Team culture has changed. What about the fan culture?

[TC in St. Louis]

Like most Bills fans, I've been watching every game for many years; never missed a game during the drought.  Spend nearly every day during the offseason keeping track of all the moves, entered just about every season with optimism, but was never shocked at the disappointments.  

 

But when this new regime took over, they promised to change the culture.  A few years into it, the only remnants of the old team are Jerry Hughes and our long snapper.  It's like we're an entire new organization.  

 

That being true, then our fan base should have developed a new culture.  We are entitled to expect winning football.  We should be rid of that gut feeling of pending doom.  We should accept that losses will happen, even if the team is great.  We should be feeling like the fans of the team that was 13-3 and made it to the conference championship game.  We should have faith in this team, shrug off the loss and feel like it's gonna be okay.

 

I still have that bad feeling in my gut...that we're gonna lose this week.

 

I hope we have a new fan culture, because I need it.  

Edited September 17, 2021 by TC in St. Louis

[Greg S]

It will probably take a Super Bowl win for the fan culture to really change. Until the Bills win it all there will always be some doubt that something bad will happen even with the team good again.

[mushypeaches]

6 minutes ago, Greg S said:

It will probably take a Super Bowl win for the fan culture to really change. Until the Bills win it all there will always be some doubt that something bad will happen even with the team good again.

 

That's exactly it - I won't ever be able to even begin to get over my worry until after we've hoisted the trophy

[The Wiz]

Meh, it's just a game and entertainment; not like I obsess over it.

 

*checks post count*

 

I mean, I try not too anyways.

Edited September 16, 2021 by The Wiz

[jkeerie]

14 minutes ago, TC in St. Louis said:

Like most Bills fans, I've been watching every game for many years; never missed a game during the drought.  Spend nearly every day during the offseason keeping track of all the moves, entered just about every season with optimism, but was never shocked when at the disappointments.  

 

But when this new regime took over, they promised to change the culture.  A few years into it, the only remnants of the old team are Jerry Hughes and our long snapper.  It's like we're an entire new organization.  

 

That being true, then our fan base should have developed a new culture.  We are entitled to expect winning football.  We should be rid of that gut feeling of pending doom.  We should accept that losses will happen, even if the team is great.  We should be feeling like the fans of the team that was 13-3 and made it to the conference championship game.  We should have faith in this team, shrug off the loss and feel like it's gonna be okay.

 

I still have that bad feeling in my gut...that we're gonna lose this week.

 

I hope we have a new fan culture, because I need it.  

This is very valid.  Quite honestly, I was concerned that the fan base was overly confident even to the point of arrogance.   I never take anything for granted.  On any given Sunday, any team can win.  As Chris Berman would say, "That's why they play the game!"    The Bills need to play their best every week and get used to playing their best.  I'll be nervous this weekend as I am every weekend, until they're up by 21 with 2 min to play.   So...your feelings are understandable. 

[LeGOATski]

Bills fan culture has already started to change, I think, with more optimism and confidence. However, fans will always be a week-to-week animal with shortsighted views and the tendency to self-project on the team.

[MPL]

Changing organizational culture is like turning a giant container ship. 

Changing fan culture is also like turning a giant container ship, but that ship is in the Suez Canal. 

We'll get there eventually. 

Maybe?

Edited September 16, 2021 by MPL

[Tenhigh]

34 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

You think? 
 

Wasn’t their a thread on here asking the question if we are going to behave like Patriots fans now that we are destined for greatness.😅

 

Teams go from really good to bad year in and year out…. So it wouldn’t be all that shocking to see them have a rough year. 

You can dream, Scotty, you can dream.  But please keep your failure pron to a minimum. 

[Success]

I mean, the Red Sox have won 4 championships since 2004 - and their fans still go instant doom when the team loses. Especially to the Yankees.

 

Some things become genetic.  It will take a LOT of wins for Bills fans to fundamentally change their outlook (imo).  We're more optimistic in general, but all it takes is a loss like this past Sunday for doubt to creep in & say, "hey, I've been here all along."

 

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, TC in St. Louis said:

Like most Bills fans, I've been watching every game for many years; never missed a game during the drought.  Spend nearly every day during the offseason keeping track of all the moves, entered just about every season with optimism, but was never shocked when at the disappointments.  

 

But when this new regime took over, they promised to change the culture.  A few years into it, the only remnants of the old team are Jerry Hughes and our long snapper.  It's like we're an entire new organization.  

 

That being true, then our fan base should have developed a new culture.  We are entitled to expect winning football.  We should be rid of that gut feeling of pending doom.  We should accept that losses will happen, even if the team is great.  We should be feeling like the fans of the team that was 13-3 and made it to the conference championship game.  We should have faith in this team, shrug off the loss and feel like it's gonna be okay.

 

I still have that bad feeling in my gut...that we're gonna lose this week.

 

I hope we have a new fan culture, because I need it.  

 

I also can't shake the feeling that we aren't only going to lose again this week but look just as bad or worse as the steelers game. And if we lose and go to 0-2 this week the season isn't over per se, but getting back to the playoffs will be a long shot especially in a loaded conference where winning the division is probably the only real path for the Bills this year. Also it's hard to argue the culture of the team has truly changed because we shouldn't be in that position to begin with.

 

As for the fan culture, why should it change? Because we've finally made the playoffs a few years after 17 miserable years? The reality is this team has accomplished nothing other than a division title and deep playoff run during a weird covid year. You have to do it over and over and over again like the 90's Bills even if you fall short of the ultimate prize.

58 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

You think? 
 

Wasn’t their a thread on here asking the question if we are going to behave like Patriots fans now that we are destined for greatness.😅

 

Teams go from really good to bad year in and year out…. So it wouldn’t be all that shocking to see them have a rough year. 

 

I believe even Beane and McDermott commented on how the 2015 Panthers team they were part of went 6-10 following their 15-1 season and a trip to the SB they lost to Manning and the Broncos. That was a far better team than the 2020 Bills too.

 

Bottom line, never take anything for granted in this league and past success has nothing to do with the future unless your name is Tom Brady. Even Mahomes and the Chiefs were dominated in the SB after being odds on favorites to repeat and there's no guarantees they get back there again this season or ever despite having the best QB in the game not named Brady.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Greg S said:

It will probably take a Super Bowl win for the fan culture to really change. Until the Bills win it all there will always be some doubt that something bad will happen even with the team good again.

So very true. If you've seen what I've seen over the last 55 years you're always waiting for the hammer to drop. It's exhilarating to see us have a good team again but the "doom" won't end until we win a championship. 

[ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

You think? 
 

Wasn’t their a thread on here asking the question if we are going to behave like Patriots fans now that we are destined for greatness.😅

 

Teams go from really good to bad year in and year out…. So it wouldn’t be all that shocking to see them have a rough year. 

 

this season has 1989 written all over it

[Rocky Landing]

I've been bathing more often.

[TBBills]

I am, don't know why you aren't.

 

I saw week one going either way and the luck of the draw this time ended up in favor of the Steelers. They have always been a hard play for Josh and company... Miami on the other hand, only the defense has struggled at times, Josh has dominated them without worry.

Edited September 16, 2021 by TBBills

[Dr.Sack]

I’d rather Allen has a career like Aaron Rodgers without a ring, than to get to Super Bowls only to get too amped and have a melt down & we get blown out. Allen needs to chill out like most superstars have learned and play composed no matter what kind of pressure he is facing. He needs answers. He will someday become a field general. Not there yet. 

[That's No Moon]

Why should it have changed? All they did was go from consistently terrible for the better part of 20 years to above average for two seasons. If last week's game didn't make you have flashbacks of every single concern you had about the team, the offense, the quarterback, the coaching staff, the defense in big spots, I don't understand what it would take. They hit every single sour note they could have in week one and it's going to give people a lot of doubt for the next several weeks if not the rest of the season. It doesn't matter if they beat Miami by 40, that underlying doubt will still be there. Can they beat good teams? Is Allen really the guy? Can this be the team to push it over the top or are they fundamentally flawed and just toying with me?

[billsbackto81]

3 hours ago, TC in St. Louis said:

Like most Bills fans, I've been watching every game for many years; never missed a game during the drought.  Spend nearly every day during the offseason keeping track of all the moves, entered just about every season with optimism, but was never shocked when at the disappointments.  

 

But when this new regime took over, they promised to change the culture.  A few years into it, the only remnants of the old team are Jerry Hughes and our long snapper.  It's like we're an entire new organization.  

 

That being true, then our fan base should have developed a new culture.  We are entitled to expect winning football.  We should be rid of that gut feeling of pending doom.  We should accept that losses will happen, even if the team is great.  We should be feeling like the fans of the team that was 13-3 and made it to the conference championship game.  We should have faith in this team, shrug off the loss and feel like it's gonna be okay.

 

I still have that bad feeling in my gut...that we're gonna lose this week.

 

I hope we have a new fan culture, because I need it.  

This is what I wonder. I've thought about posting a dedicated thread but this topic is as good as any to address my curiosity.

 

I'm all in on what McD and Beane have assembled the last 3 seasons. The Bills have proven to be a team on the up.

 

So why is it still they don't get as I say, " the benefit of the call or no call " as frequently as other top teams? 

 

The game Sunday was very frustrating to watch as our O line was constantly called for Holding (and rightfully so) and Pitt got away with multiple obvious hold calls, especially a awful phantom call on Tre (ticky tak hand fighting) that would've really stuck it to Pitt. 

 

As good as they are now, when are they going to get the calls that other top teams get? You would've thought Big Ben was playing in Pittsburgh the way that game was going.

 

 

[Punching Bag]

Fan culture will never change.  Too many fans have invested in venom and there is no antidote for it for their souls are stained. 

Any improvement will be dismissed as luck or poor play by opponents.   

 

Bills organization has not entirely changed.  While Coach McD dumped most of the training staff and scouts lots of the old guard still work in front office; just some of the top chairs are changed. Beane at least does not need to follow advice they give just listen to it.

 

Bills organization has replaced some departments but not for the best.  

Ticketing office does not support fans like they used to.  

Marketing department now concentrates on businesses not fans.

They were lucky last year and they did not have to do a lot of effort last year.

[That's No Moon]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Considering their lackluster off-season and then watching them in the first game of the season followed by watching the Browns and Chiefs I’m basically there that the SB win ain’t happening this year….

It's a long season and more broken teams than this one have won but there needs to be an awful lot of growth in an awful lot of areas and they have the air of a team that is smelling itself a bit too much.

[The Wiz]

2 hours ago, Success said:

I mean, the Red Sox have won 4 championships since 2004 - and their fans still go instant doom when the team loses. Especially to the Yankees.

 

Some things become genetic.  It will take a LOT of wins for Bills fans to fundamentally change their outlook (imo).  We're more optimistic in general, but all it takes is a loss like this past Sunday for doubt to creep in & say, "hey, I've been here all along."

 

I like this and agree. 

 

For most of my life it's been:

"Well the Bills are probably going to lose"

 

Slowly turning to (over the past three years):

"Well I think they can win that game but not gonna be shocked if they lose"

 

Now it's:

"Well they should win this game but it might be tough"

 

The problem is, after last year, I think too many fans have skipped my "now" and expect them to be the 16-0 patriots and just roll teams. 

 

 

 

 

[ProcessTruster]

13 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Meh, it's just a game and entertainment; not like I obsess over it.

 

*checks post count*

 

I mean, I try not too anyways.

What I like now is the assurance that this team will be highly competitive in every game they play.  For so long, there were 6 or 7 games you just knew were losses.  Games now can go either way based on turnovers, injuries , whatever, but this roster is 110% competitive for the first time .  So lets go play the games and enjoy them, win or lose.   Don't get so invested in the result.   Celebrate the successes, recognize that losses will absolutely happen.  Its a long season.  

[Gugny]

14 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

You think? 
 

Wasn’t their a thread on here asking the question if we are going to behave like Patriots fans now that we are destined for greatness.😅

 

Teams go from really good to bad year in and year out…. So it wouldn’t be all that shocking to see them have a rough year. 

 

And nothing would make you happier.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

I was there on 9/12.

Everyone is still very, very drunk.

🤣

[BarleyNY]

15 hours ago, TC in St. Louis said:

Like most Bills fans, I've been watching every game for many years; never missed a game during the drought.  Spend nearly every day during the offseason keeping track of all the moves, entered just about every season with optimism, but was never shocked at the disappointments.  

 

But when this new regime took over, they promised to change the culture.  A few years into it, the only remnants of the old team are Jerry Hughes and our long snapper.  It's like we're an entire new organization.  

 

That being true, then our fan base should have developed a new culture.  We are entitled to expect winning football.  We should be rid of that gut feeling of pending doom.  We should accept that losses will happen, even if the team is great.  We should be feeling like the fans of the team that was 13-3 and made it to the conference championship game.  We should have faith in this team, shrug off the loss and feel like it's gonna be okay.

 

I still have that bad feeling in my gut...that we're gonna lose this week.

 

I hope we have a new fan culture, because I need it.  

This is a lot better - and needed - of a thread than I would have thought.  Thanks for starting it.  It’s probably cathartic to vent honestly.  I knew the Steelers were a possible loss.  I put our win probability at about 60% going in.  A game we should win at home, but definitley not a gimmie.

 

Now we travel to Miami to play a team I think we beat 2 out of 3 times there.  But my worry is that 1 time out of 3.  That’s compounded by the necessity of winning so we don’t go 0-2.  Even with wins against the WFT and the Texicans, a 2-2 record with KC and the Oiltans on the horizon is not great.

 

The schedule is not a tough one after that.  Bucs aside it’s actually pretty easy overall.  But I am looking for more than gliding into the playoffs on wins against bad to mediocre teams.  I really need to see some of what I saw last season.  I guess my fear is that not only did we not take a step forward, but maybe we took a small one back.  That would be disappointing.  Looking back to form and soundly stomping the Phins would start to easy my concerns.  (/vent)

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

It's a long season and more broken teams than this one have won but there needs to be an awful lot of growth in an awful lot of areas and they have the air of a team that is smelling itself a bit too much.

 

This is true. There are only really two flaws from Sunday that really trouble me thinking about the season as a whole and a tilt at the Superbowl... the offensive line play was horrendous. That was worse than anything we put on the field infront of Josh his rookie year.  It was a dismal display. And the punter. I haven't liked him since the start of the pre-season games. I said on the shout box I actually had a dream last Wednesday night that we lost the opener on a blocked punt. It has been a very realy concern of mine since he arrived. Those two elements are the things that moving forward worry me. I don't worry about this team being overconfident or the offensive playcalling or Josh... I am very confident all of that will resolve itself. The oline and the punter? Concerning. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

I really dont care about the "fan culture", what concerns me is the team culture, particularly Mr Allen.  He looked exhausted and defeated after that game, not his usual upbeat optimism, I don't recall him every looking that way after a loss, maybe I am wrong but it did concern me.

[Jerome007]

17 hours ago, Greg S said:

It will probably take a Super Bowl win for the fan culture to really change. Until the Bills win it all there will always be some doubt that something bad will happen even with the team good again.

To me that's not being a Bills fan, but a fan, period. Even the coaches must feel that way- and should coach that wat. Strangely, it's the players that need to quell doubts and expect the best as they are out there performing.  Of course, there's counterexamples, like when Brady had the ball with 1m28s left in the first 2021 game, the expectation was that he'd find a way to win... but you think TB fans had zero doubts, or even himself? That's normal.

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I really dont care about the "fan culture", what concerns me is the team culture, particularly Mr Allen.  He looked exhausted and defeated after that game, not his usual upbeat optimism, I don't recall him every looking that way after a loss, maybe I am wrong but it did concern me.

He was tense from the get go, before the first snap. I hope it's not the new contract pressure but just a bad game. A relaxed Josh having fun is the best version.

[SCBills]

There’s losses and then there’s losses.  
 

Some affect fanbases more than others.  
 

Dropping the first game of the year by having the same exact issues that plagued us in our losses last year isn’t the greatest way to keep the confidence of a fanbase made up of many people like me… in my 30’s, and all I know up until these past few years is pain. 
 

Onto Miami, and if we rebound, I’ll easily chalk up Week One to a team we don’t matchup well with and hope we develop counters to teams like that…. See KC Week Five. 

[ngbills]

The whole change in culture thing is a bit fluff to me. I know that it is important, but I mean that when people outside of the organization talk about it. The only ones that really know are the people inside the building. And of course we are always going to hear how it is great and all the change. You only hear the negative side when the person leaves and then the tune changes from change in culture to toxic environment. 

 

From a fan side of things I do think there is a change. Just about every fan would say they expect the Bills to be in the playoffs. Not too long ago you people were dreaming of just making it. That is a change. I think the nervousness that fans have is set in the reality that this team does not look invincible and does have some issues. As others have said, our losses can look very similar. They highlight weaknesses this team still has which can be concerning. Even the biggest cheerleader fans would admit some of this. We have not established ourselves as that team yet that is beating teams while sleepwalking. Not to mention, Josh has really only had one good year, so there is that fear that what if he regresses. Again most dont think that, but it is still a legit concern because this team wins with him not the supporting cast. 

 

Give it some time. One great year and some decent ones puts us in the group of 10 or so good teams. Cant expect us to instantly feel like the top dog in the league yet. 

[Irv]

At the end of the day all we need to do is win the division.  Haiku has helped me deal with the pre-game stress.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

20 hours ago, TC in St. Louis said:

Like most Bills fans, I've been watching every game for many years; never missed a game during the drought.  Spend nearly every day during the offseason keeping track of all the moves, entered just about every season with optimism, but was never shocked at the disappointments.  

 

But when this new regime took over, they promised to change the culture.  A few years into it, the only remnants of the old team are Jerry Hughes and our long snapper.  It's like we're an entire new organization.  

 

That being true, then our fan base should have developed a new culture.  We are entitled to expect winning football.  We should be rid of that gut feeling of pending doom.  We should accept that losses will happen, even if the team is great.  We should be feeling like the fans of the team that was 13-3 and made it to the conference championship game.  We should have faith in this team, shrug off the loss and feel like it's gonna be okay.

 

I still have that bad feeling in my gut...that we're gonna lose this week.

 

I hope we have a new fan culture, because I need it.  

 

I feel better about this one than last week.  I hate seeing pittsburgh on the schedule, but it comes with the territory if you win your division.  

 

Miami we have done pretty well against, young QB.  Could we lose?  Of course.  But I still have faith in that 4th quarter josh if we need him.  

[Bobby Hooks]

Definitely noticed more optimism overall and I’ve definitely noticed a huge number of newish fans (see: bandwagon) who’ve had no problems thumping their chests for a super bowl. 
 

But I think most fans that have been around long enough know anything can happen, and the game can turn on you in a second. 

I don’t want to speak for an entire fanbase but I think most of us feel like it won’t be time to expect anything until we can get that super bowl monkey off of our backs. Until then, it’s just hopeful optimism for me. 
 

 I will say I didn’t let last Sunday’s game get me down too much, even the super bowl team of the 90’s had a few bad blowouts each season. This one wasn’t even all that bad, ran into a tough Defense. 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Bobby Hooks

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Bobby Hooks said:

Definitely noticed more optimism overall and I’ve definitely noticed a huge number of newish fans (see: bandwagon) who’ve had no problems thumping their chests for a super bowl. 
 

But I think most fans that have been around long enough know anything can happen, and the game can turn on you in a second. 

I don’t want to speak for an entire fanbase but I think most of us feel like it won’t be time to expect anything until we can get that super bowl monkey off of our backs. Until then, it’s just hopeful optimism for me. 
 

 I will say I didn’t let last Sunday’s game get me down too much, even the super bowl team of the 90’s had a few bad blowouts each season. This one wasn’t even all that bad, ran into a tough Defense. 

 

 

Margins are thin in this game.  A couple great pitchers can drag a mediocre team far.  A hot goalie props up a mediocre hockey team.  In the NBA a star or two definitely gets you to the playoffs every year easy.  A great QB i think is what wins you more close games than you lose, but a bad defensive team usually doesn't go far.  

 

7 teams make it now with the 3 wildcard games.  Buffalo has a good QB.  Buffalo has talented playmakers.  Buffalo has a solid if unspectacular defense.  They should be in the playoffs.  The locker room is pretty tight so they know what they need to do.  Gotta get to 10 wins.  

[Nextmanup]

20 hours ago, Success said:

I mean, the Red Sox have won 4 championships since 2004 - and their fans still go instant doom when the team loses. Especially to the Yankees.

 

Some things become genetic.  It will take a LOT of wins for Bills fans to fundamentally change their outlook (imo).  We're more optimistic in general, but all it takes is a loss like this past Sunday for doubt to creep in & say, "hey, I've been here all along."

 

I'm a huge Red Sox fan and I don't go "instant doom" ever with them.

 

In fact, ever since the big win in 2004, I have been a totally transformed, relaxed fan of the team, after a lifetime of assuming doom and gloom at all opportunities.

 

One championship is all it takes to FOREVER change you as a fan.

 

Bills fans don't realize this yet...but if we ever win a Super Bowl, you'll never hold onto this team as desperately and tightly as you probably do now.

 

Suddenly it all becomes "all good" all the time, and it doesn't really matter if we lose any particular game, because we already won it all and proved we could do it.

 

 

[Niagara Bill]

One loss. So what!

Not playing meaningful pre season minutes has its downside.

I would never avoid other Bills fans after 1 stinkin loss. Do not over react.

 

Now, if they lose to the Dolphins this week....I am outta here for good!

[Don Otreply]

Not a chance in hell the fan base changes, absolutely no way, mostly because unlike the team, the fan base didn’t get rid of the non process guys, far to many flat earthers still on the fan base roster…, 

 

Go Bills!!!

[without a drought]

Fans seem to be suffering a regression in their ability to think.

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, without a drought said:

Fans seem to be suffering a regression in their ability to think.

 

 

It's the expectations.  

 

It looked almost effortless or automatic 80% of the time last year.  It wasn't always pretty

 

He was ok to very meh vs:

 

The Jets 

New England first game

Tennessee 

Kansas City

And even vs Arizona I thought he was just OK - but tremendous in the 4th q

 

 

Slow out of the gate this year zero reason to panic, but plenty of solutions, fixes, adjustments, and room to improve are there.  

 

The biggest adjustment is seeing 7 DBs.  If we see a lot of that it's inevitable there will be less passing yards.  We all knew this that's why in addition to a pass rush we knew we needed an effective running game.  

 

Both came thru today and the D looks like a top 3 defense right now.  Josh has zero reason to play hero ball with this team.  Take the safe, fight another series, slow down a bit.  He'll be fine.  

Edited September 20, 2021 by Big Blitz