Chiefs = Paper Tigers

[uninja]

Just now, snowbelt_subie said:

 

the real question we should be asking is why couldnt they stop them?  could they get no pressure?   Could they not matchup and cover their weapons?  

 

Did they address the problems or is it going to be more the same this year? 

 

I feel like its a scheme thing, we executed it better in the first contest and got pasted in the second one. The scheme is literally 'take away Kelce and Hill' and force Mahomes to earn every yard, keep everything in front of your front 7. Our biggest issues here were run defense and no pressure from our front 4. Run D was so bad that 'in front' was basically 'free first down' and we just couldn't get Mahomes on his back with our front 4.

 

Unless the entire OL is second string (like in the SB) the Chiefs effectively will get ~21-24 points just because Mahomes is gonna get his yards, you gotta keep the play in front of you and you're not going to be able to cover Hill and Kelce on every single play. You just have to keep the points around there and score more.

[BruceVilanch]

[ALLEN1QB]

I'm definitely not taking Mahomes in my fantasy league now

[YattaOkasan]

5 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

The Chiefs have dominated almost every team they have played in the last 2 years 

I agree that they are the best team in the conference (not much argument otherwise imo), but I don't know that I agree with this statement.  As mentioned in the OP they have had a lot of close games (like 17 one score games in the past 2 years, not all with Mahomes).  They have been damn near unstoppable for parts of a game but at this point there seem to be two trends.  They will be hot and cold during a game, and they are good in close games.  To me this further indicates the need to be able to run the ball against them.  That should hopefully cool them off when they are in one of their hot streaks, and also shorten the game if they start off cold.  

[RoyBatty is alive]

8 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Remember (maybe you aren’t this old), the season where Jarious Byrd could not be in the wrong place? He had the ball fall in his lap the minute he walked on the field.  It won the Bills a lot of games by way of “stopping” drives where it was just a random tip that practically got stuck in his face mask.  It happens that teams get a lucky streak, heck a lucky season.  The Falcons that year played in a WEAK division and got a lot of bounces, the next year they got slapped around like they did in the playoffs when they ran into a real team. 
 

The Chiefs have dominated almost every team they have played in the last 2 years and whooped the Bills handedly.  This is not a team that’s gotten by on beating up on garbage teams.  They have had some off days, every team does,  but to look at them and regard them as anything less than the best team in the AFC and arguably the best team in the NFL is just silly.   The Bucs did get hot at the right time and they did catch some major breaks (like virtually the entire Chiefs starting OL being out), and they did win, so if you want to say they are the team to beat until proven otherwise, fine.   There’s still no reasonable argument the Chiefs aren’t the second best team or better. 

 

I remember well i said so  at the BBMB and got blasted, the response was always well he made the play.  No, he got lucky repeatedly and a lot of the credit goes to Mark Sanchez that he would just heave the ball downfield and Byrd played outfield effectively.

2 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

I agree that they are the best team in the conference (not much argument otherwise imo), but I don't know that I agree with this statement.  As mentioned in the OP they have had a lot of close games (like 17 one score games in the past 2 years, not all with Mahomes).  They have been damn near unstoppable for parts of a game but at this point there seem to be two trends.  They will be hot and cold during a game, and they are good in close games.  To me this further indicates the need to be able to run the ball against them.  That should hopefully cool them off when they are in one of their hot streaks, and also shorten the game if they start off cold.  

Excellent observation.  

[Rico]

58 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

I get it that the Chiefs are the favorites in the AFC, and probably should be. But they also went into the Super Bowl favored to win. I said before the game that they would lose, and lose by double figures. 

 

Why? If you look at their play last season, especially in the second half of the season, they barely squeaked out eight of their wins. They lost to the Raiders and Chargers, and in other games:

 

beat the Chargers by 3 in OT

beat the Panthers by 2

beat the Raiders by 4

beat the Bucks by 3

beat the Broncos by 6

beat the Dolphins by 6

beat the Saints by 3

beat the Falcons by 3

 

A good team will win many close games, but when a team wins that many games by less than a touchdown you can expect a regression to the mean. Despite  Mahomes and Kelce and Hill, and the fact they beat the Bills twice last year, I don't see any reason the Bills should be quaking in their boots about playing them. 

I predict the Chiefs will have a fall off this season and would not be at all surprised if they fail to make the playoffs. They lived on the edge last season and when you do that, you are in danger of falling off. 

 

Nice post, I do think they’ll make the playoffs though. Never, ever any reason to be scared of an Andy Reid team in the playoffs. If you let them beat you, you’ve only got yourself to blame (sorry McD).

[buffaloboyinATL]

Of course, the paper is that play sheet that Andy Reid is holding in his hands.  And because of his brilliance as a play caller, they are also a tiger on the field.

[Boxcar]

45 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

If they are so invincible, how the hell did eight teams--including the Panthers and Falcons--come within a touchdown of beating them? Not to mention the two teams that did beat them, by 12 and 17 points in the regular season. And then they lost the Super Bowl by 22 points.  

The Falcons missed a game tying FG at the end of the game, too, where Koo is almost automatic.

[snowbelt_subie]

18 minutes ago, uninja said:

 

I feel like its a scheme thing, we executed it better in the first contest and got pasted in the second one. The scheme is literally 'take away Kelce and Hill' and force Mahomes to earn every yard, keep everything in front of your front 7. Our biggest issues here were run defense and no pressure from our front 4. Run D was so bad that 'in front' was basically 'free first down' and we just couldn't get Mahomes on his back with our front 4.

 

Unless the entire OL is second string (like in the SB) the Chiefs effectively will get ~21-24 points just because Mahomes is gonna get his yards, you gotta keep the play in front of you and you're not going to be able to cover Hill and Kelce on every single play. You just have to keep the points around there and score more.

 

idk if playing zone against mahomes will work i feel like they will eat that up .  needs to be more man + zone/robbers with the free players.   the big thing is getting pressure with 4 consistently. 

 

[Freddie's Dead]

[billsbackto81]

How is a team that's gone to 2 consecutive SB's and winning 1 considered a "paper tiger"?

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

I'll wait for the season to start to see if KC has got better, worse or stayed the same.

 

IMO they are not invincible.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I like the effort! 
 

But good teams win close games. 

[Ya Digg?]

So I certainly appreciate the title of the thread (the whole idea is to get a response from people and that certainly worked) but the premise is off. They won the close games and in the games I watched they never seemed to not be in control and you were always nervous that they were 1 play away from the game being a blowout. They are beatable for sure, but they are still the team to beat in the AFC 

[LeGOATski]

Sorry everyone. I take credit for threads like this after making "Chiefs miss the playoffs" one of my predictions in the bold prediction thread.

[Lofton80]

The Chiefs had 8 plays of 20 yards or more in the AFC championship game. Until the Bills limit that number, they will not beat the Chiefs. Also, kicking field goals in the red zone against a high scoring team limits your chances. Hopefully, a better pass rush and running game help the cause. 

[NoSaint]

55 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Remember (maybe you aren’t this old), the season where Jarious Byrd could not be in the wrong place? He had the ball fall in his lap the minute he walked on the field.  It won the Bills a lot of games by way of “stopping” drives where it was just a random tip that practically got stuck in his face mask.  It happens that teams get a lucky streak, heck a lucky season.  The Falcons that year played in a WEAK division and got a lot of bounces, the next year they got slapped around like they did in the playoffs when they ran into a real team. 
 

The Chiefs have dominated almost every team they have played in the last 2 years and whooped the Bills handedly.  This is not a team that’s gotten by on beating up on garbage teams.  They have had some off days, every team does,  but to look at them and regard them as anything less than the best team in the AFC and arguably the best team in the NFL is just silly.   The Bucs did get hot at the right time and they did catch some major breaks (like virtually the entire Chiefs starting OL being out), and they did win, so if you want to say they are the team to beat until proven otherwise, fine.   There’s still no reasonable argument the Chiefs aren’t the second best team or better. 

yup- heck, didn’t Atlanta have a game that year where they were driving from behind with like two mins left, turn the ball over and then the defender fumbled back to them and they ended up scoring to win right behind it? Just stupid good luck all season but I don’t fully recall the details game by game. 
 

sometimes you are just blessed with a lucky win. Or several. Likewise cursed with unlucky losses. 
 

But those outcomes tend to regress towards an average. I really never picked that up with the chiefs last year though. 

[FilthyBeast]

I disagree with the premise of this thread for the simple obvious fact that we were 0-2 against them last year, and never really competed with them particularly in the AFC Championship that was essentially over at halftime despite getting off to a 9-0 lead early.

 

With that said, it will be interesting to see what they look like this year especially Mahomes after finally having a truly terrible game. I think defensively they are still very average at best (unless they are facing us in which they looked like the #1 defense twice) and they aren't very deep on offense once you get past the likes of Kelce and Cheetah.  Also will they start blowing out teams again or play down to the level of competition like most of last season?

 

But until the Bills prove they can not only hang with the Chiefs for 4 quarters and actually beat them they are the odds on favorites in the AFC.

[Rico]

27 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

How is a team that's gone to 2 consecutive SB's and winning 1 considered a "paper tiger"?

 

 

They beat the Texans, Titans, and a Kyle Shanahan team to win their Super Bowl. 
 

They were exposed as frauds in the second Super Bowl.

[Big Turk]

How do you classify a team that won the SB 2 years ago, made it to the SB last year, while kicking our ass twice in the process, and who has the best QB in the NFL(until proven otherwise) as a paper tiger?

 

That just doesn't compute.  A paper tiger is a team that looks good on paper but doesn't do anything in the big games when it counts.  Clearly that isn't them.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Big Turk

[Solomon Grundy]

31 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I like the effort! 
 

But good teams win close games. 

Yeah, but they had no business winning that Falcons game. All the DB had to do is catch the ball.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Just now, Solomon Grundy said:

Yeah, but they had no business winning that Falcons game. All the DB had to do is catch the ball.

True, but good teams get a little more lucky too, it seems. How much dumb luck has befallen the Patriots over the years? It’s astounding. 
 

Also, we got some pretty good breaks ourselves last year, including a questionable PI call at the end of the Rams game to win it. 
 

But even separating out fluke plays, good teams do know how to grind it out and win close games or games when they aren’t playing their best. 

[FilthyBeast]

19 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

How do you classify a team that won the SB 2 years ago, made it to the SB last year, while kicking our ass twice in the process, and who has the best QB in the NFL(until proven otherwise) as a paper tiger?

 

That just doesn't compute.  A paper tiger is a team that looks good on paper but doesn't do anything in the big games when it counts.  Clearly that isn't them.

 

Pretty much, I guarantee there's not a Chiefs player, coach, fan, etc that are worried about the Bills until we do something to prove otherwise.

[msw2112]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

Remember (maybe you aren’t this old), the season where Jarious Byrd could not be in the wrong place? He had the ball fall in his lap the minute he walked on the field.  It won the Bills a lot of games by way of “stopping” drives where it was just a random tip that practically got stuck in his face mask.  It happens that teams get a lucky streak, heck a lucky season.  The Falcons that year played in a WEAK division and got a lot of bounces, the next year they got slapped around like they did in the playoffs when they ran into a real team. 
 

The Chiefs have dominated almost every team they have played in the last 2 years and whooped the Bills handedly.  This is not a team that’s gotten by on beating up on garbage teams.  They have had some off days, every team does,  but to look at them and regard them as anything less than the best team in the AFC and arguably the best team in the NFL is just silly.   The Bucs did get hot at the right time and they did catch some major breaks (like virtually the entire Chiefs starting OL being out), and they did win, so if you want to say they are the team to beat until proven otherwise, fine.   There’s still no reasonable argument the Chiefs aren’t the second best team or better. 

 

This comment made me think of the year that Dick Jauron led the Chicago Bears to the playoffs and was the NFL coach of the year.  They got every tip, bounce and call that year.  They were medicore to bad before that season and after it.  I will also always remember an article from many years back when the Bills were looking for a new coach.  The headline read:  "Bills to Interview Dick Jauron for Head Coaching Position.....Why?"

 

But getting back to the point of this thead, Jauron's one year of success with the Bears is a paper tiger type of thing.  This Chiefs team is not that.  They have been very good to excellent for several years (they were a multi-year playoff team BEFORE Mahomes) and, if you take the last 2 seasons collectively, they were the NFL's best team (2 Super Bowl appearances, one victory).  They soundly beat the Bills twice in two different styles of games, including the AFC Championship where they spotted the Bills 9 and still won handily.

 

I do, however, believe that if the Bills improve their defense and can run a little bit, they certainly can compete with, and potentially beat, the Chiefs this year.  If those things don't happen, the Bills will remain #2 or #3 in the AFC.

[Mark Vader]

2 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

Unless we get a ring they’re better than us. It’s that simple. You can’t even have a debate. They’ve beat us down head to head. 
Doesn’t matter who they lose to. Doesn’t matter Tampa  that the Refs stomped them. 

Fixed

[ngbills]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

All that matters. A win is a win.

Bills - A win is a win; Close loss should have been a win.

Other Teams - A loss is a loss; Close win should have been a loss.

[colin]

3 hours ago, teef said:

 

 

you often contribute chortle worthy levity to our threads, but this was just the right mix of subtle and ham handed to really kick up a Tuesday take thread.

 

Thank you for your service.

[Matt_In_NH]

They won a lot of close games....that does not come close to making them paper tigers....that is a weird label to put on a team that has been to and won one of the last two SB's.  And three years ago were in OT in the AFC championship game.  Are they beatable, sure they are beatable.

Edited August 17, 2021 by mattynh

[Dr. K]

4 minutes ago, mattynh said:

They won a lot of close games....that does not come close to making them paper tigers....that is a weird label to put on a team that has been to and won one of the last two SB's.  And three years ago were in OT in the AFC championship game.  Are they beatable, sure they are beatable.

You're right--I should not have used the term "paper tigers." Maybe it should have been "Chiefs = Vulnerable" 

 

But my point is that the Chiefs are not the invincible machine that so many people here and in the press say they are. They are vulnerable, and they showed it repeatedly in the run-up to the Super Bowl, where the best game they played from the beginning of November to the Super Bowl was the one they played against the Bills, aided by refs who put away their whistles on holding by the Chiefs secondary. 

 

The Chiefs have more than earned their respect from the rest of the league. But they aren't the 1942 Bears. 

[Teddy KGB]

No one can stop Tyreke, Kelce, or Mahomes.    
 

Delete this.  

[Matt_In_NH]

6 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

You're right--I should not have used the term "paper tigers." Maybe it should have been "Chiefs = Vulnerable" 

 

But my point is that the Chiefs are not the invincible machine that so many people here and in the press say they are. They are vulnerable, and they showed it repeatedly in the run-up to the Super Bowl, where the best game they played from the beginning of November to the Super Bowl was the one they played against the Bills, aided by refs who put away their whistles on holding by the Chiefs secondary. 

 

The Chiefs have more than earned their respect from the rest of the league. But they aren't the 1942 Bears. 

you went 2 score and 3 years earlier than I would have for a Bear analogy.

[Dr. K]

2 minutes ago, mattynh said:

you went 2 score and 3 years earlier than I would have for a Bear analogy.

Only undefeated NFL season ever.

 

I'm very old. 😀

[Rico]

10 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

No one can stop Tyreke, Kelce, or Mahomes.    
 

Delete this.  

[boco357]

Spagnuolo has owned this offense and Daboll the past two games.  

[eball]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

This is worse than the thread that ranked edge rushers after one preseason game. 

 

Or the one calling out Kumerow for not showing up.

[LabattBlue]

The OP is just trying to lure 0.0 volts into a prolonged and heated argument. 😂

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

One of the 10 Super Bowls he will play in 

 

 

Nice 

[Rico]

6 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

One of the 10 Super Bowls he will play in 

 

 

Nice 

with Andy Reid as his coach.  

[Simon]

4 hours ago, First Round Bust said:

in both games last season, the bills played the chiefs competetively for the first half, but were outscored and really outclassed in the second half of each

 

We may have hung around on the scoreboard for a while, but let's not kid ourselves.

The Chiefs physically kicked the living ***** out of the Bills all over the field right from the get-go.

And it wasn't even close.

[Jauronimo]

Bills:Chiefs as Paper Mice:Paper Tigers