2023 Extension? (Poyer/Edmunds/Knox/Oliver)

[elijah]

18 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Did I miss something? I’ve seen this a couple of times lately on here but no one has said where they saw this 

I didn’t see her say all that was quoted but I did see a tweet that was deleted, forgot what it said but the overall sentiment was that they’re (she’s) not happy 

[Mango]

Buffalo is estimated to have $2M free next year. 
 

The chips are in the center of the table. 2022 is the giddy up year. 

[DCbillsfan]

4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I believe they have already picked up his 5th year option for next year.  That is done and set.

 

 

You may be right.  I missed it if so.  I know Beane said he wanted to do it.

[Turbo44]

14 minutes ago, Mango said:

Buffalo is estimated to have $2M free next year. 
 

The chips are in the center of the table. 2022 is the giddy up year. 

with the cap going up $25m? If so, that's really low, though more restructures are possible

[Mango]

11 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

with the cap going up $25m? If so, that's really low, though more restructures are possible

Spotrac is estimating $218M. Which might be a bit conservative. The highest estimates I’ve seen for 2023 are $225M. Could maybe be more but $9M isn’t huge either with Singletary, Knox, and Poyer needing new contracts. 
 

I am happy to have Miller and Stef but it will certainly come at a cost the next few years. We will have to get more immediate production from our top 100 picks moving forward if we want the window to stay open. 

[billybrew1]

As the vote is showing, if we can keep only two, let them be Dawson and Ed.

 

Though losing Jordan and Tremaine would be painful…. Very painful. Probably take us out of being a Super Bowl favorite.

Even if we drafted both spots next year….No compensation until the following year…. Yikes!

I coulda swore we signed OJ to two years…. I was hoping he could cover for a year….but no…

I don’t think we can carry three TEs this year….we need that FB, no? Lotta ST snaps and FB and TE? Lotta snaps….

[ganesh]

5 hours ago, Augie said:

I agree Oliver and Knox are the priorities there. I hope we can keep them all at the right price, but you need the young up-an-comers. I’ve always liked Knox more than most, even when he battled with the dropsies. I LOVE his trajectory and ceiling. Oliver is too good to let him get away easy, and I think his best years are ahead of him as well. 

 

Singletary shouldn’t cost much to keep. It always comes down to the dollars. 

 

This just goes to show how critical the draft is. You have to keep restocking the shelves with cheap labor. You can’t pay everyone top dollar! 

 

.

They are not going to pay $5M a year for Singletary.  I see them drafting Hall this year in the 1st round (or trading up in the 2nd round)

[Dopey]

6 hours ago, TBBills said:

Wow people actually want to keep Edmunds here.

Yes, I do.

[Don Otreply]

Who gets extended? 
 

Ask Brandon Beane, he’s certain to loop you in…,  

[BillsShredder83]

5 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

So who starts in the middle if Edmunds is traded.  A rookie? 

Im not an Edmunds basher, at all. Hes basically a huge zone dead center of our zone. I think our scheme revolves around having this kind of guy.  That said, he's not impossible to replace. Draft his replacement this year, start Tremaine, and let him walk next year. Theres no reason to get cute here and trade his services for whats realistically a 3rd. Id rather have a SB this year, than an extra 3rd (or second or even first honestly).

This buys the rookie some time to get up to speed.

 

Im extending Knox and Oliver, see if maybe we can tag Poyer, depending on his receptiveness to it.

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Im not an Edmunds basher, at all. Hes basically a huge zone dead center of our zone. I think our scheme revolves around having this kind of guy.  That said, he's not impossible to replace. Draft his replacement this year, start Tremaine, and let him walk next year. Theres no reason to get cute here and trade his services for whats realistically a 3rd. Id rather have a SB this year, than an extra 3rd (or second or even first honestly).

This buys the rookie some time to get up to speed.

 

Im extending Knox and Oliver, see if maybe we can tag Poyer, depending on his receptiveness to it.

I've bashed him a handful of times recently just because that's the cool thing to do lately. 

 

That being said, watching buffalo plus recently Dan fetes pointed out some things that were kind of eye opening to me. 

 

Edmunds pre-draft scouting weaknesses are the same weaknesses that he has shown after being in the league for 4 years. 

 

Instincts are average and relies on athletic gifts

 

Can be a step slow to diagnose

 

Lured by misdirection

 

Will take random downhill paths that trap him in the quagmire

 

Whether you want to blame coaching or the player, the fact is these issues are still apparent. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by The Wiz

[BillsShredder83]

25 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I've bashed him a handful of times recently just because that's the cool thing to do lately. 

 

That being said, watching buffalo plus recently Dan fetes pointed out some things that were kind of eye opening to me. 

 

Edmunds pre-draft scouting weaknesses are the same weaknesses that he has shown after being in the league for 4 years. 

 

Instincts are average and relies on athletic gifts

 

Can be a step slow to diagnose

 

Lured by misdirection

 

Will take random downhill paths that trap him in the quagmire

 

Whether you want to blame coaching or the player, the fact is these issues are still apparent. 

bad angles! i dont understand how a LB is still taking terrible angles. no nfl trait is a gimme, but taking proper angles has got to be one of the easier traits to have

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

Buffalo is estimated to have $2M free next year. 
 

The chips are in the center of the table. 2022 is the giddy up year. 

We started this offseason with negative cap space. Just saying.

[BillsFan619]

10 hours ago, elijah said:

Between the contracts and money handed out this offseason, Poyer changing agents and very polarizing opinions on Edmunds this is starting to become a pretty hot topic on Twitter. 

 

Right now according to Over The Cap, the Bills are projected to have around $21,868,000 in 2023 Cap Space. With that cap space, Jordan Poyer, Tremaine Edmunds, Ed Oliver, Dawson Knox and Devin Singletary will all be due extensions. The Spotrac market value numbers are as follows, 

 

Jordan Poyer: 2yrs/$23M

Tremaine Edmunds: 4yrs/$55M

Dawson Knox: 3yrs/$25M

Ed Oliver: $10M-$15M per year

Devin Singletary: $4M-$8M per year

 

Oliver & Singletary didn’t have market values yet, so just rough guesstimates for them two. 

 

With that being said, Beane can easily clear more space next year by restructuring bonuses for Allen, Miller and Diggs, among the other magic he works.

 

Assuming Beane can only extend 3 of these guys, as that seems like the logical number with the projected cap space and cap hits, who does TBD think it would be? 

 

My own take, and I suppose part of the motivation in creating this thread, would be a hot take for most in that Edmunds gets his extension before/rather than Knox getting an extension. 

 

I think Ed Oliver is the only lock on the list for the extension and Beane has come close to saying so himself. As for Poyer, I think he’s an integral part of the defense and there’s only noise right now because he switched his agent (and a particularly noisy sidekick acting as she does). He’s coming off of an all-pro year, and a $12M/year contract on a short term deal shouldn’t price Beane out of a top 3 safety tandem in the league. 

 

As for Edmunds, I’m an Edmunds truther (apologist?). Believe it or not, he’s only 23 years old going into his 5th season! 😆 But jokes aside, NFL execs love him for a reason. He’s fast, lengthy and just starting to come into his own. 

 

If Beane could make the numbers for Knox work, I’m not here to say that Knox won’t get extended. But with the Bills projected to be tight to the cap, I just don’t see how Knox works in with the numbers. In my scenario, between Poyer, Edmunds and Oliver you’re looking at about $35M-$40M of extension money and maybe more. 

 

Knox had a good development year, but it was just that, a good development year. I think fans have taken a 9 TD season and some big plays in big moments, and started to convince themselves he’s a cornerstone and vital piece of the offense. In reality, he only had 49 receptions (18th among TE’s) and 587 yards (15th). He’s just an average tight end in a WR-driven offense. 

 

What say you, TBD? 

Poyer, Knox and Oliver

[LeGOATski]

Edmunds, Knox, Oliver. The young core guys.

[machine gun kelly]

11 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Poyer soon, Knox and Oliver next spring.

 

Edmunds traded

 

Devin UFA

I can see a 2 year extension for poyer given his last year and maybe a lower contract but a ton guaranteed.  $20 mil., but $15 guaranteed.

 

I absolutely see Oliver and Knox getting extensions when in their last year.  I have no issues with Edmunds, but with these extensions, he may be the odd man out.  This team can only pay so many guys.  Someone is out on musical chairs.

[GunnerBill]

Ed Oliver and Dawson Knox. 

[Thurman#1]

19 hours ago, wppete said:

We need to lock up Big Ed right now before he has his breakout season. 

 

 

We've got Ed for two more years, with 2023 guaranteed at $10.7M. We'd save by extending him, unlike the others.

 

So I think Knox - Edmunds - Oliver. 

 

Then have to give up on one of Poyer and Singletary, very probably to be fore-shadowed by who they bring in in the first four or so rounds this year.

 

I can see them only bringing back two of them, though.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Thurman#1

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

the hate for Edmonds is strong with this crowd 

[mjt328]

20 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Did I miss something? I’ve seen this a couple of times lately on here but no one has said where they saw this 

 

Twitter.  Rachel Bush is very active, and isn't shy about stating her opinions.

Now she didn't come straight-out and say they were upset.  But if you read between the lines... it was pretty obvious.

 

First there was a comment Bush made immediately after the Von Miller signing, which (paraphrasing) suggested we needed to pay the current Bills players first, because they were the #1 Defense in the league.  Especially the guy who was a 1st Team All-Pro.  That was probably the first red flag that Poyer wasn't happy, especially because other Bills players were celebrating and getting excited about their new teammate.

 

Then after the Stephon Diggs contract was announced, she retweeted someone's comment questioning why Diggs was prioritized with 2-years left on his deal, but Poyer was still unsigned with 1-year left.  Then only hours later, you have Poyer loudly announcing his change in agents.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by mjt328

[JerseyBills]

On 4/8/2022 at 2:23 PM, Warriorspikes51 said:

Poyer soon, Knox and Oliver next spring.

 

Edmunds traded

 

Devin UFA

Edmunds is like 22 right. He's been a Captain for multiple years on a top 5 or better defense.  He's our QB on defense, I believe he'll be priority number 1 out of all of em. I believe the staff loves him and the fans got it wrong. Knox and Oliver right behind in that order 

I Would love to see Poyer get an extension, but it has to be reasonable or probably a little less than his market value. If he was under 30 , sure , but we can't keep em all

[DCofNC]

Knox is a rising star, this year will determine how big of a star people think he can be.   He may get monster money, maybe just good money.  I’d like him back, but money talks.

 

Oliver, good player, not worth a monster deal though.  We’ll see what this year says.

 

Edmunds, I hope the dude gets PAID, by the Dolphins.

 

Motor isn’t going to be big money.

 

Poyer will be decided upon after the Edmunds decision is made, if he gets another couple years, Edmunds is gone.  I like him, but she and body abuse is a question.. if he and Edmunds end up gone, won’t be shocked.

[DapperCam]

Oliver is going to get paid big time. I could see the team walking away from giving him a huge deal. I guess it depends on the cap.

[Bruffalo]

I just don't see a justification for extending Poyer, as much as I like him.  I'm not even saying that he doesn't deserve an extension, I think he probably does, I don't see how the Bills could swing it though.

[BuffaloBill]

On 4/8/2022 at 2:33 PM, TBBills said:

Wow people actually want to keep Edmunds here.

 

 

Yes, he eats up space in the Bills heavily dependent “coverage defense.”  I just don’t see the Bills front office letting him go.  On the other hand, it is very telling that they have not already extended him. Based on the latter I could be very wrong.

[T master]

I read in a article that Poyer with getting his new agent is looking to sign 1 last really big contract & that he has been giving the Bills a home town discount & in some ways feel he's been shorted money wise & if what he's looking for is a huge contract i don't think it will happen but i would like to see him end his career as a Bill .

[YoloinOhio]

 

Ed is gonna be $$$$$

[AuntieEm]

On 4/8/2022 at 3:00 PM, mushypeaches said:

I'm laughing at the thought of fans viewing Knox as average.  He doesn't have all the fancy receiving stats yet because he's sharing targets with a pretty strong group of WR's in a dynamic offense.  But he was a game changer at several points last year and took a huge step forward.  He'll be a $12M/year player on his next contract and that might be on the low 

 

 

   I've always liked Knox since his angry runs when he was a rookie.  Just can see how his compete meshes with Josh's.  Yes he definitely will be fielding some top TE numbers if he is alowed to get to FA.  The question will come down to whether or not that chemistry and that fit is more important to Knox and he agrees to a team friendly extension to remain in Buffalo.  

 

Knox did just buy a home in Buffalo.  Doesn't guarantee he already knows or plans on remaining in Buffalo but it sure could mean one of those scenarios is in play as we are not privy to what conversations take place between players, agents and the team.  But buying your first home is still a major commitment and for someone whose career can be one that is subject to sudden relocations, I tend to think he is planning on staying in Buffalo and it isn't because he's addicted to the wings and blue cheese.   I'm sure he had been renting something that was suitable for his lifestyle so he didn't need to buy a home here unless he had plans on remaining long term.  

 

   So the obvious friendship, chemistry Knox has with Allen and his buying a home here I'm fairly confident he's not looking at money as the priority in his next contract.  I think beane has a good grasp on how to time the contract talks and think he maintains ongoing conversations with his players and their agents that are based on respect and honesty.   I don't ever see Beane have to deal with a situation like when we lost Jason Peters.  I think Beane would have adjusted the pay when he clearly outperformed the salary based on playing rt then blossoming as an elite lt.  Of course easier to pay a kings random to protect a Josh Allen than to pay top lt money to protect Trent Edwards with JP Losman as his backup.  If the sides were too far apart and still negotiating I don't think Knox buys the home.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by AuntieEm

[ColoradoBills]

Spotrac has the Bills over next year's cap by $12M with them already adding $10M to this year's cap.

Cap is probably going up more than that but by how much Beane and the other GMs know better than us.

Bills won't be carrying over anything significant into 2023 from this year.

Even though they show 55 players (59 but 4 are voids) next year a whole bunch of those guys won't be on the team by cutdown and Beane

will have to restructure some contracts just to get the other depth players signed or replaced from this year's players.

 

Ed Oliver is already on his 5th year option, so it won't get done until next season (probably in the summer).

Knox is the first to get the decision after the season is up.  I think he signs a fairly decent contract for both sides.

Poyer is going to want longer terms and more money than Beane can afford, I think he walks in FA.

Singletary will be testing the market and probably get what he wants and moves on.  Then again, if he doesn't get the money he may stay.

     It's hard to estimate the RB UFA market.

I truly have no idea what will happen with Edmunds.  They would want to keep him, but I think he is the guy that will depend on where the cap is going.

[strive_for_five_guy]

6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Spotrac has the Bills over next year's cap by $12M with them already adding $10M to this year's cap.

Cap is probably going up more than that but by how much Beane and the other GMs know better than us.

Bills won't be carrying over anything significant into 2023 from this year.

Even though they show 55 players (59 but 4 are voids) next year a whole bunch of those guys won't be on the team by cutdown and Beane

will have to restructure some contracts just to get the other depth players signed or replaced from this year's players.

 

Ed Oliver is already on his 5th year option, so it won't get done until next season (probably in the summer).

Knox is the first to get the decision after the season is up.  I think he signs a fairly decent contract for both sides.

Poyer is going to want longer terms and more money than Beane can afford, I think he walks in FA.

Singletary will be testing the market and probably get what he wants and moves on.  Then again, if he doesn't get the money he may stay.

     It's hard to estimate the RB UFA market.

I truly have no idea what will happen with Edmunds.  They would want to keep him, but I think he is the guy that will depend on where the cap is going.

Do you think they use the franchise tag on any of these guys?

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Do you think they use the franchise tag on any of these guys?

 

I don't think so.  If anyone I guess maybe Edmunds.  If they did that it would be to get his replacement ready.

I think Beane is pretty straight with his thoughts, and I get the feeling he doesn't like having to use them.

Edited August 3, 2022 by ColoradoBills

[gobills404]

4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I don't think so.  If anyone I guess maybe Edmunds.  If they did that it would be to get his replacement ready.

I think Beane is pretty straight with his thoughts, and I get the feeling he doesn't like having to use them.

The LB franchise tag is super inflated by 3-4 edge rushers classified as linebackers. No way they give Edmunds $18.7 million for 1 season.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 4/8/2022 at 2:59 PM, MAJBobby said:

Priority in order

 

Oliver - Do an Allen type extension. Add 4 years to his Rookie deal. 
 

Edmunds - new Deal 5 years 50M (He means more to the Bills than fans want to believe) 

 

Knox - 6 year Deal. Probably at the 11M AAV range. (Could be a Tag Option) 

 

Singletary - I wouldn’t extend a RB 

 

Poyer - I would play this season out and put the Tag on him as long as I can get Knox Done 

NO

 

No

 

Yes

 

Yes

 

Meh

 

[wppete]

Has to be Ed and Knox.

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, gobills404 said:

The LB franchise tag is super inflated by 3-4 edge rushers classified as linebackers. No way they give Edmunds $18.7 million for 1 season.

 

Your right.  I keep forgetting they include the Edge Rushers in LB instead of DE.

Truthfully it hurts the "classic" linebackers if you ask me.

I went back and crossed out that statement.

Edited August 3, 2022 by ColoradoBills

[Aussie Joe]

3 years for $25M seems too good to be true for Knox..

 

4 years for $50M might be the best case

[strive_for_five_guy]

4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I don't think so.  If anyone I guess maybe Edmunds.  If they did that it would be to get his replacement ready.

I think Beane is pretty straight with his thoughts, and I get the feeling he doesn't like having to use them.

For some reason I was thinking the franchise tag didn’t count against the cap, but just looked it up and apparently does.  Given there’s not even that benefit, doesn’t really seem like an approach Beane would generally take with a player.

[Victory Formation]

Oliver, Knox, Singletary, Poyer, Edmunds (in that order).

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

For some reason I was thinking the franchise tag didn’t count against the cap, but just looked it up and apparently does.  Given there’s not even that benefit, doesn’t really seem like an approach Beane would generally take with a player.

He hasn’t used it in the past and I agree I don’t think he would prefer to do so but in a SB window… could see him tagging Knox out of anyone because the TE cap hit isn’t as high 

[Pete]

Ed and Knox are no brainers imo.  Oliver and Von Miller will be a ferocious tandem together