Will DeAndre Hopkins be available this offseason?

[Buffalo03]

5 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Why would we give up more for Hopkins now than the Cardinals did 4 years ago?  Hard pass if that’s what they want.  Go get Jeudy for the same price or trade up in the draft to get your WR at a controlled cost. 

To be fair, Bill o Brien was a moron for letting Hopkins go for what he did

[Rigotz]

12 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

The way people over value draft picks is embarrassing. A 2nd and a 3rd for one of the 15 best WRs in football? Nah let’s keep them. It’s nothing to piss away those picks on rotational Dlineman that give you almost nothing year after year….yeah that’s no big deal, reload and try again. But here’s a guy that can probably help you win a Super Bowl? And we are thinking that’s too much? Come on.

Yeah! And throw in our 1st while you’re at it because we don’t always hit on those either!

 

I’d rather have an old $20M/yr player than a young $5M/yr player on a 5 year contract! It’s not like you can get those in Free Agency for free- wait a sec…

[JaCrispy]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I wonder if when the Cardinals realize they won't get that if they will call us back in a few weeks or maybe draft night to do something. It was said we were the leader and had the best offer on the table. Just because it's not done now, doesn't mean it won't be a month from now

Great- 200 more pages…😉

[Sherlock Holmes]

1 minute ago, JaCrispy said:

Great- 200 more pages…😉

Why not 5 more 100 page seperate threads all talking about the same thing

[Buffalo_Stampede]

36 minutes ago, papazoid said:

ESPN analytics five thirty eight ranks gabe davis the 100th best WR in NFL......thats like a bottom end #3 wr

 

the have Diggs ranked 4th best overall

 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nfl-receiver-rankings/

 

the bills clearly need a wr2

Look where Deonte Harty ranked in 2021. 😳

[The Wiz]

55 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

To be fair, Bill o Brien was a moron for letting Hopkins go for what he did

Wasn't that basically his "F you" to the Texans because he knew he was on the way out?

Edited March 25, 2023 by The Wiz

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

1 minute ago, Rigotz said:

Yeah! And throw in our 1st while you’re at it because we don’t always hit on those either!

 

I’d rather have an old $20M/yr player than a young $5M/yr player on a 5 year contract! It’s not like you can get those in Free Agency for free- wait a sec…

Our first round pick last year sat behind a below avg 7th round nobody for most of the year. And the sad part is Elam was probably the best corner we had and the coaches didn’t care. All these recent high picks have been game changers. So much so that we have to use constant rotation to get any production. Also had to go out and get Von Miller to mask all the misses. You think the guy we get at 27 is going to be better than Hopkins? Even throughout the length of their rookie deal? Also I’m not asking to trade a first, I’m just humoring the idea.

[Billz4ever]

16 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

This has Jeudy (tied 24) and Hopkins (26) ranked pretty much the same. Jeudy gets open more and slightly better yac. But Hopkins has unreal hands, among the best in the league. The issue Bills receivers had last year was drops

And considering Josh is throwing on the run quite often, the throw might not be exactly pinpoint accurate every time.  Get the ball in the vicinity of the receiver and allow a receiver with the hands of someone like DHop to make a play on the ball.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Billz4ever

[cgg716]

16 minutes ago, H2o said:

No we don't. We still need to add to the defense and the OL. We only have 6 picks. If we give up that for Hopkins, AND have to find a way to navigate his salary, we'd be in trouble. 

Since we’ve drafted Allen. We’ve used a 1st round pick on an LB, 2 on the DL. And one on a CB. 4 out of 5. As well as two more DLs with 2nd rounders. And an absurd amount for Miller. KC and Cinci don’t need to add to the Defense. And I’ll take Dhop over some rotation DL

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

The way people over value draft picks is embarrassing. A 2nd and a 3rd for one of the 15 best WRs in football? Nah let’s keep them. It’s nothing to piss away those picks on rotational Dlineman that give you almost nothing year after year….yeah that’s no big deal, reload and try again. But here’s a guy that can probably help you win a Super Bowl? And we are thinking that’s too much? Come on.

Im all for Offense, and Allen is not Stafford - so I’m not saying we’d become the Rams, but this is why the Rams are in a 2-3 year rebuild after going for it.  
 

Trading tons of high picks for massive contracts. 
 

And you can say “well, they won..” Ok.. sure.. they also didn’t play in the current AFC. 
 

We desperately need Beane to hit on cheap talent this draft.  Soo.. let’s trade away both Day 2 picks and eat 19M?  
 

So we have RD1 and Three Day 3 picks… in a Draft where the Chiefs have like 11. 
 

We’re likely adding void years onto Hopkins contract and/or trading Oliver to free up 10M and get back a Day 3 pick. 
 

So now we have no money and still could use RT competition, a couple DT’s, a LB and S/CB depth depending on what we do with Benford. 
 

Id LOVE Hopkins on this team, but not to the extent where I want Beane to get straight up laughed at my trading away multiple Day 2 picks and eating that entire contract.   That’s insanity… and the Cardinals GM is likely not making a great first impression amongst his peers. 

[Magox]

51 minutes ago, Magox said:

Arizona is holding out, they don’t have to make a deal today.  But they will lessen their demands before the draft and someone will get Hopkins most likely for a 3rd and 5th sort of value.

 

Also, I found this clip to be interesting.  Chris Brown who many believe to be a sort of mouthpiece for the Bills organization flat out saying that the Bills need to get a legitimate #2 WR.

 

 

 

Kinda like I was saying

 

 

 

[JaCrispy]

Highest I would go is a 6th this year plus a 3rd next year…

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Beane to Jerry Juedy: “You up?”

 

LOL. Speaking of which, there are some posters in this thread who need to take a nap.

 

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Look where Deonte Harty ranked in 2021. 😳

 

At his press conference last week Beane said that they acquired Harty with the idea that he would be their 4th wideout.

 

 

[mathja]

How much of the contract would the Cardinals eat? Could they lower the cap hit for the bills significantly? I would think doing that is worth a higher pick. They would be accommodating the bills and their cap situation.

Edited March 25, 2023 by mathja

[Billz4ever]

7 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

Kinda like I was saying

 

 

 

 

Considering the Cooks trade was for a 2023 5th round and a 2024 6th round, AZ is crazy if they think they are going to get anything better than a 3rd at best for him.  Especially if what's being reported is true that basically no other teams are interested any longer besides us.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Mr. WEO]

4 more pages to surpass the OBJ thread...

[SCBills]

5 minutes ago, mathja said:

How much of the contract would the Cardinals eat? Could they lower the cap hit for the bills significantly? I would think doing that is worth a higher pick. They would be accommodating the bills and their cap situation.

But that’s the issue .. reports make it sound like they want multiple Day 2 picks and won’t take on any of the salary.  
 

If I had to guess, Beane’s offer is something like a 5th and next years 6th if AZ unloads the entire cap hit on us, up to a 4th and next years 5th if they eat some cap.  
 

Using Cooks trade, acknowledging that Hopkins is a much better player.  

 

Id be surprised if Beane, or anyone, ever entertains a Day 2 pick when, even if they eat some cap, the receiving team still has to accommodate 10M+ somehow. 
 

Edited March 25, 2023 by SCBills

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

4 more pages to surpass the OBJ thread...

[PetermansRedemption]

Has Hopkins been acquired yet?

[Virgil]

49 minutes ago, TOboy said:

I’d do a 2, but I actually think a 3 gets this done. Would be even better if it were from next year’s draft. 
 

This leak is all posturing. 

 

I'd do a 3rd at the most, but I'm hoping it doesn't come to that.  We need OT and MLB with our first two picks.  We swing that and Hopkins, the offseason is won.  Everything else is details and depth

[HamSandwhich]

13 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Has Hopkins been acquired yet?

Is he even available is the real question 

[wppete]

26 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

4 more pages to surpass the OBJ thread...

But will it ever surpass the Great Zach Ertz thread???

[Low Positive]

Just now, wppete said:

But will it ever surpass the Great Zach Ertz thread???

The only connection is that the Cards do monumentally stupid things and then have to do other stupid things to undo the stupid things that they did before. 

[H2o]

34 minutes ago, cgg716 said:

Since we’ve drafted Allen. We’ve used a 1st round pick on an LB, 2 on the DL. And one on a CB. 4 out of 5. As well as two more DLs with 2nd rounders. And an absurd amount for Miller. KC and Cinci don’t need to add to the Defense. And I’ll take Dhop over some rotation DL

The way the draft picks have been spent is obvious. But we have holes to fill and a cap hit of that sort screws us over and takes away two potentially impact players. Let's not forget we need a MLB and still a couple more pieces for the OL. We're also thin without Lawson or Phillips. You name these other teams, but neglect to mention what they already have. Both have OL's better than ours. Both have an overall skill group better than ours. Lots of changes coming this year though, already starting to lose some players. In the end, back to the topic of Hopkins, it doesn't matter anyway because Beane won't do it for that price. 

[Matt_In_NH]

9 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

I’m fine with letting Beane do things his way, but so far his way hasn’t gotten us anywhere. How long do we wait? 2 more years? 5 more years? When does his strategic methods become accepted as a failure? 

For me a 7-9 team is the same thing as a 14-3 team that didn’t win a super bowl. See that’s where our ideological differences are. You accept 2nd and 3rd place as an accomplishment. If you want to be a fan of playoffs, then I can’t stop you. 

 

What is miserable about want to win a super bowl, and accepting anything less as failure? The whole point of playing NFL football is to win a super bowl, that goes for any competition. I guess it means being miserable if you don’t recognize participation trophies. 

 

 

The bolded is what I was responding to not "wanting a super bowl".   I guess  your take seems kind of extreme to me.  There is nothing wrong with wanting the team to win the Super Bowl, I don't think there is a single member of Bills Mafia who does not want that.  However, just because they dont win the Superbowl in any one year does not mean the organization is inept and a failure.  I do think this team is at the point that there is only one thing left to really accomplish and that is a Super Bowl.  They have established an ability to find talent more than other teams, they do have a coaching staff that puts out a great offense and a great defenses routinely.   They have completely changed the culture of the organization which is very hard to do.   Yes they have not gotten it done in the playoffs for one reason or another (coaching IMO) and they need to find a way to get past that.  I also think the current staff should stay in place, they need to improve and they at least say that is what their focus is.

 

I just think the amount of joy/fun over the last three years without a SB win has been great to experience.  We have one of the best teams who will be competing for the SB year in and year out.  To say a Dick Jauron 7-9 season is equal to a 13-3 season where the three games were lost by like 8 points is is a miserable perspective.   There are no guarantees in life, we have a great window here to root for this team, if your perspective is Superbowl or collasal failure, you are signing up to b miserable most of the time.  Take a step back an smell the roses, enjoy the ride, it's been good and hopefully will get better.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

40 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

4 more pages to surpass the OBJ thread...

I got you, I know the how cast the thread exploder spell.

 

*Waves wand*

 

TREMAINE-ious EDMUNDS-ious 

[TheBeaneBandit]

Contemplating sending death threats to the Cardinals GM.... I'll take one for the team what do you guys think 😆😆😆?

[Turbo44]

16 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

Is he even available is the real question 

Absolutely he's available.  Problem is, as I see it, is the Cardinal's GM is new and doesn't want to be perceived as "fleeced" in his first deal.  

 

I say sign Calais Campbell and an offer of Oliver and a 4th or 5th for DHOP will get it done. Then sign Bobby Wagner and offseason, other than draft, is real ands spectacular

 

Salary Cap implications:

Oliver - 10m

Campbell - +4m

Wagner +7m

DHOP with salary retention and resturcture +7m

 

Net gain to cap of +8M and we're under cap by about $11m right now, I think?  That leaves enough to sign draft picks, though Beane will probably restructure someone.  I say add a year to Hyde's deal (to align him with Poyer's contract) and he could free up about $4m there

[Roundybout]

4 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Contemplating sending death threats to the Cardinals GM.... I'll take one for the team what do you guys think 😆😆😆?

Can’t go wrong with some old fashioned magazine clipping random letters 

[HamSandwhich]

Just now, Turbo44 said:

Absolutely he's available.  Problem is, as I see it, is the Cardinal's GM is new and doesn't want to be perceived as "fleeced" in his first deal.  

 

I say sign Calais Campbell and an offer of Oliver and a 4th or 5th for DHOP will get it done. Then sign Bobby Wagner and offseason, other than draft, is real ands spectacular

 

Salary Cap implications:

Oliver - 10m

Campbell - +4m

Wagner +7m

DHOP with salary retention and resturcture +7m

 

Net gain to cap of +8M and we're under cap by about $11m right now, I think?  That leaves enough to sign draft picks, though Beane will probably restructure someone.  I say add a year to Hyde's deal (to align him with Poyer's contract) and he could free up about $4m there

I don’t know man, I haven’t seen him on Snapchat or anything so I am skeptical

[TheBeaneBandit]

Just now, Roundybout said:

Can’t go wrong with some old fashioned magazine clipping random letters 

Well you know it's been a minute since the FBI kicked in my front door 😂

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I got you, I know the how cast the thread exploder spell.

 

*Waves wand*

 

TREMAINE-ious EDMUNDS-ious 

 

that bum is gone.  no more juice here.  his sycophants are spent...

[cba fan]

22 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

The only connection is that the Cards do monumentally stupid things and then have to do other stupid things to undo the stupid things that they did before. 

yeah they are like the O'Brian Texans West lol

6 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

Absolutely he's available.  Problem is, as I see it, is the Cardinal's GM is new and doesn't want to be perceived as "fleeced" in his first deal.  

 

I say sign Calais Campbell and an offer of Oliver and a 4th or 5th for DHOP will get it done. Then sign Bobby Wagner and offseason, other than draft, is real ands spectacular

 

Salary Cap implications:

Oliver - 10m

Campbell - +4m

Wagner +7m

DHOP with salary retention and resturcture +7m

 

Net gain to cap of +8M and we're under cap by about $11m right now, I think?  That leaves enough to sign draft picks, though Beane will probably restructure someone.  I say add a year to Hyde's deal (to align him with Poyer's contract) and he could free up about $4m there

a media guy had an article that restructured DHop with some void years could get his cap hit down for Bills to 4.5 or 4.7 this year. That would be amazing.

[Turbo44]

4 minutes ago, cba fan said:

yeah they are like the O'Brian Texans West lol

a media guy had an article that restructured DHop with some void years could get his cap hit down for Bills to 4.5 or 4.7 this year. That would be amazing.

Yep - I was being conservative with my +7m cap hit projection for DHOP as I don't know much salary the cardinals will be willing to retain (if any) and I'm not sure how much future cap implications Beane's willing to take on.  To get to 4.5 this year Beane would have to add to voidable years to the end of DHOPs restructure contract will high cap ramifications.

 

I think the Bills would love DHOP and DHOP would love the Bills but there are significant obstacles in a trade scenario:

1. Draft picks - Will the Cardinal's ask become reasonable and will a current Bills player be added as a sweetener?

2. Are other teams interested in DHOP?

3. Can Beane make the cap work and is he willing to?

4. Will Pegula be willing to open his wallet again for a DHOP and probably another player restructure?  Every restructure where salary turns into a signing bonus, Pegula has to pay the whole lump sum bonus upfront. 

 

A lot of obstacles which indicates to me it probably won't happen.  The important thing here though is it seems Beane is not satisfied with the status quo at  WR? Diggs is a legitimate #1 but Davis is not a legit #2, he's an average to above average #3.  There are options for that #2 besided DHOP - Jeudy (probably too pricey), other WRs available in a trade that we haven't heard about and pick #27

[Jay_Fixit]

Just woke up. Is IronMaidenBills still acting like all members of The View?

[Bobby Hooks]

8 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

Yep - I was being conservative with my +7m cap hit projection for DHOP as I don't know much salary the cardinals will be willing to retain (if any) and I'm not sure how much future cap implications Beane's willing to take on.  To get to 4.5 this year Beane would have to add to voidable years to the end of DHOPs restructure contract will high cap ramifications.

 

I think the Bills would love DHOP and DHOP would love the Bills but there are significant obstacles in a trade scenario:

1. Draft picks - Will the Cardinal's ask become reasonable and will a current Bills player be added as a sweetener?

2. Are other teams interested in DHOP?

3. Can Beane make the cap work and is he willing to?

4. Will Pegula be willing to open his wallet again for a DHOP and probably another player restructure?  Every restructure where salary turns into a signing bonus, Pegula has to pay the whole lump sum bonus upfront. 

 

A lot of obstacles which indicates to me it probably won't happen.  The important thing here though is it seems Beane is not satisfied with the status quo at  WR? Diggs is a legitimate #1 but Davis is not a legit #2, he's an average to above average #3.  There are options for that #2 besided DHOP - Jeudy (probably too pricey), other WRs available in a trade that we haven't heard about and pick #27

Actually Davis is an average if not above average #2. Not many teams have a complimentary receiver like the Bengals and Dolphins. 
 

With that said would I love to add Nuk and get in that conversation with the Bengals and Dolphins? Yes, very much yes. 

[SCBills]

22 minutes ago, cba fan said:

yeah they are like the O'Brian Texans West lol

a media guy had an article that restructured DHop with some void years could get his cap hit down for Bills to 4.5 or 4.7 this year. That would be amazing.

The void years stuff is starting to make me cringe. 
 

I get that we haven’t really done much on that front, but with Von and Tre both on big deals coming off injury.. I don’t love the idea of doing too much on that front.  
 

Then again, the Jets are feeling just fine tacking on multiple 20M void years to Rodgers contract, so maybe the cap is going to go up that much. 

[Bobby Hooks]

11 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Just woke up. Is IronMaidenBills still acting like all members of The View?

Hey, do me a quick favor and go get your SHINEBOX!! 
 

I want to see them shoes DAZZLE!! 
 

NUK!!!! 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Bobby Hooks

[Buffalo03]

39 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

Absolutely he's available.  Problem is, as I see it, is the Cardinal's GM is new and doesn't want to be perceived as "fleeced" in his first deal.  

 

I say sign Calais Campbell and an offer of Oliver and a 4th or 5th for DHOP will get it done. Then sign Bobby Wagner and offseason, other than draft, is real ands spectacular

 

Salary Cap implications:

Oliver - 10m

Campbell - +4m

Wagner +7m

DHOP with salary retention and resturcture +7m

 

Net gain to cap of +8M and we're under cap by about $11m right now, I think?  That leaves enough to sign draft picks, though Beane will probably restructure someone.  I say add a year to Hyde's deal (to align him with Poyer's contract) and he could free up about $4m there

I'm not sure why we haven't added a year onto Hyde's deal. It makes so much sense. And then resign DaQuan to an extra 2 years or so. That will add more cap space without even having to restructure another deal and then find a way to part with Oliver

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, papazoid said:

ESPN analytics five thirty eight ranks gabe davis the 100th best WR in NFL......thats like a bottom end #3 wr

 

the have Diggs ranked 4th best overall

 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nfl-receiver-rankings/

 

the bills clearly need a wr2

 

I don't disagree with your conclusion, but any analytics tool that has Diontae Johnson as the 5th best pass catcher in football can safely be ignored.