Would the Bengals Defensive Blueprint Work Against Bills/Allen

[BillsGuyOutWest]

The Bengals dropping 8 into coverage seemed to do the trick again today against the Chiefs, just like in the playoffs last year. 

Would this work against the Bills and Allen?

 

I say no, because:

 

1. Although the Bills aren’t exactly the Titans, they are still have more of an overall power run ability than the Chiefs. The Chiefs did better today with 140 yards rushing, but it never seemed like there was ever any real play action threat or consistency. The Bengals let them run between the 20s and then clamped down when they needed to. 
 

2. Mahomes is an amazing scrambler (particularly sideline to sideline), whereas Allen is most dangerous as vertical runner. Further, when Allen takes off he can bowl over guys in space. Basically, you are doubling the running threat against that look with Allen’s ability to take off. 
 

I think the Bengals defense, especially  with their ends and linebackers, could cause problems other ways, but I don’t see them using the same game plan against the Bills. 
 

Finally, if my memory is correct I feel like the 8 man coverage package was something Belichick would mix in earlier in Allen’s career until the Allen eventually figured it all out. 

[Locomark]

On defense I know the Bengals have trouble when teams have a #1 go to WR, which the Chiefs do not have. 

On offense  I noticed Burrow threw numerous passes too easily through the spot that Tremaine would be that in no way would be completed against our defensive scheme or would have been tipped/picked. I also think our scheme holds up better against the swings they run to Perine since our LBs and Nickel are much better in coverage. Burrow does’t move of his spot much, which to me makes it easier to collapse the pocket or get a hand up. 
So I think they are a very dangerous team, but one I feel we match up against well if we can neutralize big plays, which to me is up to the play of Hamlin, and Dane/Elam/Rhoades. 
 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Locomark

[Dr.Sack]

The Bills defense is better so I imagine it would be a different game. 

[dma0034]

If the Bengals did that against the Bills the Bills would get 250 yards rushing. Bills, believe it or not, have a balanced offense but prefer to pass. If the Bengals want to give the Bills rushing yards the Bills will take it

[Dan Darragh]

1 hour ago, BillsGuyOutWest said:

2. Mahomes is an amazing scrambler (particularly sideline to sideline), whereas Allen is most dangerous as vertical runner. Further, when Allen takes off he can bowl over guys in space. Basically, you are doubling the running threat against that look with Allen’s ability to take off. 

 

Also Josh's kamikaze running style is a factor.  Mahomes runs well but he doesn't pull that trigger the way Josh does.

 

Someone wrote that Josh is the best "NO! ... NO! ... NO!... YESSSSS!!!" quarterback ever.

[CSBill]

The main thing the Bengals do against the Chiefs that most other teams somehow forget to do: They cover Kelce. Take him out of the mix and Mahomes and their offense is average.

[Protocal69]

2 hours ago, CSBill said:

The main thing the Bengals do against the Chiefs that most other teams somehow forget to do: They cover Kelce. Take him out of the mix and Mahomes and their offense is average.

Yeah I noticed that as well when I see the Bengals play the Chiefs. Its obvious that they try to take him out. 

[Eastport bills]

The Bills vs Bengals matchup will be must see entertainment. Imagine the hype for a possible number one seed/ bye for the winner. The game will be a high scoring affair with both teams going up and down the field. The Bengals have the best receivers in football and Mixon/Perrine are tough between the tackles pile movers. We have the Josh run/pass threat that is tough to defend, coupled with a suddenly real 2 headed running attack. The D-line will be crucial if we win. Immediate pressure on Joe Cool will be a must. Hopefully Miller will be back. Can’t’ wait.

[Big Turk]

If they drop 8, Allen may have over 100 yards rushing.

[Not at the table Karlos]

Anyone going to the game? I've heard a lot of good things about tailgating there. Any advice on where to meet up with other Bills fans or just look for a bunch of blue and red?

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Anyone going to the game? I've heard a lot of good things about tailgating there. Any advice on where to meet up with other Bills fans or just look for a bunch of blue and red?

I live an hour north of Cincinnati so I’ll be there. That’s probably bad news for the bills, since I’ve been to several Bills games and they’ve lost every single game I’ve attended haha. I’ll ask around about the tailgating experience and where to go. It’s going to be a crazy atmosphere for sure with a lot on the line. 

[mjt328]

3 hours ago, CSBill said:

The main thing the Bengals do against the Chiefs that most other teams somehow forget to do: They cover Kelce. Take him out of the mix and Mahomes and their offense is average.

 

100%.

 

I think defensive coordinators hate dedicating so many resources and changing up their normal scheme to cover a Tight End.  Most just pick their best covering safety or linebacker.  Some may even use a corner.  Very few get physical with him or use double-coverage.  Last week the Rams tried just covering him 1-on-1 with Jalen Ramsey, and it was embarrassing.  

 

Travis Kelce needs to be treated like a top WR.  Jammed at the line, and bracketed with additional safety help over the top.  If you wouldn't use a coverage scheme to try stopping Stefon Diggs, Justin Jefferson, etc., then it wont' work against Kelce either.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

Allen would kill them with his legs.  He can run vertically and to the sidelines as well.  

 

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

100%.

 

I think defensive coordinators hate dedicating so many resources and changing up their normal scheme to cover a Tight End.  Most just pick their best covering safety or linebacker.  Some may even use a corner.  Very few get physical with him or use double-coverage.  Last week the Rams tried just covering him 1-on-1 with Jalen Ramsey, and it was embarrassing.  

 

Travis Kelce needs to be treated like a top WR.  Jammed at the line, and bracketed with additional safety help over the top.  If you wouldn't use a coverage scheme to try stopping Stefon Diggs, Justin Jefferson, etc., then it wont' work against Kelce either.

 

Yep I can’t understand any of this either. Why teams choose to simply not defend Kelce is beyond me. He’s what makes them go. If the other JAG receivers beat you then fine. Im not letting kelce run free without jamming him. Bengals figured it out. Others aren’t paying attention. 

[Process]

I'm really looking forward to that game. Will be interesting to see how the two teams match up.

[wjag]

35 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Anyone going to the game? I've heard a lot of good things about tailgating there. Any advice on where to meet up with other Bills fans or just look for a bunch of blue and red?

 

Yep.  Driving in day of from Baltimore and staying overnight..  Should be balmy..

4 hours ago, CSBill said:

The main thing the Bengals do against the Chiefs that most other teams somehow forget to do: They cover Kelce. Take him out of the mix and Mahomes and their offense is average.

 

Kelce finished first half with zero receptions.  That has to be a first.  Wonder if something is up... Undisclosed injury, under the weather, something else?

[dollars 2 donuts]

 

 

On top of everything else mentioned, James Cook is starting to be a problem that teams may have to address in the near future.

 

He can burn you with a long run through a small hole and he can be right there, annoyingly, 4 yards up the field for a pass that possibly becomes 8 when it is done. 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by dollars 2 donuts

[SCBills]

Not sure they'd want to do it, unless necessary, in the regular season game.. but in the Playoffs, as other have mentioned Mahomes is great at scrambling, whereas Josh is a runner..  

 

Bills would likely just bludgeon those light boxes with QB runs until they get out of it. 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by SCBills

[TOboy]

We’ll find out week 17.

 

That said, I feel like we face that all the time. Josh just has to take what they give him and we need to utilize the running game. 
 

We’ll employ a similar approach on Joe cool. Can they be patient and take what’s given? 
 

I’m confident it’s a challenge we can overcome. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

7 hours ago, Locomark said:

On defense I know the Bengals have trouble when teams have a #1 go to WR, which the Chiefs do not have. 

On offense  I noticed Burrow threw numerous passes too easily through the spot that Tremaine would be that in no way would be completed against our defensive scheme or would have been tipped/picked. I also think our scheme holds up better against the swings they run to Perine since our LBs and Nickel are much better in coverage. Burrow does’t move of his spot much, which to me makes it easier to collapse the pocket or get a hand up. 
So I think they are a very dangerous team, but one I feel we match up against well if we can neutralize big plays, which to me is up to the play of Hamlin, and Dane/Elam/Rhoades. 
 

But I was told by Keyshawn, Jay Will and Max that the Chiefs are more dangerous without Tyreek Hill? 

 

How is that possible? 

 

 

[mannc]

I'm more concerned about who's going to cover Jamar Chase and Tee Higgins...

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

I'm more concerned about who's going to cover Jamar Chase and Tee Higgins...

The answer is nobody. That’s not just the case for us but also for every other team. No idea what we can do to slow them down especially with no Von to pressure burrow 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Mahomes seems to never try to challenge a qb spy running the football…seems like just adding a spy completely takes away mahomes runs for positive yardage and he just dances around behind the line of scrimmage.

they also really seem to struggle running the football even on light boxes 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

10 hours ago, BillsGuyOutWest said:

The Bengals dropping 8 into coverage seemed to do the trick again today against the Chiefs, just like in the playoffs last year. 

Would this work against the Bills and Allen?

 

I say no, because:

 

1. Although the Bills aren’t exactly the Titans, they are still have more of an overall power run ability than the Chiefs. The Chiefs did better today with 140 yards rushing, but it never seemed like there was ever any real play action threat or consistency. The Bengals let them run between the 20s and then clamped down when they needed to. 
 

2. Mahomes is an amazing scrambler (particularly sideline to sideline), whereas Allen is most dangerous as vertical runner. Further, when Allen takes off he can bowl over guys in space. Basically, you are doubling the running threat against that look with Allen’s ability to take off. 
 

I think the Bengals defense, especially  with their ends and linebackers, could cause problems other ways, but I don’t see them using the same game plan against the Bills. 
 

Finally, if my memory is correct I feel like the 8 man coverage package was something Belichick would mix in earlier in Allen’s career until the Allen eventually figured it all out. 

#2 ended the discussion!! 

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 hours ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said:

The answer is nobody. That’s not just the case for us but also for every other team. No idea what we can do to slow them down especially with no Von to pressure burrow 

Von is scheduled to be back for that game. 

[Mikie2times]

On defense we match up exceptionally well against the Bengals and the Chiefs match up very poorly. All the Bengals want to do is get you in man. This trend dates back to last year where they just torched man coverage  but struggled with zone. In an ideal world the Bengals will dispatch KC for us and we will dispatch the Bengals. We will see for sure at the end of the year but i just think we match up better against Cincinnati. Perhaps as well as anybody. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/joe-burrow-bengals-issues-when-facing-cover-2-defenses

 

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/joe-burrow-zac-taylor-concinnati-bengals-offensive-line/

[Matt_In_NH]

 I don't think it is ever as simple as dropping 8 into coverage and you can stop Mahomes.  There are a lot of nuances and changing things up and most importantly, whatever you do you need the players to do their job.  

[Norcalbillsfan]

10 hours ago, BillsGuyOutWest said:

The Bengals dropping 8 into coverage seemed to do the trick again today against the Chiefs, just like in the playoffs last year. 

Would this work against the Bills and Allen?

 

I say no, because:

 

1. Although the Bills aren’t exactly the Titans, they are still have more of an overall power run ability than the Chiefs. The Chiefs did better today with 140 yards rushing, but it never seemed like there was ever any real play action threat or consistency. The Bengals let them run between the 20s and then clamped down when they needed to. 
 

2. Mahomes is an amazing scrambler (particularly sideline to sideline), whereas Allen is most dangerous as vertical runner. Further, when Allen takes off he can bowl over guys in space. Basically, you are doubling the running threat against that look with Allen’s ability to take off. 
 

I think the Bengals defense, especially  with their ends and linebackers, could cause problems other ways, but I don’t see them using the same game plan against the Bills. 
 

Finally, if my memory is correct I feel like the 8 man coverage package was something Belichick would mix in earlier in Allen’s career until the Allen eventually figured it all out. 

I think this type of defensive scheme is a big reason dorsey went after mckissic, cook, and Hines. I think he sees the 2 high he wants to let josh check down to speed backs all day. Get a speed back to beat a LB then the defense relies on CBs making open feild tackles.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

Bengals defense only forced 1 punt yesterday. The win was more about their offense controlling the clock and putting up points (and a well timed fumble recovery)

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 I don't think it is ever as simple as dropping 8 into coverage and you can stop Mahomes.  There are a lot of nuances and changing things up and most importantly, whatever you do you need the players to do their job.  

It’s really mixing in single high looks with a robber that gave mahomes fits in the bengals playoff game…not sure if they did the same this game I was watching Miami mostly.  
 

the tyreek hill loss was massive for the chiefs and nobody else has really stepped up yet.  Teams aren’t as concerned with mixing in some man against the chiefs anymore.  I don’t think Andy Reid has a lot of confidence in their ability to run the football either.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Let's hope McD uses the Cincinnati blueprint to beat KC again

[billsfan89]

If I was defending Josh I would try to roll with 7 in coverage a spy and 3 in the pass rush. A spy would hurt Josh's ability to scramble and while you are only rushing 3 you have 7 in coverage to make it difficult to throw into a lot of coverage even if Josh has time. The difference would be I hope with the Bills that they have been developing a better traditional run game that can run down the throats of a 3-2-6 or 3-3-5 defense. I hope as Cook gets going and the O-line gets healthier the Bills can really turn up the heat on running down teams throats. We shall see but the 3 rush plus a spy with a lot of coverage is going to be something teams do try against Josh. 

[Process]

7 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Let's hope McD uses the Cincinnati blueprint to beat KC again

13 seconds from being 3-0 against them last three games. We have a higher net points than Cinci does vs KC last three games.

 

Our blueprint seems just fine.

[The Wiz]

9 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

If I was defending Josh I would try to roll with 7 in coverage a spy and 3 in the pass rush. A spy would hurt Josh's ability to scramble and while you are only rushing 3 you have 7 in coverage to make it difficult to throw into a lot of coverage even if Josh has time. The difference would be I hope with the Bills that they have been developing a better traditional run game that can run down the throats of a 3-2-6 or 3-3-5 defense. I hope as Cook gets going and the O-line gets healthier the Bills can really turn up the heat on running down teams throats. We shall see but the 3 rush plus a spy with a lot of coverage is going to be something teams do try against Josh. 

Give that to mahomes and burrow and sure, you might win. 

 

Allen sees 3 rushers and a spy on him, he's gonna go right at that spy and make him make a tackle.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by The Wiz

[John from Riverside]

Alan, with literally have 100 yards rushing game

[mrags]

44 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Give that to mahomes and burrow and sure, you might win. 

 

Allen sees 3 rushers and a spy on him, he's gonna go right at that spy and make him make a tackle.

 

 

This——-^
all game long 

[John from Riverside]

14 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Von is scheduled to be back for that game. 

Shhh he’s on a roll

[Bills!Win!]

We would see 10 Josh Allen QB sweeps and 1 hurdle 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Bills!Win!

[ChevyVanMiller]

22 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

On top of everything else mentioned, James Cook is starting to be a problem that teams may have to address in the near future.

 

He can burn you with a long run through a small hole and he can be right there, annoyingly, 4 yards up the field for a pass that possibly becomes 8 when it is done. 

 

 

 

(This is not snark) Once he learns to keep his balance with regularity, he’s going to be a real weapon. I’ve never seen a running back stumble and fall without contact as much as he has. I’m sure that it’s just a matter of adjusting his running posture, but I hope the coaches help him figure it out.

 
Once he does, he will be a true weapon for the offense.

[BearNorth]

16 hours ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

I think this type of defensive scheme is a big reason dorsey went after mckissic, cook, and Hines. I think he sees the 2 high he wants to let josh check down to speed backs all day. Get a speed back to beat a LB then the defense relies on CBs making open feild tackles.

You mean like the Pats got Marcus Jones in space vs. Hamlin.