Wawrow hints an Internal Issues with the Bills

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

21 minutes ago, HulkSmashMafia said:

Gabe looks open if Josh makes a better throw.

Gabe was open…that was a great route concept against the defense minny was running…it’s a shame he was worried about smith cuz he bit hard on the other post route 

 

smith thought they were cooked and makes a desperation dive but thankfully for him josh threw a terrible ball 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Nextmanup]

5 hours ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

This is a nothingburger. He's BSing to get clicks. The real internal issue is this team is becoming a team of losers. They better figure that internal issue out.

The foolishness of posts like this were literally pointed out 2 posts above yours...and you submitted it anyway.

 

That's classic.

 

👍

 

[HappyDays]

25 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

So you have a lot of personal feelings built in here

 

I do. I have been banging this drum since last season. 4th down aggressiveness has become a sort of mass hysteria among coaches and fans. Ten years ago it was the opposite, you had coaches making goofy decisions where they would be down by 7 points with 3 minutes left and they would punt the ball on 4th and 1 from the 50. Slowly but surely that kind of cowardly decision making fell out of favor - this is a good thing! But now the pendulum has swung way too far in the other direction. Now you'll have coaches leading by 10 points and choosing to go for it on 4th and 5 from the 50. I think the two decisions I just described are equally stupid. Brandon Staley tanked his team's playoff chances with crap like that last year and all along the way I see "analytics" people on Twitter applauding his decision making. Like I said, mass hysteria.

 

25 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

This was 4th and 2 and we go into shotgun and every WR runs into the end zone

 

And that play call would be a problem right? Kind of like; you need 10 yards and every receiver runs to the 7 yard line with the D right on their backs...

 

a poor play call =/= a bad decision.

 

Except that this wasn't a one off scenario. This is the issue with those supposed win percentage probability calculators that seemingly always suggest an aggressive decision. They don't take the team's history into context. We have been terrible both in the red zone and in short yardage situations this year. So here we are with a short yardage red zone play... I don't care what some unexplained algorithm says to do, I am 100% confident that this Bills team in that situation already leading by 10 points should take the FG. It doesn't matter what play we call. The decision is inherently reckless. I'm not talking from a position of hindsight here. I was upset when I saw the offense line up and hoped that we were just trying to draw them Offside. I can actually excuse player execution failures more than I can excuse coaching execution failures like that, because it was a no brainer decision that we flunked.

 

25 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

The vikings would have called much different plays to get the TD instead of taking shots and being able to settle for the FG. That entire drive would have looked different and you have no idea on how that would have played out. Based on how they were moving the ball against our D, they very likely would have gotten the TD

 

Huh? Look at the play by play. What you're saying could have happened is impossible. After that 4th and 2 interception the Vikings drove for a TD. Even being charitable and giving them the PAT they missed it would have been 30-24 Bills at that point. We then go three and out. The next drive is the one where the Vikings drove to the 1 yard line and we all know what happened next. So now it would be 31-30 Vikings and we drive for the game winning FG. Are you saying they would have played defense differently on the last drive if they knew a FG would have won the game instead of tied it? That's quite the stretch.

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by HappyDays

[Big Blitz]

57 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

4th and 1 or less they would QB sneak it every time. I'm fine with that. This was 4th and 2 and we go into shotgun and every WR runs into the end zone. It is a completely over the top decision in a game that we had in hand. This coaching staff has decided it hates FGs and it hates punts to such a degree that we hurt ourselves trying to avoid them. You think that mindset might have creeped into the QB's head too? I'm all for going for it on 4th down when it makes sense, but we have gotten in the habit of doing it any time we're past midfield with less than 5 yards to go. What did going for it on 4th down do for us against the Chiefs? A turnover on downs inside the 10, and a turnover on downs at midfield. Ooh the big bad scary Chiefs, can't afford to play conservatively!

 

I will say this isn't a Bills specific problem, coaches across the league are now terrified that if they don't go for it on 4th down and end up losing the game they will be harassed by the media. Whereas if a coach goes for it on 4th down and loses the game as a result, some amateur math geek on Twitter posts a chart that nobody actually understands which supposedly proves the coach improved his team's win percentage probability by 0.9% and everyone moves on. It's all total crap.

 

I think this team got horrendously over confident after halftime vs the Packers.  
 

AND - Seeing guys dropping like flies it just can’t be good for the collective psyche.  You start “blinking.”  
 

Suddenly you’re playing like trash and think you can’t win anymore.  They have that look like something is going to go wrong.  That’s on the coaches to fix.  
 

Josh Allen has never been at where he is at any level at anything like he is now.  We have truly never seen anything like it - just that his draft pedigree was legit and there was something there that couldn’t be quantified.  
 

How’s he doing handling it all?  For real.  Are the coaches working on his sugar high Josh tendencies?  Are they teaching him how to be perennially an MVP candidate?  How to handle that you are going to get every teams best shot?  That maybe it’s time to just walk off the field after every TD pass and let the fellas celebrate - you go right to the headset with Dorsey.  Look at the Office Tablet.  

 

All fair questions in my opinion.  

55 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

This makes me feel better with what I thought I saw at the game in my end zone, Devin wasn't open on the last play until it was too late
 

 

 

 

 

Why didn’t Singletary recognize sooner that Brown had his man and he had daylight in front of him immediately?  
 

That’s on scheme - or lack of awareness by Motor to immediately release and call for the pass

[Motorin']

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

How’s he doing handling it all?  For real.  Are the coaches working on his sugar high Josh tendencies?  Are they teaching him how to be perennially an MVP candidate?  How to handle that you are going to get every teams best shot?  That maybe it’s time to just walk off the field after every TD pass and let the fellas celebrate - you go right to the headset with Dorsey.  Look at the Office Tablet.  

 

All fair questions in my opinion.  

 

Those are definitely fair questions. And throw in: do these coaches know how to coach up a QB into becoming a perennial all pro if the player has the talent? I don't know that that they answer to that is yes. 

[newcam2012]

16 hours ago, DCofNC said:

The team doesn’t have the same energy they had, make ya wonder.

Losing kind of takes the energy away from you. 

[Nextmanup]

6 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Those are definitely fair questions. And throw in: do these coaches know how to coach up a QB into becoming a perennial all pro if the player has the talent? I don't know that that they answer to that is yes. 

The Sabres Rasmus Dahlin was quickly playing himself out of the league with previous Sabres coaching.

 

Then he gets a solid coach who knows how to develop a young player, and his game is reinvented totally.

 

Now, he's a legit Norris Trophy candidate, this year.

 

Coaching matters.

 

 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

Well, on Sunday, his first comments in the post-game PC threw Josh under the bus.

 

You can listen to it you know, at wgr550.com.

 

Instead of a generic, team oriented comment like "we didn't play well enough to win" or similar crap, he directly went to the issue of turning the ball over so many times.  He said "It's really hard to win when you don't protect the ball like that" or similar.

 

Considering Josh fumbled the exchange and made two HORRID interception throws, if those comments don't shine a lot on the QB, I don't know what would.

 

You can just tell; the guy has a TINY *****.  

You can have a Dirk Diggler **** and still point out, after 3 games of horrible turnovers from your QB, that it’s hurting the team. 

[popcornpam]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

This makes me feel better with what I thought I saw at the game in my end zone, Devin wasn't open on the last play until it was too late
 

Our head coach had two timeouts when we got to the 20 Why didn’t he take a time out and talk with his OC and Josh to try to work the ball down the field. He had over a minute left not 10 seconds? Poor coaching on Mickey D. He is fast to use timeouts for his defense to back them up all the time in that situation at the end of the game. It sounds like to me the head coach is only concerned with a Defense  

 

 

[Dr.Sack]

All problems always come back to the coach. In reality this is a team whose offense regressed in 2021 and appears to have climaxed in week 5. Gone are the days where announcers are shocked to see us punt. We are watching 2nd half offensive performances were instead of not blinking they are playing like a blind person.

[Buffalo Ballin]

5 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

The foolishness of posts like this were literally pointed out 2 posts above yours...and you submitted it anyway.

 

That's classic.

 

👍

 

 

Did I strike a nerve with you for you to single me out after all these pages in this thread? You mad.

 

Here. Take this.

 

You'll feel right as rain.

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Buffalo Ballin

[4merper4mer]

5 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

The Sabres Rasmus Dahlin was quickly playing himself out of the league with previous Sabres coaching.

 

Then he gets a solid coach who knows how to develop a young player, and his game is reinvented totally.

 

Now, he's a legit Norris Trophy candidate, this year.

 

Coaching matters.

 

 

Hyperbole much?  On what planet was Dahlin going to be quickly out of the league?  

[Kirby Jackson]

22 hours ago, mrags said:

Yeah, probably the players realizing their coaches and coordinators are losers

I think that you should stay.

22 hours ago, McBean said:

Let’s hope those internal issues are Brandon Beane finally realizing that Sean McDermott is Doug Collins. I hope Beane takes a look at the 7-2 New York Giants, with way less talent, and realizes what the real problem is. 

Do the right thing Beane and hire a bright offensive minded HC, or we’re going to waste a generational talent in Josh Allen.

If the Bills don’t win the Super Bowl, they should hire Sean Payton. I said that before the year and believe it more than ever. The window is open and they aren’t playing well. They lose a zillion close games, make mistakes and generally don’t look prepared. This isn’t a “prisoner of the moment” thing either. I’m on record, before this season, with my desire for Payton if they don’t win. Doug Collins is the PERFECT comparison!! Well done

[vincec]

I’m really confused by all these calls for the Bills to run more when they have a poor run blocking OL and middling RBs. The Bills are a pass offense. What they need to do is reestablish the short passing game to help them manage down and distance and take some pressure off Allen to force things downfield. Where is Mackenzie? Shakir? Knox? Singletary/Hines?

[Coach Tuesday]

Fire the OC.

[SectionC3]

7 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

This makes me feel better with what I thought I saw at the game in my end zone, Devin wasn't open on the last play until it was too late
 

 

 

I really think Davis should have bent the route.  Morris pulled the safety out of the way, Josh waited for the linebacker to move toward Singletary, and if Davis flattens it's a touchdown.  

[Reed83HOF]

6 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Why didn’t Singletary recognize sooner that Brown had his man and he had daylight in front of him immediately?  
 

That’s on scheme - or lack of awareness by Motor to immediately release and call for the pass

Player and coaching right there imo. 

[Reed83HOF]

6 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I really think Davis should have bent the route.  Morris pulled the safety out of the way, Josh waited for the linebacker to move toward Singletary, and if Davis flattens it's a touchdown.  

Josh had time to throw too...

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that you should stay.

If the Bills don’t win the Super Bowl, they should hire Sean Payton. I said that before the year and believe it more than ever. The window is open and they aren’t playing well. They lose a zillion close games, make mistakes and generally don’t look prepared. This isn’t a “prisoner of the moment” thing either. I’m on record, before this season, with my desire for Payton if they don’t win. Doug Collins is the PERFECT comparison!! Well done

And when Kirby comes in and drops an opinion there is fact to all of this. 

 

Everyone calling clickbait by Wawrow doesn't get it. He only shows smoke when there is fire. 

 

How justified is Jerry Hughes right now? 

 

32 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Fire the OC.

I'm not saying he's not really good and has potential ... But I don't think he is the problem 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

41 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Fire the OC.

Promote Hall

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that you should stay.

If the Bills don’t win the Super Bowl, they should hire Sean Payton. I said that before the year and believe it more than ever. The window is open and they aren’t playing well. They lose a zillion close games, make mistakes and generally don’t look prepared. This isn’t a “prisoner of the moment” thing either. I’m on record, before this season, with my desire for Payton if they don’t win. Doug Collins is the PERFECT comparison!! Well done

Sean Payton?  The guy who coached for 962 years, had a coke problem and won the SB a grand total of one time?  That’s your “proven” commodity?  Why not just dust off Brian Billeck?  

[Fan in Chicago]

17 minutes ago, boyst said:

 

 

I'm not saying he's not really good and has potential ... But I don't think he is the problem 

You don't? There is something very very wrong with the Offense. I can make a long list of things - refusal to stick with the running game, refusal to use pass catchers out of there backfield, no short play calls, inexplicably bad decision making by Allen week after week. 

[dave mcbride]

8 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

question for you

You project based on being up 13 instead of 10 that they wouldn't have been able to get 13 points on us based on changing the play calling on our end. You cannot keep their play calling on their subsequent drives the same as they were, playing to tie with a FG or being forced to get a TD...

 

The D gave up 26 points in the 2nd half - do you really think we would have stopped them? I don't; they were killing us

The defense gave up 13 points in the second half. In a normal world, the Bills win that game 27-23. It was 24-10 at halftime.

[Not at the table Karlos]

2 hours ago, vincec said:

I’m really confused by all these calls for the Bills to run more when they have a poor run blocking OL and middling RBs. The Bills are a pass offense. What they need to do is reestablish the short passing game to help them manage down and distance and take some pressure off Allen to force things downfield. Where is Mackenzie? Shakir? Knox? Singletary/Hines?

Because teams are selling out to defend the pass and Josh is struggling at the moment. So we would like to take some of the pressure off of him and make his job easier. Opening up more opportunities with play action or just keeping defenses off balance. 

49 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

Promote Hall

I can picture him jumping around like a lunatic in the booth. 

58 minutes ago, boyst said:

And when Kirby comes in and drops an opinion there is fact to all of this. 

 

Everyone calling clickbait by Wawrow doesn't get it. He only shows smoke when there is fire. 

 

How justified is Jerry Hughes right now? 

 

I'm not saying he's not really good and has potential ... But I don't think he is the problem 

Maybe i missed something but why is Hughes justified? 

[boyst]

22 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Because teams are selling out to defend the pass and Josh is struggling at the moment. So we would like to take some of the pressure off of him and make his job easier. Opening up more opportunities with play action or just keeping defenses off balance. 

I can picture him jumping around like a lunatic in the booth. 

Maybe i missed something but why is Hughes justified? 

Hughes didn't specifically say anything bad about the team but the things he didn't say, the way he left and the chatter from behind the doors was telling that he didn't fit the team and organizations directions. he was constantly at odds with McD

 

57 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

You don't? There is something very very wrong with the Offense. I can make a long list of things - refusal to stick with the running game, refusal to use pass catchers out of there backfield, no short play calls, inexplicably bad decision making by Allen week after week. 

i am willing to give him some leash to figure out his first time OCing.  There are problems but we have an experienced coach who has 5+ years as HC who should know how to work with young talent and develop someone like Dorsey - who we all knew was raw for the position.

[Reed83HOF]

39 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The defense gave up 13 points in the second half. In a normal world, the Bills win that game 27-23. It was 24-10 at halftime.

Ha! no clue why I typed 26 points. In a normal world, hyde and poyer would not have allowed 200 yards to Jefferson amd it would have been much different. I do think McD is being rightfully aggressive this year in trying to put teams away. I do believe part of the decision making on the 4th and 2 was putting this on the stronger (less injured) of the 2 units. They convert there or score the td, it takes a lot of pressure off the patchwork D or at least make them drive 93 yards. I have no problem with us trying to put the game away, that's what good teams do.

[LabattBlue]

8 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

The foolishness of posts like this were literally pointed out 2 posts above yours...and you submitted it anyway.

 

That's classic.

 

👍

 

What if the clicks are defined as more people following him on social media in order to stay up to date on this mystery info?

[PauleeeWalnuts]

While Josh owns a lot of this loss, McD is proving to not have what it takes to be a finisher like Andy Reid or Bill Belichick. The OC is making a lot of questionable play calls, as is the DC, and it doesn’t looks like McD overrides them at all. Our fans are starting to have zero confidence that they can close out these big games that come down to the wire. 

[Arkady Renko]

2 minutes ago, PaulieYayo said:

While Josh owns a lot of this loss, McD is proving to not have what it takes to be a finisher like Andy Reid or Bill Belichick. The OC is making a lot of questionable play calls, as is the DC, and it doesn’t looks like McD overrides them at all. Our fans are starting to have zero confidence that they can close out these big games that come down to the wire. 

How many times did Andy Reid fail in the big games before he succeeded? Funny that he’s now considered to be a clutch coach now. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

5 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said:

How many times did Andy Reid fail in the big games before he succeeded? Funny that he’s now considered to be a clutch coach now. 

Exactly.

 

That was the major downfall until finally he won.

[phypon]

9 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said:

How many times did Andy Reid fail in the big games before he succeeded? Funny that he’s now considered to be a clutch coach now. 

Serious question.  Do you think McD is a better coach than Reid? 

[Low Positive]

Based upon another thread, these internal issues may be in the coaching staff.

[Greg S]

Just now, phypon said:

Serious question.  Do you think McD is a better coach than Reid? 

 

Not really a fair comparison because Reid has been doing it a lot longer. Reid didn't win the big one in Philly, and it took him a while to finally win one in KC. If you go off of Reid's first 5 years and McDermott's 5 years here, it's probably close.

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, phypon said:

Serious question.  Do you think McD is a better coach than Reid? 

Not right now he's not, but nobody thought Andy Reid was a great coach until he got to KC. In fact, Patrick Mahomes is going to put Andy Reid in the HoF.

[strive_for_five_guy]

What is the point of Wawrow throwing this one out there though?  It’s like “I know something you don’t know”.  Dangling it over everyone else so we know how important he is?  Threatening the Bills that he’s going to spill the beans?  Encouraging fans to start making rumors?

[teef]

2 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

What is the point of Wawrow throwing this one out there though?  It’s like “I know something you don’t know”.  Dangling it over everyone else so we know how important he is?  Threatening the Bills that he’s going to spill the beans?  Encouraging fans to start making rumors?

this is where i'm at with it too.  I'm not saying there's no credibility to what he's saying, i'm just not sure what the intentions are floating this out there.  will there be a follow up?  is this a set up for an, "i knew it first" type of report.  i just don't understand the benefit.

[boyst]

17 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

What is the point of Wawrow throwing this one out there though?  It’s like “I know something you don’t know”.  Dangling it over everyone else so we know how important he is?  Threatening the Bills that he’s going to spill the beans?  Encouraging fans to start making rumors?

if i may speak freely based on what i know about him (we aren't best friends but i usually get a good conversation with him in at each game i go to) ....he is frustrated that this organization is floundering and flopping with this talent. for those thinking he cares about notoriety or followers - nah. he is bound by some ethics (both personal and professional) that do not let him just spill the beans.

 

he is a fan of this team and its players. sometimes i wonder which one he likes more, the players or the team. but i think he is frustrated at the circumstances that are being hidden and knowing it is causing a disruption. i don't think he aired this stuff out without sensing that players are now seeing it as a concern. i don't think he'd launch this narrative without several players talking. i do not know his sources with the team on the roster currently, fwiw.

 

in the past, after the fact - he has generally been wide open about issues concerning the Bils. so in a few years we may have those stories coming out but there is something going on there.

[No_Matter_What]

18 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Ah, so, you can't name an instance where this FO drafted an all world skill player.

 

Please, go ahead, astonish us with your vast storehouse of knowledge!

 

Out of curiosity, can you please name skill players you consider "all world" and were drafted last 5 years?

 

I would really like to know how many players do you mean and who they are. Genuine question.

Edited November 15, 2022 by No_Matter_What

[Beck Water]

45 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said:

How many times did Andy Reid fail in the big games before he succeeded? Funny that he’s now considered to be a clutch coach now. 

 

I can distinctly remember a Chiefs playoff loss where Tony Dungy opined on national TV, "the Chiefs may win a Superbowl, but they won't do it with Andy Reid as their coach" 

 

Not 100% sure when, it was before Mahomes.  Maybe 2016.

 

 

8 minutes ago, boyst said:

if i may speak freely based on what i know about him (we aren't best friends but i usually get a good conversation with him in at each game i go to) ....he is frustrated that this organization is floundering and flopping with this talent. for those thinking he cares about notoriety or followers - nah. he is bound by some ethics (both personal and professional) that do not let him just spill the beans.

 

he is a fan of this team and its players. sometimes i wonder which one he likes more, the players or the team. but i think he is frustrated at the circumstances that are being hidden and knowing it is causing a disruption. i don't think he aired this stuff out without sensing that players are now seeing it as a concern. i don't think he'd launch this narrative without several players talking. i do not know his sources with the team on the roster currently, fwiw.

 

in the past, after the fact - he has generally been wide open about issues concerning the Bils. so in a few years we may have those stories coming out but there is something going on there.

 

Everything you say may be true, and you may be correct to absolve Wawrow of self-importance or rumor-mongoring, but it doesn't change the question "what is his purpose in throwing this one out there?"

 

? what is it?

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Beck Water

[Bermuda Triangle]

On a roster with up to 69 players under contract, there are players who are unhappy with either their salary, contract status or playing time?  

 

This is revolutionary stuff from Wawrow.  Pulitzer Nominating Committee took note, I hope.