Tre White knee injury UPDATE: Out for the Season Notification top of page 1

[BarleyNY]

6 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

The coaching staff seems to be pretty high on Jaquan Johnson at S… we’ve just never really seen him play because of Poyer and Hyde. AJ Klein is definitely a good 3rd LB. 

 

I don’t know what you’re looking for depth wise. Name another team in the NFL that has the starting caliber  safeties and linebackers we have? Of course there is going to be a drop off from Hyde and Poyer who are both arguably playing at an All-Pro level. Of course there is a drop off from White who is an All-Pro. Of course our other LB can’t cover like Milano and Edmunds. 
 

It’s because those guys listed are some of the best in the league at what they do… 

Again, my issues aren’t with starters.  I’m very happy with them.  Better depth players would not have been expensive and should’ve been acquired.

 

Klein is limited and massively overpaid.  He is not good in coverage and he’s not good against the run.  About the only thing I want to see him do is rush the passer - and we have plenty of those players already.  If you don’t believe me, then believe McD.  There is a reason that even against offenses trotting out run packages they have been playing nickel and keeping Johnson on the field and Klein on the bench. 

[BarleyNY]

7 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

 

His words were "Yet again, this is all on Beane" which sort of implies he's made a LOT of ***** ups. The guy has made mistakes like any GM, but he's also pulled this team out of the sewer. 

 

 

Okay, but I’d say there’s a difference between being frustrated by multiple mistakes and calling a guy trash and calling for his job.  No one expects Beane and McDermott to be perfect.  I think most of us are thankful that they’ve turned this team around - and they’ve gotten a lot of love for that already.  But they should be accountable for their mistakes too.

[Dr. Who]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

Okay, but I’d say there’s a difference between being frustrated by multiple mistakes and calling a guy trash and calling for his job.  No one expects Beane and McDermott to be perfect.  I think most of us are thankful that they’ve turned this team around - and they’ve gotten a lot of love for that already.  But they should be accountable for their mistakes too.

That's a complex thought. I'll allow it, but watching you . . . 

[HOUSE]

Promote from within

Play more Zone

Maximize the pass rush

[Arkady Renko]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It may, it may not.  If there's swelling they need to wait for it to go down before they take an MRI.

They should know based on the physical exam whether it was a tear.  MRIs rarely change the diagnosis. 

[SWATeam]

2 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said:

They should know based on the physical exam whether it was a tear.  MRIs rarely change the diagnosis. 

Based on Tre's demeanor after the physical exam, I'm sure we have a good idea. 

[Gen2]

I have a reliable source that says Vontae Davis is available.

 

 

Get er done Brandon

 

 

 

I'm kidding ... just kidding

 

 

well I'm NOT kidding about Davis' availability, but I AM kidding about wanting the Bills to waste a dime on the phone call to him

[JGMcD2]

20 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Again, my issues aren’t with starters.  I’m very happy with them.  Better depth players would not have been expensive and should’ve been acquired.

 

Klein is limited and massively overpaid.  He is not good in coverage and he’s not good against the run.  About the only thing I want to see him do is rush the passer - and we have plenty of those players already.  If you don’t believe me, then believe McD.  There is a reason that even against offenses trotting out run packages they have been playing nickel and keeping Johnson on the field and Klein on the bench. 

Who are these better depth players that could’ve been acquired that you’re referring to? 
 

Johnson is out there because he’s one of our best players - that’s not a negative towards Klein. Klein is our 3rd LB. He’s depth… sorry he’s being used as depth instead of playing over Taron Johnson? Taron is fantastic in run support and gives you flexibility to defend the pass. 

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said:

They should know based on the physical exam whether it was a tear.  MRIs rarely change the diagnosis. 

This is just not true. The maneuvers are good predictors but not perfect.

[Mr. K]

Best player on defense at the most important position in the scheme. Its going to be rough on our DBs if they can't be effective in coverage. Especially with the pass rush not consistently getting to the QB.

[Joe Ferguson]

1 hour ago, Billever76 said:

You know tre hasnt allowed a td all year right?

How did he do against Titans and Colts? How did the Bucs beat Patrick Mahomes in the Super Bowl, were their cornerbacks better than Tre? We are blowing this Tre injury way out of proportion. Dane Jackson will fill in nicely for him. Not worried at all.

[Big Turk]

35 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Hate losing White but the greatest advantage of being a zone coverage defense is that you can get by with less natural ability at the corner positions.

 

They could still win a SB with this secondary.   Worse have done so.    But they need the DL to improve........better pass rush and more consistent run D.

 

And more importantly they need the offense to start executing with precision.   That first half was again very sloppy.   And the OL is still letting a free rusher come thru far too often.   

 

Except they have been playing a lot more man the past 2 years...

[Doc]

52 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

There better be unless the class was a complete bust. How many CB's are we talking here like 30 or 40?

 

No idea.  Just asking.

[HappyDays]

 

[Doc]

Why not just sign Dunbar to the PS anyway?  More CB depth is always good.

[Mat68]

Lets see what the actual Injury is.  Web M.D and other internet guesses are just that guesses. Hopefully not as bad as it looked.

[aristocrat]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

The lions cut him this year.  So did the cards and packers. 

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

Lets see what the actual Injury is.  Web M.D and other internet guesses are just that guesses. Hopefully not as bad as it looked.

 

It's bad...the player always knows.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Just now, Doc said:

Why not just sign Dunbar to the PS anyway?  More CB depth is always good.

 

Especially when Wildgoose was signed off our ours by the Jets. Not sure if we signed anyone after that or not. 

[BarleyNY]

16 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Who are these better depth players that could’ve been acquired that you’re referring to? 
 

Johnson is out there because he’s one of our best players - that’s not a negative towards Klein. Klein is our 3rd LB. He’s depth… sorry he’s being used as depth instead of playing over Taron Johnson? Taron is fantastic in run support and gives you flexibility to defend the pass. 

I agree on Johnson and I advocated for extending him before that happened.  My point on Klein was that he’s expensive but not very good depth.  He also limits our ability to put a 3rd LB on the field when teams are loading up an running the ball.  I have covered some of the possible depth additions in the past.  I’m. It going to do that again.  Do your own homework.  Just look at free agency signings this past off-season and you can see that good depth was not that expensive. 

[Greatdane21]

High probability that the bills will be in the market for another CB ,is it time to poach from someone’s practice team if so who? 

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

I agree on Johnson and I advocated for extending him before that happened.  My point on Klein was that he’s expensive but not very good depth.  He also limits our ability to put a 3rd LB on the field when teams are loading up an running the ball.  I have covered some of the possible depth additions in the past.  I’m. It going to do that again.  Do your own homework.  Just look at free agency signings this past off-season and you can see that good depth was not that expensive. 

 

Klein has mostly played very well since they figured out how to use his skills better, not sure what you are talking about

[Big Blitz]

The Bucs made the Super Bowl without Vita Vea.

 

The Packers Defense has remained top 10 without Alexander.  

 

 

That's it.  That's all I got.   

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

I agree on Johnson and I advocated for extending him before that happened.  My point on Klein was that he’s expensive but not very good depth.  He also limits our ability to put a 3rd LB on the field when teams are loading up an running the ball.  I have covered some of the possible depth additions in the past.  I’m. It going to do that again.  Do your own homework.  Just look at free agency signings this past off-season and you can see that good depth was not that expensive. 

 

And yet we don't know if any of those depth options are better than Dane Jackson. They are cheap options for a reason. Bills heavily invested in the D-line rotation the last two years because, well the rotation sucked and we desperately needed a better pass rush. The super bowl was a glaring example of what a good pass rush can do for a team. The investment went to the d-line and I think pretty much everyone should agree with that decision. Whether the d-line is producing at the level we need is another story. 

[34-78-83]

2 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

The Bills have been playing with fire for years with no CB depth.  They have been incredibly lucky, but yet again, this is all on Beane.

False. The Bills secondary is as or more deep than most of the teams in the league. Almost all teams are in trouble when they get to their 3rd corner having to start. Look at the rosters around the league.

[billsintaiwan]

9 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Lets see what the actual Injury is.  Web M.D and other internet guesses are just that guesses. Hopefully not as bad as it looked.

I do a lot of my own research and I'm pretty sure Tre White caught HIV from the AstroTurf.

 

All medical research roads on the internet lead to HIV.

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Fuller has played terribly the last year.  You stop to think that maybe our backups are better?

 

It will suck if Tre has an ACL.  Odds are they’ll scour some rosters to bring in another CB.  But the two backups will play more now.  Welcome to the NFL.

No, I don’t stop to think that. I think that the Bills continued to play Vernon Butler. I think that they continue to play Cody Ford. I think that they sat/inactivated Brieda for weeks because of Moss/Motor. Fuller was top 100 player in league 2 years ago. There’s no way to conclude that Jackson/Lewis is better. Fuller’s experience alone gives him the nod. Did Beane attempt to acquire him, I don’t know but if not it was a failure on his part imo

[Mr. K]

We just need to pray for the health of Poyer and Hyde. You can cover up a bad haircut with a good hat. Just an analogy we will have to wait and see how Taron Johnson, Cam Lewis, Dane Jackson and Siran Neal play. Do we really think they are going out of house for help? I'd like it but its not a promised  thing.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Just now, 34-78-83 said:

False. The Bills secondary is as or more deep than most of the teams in the league. Almost all teams are in trouble when they get to their 3rd corner having to start. Look at the rosters around the league.

 

Exactly. Some folks just want more warm bodies on the sideline I guess. I don't get how that helps the Bills. Bills only play three CB's a game for the most part and all three are above average for their positions #1, #2 and nickle corner. Can't ask for much better than that while still needing to field a 53 man roster. Injuries happen in the NFL and now it is time for us to deal with one. 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Solomon Grundy said:

No, I don’t stop to think that. I think that the Bills continued to play Vernon Butler. I think that they continue to play Cody Ford. I think that they sat/inactivated Brieda for weeks because of Moss/Motor. Fuller was top 100 player in league 2 years ago. There’s no way to conclude that Jackson/Lewis is better. Fuller’s experience alone gives him the nod. Did Beane attempt to acquire him, I don’t know but if not it was a failure on his part imo

Well aren’t you the smart one.

[Solomon Grundy]

16 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

The lions cut him this year.  So did the cards and packers. 

Umm…Rasul Douglas was a castaway in Arizona but made probably the biggest play for the Packers this season against his former team. Experience at DB, at this time, can plug the hole with the loss of Tre

[Success]

We've been really lucky w/ injuries over the past 2 seasons.

 

Still hoping that this isn't worst case scenario - but if it is, this is still an excellent secondary & defense, and I'm sure they'll find someone capable to add to the roster.  

 

Remember when everyone counted the Ravens out after their early-season injuries?  Good teams figure it out.

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Prince Amukamara🤷‍♂️

Edited November 26, 2021 by Brianmoorman4jesus

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I do have confidence when it comes to DBs with McDermott. He seems to have the touch with them.

[Hebert19]

Can totally see us playing more 4-3 depending on the team.  Especially against pats. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

16 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Exactly. Some folks just want more warm bodies on the sideline I guess. I don't get how that helps the Bills. Bills only play three CB's a game for the most part and all three are above average for their positions #1, #2 and nickle corner. Can't ask for much better than that while still needing to field a 53 man roster. Injuries happen in the NFL and now it is time for us to deal with one. 

Like I posted before the season started you do that by not wasting roster spots on special teams only players.  Any backup CBcan do what Taiwan Jones can do. Kumerow has done nothing all year. Those are two spots that could have been used for a DB.

[DJB]

Looks like he will need it amputated. 

[BADOLBILZ]

41 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Except they have been playing a lot more man the past 2 years...

 

Not having White doesn't change the basic objective of the defense,   which is to encourage the offense to take small gains and hope they can't execute.

 

And they can still run man........Jackson can cover.........but from what we've seen there will be chances for teams to create some bigger plays in the pass game.   They most likely won't be as efficient with regard to not giving up chunk plays in the pass game but that doesn't necessarily mean they will be scorched now.

 

And perhaps not having White back there lights a fire under this pass rush.    Sometimes losing a star player can help a unit find another level of effort and focus.   That really has been the biggest issue with the team this year........being focused on the task at hand.  

 

And also..........the real weakness of the defense has been their want-to and technique in run defense.   With White out.........maybe teams will be more inclined to try to throw the ball a bit more.   I still prefer the Bills chances defending the pass.......so more throws is better, IMO.

 

But ultimately it's on the offense to stop being so erratic.   Allen is a huge game-changing weapon who can keep 2-3 otherwise stalled drives alive with his athleticism every game..........so if they are executing they should be nearly unstoppable.

 

That's clearly been the most discouraging part of the season to this point.......they get stopped by their own often-inexplicable mistakes far more than they get well-defensed.  They need to be focused and start being better than the sum of their parts.    That's what championship teams do down the stretch.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[BarleyNY]

8 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

Can totally see us playing more 4-3 depending on the team.  Especially against pats. 

 

I am very interested to see how NE attacks our defense now.  Do they line up heavy and run the ball?  Do they go light with a bunch of WRs and line up 3,4&5 wide to stress our secondary?  I’d think the former is more likely, but IDK.

[Success]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

 

I am very interested to see how NE attacks our defense now.  Do they line up heavy and run the ball?  Do they go light with a bunch of WRs and line up 3,4&5 wide to stress our secondary?  I’d think the former is more likely, but IDK.

 

We're a bit fortunate in the next opponent.  The Pats are built to be run heavy regardless, and while their passing game is efficient, their WR corps hardly strikes fear in anyone.  It's more about covering the TE's w/ them, and stopping the run.