Matt Araiza accused of rape, served with a lawsuit.

[jethro_tull]

MA needs to be off the team before the opening game.  This is a distraction that the organization cannot afford.  

[Kellyhero68]

If Josh and the offense do their jobs the Bills do not need a great punter. And if this side show distracts the team, then for the good of the team and the Superbowl run they need to release him. Guilty or not is a moot point. That is the state of affairs.

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

This is the out and the way that McDermott gets out of this mess.  The Bills can say that the legal issues should run their courses.  But the separate issue is that Araiza was dishonest with the team about this incident, and that error, which is inconsistent organization ethos, is the ground for termination. 

 

It's telling to me that Araiza didn't wear the team logo at the stadium last night, and that McDermott didn't defend him (or at least suggest that brakes should be tapped in this situation) in the press conference.  

 

If it was Araiza who was dishonest and, instead, he had told Beane who hadn't relayed the information to McDermott, of course.

 

Releasing the statement whilst the Bills were playing but McDermott being unaware it was going to happen is another sign of a split between the team and Araiza too IMO. Just feels like a matter of time before he is cut.

[Lost]

36 minutes ago, Beerball said:

Wow, where to begin? There’s so much wrong wrapped up here that I honestly don’t know where to start. 

I don't share @Chandler#81 sentiment here but he may be right, at least partially about him not being charged.  As @Delusional Bills Optimist posted in this thread, there is much higher burden of proof in the criminal arena.   

 

12 hours ago, Delusional Bills Optimist said:

 

As a lawyer who prosecutes civil/administrative sex abuse cases against minors (and thus is privy to the frequent companion criminal cases), my thoughts are as follows:

...

2. I infer that there aren’t going to be charges forthcoming against MA, which is interesting because so-called statutory rape is practically a strict liability crime, and the proffering of an affirmative defense doesn’t usually dissuade a prosecutor from levying charges. The accuser’s/victim’s attorney would be in the loop regarding the charging decision, and the likely decision not to charge resulted in the filing of the civil suit. In a case like this, a prosecutor is not going to want to expose their complainant to adverse examination in a civil arena, either at trial or in depositions. You don’t want your witness pinned down under oath in advance of your trial, especially given the much higher criminal burden of proof.

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree that this social media driven tendency to rush to judgment rather than letting the process play out is really regrettable, but there is no question that what is out there looks bad for Araiza. 

 

Personally I both believe that the allegations are likely proveable and that the burden still lies on the plaintiff (and / or state) to prove it and guilt or civil liability is for a real court not the court of public opinion. 

 

That said if, as looks likely, Araiza has lied to the Bills then he is done here in a football sense regardless of what happens later in terms of the allegations against him. 

 

This is my stance as well.   I hate to see someone's life ruined until they've been proven guilty but what is out there already and that Araiza has admitted to, he at the very least committed statutory rape and then was not forthcoming with the Bills about it.   That alone is enough reason for me not really want him on this team regardless of the gang rape allegations.  

 

The real reason I want him cut though is because this entire situation now is coming at the detriment to the TEAM.   We are coming up on opening week of what is supposed to be the Bills year and now have this giant distraction taking center stage.  I want the Bills to be able to focus on football. I want our coach to be able to sleep at night and now worry about these things.   If the kid ultimately ends up getting cleared in court, good for him.  I'm sure he'll still go on to a lucrative career in the NFL.   He may get picked up by another team now if we cut him, who knows.   But this just isn't a good look for a team that prides itself on building around character.  For a +8 net yards he might have given us two or three times a game there is no way it's worth the headache this organization and fans are going to have to endure for the foreseeable future.   

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, Believer said:

Find it implausible Beane withheld any information from McDermott…

 

Much more likely Ariaza gave new information to McDermott and Beane after the plane landed in Carolina… and they confronted him with the LA Times article…

And that corporation counsel did a half-arsed, lousy investigation that put everyone in a bind. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:

 

On 1, as I understand it, he says his 'choice' was he went to a party, had consensual sex with a girl who was 21, led her to a room to rest when she asked him to do so, then left the house with witnesses agreeing this is the case. Based on his defence, he did not make 'bad' choices. If every 21 year old was imprisoned for doing this there wouldn't be enough room.

 

Of course, there is a counter allegation which says very different from above but a lot of posters seem desperate to believe either the allegations or the defence rather than allowing it to play out.

Then. If this is true... Bills need to back him.

 

BUT if it's true... IMO, he's still liable in a civil suit I would think.  Did he make sure she was safe? NO. Obviously she wasn't. 

 

The analogy I can think of is dropping someone off home?  Do you wait until they get door unlocked and enter safely OR just speed off.  Seems to me, Araiza just speed off without making sure she was safe.

 

In a civil case,  the burden is less.   He's still guilty in the situation you explained. Maybe not guilty of the most heinous acts, but still liable for her safety.  It was his residence,  right?

[cd1]

Some people here don't seem to understand that:

 

1. Simply attending a party (regardless of age) does not imply girls/women are fair game sexually.

 

2. No means no. Just because a woman consents to oral sex does not equate to "anything goes sexually" after that.

 

3. Rape is rape regardless of the age of the victim. 

 

This whole situation is very disappointing. 

[WotAGuy]

8 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

Serious question. Why do fans think this will derail the season? 
 

Do fans think Josh is sat thinking about this and not focused on the Rams?

 

Is Von Miller going to be so distracted he won’t be able to rush the passer?

 

I get it, it’s a bad look and bad for the Bills organizationally but I don’t get how it effects the players. Can anyone point me in a direction where something bad has happened to a football team PR wise and it’s completely derailed a season? Spygate was embarrassing for the Pats**, they proceeded to won’t 18 straight games. They went 12-4 and went to the AFC championship after Deflategate. Both of those situations had more to do with football and the game itself more than what a single player has done off the footballs field.

The head coach will be spending time on all this bull instead of getting his team ready.  Players will be asked questions about it. Fans will be asking questions about it. This is an issue no one in the organization needs to spend time on, especially in arguably the most important season in the team’s history. 
 

Araiza will need to work through his own process and, if the Bills cut him loose, he’ll be free to seek employment anywhere.  Being a football player is not a right.  He can get a job like the rest of us, using his valuable SDSU degree. 

[DrPJax]

2 minutes ago, pigpen65 said:

Only if he's convicted? Watson was never found guilty of anything you know. 

Not true.  He Denys gulit but the female judge / arbitrator stated he committed the acts.  Sorry but his lack of contrition is not lack of guilt. If she didn’t find him guilty , how could she legally have dispensed any penalties despite how light they were and ended with heavier appeals.  He was found guilty , he just continues to deny it in his own mind. She expressly said she found he committed the actions he was accused of.  That, my friend is being convicted of guilty behavior or she would have had to dismiss any requirements for him to sit out ANY games. The NFLPA accepted that ruling.  The nfl appealed for stiffer penalties surrounding his guilt, and he was found guilty, convicted , and will serve stiffer punishment.  Non conviction or innocence and he would be playing without suspension and a 5 mil$ fine!  

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Then. If this is true... Bills need to back him.

 

BUT if it's true... IMO, he's still liable in a civil suit I would think.  Did he make sure she was safe? NO. Obviously she wasn't. 

 

The analogy I can think of is dropping someone off home?  Do you wait until they get door unlocked and enter safely OR just speed off.  Seems to me, Araiza just speed off without making sure she was safe.

 

In a civil case,  the burden is less.   He's still guilty in the situation you explained. Maybe not guilty of the most heinous acts, but still liable for her safety.  It was his residence,  right?

 

No, it wasn't his residence IIRC.

Depends what his full defence is, of course, and seemingly other friends of hers were present who he may have thought would look out for her.

 

And this is just one side of what happened; obviously the allegations paint a very different picture.

[BillsFanSD]

2 minutes ago, cd1 said:

Some people here don't seem to understand that:

 

1. Simply attending a party (regardless of age) does not imply girls/women are fair game sexually.

 

2. No means no. Just because a woman consents to oral sex does not equate to "anything goes sexually" after that.

 

3. Rape is rape regardless of the age of the victim. 

 

This whole situation is very disappointing. 

I've followed this thread pretty closely (too closely) and I don't think anybody is disputing any of this.

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, WotAGuy said:

The head coach will be spending time on all this bull instead of getting his team ready.  Players will be asked questions about it. Fans will be asking questions about it. This is an issue no one in the organization needs to spend time on, especially in arguably the most important season in the team’s history. 
 

Araiza will need to work through his own process and, if the Bills cut him loose, he’ll be free to seek employment anywhere.  Being a football player is not a right.  He can get a job like the rest of us, using his valuable SDSU degree. 

Life throws lemons, make lemonade... If they can't handle this, then they can't handle the media leading up to a Super Bowl.

[Ralonzo]

28 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

Since when has guilty until proven innocent been a thing?

 

Oh, quite a while. After all, the nature of the evidence is irrelevant; it's the seriousness of the charge that matters.

[Wayne Cubed]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

This is the out and the way that McDermott gets out of this mess.  The Bills can say that the legal issues should run their courses.  But the separate issue is that Araiza was dishonest with the team about this incident, and that error, which is inconsistent organization ethos, is the ground for termination. 

 

It's telling to me that Araiza didn't wear the team logo at the stadium last night, and that McDermott didn't defend him (or at least suggest that brakes should be tapped in this situation) in the press conference.  

Why would McDermott out and out defend him?? I don’t think that tells you anything at all.

 

A young woman was raped, there is no doubt about that. A Buffalo Bills player has been accused of involvement in that. Gather evidence and respect the victim.
 

McD isn’t a lawyer and he’s not working for the police. He won’t have all the information they have. It would be a PR disaster to come out and defend a player like that. 
 

That goes for any player who is accused or currently involved in an investigation.

[Ralonzo]

23 minutes ago, jkirchofer said:

Man, none of us forced him to attend that party. None of us put him in the situation where accusations could be made. No one else is responsible for his actions but Matt Araiza. He should have made better choices.

 

You shouldn't have gone somewhere she was wearing that dress.

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:

 

No, it wasn't his residence IIRC.

Depends what his full defence is, of course, and seemingly other friends of hers were present who he may have thought would look out for her.

 

And this is just one side of what happened; obviously the allegations paint a very different picture.

Thnx.  I thought it was his.  That helps him I believe!

[LeGOATski]

5 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Then. If this is true... Bills need to back him.

 

BUT if it's true... IMO, he's still liable in a civil suit I would think.  Did he make sure she was safe? NO. Obviously she wasn't. 

 

The analogy I can think of is dropping someone off home?  Do you wait until they get door unlocked and enter safely OR just speed off.  Seems to me, Araiza just speed off without making sure she was safe.

 

In a civil case,  the burden is less.   He's still guilty in the situation you explained. Maybe not guilty of the most heinous acts, but still liable for her safety.  It was his residence,  right?

his lawyer said it was not his residence. I think that would be even more damning.

[DCbillsfan]

10 minutes ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Matt will be released… this is going to take months if not a year to clear up.

 

I predict Jordan Berry will be our punter come Wednesday 

Possible.  It was previously posted the Titans have 2 punters on their roster - Kern and Stonehouse who may draw interest if one of them is cut.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

13 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Given that the alleged incident occured Pre-Draft, he can't be placed on the NFL Exempt list. And to release him now before the case plays out will presume guilt and hinder his case - which could open the Bills to lawsuits themselves.

 

We're kind of stuck. Maybe they can place him on some sort of Team Leave until the process plays out. Maybe they can release him and specifically state it's only for not making them aware of the issue Pre-Draft. But it's tricky.

 

It's not as cut and dry to simply release him as many are suggesting.

 

I totally disagree.

 

I believe McDermott's "we have a lot of work to do" is more referring to doing some forensics on how this entire situation was something that ultimately blindsided & embarrassed them as a scouting staff.  And the reports of punt god walking into the stadium wearing no visible Bills logo, to me, only proves that point & seals his fate. 

 

And then... Araiza releases a statement while in exile in the stadium through his lawyer during the game?!?! 

 

Not a wise decision when your employer is clearly scrambling & in damage control mode based on something that at the very least you were not forthcoming about.  Your new coach hasn't slept, has a daughter himself, and was clearly emotional and uncomfortable fielding questions while recognizing the gravity of the situation.

 

Matt & counsel, how exactly do you plan to "quickly set the record straight"?!?  It's already too late.

 

As a new employee of the organization, Araiza has bobbled the snap in the largest possible way.  There's probably ~60 guys with the talent to punt in the NFL at any given time.  Araiza will be cut today and replaced quite easily.  Sorry Matt, but them's the breaks.

 

[Wayne Cubed]

3 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

The head coach will be spending time on all this bull instead of getting his team ready.  Players will be asked questions about it. Fans will be asking questions about it. This is an issue no one in the organization needs to spend time on, especially in arguably the most important season in the team’s history. 
 

Araiza will need to work through his own process and, if the Bills cut him loose, he’ll be free to seek employment anywhere.  Being a football player is not a right.  He can get a job like the rest of us, using his valuable SDSU degree. 

Again, I gave you two examples that lasted an entire season and hung over the Pats**. Those same things happened. It didn’t effect them one bit.

 

And how would you actually know if it did. The Bills organisation is a tight ship, those things don’t leak out.

 

I seriously doubt McD is so distracted he can’t focus on the Rams right now. 

[hemma]

A Collective Bargaining Agreement (example -  unionized Civil Service employee) can stand first when it comes to terminating an employee.

I have no idea if that is the case with the NFL CBA, but a link to the 456 page pdf is here:

 

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/NFLPA/CBA2020/NFL-NFLPA_CBA_March_5_2020.pdf

[stevewin]

I'm interested to see if anything comes out that other teams were aware of this before the draft while the Bills just missed it

[Beerball]

5 minutes ago, Lost said:

I don't share @Chandler#81 sentiment here but he may be right, at least partially about him not being charged.  As @Delusional Bills Optimist posted in this thread, there is much higher burden of proof in the criminal arena.   

Burden of proof matters not one iota in the Bills cutting him. 
 

if he is fully exonerated down the road and a “preponderance of the evidence” indicates that he did nothing worse than have sex w a 17 year old then I will offer him my most sincere apologies.

[Billsatlastin2018]

5 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Actually they won't have to answer any of those questions. The problem goes away as soon as they release Araiza. They'll have one press conference after the release where McDermott basically gives all the same answers he did today and then that will be it. He will say:  "I'm not going to get into what we knew and when. I'll just say some new information came up recently (which he already admitted today). And in light of that new information, as an organization we have decided it is best to move on from Matt. And we are going to leave it at that."

 

Case closed. Time to get ready for the Rams.

Hmmm. Mostly agree with your take. However, I think it is incumbent upon a significant mgt. rep of the Bills to sketch out the pre Draft knowledge with now- especially as Araiza was a very known commodity and a very hot topic of Draft conversation on this very board!

 

That would be Beane Boy!

 

And like TODAY… before sunset!

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

Why would McDermott out and out defend him?? I don’t think that tells you anything at all.

 

A young woman was raped, there is no doubt about that. A Buffalo Bills player has been accused of involvement in that. Gather evidence and respect the victim.
 

McD isn’t a lawyer and he’s not working for the police. He won’t have all the information they have. It would be a PR disaster to come out and defend a player like that. 
 

That goes for any player who is accused or currently involved in an investigation.

Because he can be a valuable asset to your team because of his kicking talent. 

 

If he's gonna crash and burn professionally, it should be under your contract.  Don't release because you might see him on the other side of the ball. 

 

If he was a marginal talent,  which he's not, I'd say cut him.

 

Use him, if he crashes... Then he's totaled. 

 

 

[mannc]

13 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

This is the out and the way that McDermott gets out of this mess.  The Bills can say that the legal issues should run their courses.  But the separate issue is that Araiza was dishonest with the team about this incident, and that error, which is inconsistent organization ethos, is the ground for termination. 

 

It's telling to me that Araiza didn't wear the team logo at the stadium last night, and that McDermott didn't defend him (or at least suggest that brakes should be tapped in this situation) in the press conference.  

Just curious, what do you think Araiza lied about to the Bills?  

[UKBillFan]

2 minutes ago, stevewin said:

I'm interested to see if anything comes out that other teams were aware of this before the draft while the Bills just missed it

 

I think John Wawrow said yesterday that some teams were aware and others weren't. The Bills were apparently unaware.

[Simon]

1 minute ago, stevewin said:

I'm interested to see if anything comes out that other teams were aware of this before the draft while the Bills just missed it

 

There was a report buried in here somewhere that an NFL journalist spoke with 5 different front offices and of those 5, I think 2 of them were aware of and 3 of them were not aware before the draft. The 2 that were aware knew something was in the wind, but did not have any details.

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

his lawyer said it was not his residence. I think that would be even more damning.

If it was his residence, IMO it would be worse. More liability to what's taking place on your property.  

 

I think it helps him it wasn't his place (rent or own).

1 minute ago, mannc said:

Just curious, what do you think Araiza lied about to the Bills?  

The severity of what took place. ??

[WotAGuy]

5 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

Again, I gave you two examples that lasted an entire season and hung over the Pats**. Those same things happened. It didn’t effect them one bit.

 

And how would you actually know if it did. The Bills organisation is a tight ship, those things don’t leak out.

 

I seriously doubt McD is so distracted he can’t focus on the Rams right now. 

Did you see his press conference?  Why take on this bull for a rookie punter?

[finn]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

There was a report buried in here somewhere that an NFL journalist spoke with 5 different front offices and of those 5, I think 2 of them were aware of and 3 of them were not aware before the draft. The 2 that were aware knew something was in the wind, but did not have any details.

 

 

I wonder if the news was related to Araiza being the third punter drafted. I realize other factors were in play, but it could have been a key factor. 

[SectionC3]

5 minutes ago, HankBulloughMellencamp said:

 

I totally disagree.

 

I believe McDermott's "we have a lot of work to do" is more referring to doing some forensics on how this entire situation was something that ultimately blindsided & embarrassed them as a scouting staff.  And the reports of punt god walking into the stadium wearing no visible Bills logo, to me, only proves that point & seals his fate. 

 

And then... Araiza releases a statement while in exile in the stadium through his lawyer during the game?!?! 

 

Not a wise decision when your employer is clearly scrambling & in damage control mode based on something that at the very least you were not forthcoming about.  Your new coach hasn't slept, has a daughter himself, and was clearly emotional and uncomfortable fielding questions while recognizing the gravity of the situation.

 

Matt & counsel, how exactly do you plan to "quickly set the record straight"?!?  It's already too late.

 

As a new employee of the organization, Araiza has bobbled the snap in the largest possible way.  There's probably ~60 guys with the talent to punt in the NFL at any given time.  Araiza will be cut today and replaced quite easily.  Sorry Matt, but them's the breaks.

 

His attorney is out of his depth.  Releasing a statement during the game was absurd.   Not getting in front of this mess with the Bills was absurd.  Make it easy for corporation counsel to investigate.  Sounds like he didn't do that.  Now corp counsel (Russ Brandon's brother, FYI, and an inexperienced associate) is going to blame him.  And that blame is going to get pushed to Araiza.  And this will result in Araiza's termination. 

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

Just curious, what do you think Araiza lied about to the Bills?  

Lack of full disclosure.  McD (and anyone else associated with the Bills) shouldn't have learned anything new about this after July 30.  Particularly not last night.  I appreciate that I don't know that the new information was withheld by Araiza.  But I was asked what I think.  And that's what I suspect. 

[BillsFanSD]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

Just curious, what do you think Araiza lied about to the Bills?  

Hypothetically?  I can imagine a situation in which Araiza is confronted with this allegation a month ago.  He tells the Bills that nothing happened with him and Jane Doe -- she showed up, he saw she was drunk, he put her someplace where she could sleep it off, and he left.  That's it.  Then 48 hours ago the Bills learn about the pretextual calls . . . 

 

Obviously this is just my imagination.  Nobody in this thread has any idea what the Bills knew then or what they know now, who told what to whom, etc.  But if you work in a job that involves managing people, you know that folks sometimes tell stupid lies when they get in hot water.  Maybe Araiza did that and maybe he didn't.  Who knows.

[Wayne Cubed]

1 minute ago, WotAGuy said:

Did you see his press conference?  Why take on this bull for a rookie punter?

Yes I did.

 

As a coach, you have to handle difficult situations. What about 13 seconds? That was a complete cluster f. Is that a distraction? OR is it possible Coaches/Players/Teams are capable of drowning out the outside noise and focus?

 

Do you not remember all the members of the Pats** and Billy B having to sit in front of media and answer questions?

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Bills need to stay the course.  Don't cut.  They are committed. If he will work in the NFL... Bills took all the damage.   Not much more can happen to them now.  Get him ready for opening day and press on.  It's a civil case.  Unless it goes criminal, which seems odd it would go back that way, then cut.

 

Bills paid the down payment on his talent.

[BuffaloRebound]

They clearly should’ve kept Haack and put Araiza on the commissioner’s exempt list until this is sorted out due to the seriousness of the accusations.  

They can still sign a punter and put Araiza on exempt list but I’m sure McDermott is pissed that they’re starting over with a new punter/holder when Haack was on the roster 5 days ago.  

[ExiledInIllinois]

4 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Did you see his press conference?  Why take on this bull for a rookie punter?

Because the rough part is over. He will either win or make her whole.

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

 

The severity of what took place. ??

Well, the Bills were in direct communication with the plaintiff’s lawyer weeks ago, well before Haack was cut…so they had to have already known that the allegations were very serious…I don’t think the “Araiza misled the Bills” argument makes much sense.

[SectionC3]

4 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

There was a report buried in here somewhere that an NFL journalist spoke with 5 different front offices and of those 5, I think 2 of them were aware of and 3 of them were not aware before the draft. The 2 that were aware knew something was in the wind, but did not have any details.

 

 

To me the easy one is to look at the campus sexual assault reporting with respect to any player you're looking to bring in.  Campus sexual assault has been an issue at several college football programs recently.  Then, I don't know, make a phone call to the AD, to the coach, to campus police and see if there's anything you need to know about these prospects.  It doesn't even have to be "is this guy involved in this issue?"  It can be as simple as "should I keep looking on this issue?" or "do you have any character concerns, even if you can't get into specifics?" or "is there anything that you can't tell me that might embarrass me later?"  It's not that hard.  Two teams were able to figure this out.  Why weren't we?  That's a problem.  

Just now, ExiledInIllinois said:

Because the rough part is over. He will either win or make her whole.

Don't forget prison.  He may go to prison.  He's not out of the woods yet there. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Just now, mannc said:

Well, the Bills were in direct communication with the plaintiff’s lawyer weeks ago, well before Haack was cut…so they had to have already known that the allegations were very serious…I don’t think the “Araiza misled the Bills” argument makes much sense.

Fair.  Having a hard time too with that.

Plaintiff went nuclear.  Just press on.  Don't want to get into it  here.  But it works for some very big wigs out there. 😏