Matt Araiza accused of rape, served with a lawsuit.

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

It’s been reported everywhere (just read it in NYT) and her lawyer is saying so. 

Ok. I’d read (can’t remember where) that he refused to allow her to be interviewed, which would not surprise me.

[Mango]

Just now, ExiledInIllinois said:

I do! Give me a guy that can kick a ball consistently 80 yards and I'll turn into Chuck Knox with Tyrod Taylor and WIN!

😉 😜 

 
Look at this guy, trading JA17 for prime Ray Guy.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Just now, Mango said:

 
Look at this guy, trading JA17 for prime Ray Guy.

Hey... I never said that! 😆 

[HamSandwhich]

6 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

The “down payment” is small potatoes in the big picture.  It’s hard for me to understand that you believe this after watching McDermott last night.   Did you watch the post game presser?  
 

No doubt he was surprised by details that are now out there and he feels  this is much more serious now than before.  He clearly feels that information was he missing or was inaccurate?  I hope no one associated with the Bills had this information and did not flow it to him.     

 

 Even if they think Araiza might win the case, I don’t think they want the circus that goes with it.   
 

I see them picking up a punter from other teams cuts and moving on. 

So you’re ok with people losing their jobs for allegations? Are you a fan of the Salem witch trials way of life or something? 

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Where do I say that the Bills should ask the lawyer to do their investigation lol wtf?  
 

Simply interview the plaintiff.  

You can’t interview the plaintiff if it’s not disclosed to you.  And the you keep saying the Bills investigation was not thorough because they didn’t talk to the plaintiff.  
 

But:  

1.  You don’t know if the 3rd party PI spoke at all to the plaintiff.  
2.  The plaintiff has already submitted conflicting versions of the events.  She repeatedly stated in her own journal and in statements that she does not know who led her to the room or who was in the room.  Then files a civil suit naming 3 specific people and who exactly led her in and raped her. 
3.  The lawyer has complained on social media that the Bills didn’t run the investigation through him.  He didn’t want the Bills talking directly to his client, he wanted the Bills to talk to him and he had personally contacting the Bills for weeks trying to incentivize a cash settlement.  
4.  The plaintiffs statements at this stage are going to just be the claims in the civil suit.  
 

Point is, he is not a criminal attorney, he is a civil attorney.  Big difference.  It’s not in his best interest to let anyone talk to his client, he isn’t building a case, he’s trying to win money and the best way to do that is incentivize all parties into settling, something her attorney has been doing and has on his own accord out things on social media confirming that.

 

So, you can’t talk to a Jane Doe if that person isn’t disclosed.  And you don’t do an investigation and involve a civil attorney in said investigation.  
 

So I think people need to cut the Bills a little slack here.  They are getting blamed for a lot of things they really shouldn’t be getting blamed for IMHO.  

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, SDS said:

 

I woke up to two complaints on my Saturday:

 

1. Is no where safe from the rape accusations talk?

2. We need 25 (or 137) different topics all talking about nuanced aspects of this issue. (Which, in my experience, is totally realistic given this community's self-discipline to stay on topic and love of nuanced discourse.)

 

The only thing I know for certain, is we are handling it wrong.

 

You are handling it correctly. The alternative is that everyone will feel compelled to start a new thread about what HE/SHE just learned about this case, and wanted to let us all know. 
 

The whole first thread list  page would be about a rookie Punter

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

Ok. I’d read (can’t remember where) that he refused to allow her to be interviewed, which would not surprise me.

nope

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

3 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Absurd... But we might have a generational leg here. 

 

OK now I know you're trolling me.  Even if his leg is 'generational', his lack of hang time sucks for the NFL and is still a legitimate concern.

 

You'd have a better point if he played almost any other position.  Or if he were a Yugoslavian mule named Gus who could kick 100 yard field goals. 😄

[Mango]

7 minutes ago, SDS said:

 

I woke up to two complaints on my Saturday:

 

1. Is no where safe from the rape accusations talk?

2. We need 25 (or 137) different topics all talking about nuanced aspects of this issue. (Which, in my experience, is totally realistic given this community's self-discipline to stay on topic and love of nuanced discourse.)

 

The only thing I know for certain, is we are handling it wrong.

 

@Kirby Jackson makes some great points I generally agree with. Also, really glad you’ve been back lately Kirby!
 

But I understand that becomes a nightmare for you and @Simon who seems to be working overtime on this thread specifically. It’s certainly nuanced. I appreciate your efforts. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Hey... I never said that! 😆 

Most important player on the field. 😂

Edited August 27, 2022 by Mango

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

36 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Limiting all of the Araiza talk to this thread is absurd/stupid @SDS. There are SO many layers to it. There will be 25 different conversations at once. How the Bills are handling it is VASTLY different from “who they might replace him with?” You also have the layer of “how much did they know and when?” “What did they know when they released Haack?” There are so many different angles here I can’t understand why it is all being jammed into one conversation?!? This thread will be 400 pages and talk about 137 different things.  
 

The “over moderation” led me to a couple of year hiatus. I enjoy coming here to talk Bills but want to “get in and get out.” I’m curious as to people’s opinions on very specific topics. I don’t care to hear anyone chime in on “how the Bills are handling this” or “giving him the benefit of the doubt” or anything like that. I have an opinion on that and it isn’t changing and will be a hostile discussion (but one that warrants a place here). I ONLY care to hear people’s opinions on other options if Araiza is gone. I know that others feel the same way. We should ABSOLUTELY allow multiple Araiza threads right now. It is THE biggest Bills topic with lots of arms and legs. My $.02.
 

 

 

One of the things I find very annoying is these merged threads.  You read the title of the 2nd thread and it's something I was interested in, but now you need to go to this other thread that's maybe 10 pages long and try and find what/when this merged part came in.  It would be OK if you click on the merged thread and it would take you right to that post.

 

And never consistent in when there are 5 different threads and when there aren't.

[ALF]

McDermett  is upset and losing  sleep , the team picks up on this ,settle this before start of season.

[DrPJax]

30 minutes ago, die hard bills fan said:

Ariza is finished.

He has been found guilty by the court of public opinion, and even if he is found innocent by the facts,  I doubt he plays in the nfl anymore. 

Do the names Vick , Lewis , Watson, beast mode, Antonio brown, Terrell Owens , Michael Irvin , the Vikings r b who whipped his children with cords ring any bells for you?  Pretty sure public opinion didn’t keep them out of the if you got talent , you can play league.  Hey owners with happy endings, and those videoing cheer leaders changing , and coaches with volumes of racial emails still made it back in the league!   If contrite , a talented virtual baby first offender will most likely play again.  Our country tends to give second chances if someone is accountable and sincerely apologetic and seeks personal redemption/ change. If a recidivist sociopath like Brown got several chances , I am going to believe if found guilty yet contrite , he has so much talent his career is still salvageable.  If Watson can still walk out on field after 66  cases , I think Ariza , while facing a tough path , could recover.  Now if found criminally guilty , his punting skills may not be enough to overcome such despicable behavior.  Never say never!  😉😊

30 minutes ago, die hard bills fan said:

Ariza is finished.

He has been found guilty by the court of public opinion, and even if he is found innocent by the facts,  I doubt he plays in the nfl anymore. 

Do the names Vick , Lewis , Watson, beast mode, Antonio brown, Terrell Owens , Michael Irvin , the Vikings r b who whipped his children with cords ring any bells for you?  Pretty sure public opinion didn’t keep them out of the if you got talent , you can play league.  Hey owners with happy endings, and those videoing cheer leaders changing , and coaches with volumes of racial emails still made it back in the league!   If contrite , a talented virtual baby first offender will most likely play again.  Our country tends to give second chances if someone is accountable and sincerely apologetic and seeks personal redemption/ change. If a recidivist sociopath like Brown got several chances , I am going to believe if found guilty yet contrite , he has so much talent his career is still salvageable.  If Watson can still walk out on field after 66  cases , I think Ariza , while facing a tough path , could recover.  Now if found criminally guilty , his punting skills may not be enough to overcome such despicable behavior.  Never say never!  😉😊

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

You can’t interview the plaintiff if it’s not disclosed to you.  And the you keep saying the Bills investigation was not thorough because they didn’t talk to the plaintiff.  
 

But:  

1.  You don’t know if the 3rd party PI spoke at all to the plaintiff.  
2.  The plaintiff has already submitted conflicting versions of the events.  She repeatedly stated in her own journal and in statements that she does not know who led her to the room or who was in the room.  Then files a civil suit naming 3 specific people and who exactly led her in and raped her. 
3.  The lawyer has complained on social media that the Bills didn’t run the investigation through him.  He didn’t want the Bills talking directly to his client, he wanted the Bills to talk to him and he had personally contacting the Bills for weeks trying to incentivize a cash settlement.  
4.  The plaintiffs statements at this stage are going to just be the claims in the civil suit.  
 

Point is, he is not a criminal attorney, he is a civil attorney.  Big difference.  It’s not in his best interest to let anyone talk to his client, he isn’t building a case, he’s trying to win money and the best way to do that is incentivize all parties into settling, something her attorney has been doing and has on his own accord out things on social media confirming that.

 

So, you can’t talk to a Jane Doe if that person isn’t disclosed.  And you don’t do an investigation and involve a civil attorney in said investigation.  
 

So I think people need to cut the Bills a little slack here.  They are getting blamed for a lot of things they really shouldn’t be getting blamed for IMHO.  

The plaintiffs lawyer says the Bill have not asked to speak to her.   He contacted THEM weeks ago to give them a heads up that his client was filing a suit against Araiza. If he’s looking for big money, why would he take the chance that the Bills would cut him after hearing this? 
 

[BuffaloBud17]

The ones this stuff hurts the most is the women bills fans that are rape survivors. Got to cut him, and let this be resolved 

Edited August 27, 2022 by BuffaloBud17

[Behindenemylines]

2 minutes ago, HankBulloughMellencamp said:

 

OK now I know you're trolling me.  Even if his leg is 'generational', his lack of hang time sucks for the NFL and is still a legitimate concern.

 

You'd have a better point if he played almost any other position.  Or if he were a Yugoslavian mule named Gus who could kick 100 yard field goals. 😄

Are you suggesting we dig up dead Don Knots and have him play punter a la weekend at Bernie’s?  Love the plan! 

[Buffalo03]

8 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

no, i don't do drugs

You realize I'm quoting My Cousin Vinny with you, right? Just so we're on the same page lol

[HOUSE]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I don't like your attitude 

Wow, theres a surprise

[ExiledInIllinois]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

@Kirby Jackson makes some great points I generally agree with. Also, really glad you’ve been back lately Kirby!
 

But I understand that becomes a nightmare for you and @Simon who seems to be working overtime on this thread specifically. It’s certainly nuanced. I appreciate your efforts. 

 

 

Most important player on the field. 😂

When JA17 goes 3 and out inside his 20, yes the punter is!

[Behindenemylines]

1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said:

You realize I'm quoting My Cousin Vinny with you, right? Just so we're on the same page lol

What’s a Yute?

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

The third party PI should’ve been able to at least find out some semblance of the story, but also that she was 17, no?

 

Im not advocating destroying a 21 year old for having sex with a 17 year old that allegedly was portraying herself as 18.  Anyone who is, I’m sorry… but I hope your child never goes to parties in college if you’re expecting ID checks before sex.  
 

However, if the Bills knew that the story of gang rape accusations were out there… and maybe they truly believe, or believed at the time, based on their findings that he’s innocent.   How did they think they could withstand the public onslaught from media and Twitter of both “rape” and “sex w a minor”.  
 

They could both be true or the rape could be false and he was misled on age … but how on earth could the Bills have believed they could navigate both of those allegations?

 

America in 2022… where the accused not only needs to be innocent, but able to prove that innocence within 24-48 hours. 
 

If he did it, then **** him and cut him yesterday with no looking back. 

 

If he didn’t.. well, we may never know. 

No disrespect at all intended here, but you seem to be making assumptions here on what was or wasn’t found before we know what Bills PI discovered.

 

I agree with pretty much everything else you said, all valid comments.  

[AuntieEm]

24 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I feel like the fact that he was in street clothes and the plate was taken off his locker tells us everything we need to know.

 

 The 'missing nameplate' is only the visiting locker room setup by panthers did not put names on lockers for I'd expect any of the non dressing players.   I bet if no locker was ' nameplated'  for any of the starters like Josh we won't assume he's not making the final 53 roster.

Edited August 27, 2022 by AuntieEm

[BeastMaster]

6 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

Maybe I am naive, but how does one go about setting up a gang rape?  Do you just call a couple guys-people you have obviously discussed coordinating a gang  rape with at some point I. The future- and say “hey I’ve got this girl let’s gang rape her tonight” and you meet someplace pre determined.  That seems just so out there but yet I really can’t think of what else “setting up” would mean. If this is the case then execute all three because they are total psychopaths premeditating such violence.   
 

Someone earlier said punter was responsible for where he dropped her off.  How and why? If he had dropped her off at her own home and subsequently this happened by strangers to him he isn’t responsible. 
 

So it leads back to him having fully and preplanned and executed his plan of gang rape.   
 

quite the well thought out statement by lawyer

 

i am not making light of anything I’m trying to wrap my head around this. If someone called me and asked if I was up for gang raping someone sometime I’d call the police right after I beat the stuffing out of the scumbag. 

Lots of really bad takes by many here. Guess that comes with having a mega thread where information is limited, and posters don't bother to read.

 

I also think that a possible scenario is that this woman did have sexual relations with Araiza, but went on to later get involved in a situation where she was attacked. Being that Araiza is the meal ticket and headliner for a media frenzy, she links him to the attack and adds him into something that he was not involved with.

 

We don't know, and unless we get more information...we are all left guessing.

 

I'll also say it's easy to just say get rid of him and the problem, but I kinda see that as a surrender to the media and court of public opinion, instead of getting it right.

 

I suppose it depends on what matters to the organization at this point

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 minute ago, BeastMaster said:

Lots of really bad takes by many here. Guess that comes with having a mega thread where information is limited, and posters don't bother to read.

 

I also think that a possible scenario is that this woman did have sexual relations with Araiza, but went on to later get involved in a situation where she was attacked. Being that Araiza is the meal ticket and headliner for a media frenzy, she links him to the attack and adds him into something that he was not involved with.

 

We don't know, and unless we get more information...we are all left guessing.

 

I'll also say it's easy to just say get rid of him and the problem, but I kinda see that as a surrender to the media and court of public opinion, instead of getting it right.

 

I suppose it depends on what matters to the organization at this point

I think public opinion and social media court is Araiza’s problem and his Lawyer is NOT helping. If the circus gets too big the team will just cut ties. 

[boyst]

I'm tired of the gaslighting by WGR

 

The mantra of "the Bills won't cut him so we are forced to talk about him" is hilarious.

 

The afternoon guys doing pre-game said " as long as he is on the team this is the only thing we will be able to talk about. They need to do something" was the biggest example of how piss-poor the media is on the connection to reality.

 

These doofs have the mic. They can literally talk about anything.

[Bermuda Triangle]

9 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

I've taken a half dozen polygraph tests and lied throughout and passed. They're easy to fool. 

Cool guy alert!

[YoloinOhio]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloBud17 said:

The ones this stuff hurts the most is the women bills fans that are rape survivors. Got to cut him, and let this be resolved 

Again I think what makes it tough is that they don’t know if he raped her. It’s easy to say just cut him because he’s named as an accomplice but he may be innocent. There were other players there and she didn’t remember anything. He’s saying the details in the suit are not accurate.  It’s tough to separate the emotion. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[boyst]

Just now, Bermuda Triangle said:

Cool guy alert!

I'm so cool I am beyond miles Davis. 

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

No disrespect at all intended here, but you seem to be making assumptions here on what was or wasn’t found before we know what Bills PI discovered.

 

I agree with pretty much everything else you said, all valid comments.  

Oh, I am… I’m just assuming that they would at least know the age of the woman at the time this is alleged to have occurred.  
 

I’m also assuming the investigation corroborated Araiza’s side of the story.  
 

Maybe I’m wrong and the Bills thought they could sneak a rapist onto the team right after Deshaun Watson’s offseason…. But I have to imagine those two findings (that he was believable and she was underage but there is context) were provided to the team during the investigation. 
 

but yes… definitely assumptions on my part. 

[Mango]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

No disrespect at all intended here, but you seem to be making assumptions here on what was or wasn’t found before we know what Bills PI discovered.

 

I agree with pretty much everything else you said, all valid comments.  

Its a football internet message board, we are all making assumptions.

 

The entire premise is assumption. haha. 
 

None of us actually know Edmunds responsibility on a play, coverage assignments for a DB, or what a WR should have seen and what their reaction should be. But we still get 35 post game threads and hundreds of responses. 
 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Mango

[CaliBills]

Just now, Boyst62 said:

I'm so cool I am beyond miles Davis. 

Who is Miles Davis?

 

haha jk I know he is that singer that song jailhouse rock and all that 

[The Red King]

9 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

Well, the Bills have a real mess on their hands and they have hard decisions to make.  Just the fact that Araiza was involved in this type of situation is a red flag.  The Bills have to protect themselves and their reputation, they need answers of the evidence here. If the girl's rape test shows multiple DNA?  The statuatory issue?

If there isn't real clear problems with the victim's story then I won't want to support this franchise if they keep Araiza.  

 

I get your point about innocent until proven guilty, but this isn't a trial.  This is a business decision based on a terrible situation with most of the worst facets involving Araiza.

 

You can always go support the Browns.  They stood up for your principles.

 

You mean like innocent until proven guilty?  Sorry, didn't realize you supported the Salem Witch Trials.

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

You know what would really suck?

 

Bills cut

He settles

Signs with other team and hangs an 80 yarder on us.  

 

He either wins a Bills or crashes a Bill.

 

We've crossed the Rubicon.

 

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

No.  Because then he lied to Bills. Cut him and give him an orange jumpsuit (and I don't mean a Fins Uni).  The Bills cab play victimized role. 

 

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Sorta. Don't dwell on it. "Onto next week, next question, danke."

 

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Yet... The police find nothing criminally.   Were they really on the fix?  Or is plaintiff embellishing for a lower burden of proof civil case

 

 

I notice you have a lot to say, but don't want to elaborate on your statement about making a rape victim whole. Please, enlighten us. 

[Behindenemylines]

3 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Lots of really bad takes by many here. Guess that comes with having a mega thread where information is limited, and posters don't bother to read.

 

I also think that a possible scenario is that this woman did have sexual relations with Araiza, but went on to later get involved in a situation where she was attacked. Being that Araiza is the meal ticket and headliner for a media frenzy, she links him to the attack and adds him into something that he was not involved with.

 

We don't know, and unless we get more information...we are all left guessing.

 

I'll also say it's easy to just say get rid of him and the problem, but I kinda see that as a surrender to the media and court of public opinion, instead of getting it right.

 

I suppose it depends on what matters to the organization at this point

That’s what’s so difficult because if it was a different position would it be harder to just cut him-which is a moral dilemma which is what I saw on McD face last night.   And none of us know how much the Bills knew or know now. And the more they say the more liable they end up later on too.  

[BeastMaster]

3 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I think public opinion and social media court is Araiza’s problem and his Lawyer is NOT helping. If the circus gets too big the team will just cut ties. 

I agree, and I think that the organization does eventually give in to the mob and cuts ties. 

 

I think suspending him with pay until it's resolved is the best option. We have to pay him regardless...it keeps the heat off of the team, and it allows us to keep him if he is proven to have done nothing wrong...instead of a team scooping him up and then they get his services at our expense.

[wppete]

49 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

Uh didnt Kim recently suffer a major medical ailment that has her in the hospital for a long time? In fact is she not still recovering???

 

Your post seems absolutely absurd in light of that.

No I did no. Be interesting to see when recovered what her comment on the Araiza and Deshaun Watson Watson situation.

[hemma]

Reading some of these posts makes me wonder if people understand that the Bills have their own attorneys and quite likely have picked up a Cal firm on retainer.

 

Much if not all of their responses and actions over the last month have and will continue to be directed by their attorneys.  Every communication release by the Bills has been & will continue to be heavily wordsmithed.

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, BeastMaster said:

I agree, and I think that the organization does eventually give in to the mob and cuts ties. 

 

I think suspending him with pay until it's resolved is the best option. We have to pay him regardless...it keeps the heat off of the team, and it allows us to keep him if he is proven to have done nothing wrong...instead of a team scooping him up and then they get his services at our expense.

I’m not sure if they can suspend him without pay per the cba. I think it would have to be like watson’s situation last year and make him inactive every week and still pay him. But then you are using two roster spots on punters 

Edited August 27, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[SCBills]

5 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

That’s what’s so difficult because if it was a different position would it be harder to just cut him-which is a moral dilemma which is what I saw on McD face last night.   And none of us know how much the Bills knew or know now. And the more they say the more liable they end up later on too.  

I don’t know that it would be, tbh. 
 

Arazia just happens to be the first guy after Watson’s ordeal to get hit with a sexual assault related accusation.

 

Seeing how media has covered the story, and how the Twitter crowd has reacted.. essentially demanding he be sacrificed to the bowels of hell.. I honestly don’t know if ANYONE in the league stands a chance if they get hit with a sexual assault allegation right now. 
 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by SCBills

[Ralonzo]

14 minutes ago, BuffaloBud17 said:

The ones this stuff hurts the most is the women bills fans that are rape survivors. Got to cut him, and let this be resolved 

 

There's a lot of non-sequitur takes on this board but this one's a contender for the crown. Are you Tim Graham? Many sports reporters are women, as you know. How can they continue to cover the Bills if they don't cut the punter?

[Albany,n.y.]

9 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Lots of really bad takes by many here. Guess that comes with having a mega thread where information is limited, and posters don't bother to read.

 

I also think that a possible scenario is that this woman did have sexual relations with Araiza, but went on to later get involved in a situation where she was attacked. Being that Araiza is the meal ticket and headliner for a media frenzy, she links him to the attack and adds him into something that he was not involved with.

 

We don't know, and unless we get more information...we are all left guessing.

 

I'll also say it's easy to just say get rid of him and the problem, but I kinda see that as a surrender to the media and court of public opinion, instead of getting it right.

 

I suppose it depends on what matters to the organization at this point

The problem is that if Araiza had sex with her it's still statutory rape even if he wasn't involved in any of the other stuff.  If they have any proof they had sex, consensual or not, he's toast.  

[Bermuda Triangle]

It's probably been asked, but where are Kim Pegula and Beane on all of this?  Why is McDermott being hung out to dry by the organization?