’m ready to call a spade a spade.

 

 Kirk Cousins is starting to look like the career comparison, amazing stats but unable/unwilling to elevate those around them in crunch time. I’ve been saying the last 2 years Staley is garbage.

 

 Get a new offensive coach in there, one where the rb check down game is your last read and not your first, and see if the kid has more in him, they paid him so they need to do more to help him.

[fergie's ire]

8 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

geez. Every year since Rivers they're hyped up and talented and continue to underperform every year, pretty unbelievable 

Since?  I would include those Rivers years as well.  They may have made the playoffs a couple of times, but almost always underperform.  Every year it seems like I hear THIS year the Chargers are going to challenge...but then they don't.  I seem to remember one year they had something like a 3 game division lead with 4 to play and lost it.  Just the Chargers being Chargery.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

26 minutes ago, mannc said:

I'm not sure I agree with that.  I think it's because Herbert's not as physically tough as Allen, even though they are the same size.  He was injured a couple times at Oregon on designed runs.  After that, Oregon kept him in the pocket and he was not as effective.  I have not seen him run any designed runs with the Chargers.

I agree that toughness is one factor. But Allen had the ability to turn defensive players around, break their ankles with Mike moves and hurdle them. For his size Allen is incredibly agile. 

[nedboy7]

This proves Tyrod was the real deal.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, julian said:

I respect the effort you’re making to lay blame at the feet of his weapons and I agree with most of what you’re saying. I had Herbert ranked #3 going into the season because of the talent he possesses but I’m ready to call a spade a spade.

 

 Kirk Cousins is starting to look like the career comparison, amazing stats but unable/unwilling to elevate those around them in crunch time. I’ve been saying the last 2 years Staley is garbage.

 

 Get a new offensive coach in there, one where the rb check down game is your last read and not your first, and see if the kid has more in him, they paid him so they need to do more to help him.

 

I'm not absolving Herbert of blame. I am just contradicting the "potent stable of weapons" narrative. In my opinion if you want to rank the issues with the Chargers they go:

 

1. Defensive performance;

2. Head Coach (who has some blame for #1 obviously);

3. Receiving weapons - or more precisely the makeup thereof;

4. Justin Herbert's inability to put complete games together. 

 

He is "on the list" he just isn't super high up it. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Yobogoya! said:

I dunno I feel like the Chargers have done pretty well for a team that hasn't played a home game since 2016!

 

But seriously, however good Herbert is or isn't, that's a seriously crap-tacular franchise from the owner on down to the sideline. I can't imagine the culture in that locker room is much more than guys who are going out every week to collect a paycheck. 

Funny how everyone neglects to start at the top.  Spanos.  Spanos. Spanos. Spanos. And more Spanos.  
 

Telesco, at the helm for all these years, has been solid in terms of acquiring talent.  Too bad talent doesn’t mean crap if you don’t have a coach.  His neglect of the HC position has put his talent at a disadvantage.  Spanos has allowed Telesco to neglect the HC position.  No accountability.  No success 

[TheFunPolice]

Herbert might have the misfortune of being good enough that he is burdened with mediocre to poor coaching his entire career.

 

Win just enough that you can't get rid of the HC but always be held back

 

Staley is a terrible HC, IMO. His "everything you know about football is wrong" approach is cute when it works and straight up stupid when it doesn't, which is more often.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Guy blew a 27-0 deficit to the freakin Jags who squeaked in the playoffs because of the Titans QB injuries. He also blew a game against the Raiders to make the playoffs the year before. Herbert is routinely mentioned as an elite QB, but I just don’t see it. I see the talent for sure, but not the grit or killer instinct of a guy like Mahomes or Allen. Herbert has a group of skill position players that rival the 49ers. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[TheFunPolice]

I blame his terrible HC, whose approach is the more reckless the decision the better. Once in a while it works and he's a "genius" but more often the odds prevail.

 

Herbert will lead them to enough wins and overcome Staley's blunders just enough for him to have the Staley anchor holding him down most of his career. And Staley is a defensive specialist, who can't seem to build an elite unit with Bosa and Mack on the edges.

 

Can't fire a "winning" HC. The Chargers of all teams, who fired Marty after a 14-2 season, are the ones with that mentality. 

 

Hey, good news for us though! Having Staley as the HC takes one potential contender out of the mix. 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Herbert might have the misfortune of being good enough that he is burdened with mediocre to poor coaching his entire career.

 

Win just enough that you can't get rid of the HC but always be held back

 

Staley is a terrible HC, IMO. His "everything you know about football is wrong" approach is cute when it works and straight up stupid when it doesn't, which is more often.

 

 

He’s hilarious because he clearly got bullied out of doing it. He’s much more conservative now, and that’s clearly the wrong way to go 

[TheFunPolice]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

He’s hilarious because he clearly got bullied out of doing it. He’s much more conservative now, and that’s clearly the wrong way to go 

 

Agreed....He's a disaster. He'll blow 2-3 games every year with idiotic coaching blunders, plus his defense stinks and that's supposed to be his specialty. 

 

That said, a lot of his "smart" moves cost the Chargers games. There's a reason that (insert "boring" football coach name here) would punt the ball or play field position. Because it works most of the time. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[Process]

Herbert is tough to figure out. He has all the tools. You watch him, and he looks like an elite QB that every team would love to have. But he just doesn't win. 

 

His coaches have sucked and are a huge part of it. 

 

But you're up 27-0 in the playoffs. Just win the game. It shouldn't be hard. 

 

I don't know. 

[Mango]

10 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

He seems like great QB to have as backup but not one to be paid $262.5M.

Sort of reminds me of a more athletic Andy Dalton. Good enough that you kinda sorta have to pay him QB money because moving on is too much of a risk. 

[Albany,n.y.]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah I agree the coaching is a joke...I am stunned Staley wasn't fired after weeks 1 and 2.  Its like he has majored in how to lose games.  Like I said, not putting it all on Herbert by any means, but geesh, I was shocked when I saw he actually has a losing record given the amount of talent he has around him and the level he has played it.  Seems like bad coaching or not, he should at least be over .500 after 52 games.

 

I mean Trubisky had even worse coaching in Chicago, they didn't even try and develop him, and he had no talent around him there...but he has a winning record and took Chicago to the playoffs.  

 

So was just a little surprised to see just how little he and the Chargers have won despite a loaded offense.  

Worst coaching west of Chicago.  

 

I had it with Staley in 2021.  I bet the over on the Chargers wins based on Herbert being in his 2nd season & I figured anyone would be an upgrade over Anthony Lynn.  I tiered the bets so that if they won a certain number of games I'd break even & more games I'd win money.  After a quick start where I was very confident that I'd win all the bets, I watched Staley make some wild decisions that cost the Chargers multiple games.  I lost all but the bet with the lowest win total that was a push.  Years later, Staley still has never learned to coach.  I structured the bet similar to what I had done in 2019 with the Bills.  After watching Josh as a rookie, I was confident that the Bills would win around 10 games & make the playoffs in his sophomore year because of improvements on the O-line & WRs.  I tiered the bets to break even at 8-8, and win it all if they won 10 & made the playoffs.  I cashed every future bet that year & had the same theory on Herbert's 2nd season.  

 

 

Herbert will win a lot of games once they get rid of Staley.  

[FireChans]

38 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

Agreed....He's a disaster. He'll blow 2-3 games every year with idiotic coaching blunders, plus his defense stinks and that's supposed to be his specialty. 

 

That said, a lot of his "smart" moves cost the Chargers games. There's a reason that (insert "boring" football coach name here) would punt the ball or play field position. Because it works most of the time. 

I’m convinced that someone up top told him to stop or he was gonna be fired. I don’t mind aggression, particularly against great teams where you need a little boost to actually get the win.

 

But this guy will go for it on 4th and 3 at his own 40 in the second Q, then in the 4th Q, he will punt on 4th and 2 on the opponent's 40. If you want to be an analytics guy, be an analytics guy all the time. He's not really an analytics guy at all, he's a "zig when everyone thinks you're gonna zag" guy, which is just a shade away from being an idiot. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So a few things on this...  

 

First, I have said consistently that even within games Justin Herbert is streaky. His 3rd Quarter stats in particular are poor and I see too many games of his where he goes into a strange lull. Kinda like we had with Josh in 2019... but that was Josh's second year. It isna recurring issue with Herbert that still shows itself. 

 

But second, I disagree his weapons are that great. He has two big slow guys and a scat back (a very good scat back but still). It was a major problem for the Chargers last year and has been so far this year.... they don't separate and the have nobody to get deep and take the top off. So defenses just sit on them. Allen is still a crafty route runner but is basically a big slot only at this point he offers almost no downfield threat outside. Mike Williams is Gabe Davis but with a top 10 draft tag. He is a big body, decent in the redzone and you can use him in physical 1v1s on the boundary. But I actually think Gabe offers more deep threat. They drafted Johnston who has 2 catches for 9 yards thus far... they need to try and incorporate him quickly because at least he offers some deep speed (though his game has other holes). And they drafted the wrong guy IMO. Tom Telesco likes big so it was always gonna be Johnston or Kincaid but they should have drafted Jordan Addison. He was the EXACT player that offense was crying out for.

 

He also has some of the worst coaching in the NFL. Brandon Staley is a defensive coach. And the Chargers have more 2023 cap dollars invested in defense than every other team in the league. For their defense to be this horrible with Bosa, Mack, Kendricks, Jackson and James is unforgiveable.

 

So yea Justin Herbert deserves some questioning. He hasn't yet taken that step from super talented playmaking QB to elite level performance QB but his weapons and his coaching are major issues. The one excuse he doesn't have is protection. That oline is stacked.

Tom Telesco, another St Francis product, just like last years Wonderkid Brian Dabol who is now heading a disaster in NYC.

[Buffalo03]

12 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Saw this stat earlier tonight about Justin Herberts record after 52 games.  And this is a guy making $262.5M and that since entering the NFL he has had a potent stable of weapons including Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Austin Ekeler, and more.

 

These are some of the QB's who have better records than him after 52 starts:

 

Mark Sanchez:  31-21

Andy Dalton:  31-21

Mitch Trubisky:  29-23

Carson Wentz:  28-24

Teddy Bridgewater:  28-24

Baker Mayfield:  27-25

Matt Cassel:  27-25

Tyrod Taylor:  26-25-1

______________________________

Justin Herbert:  25-27

 

I know that W/L records are not all on a QB...but that is a pretty pitiful record for a guy making $262.5M and playing with the kind of weapons he has had around him.  

 

Just sayin'

It's coaching. It's clear watching Herbert play he's franchise guy

[Buffalo03]

11 hours ago, Nelius said:

Been banging the Herbert is overrated drum since early last year. He's very good at providing wooden 285yd-1td performances. Any more however is rare, and I've yet to see him really put the team on his back. Kind of disappointing really. A couple of years ago many assumed he and Josh would clash as mega-QBs but I'm just not seeing the same tier in Herbert.

 

Healthy Tua is probably better at this point, or right there with him.

The dude threw for 4300 yards 31 TDs and 10 picks as a rookie and that was missing the first game of the season which Tyrod started and played. He threw for 5000 yards 38 TDs and 15 picks in his second year. Those are elite QB numbers. He was kind of mediocre last year while still throwing for 4700 yards. but I blame coaching for this. Not him. I don't think he's overrated at all

 

[Einstein]

12 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

but geesh, I was shocked when I saw he actually has a losing record given the amount of talent he has around him and the level he has played it.  

 

But Herbert has utilized the talent around him. His offense was top 10 last year in yards and passing. 

 

His defense, meanwhile, was 20th in yards and 22nd in points given up. 

 

The Chargers aren't losing because of Herbert.

They're losing games 36-34 and 27-24.

 

[DrBob806]

While I tend to agree, he's still pretty darn good. 

 

Like the LA Rams a couple years ago, don't be surprised to see the Chargers in the Super Bowl. The NFL needs to justify 2 teams in LA.

2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

 

Can't fire a "winning" HC. The Chargers of all teams, who fired Marty after a 14-2 season, are the ones with that mentality. 

 

 

 

 

 

Marty wanted Drew Brees, not Rivers as his QB, so that's why they canned him. Turns out Marty was right, Brees was the better QB.

 

 

[Paup 1995MVP]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think the weapons are as good as the names suggest, Eckler apart, and then it comes down to @BADOLBILZ's point about even when you have a really good receiving back if you have an offense designed to throw to your receiving back a ton that is going to turn you into a dink and dunk offense whether you wanna be or not. Eckler's average yards per reception was a pitiful 6.7 yards last year (he was pretty high on that metric earlier in his career). Compare that to Cole Beasley's first two years as Josh's "outlet" receiver here in the slot where he was over 11 yards per catch. If your outlet receiver is a back rather than a slot or tight end it almost always means you are sacrificing yardage. 

The Chargers offense can score points.  They move the football.  Watch the Dolphins and Titan games.  The offense did not lose them the games.  Their defense is overrated.  Bosa and Mack are names.  But neither is dominant game in and game out.  Mack used to be.  But no longer.  And Bosa always seems to be nicked up or injured.  (He is certainly not at the level of his brother)  Their secondary was atrocious against the Dolphins.  The middle was open all game.   

 

Herbert is kind of a wimpy version of Josh Allen.  He doesn't run like Josh, lead like Josh, or improvise on the move like Josh.  But the guy can still throw the football.  Reminds me of a poor man's version of Dan Marino the way he passes the ball.  

 

On a more general note.  The NFL is not the offensive game that it was turning into a few years ago.  There are a handful of really dynamic QB's.  The majority are decent to *****.  Just look at the Steelers-Browns game from Monday nite.  It was a very entertaining game.  But Watson and Pickett were mediocre at best, and at some points downright awful.  That's what you get from most QB's in today's NFL.  

[TheBrownBear]

9 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

But Herbert has utilized the talent around him. His offense was top 10 last year in yards and passing. 

 

His defense, meanwhile, was 20th in yards and 22nd in points given up. 

 

The Chargers aren't losing because of Herbert.

They're losing games 36-34 and 27-24.

 

I'm with you. The argument against him doesn't hold water when you consider they've consistently been a top-10 passing offense with Herbert.  He has the most 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives in the NFL since he was drafted. 

 

The underwhelming win/loss record has almost entirely been poor coaching (and maybe karma...haha).

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

The Chargers offense can score points.  They move the football.  Watch the Dolphins and Titan games.  The offense did not lose them the games.  Their defense is overrated.  Bosa and Mack are names.  But neither is dominant game in and game out.  Mack used to be.  But no longer.  And Bosa always seems to be nicked up or injured.  (He is certainly not at the level of his brother)  Their secondary was atrocious against the Dolphins.  The middle was open all game.   

 

Herbert is kind of a wimpy version of Josh Allen.  He doesn't run like Josh, lead like Josh, or improvise on the move like Josh.  But the guy can still throw the football.  Reminds me of a poor man's version of Dan Marino the way he passes the ball.  

 

On a more general note.  The NFL is not the offensive game that it was turning into a few years ago.  There are a handful of really dynamic QB's.  The majority are decent to *****.  Just look at the Steelers-Browns game from Monday nite.  It was a very entertaining game.  But Watson and Pickett were mediocre at best, and at some points downright awful.  That's what you get from most QB's in today's NFL.  

 

They can and I agree the defense is by far their main issue. But the weapons they have ARE overrated. Keenan Allen isn't what he was and Mike Williams has always been a bit overrated. Personally I have always been a bit of a "Khalil Mack is overrated" guy too. I don't think he is now. I think most people accept what he is now. But at his peak he was overhyped IMO.  

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They can and I agree the defense is by far their main issue. But the weapons they have ARE overrated. Keenan Allen isn't what he was and Mike Williams has always been a bit overrated. Personally I have always been a bit of a "Khalil Mack is overrated" guy too. I don't think he is now. I think most people accept what he is now. But at his peak he was overhyped IMO.  

Keenan Allen is on pace for 120 catches 1600 yards and 17tds

[ganesh]

13 hours ago, FireChans said:

I think Justin Herbert is a great QB being held back by putrid coaching moreso than just about anyone else in the league, but I also think he’s overrated. 
 

It’s kind of a conundrum. 

'great' at the beginning of the sentence and 'overrated' at the end of the sentence !!! 

 

Herbert and team are being held back by their coaching staff's inability; somewhat similar in trajectory (but less) are the Bills !

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They can and I agree the defense is by far their main issue. But the weapons they have ARE overrated. Keenan Allen isn't what he was and Mike Williams has always been a bit overrated. Personally I have always been a bit of a "Khalil Mack is overrated" guy too. I don't think he is now. I think most people accept what he is now. But at his peak he was overhyped IMO.  

The Bills Mafia would kill to have Allen or Williams run routes with Diggs !

[Chicken Boo]

12 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

geez. Every year since Rivers they're hyped up and talented and continue to underperform every year, pretty unbelievable 

 

It's like a curse.  Definitely weird.