Mike Tomlin over or underrated

[Big Blitz]

Has he established himself as one of the best coaches in the league?  Thoughts?  

 

I know from 2013-2018 they underachieved or couldn't get past New England.  And Pittsburgh fans wanted him gone.  Remember the game he tried to trip up a guy on a kick return? 

 

The AB meltdown and Bell drama could have broke a lot of teams, but they were right to cut Bell loose and trade AB.  How many teams overcome that?  You can definitely say it's Ben and I agree he's one of the best ever.  

 

I don't know it's odd.  There are times to me he looks like one of the best then there are weeks he looks like one of the worst.  They now expect to lose to a garbage team at least once a year in Pittsburgh.  

 

Got a kick out of this the other day...

 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Big Blitz

[Warcodered]

I mean technically you can get another teams #1 pick like the Dolphins and the Texans.

[17islongenough]

Every Steelers fan I know hates him

[MJS]

I think he's a good coach. The Steelers have been consistently good for a long time.

 

I don't think he is a great coach, though.

 

I've learned this week that Steelers fans complain about everything. They are dumping on their team this week like they are a 1 win team. Makes sense they would dump on their coach too.

Edited December 11, 2020 by MJS

[IgotBILLStopay]

First few years I thought he was overrated .. but last season may have been his absolute best coaching effort. This season, notwithstanding the 11-1 record, he has been ok. not elite not crappy - but decent

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, 17islongenough said:

Every Steelers fan I know hates him

Seems like they inexplicably hate their team. It's a little strange to me.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

I think he's a good coach. The Steelers have been consistently good for a long time.

 

I don't think he is a great coach, though.

 

I've learned this week that Steelers fans complain about everything. They are dumping in their team this week like they are a 1 win team. Makes sense they would dump on their coach too.

Right. Definitely over board reacting by there fan base. 

[BuffaloRebound]

Spoiled fan base.  

[machine gun kelly]

In 14 years, he’s never had a losing record.  He’s had a few 8-8’s, but outside of Belichick, I think has the most winning record in present day coaching.

[Captain Hindsight]

If I was an owner and Tomlin was available I'd hire him as soon as I possibly could.

 

He has never had a losing season as a HC! Last season he went 8-8 with Rudolph and Duck as his QBs. Tomlin is a fantastic coach and has had sustained success. He has a 657 win pct over 13+ seasons. If McBeane is that good, he will end up in Canton

 

Steelers fans are spoiled

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

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[Miyagi-Do Karate]

29 minutes ago, 17islongenough said:

Every Steelers fan I know hates him

most of my friends are Steelers fans and they are mixed on him. Some of it has to do with how beloved Cowher was, and how Tomlin is always compared to him.

 

its kind of funny— because, statistically, Tomlin is not only a great coach, he is like in the top-5 (arguably, top-3) of NFL coaches of all time. 
 

how can people argue with 14 consecutive non-losing seasons to start his career (no one has ever done that)? He smashed all the “youngest to do X” records, beating Don Shula’s records. He has numerous playoff appearances, AFC Championship games, SB appearances, and the 1 ring— all while playing in the same conference with the Pats at their peak. He has handled some of the toughest personalities in the NFL very seamlessly (Ben R, James Harrison, Santonio, AB, Mendenhall, Bell, etc.). 

[Bferra13]

15 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

most of my friends are Steelers fans and they are mixed on him. Some of it has to do with how beloved Cowher was, and how Tomlin is always compared to him.

 

its kind of funny— because, statistically, Tomlin is not only a great coach, he is like in the top-5 (arguably, top-3) of NFL coaches of all time. 
 

how can people argue with 14 consecutive non-losing seasons to start his career (no one has ever done that)? He smashed all the “youngest to do X” records, beating Don Shula’s records. He has numerous playoff appearances, AFC Championship games, SB appearances, and the 1 ring— all while playing in the same conference with the Pats at their peak. He has handled some of the toughest personalities in the NFL very seamlessly (Ben R, James Harrison, Santonio, AB, Mendenhall, Bell, etc.). 

 

I also live in piglet country and the only counter I can offer is that he inherited a super bowl team and hof qb. He's been pretty dam solid tho as a head coach. Their fans are the pits though. Just the worst 

[Billznut]

I’ve never liked him personally as an opposing teams coach. Comes off as arrogant frequently. But you can’t deny he is a great coach. Never a losing season, although he’s been blessed with a hall of fame qb for his entire tenure in Pittsburgh. Let see how great he is once Big Ben retires. But for now, yeah you can’t deny he’s been a great coach. 

[Buffalo Junction]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

most of my friends are Steelers fans and they are mixed on him. Some of it has to do with how beloved Cowher was, and how Tomlin is always compared to him.

 

its kind of funny— because, statistically, Tomlin is not only a great coach, he is like in the top-5 (arguably, top-3) of NFL coaches of all time. 
 

how can people argue with 14 consecutive non-losing seasons to start his career (no one has ever done that)? He smashed all the “youngest to do X” records, beating Don Shula’s records. He has numerous playoff appearances, AFC Championship games, SB appearances, and the 1 ring— all while playing in the same conference with the Pats at their peak. He has handled some of the toughest personalities in the NFL very seamlessly (Ben R, James Harrison, Santonio, AB, Mendenhall, Bell, etc.). 

Only thing I can come up with is that he hasn’t won a Super Bowl without Dick LeBeau and a defensive HOF player. 🤷‍♂️. Flipside is perpetually contending with Peyton Manning or Darth Hoodie & Brady. Roethlisberger has had a HOF career, but his prime was spent contending with arguably the two best AFC QBs of all time.... Hard to beat that as Tomlin had to out coach great coaches and superior QBs damn near every season he’s been in Yinzland. 

[BillsfaninSB]

I would hire him.  His defenses seem to be always good and they do well in the draft.  The true litmus test is when Ben retires. 

[Da webster guy]

Tomlin makes weird game calls, says he "plays with his gut" despite sometimes being so far off from legit analytics I feel like he should be fired. He has cost them games with off the wall calls.

 

Then something like last year happens and Pitt should have lost most every game but he does an incredible job putting together a 7 out of 8 game win streak with almost no offensive firepower including no Ben, no AB and Connor hurt every week it seemed.

 

I dunno.  I think you might outcoach the guy with X's and O's but he sure is a helluva team leader.  Like McD actually.

[ganesh]

However, he had the benefit of a Franchise QB handed to him on day one (one that had just won a super bowl) and has had him for his entire career.   As we see with Josh,  a Franchise QB makes all the difference.  I would still hire him though...He brings tenacity to the team. His approach has been very similar to McDermott

[North Buffalo]

I can understand the mixed feeling... great defense... suspect on offense.. but he makes do and is successful if not always great.  Pitt has a lot of injuries on offense this year and their wide receivers can't catch a cold... still they have managed to win.  Claypool is a great example of this inconsistency... all the physical tools but I question his heart.

[nucci]

6 hours ago, MJS said:

I think he's a good coach. The Steelers have been consistently good for a long time.

 

I don't think he is a great coach, though.

 

I've learned this week that Steelers fans complain about everything. They are dumping on their team this week like they are a 1 win team. Makes sense they would dump on their coach too.

like most fans...including here

[Slack_in_MA]

I think he's properly-rated.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

First few years I thought he was overrated .. but last season may have been his absolute best coaching effort. This season, notwithstanding the 11-1 record, he has been ok. not elite not crappy - but decent

 

 

This, with the exception of your last sentence. I think getting this team to 11-1 has been doing a terrific job. They're not as good as that record would make them seem. He's changed the way Roethlisberger operates, and absolutely maximized him as he gets older.

 

Agreed that early in his career he seemed overrated. But he handled guys who have later proved unhandleable. He integrated Antonio Brown into a team. Got them through last year as a respectable team.

 

He's really really good, in a non-flashy way.

[GunnerBill]

I think he is one of the best leaders in the NFL and I am on record as saying I think that is the single biggest quality you want in a Head Coach. He is also onto basically his third team in Pit, he has taken them to two Superbowls and won one. That said for much of the last decade they couldn't get past New England despite equal if not great talent in many of those years. However, last year was a hell of a coaching job and I even think this year getting this team to 11-0 (I know their schedule was not the toughest) is a significant achievement. He hasn't had a losing season in 14 years in the job. That is pretty great.

 

My take is he is just below the very top rung of NFL coaches - Belichick, Harbaugh, Reid and Payton. He sits in that next bucket somewhere with Pete Carroll as a great leader, with the numbers to back it up.... but who you just feel when it gets down to the Xs and Os can be outdone.

[Rochesterfan]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think he is one of the best leaders in the NFL and I am on record as saying I think that is the single biggest quality you want in a Head Coach. He is also onto basically his third team in Pit, he has taken them to two Superbowls and won one. That said for much of the last decade they couldn't get past New England despite equal if not great talent in many of those years. However, last year was a hell of a coaching job and I even think this year getting this team to 11-0 (I know their schedule was not the toughest) is a significant achievement. He hasn't had a losing season in 14 years in the job. That is pretty great.

 

My take is he is just below the very top rung of NFL coaches - Belichick, Harbaugh, Reid and Payton. He sits in that next bucket somewhere with Pete Carroll as a great leader, with the numbers to back it up.... but who you just feel when it gets down to the Xs and Os can be outdone.

 

Perfectly well put.

 

I think he is a phenomenal leader and motivator of players.  He gets just about the most you can out of guys and somehow kept some very strong negative personalities in line for years.  Year in and year out he finds ways to win - even when his team is less talented or missing key guys.

 

The flip side is I think his coordinators and his game day X’s and O’s are not as good as many other coaches - his teams tend to out physical and out emotion the opponent and in games against great coaches (see NE) that was not always enough.  He also struggled against Baltimore another team that tends to be ultra physical and emotional, but Harbaugh brings something to the X&O party.

 

When you get down to it - he trusts his players and asks a lot of them and more often they deliver - therefore in whatever way you want to measure he is a good/great coach - I do not think he is elite (few are), but if let go - he should be snapped up immediately by a team looking to take the next step.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Rochesterfan said:

 

Perfectly well put.

 

I think he is a phenomenal leader and motivator of players.  He gets just about the most you can out of guys and somehow kept some very strong negative personalities in line for years.  Year in and year out he finds ways to win - even when his team is less talented or missing key guys.

 

The flip side is I think his coordinators and his game day X’s and O’s are not as good as many other coaches - his teams tend to out physical and out emotion the opponent and in games against great coaches (see NE) that was not always enough.  He also struggled against Baltimore another team that tends to be ultra physical and emotional, but Harbaugh brings something to the X&O party.

 

When you get down to it - he trusts his players and asks a lot of them and more often they deliver - therefore in whatever way you want to measure he is a good/great coach - I do not think he is elite (few are), but if let go - he should be snapped up immediately by a team looking to take the next step.

 

Oh if Mike Tomlin was fired it would be an Andy Reid situation. He would be hired by another team before he had chance to pack up his office.

[Billy Claude]

52 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think he is one of the best leaders in the NFL and I am on record as saying I think that is the single biggest quality you want in a Head Coach. He is also onto basically his third team in Pit, he has taken them to two Superbowls and won one. That said for much of the last decade they couldn't get past New England despite equal if not great talent in many of those years. However, last year was a hell of a coaching job and I even think this year getting this team to 11-0 (I know their schedule was not the toughest) is a significant achievement. He hasn't had a losing season in 14 years in the job. That is pretty great.

 

My take is he is just below the very top rung of NFL coaches - Belichick, Harbaugh, Reid and Payton. He sits in that next bucket somewhere with Pete Carroll as a great leader, with the numbers to back it up.... but who you just feel when it gets down to the Xs and Os can be outdone.

 

 

Wasn't this what they said about Andy Reid before he won the last Super Bowl -- i.e.., that he was a very good coach but would always get out-coached in the big games?

 

[wjag]

Two things about Pittsburgh.  They always find great defensive players. And somehow they find good WRs too.  

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

he's a darn good coach. has kept the steelers respectable during his tenure. I don't think he is either over or under rated but respected for what he has done.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

 

Wasn't this what they said about Andy Reid before he won the last Super Bowl -- i.e.., that he was a very good coach but would always get out-coached in the big games?

 

 

And Tomlin already has a Superbowl. I think the questions were different though. I think everyone knew Andy Reid could do the Xs and Os the question were things around game management. While there is a bit of that with Tomlin I think the bigger question is can he devise a specific gameplan for a specific opponent. I always think his teams fall more in the "we are gonna line up and do what we do and try and do it better than you do what you do" category.

[Scott7975]

I think he is a good coach. The team always plays hard. They went 8-8 with a guy named Duck. Yes I know he didn't play them all. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Scott7975

[Gugny]

I've always been a Tomlin fan and I consider him a great coach without hesitation.  

[CLTbills]

7 hours ago, MJS said:

Seems like they inexplicably hate their team. It's a little strange to me.

 

First time on Two Bills Drive?

[Billy Claude]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And Tomlin already has a Superbowl. I think the questions were different though. I think everyone knew Andy Reid could do the Xs and Os the question were things around game management. While there is a bit of that with Tomlin I think the bigger question is can he devise a specific gameplan for a specific opponent. I always think his teams fall more in the "we are gonna line up and do what we do and try and do it better than you do what you do" category.

 

Slightly unfair -- since Tomlin came from the defense side he not as involved in the Xs and Os that are more obvious to fans.

 

Of course his defense gave up 45 and 36 points in the last two playoff losses so that doesn't help.

[Mr. WEO]

I'll take the over.  

 

He was handed a stacked SB team, HOF QB, etc.

 

I don't see why a young team with much less talent would hire him.  Is he a great strategist?  A great game planner?  Developer of talent?

 

 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Is he a great strategist? 

No

A great game planner? 

No

Developer of talent?

Yes, absolutely.

 

Agree on the strategy and gameplanning and that is what goes against him, but absolutely he is a developer of talent. Steelers are constantly drafting and developing. He has done a great job of that hence even after the team he inherited crumbled he has rebuilt two other generations of the Steelers. I'd say leadership is his #1 quality. Developing talent I'd put #2.

 

He is not the best Xs and Os guy. There is no dispute about that and it keeps him out of that top rank. But the Saints have had losing seasons with Brees. Green Bay have had losing seasons with Rodgers. The Steelers have never had one with Ben and didn't even have one without Ben. An average coach doesn't achieve that. Tomlin is a good football coach. He isn't a great one but he is a good one.

[Don Otreply]

9 hours ago, 17islongenough said:

Every Steelers fan I know hates him

Fans are stupid a lot of the time, as we all know.... who said this; if you take the fan’s advice you will soon be sitting with them.... 

[oldmanfan]

Underrated.  Great leader, handles team dynamics well.  And a good winning record.

[Mr. WEO]

53 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree on the strategy and gameplanning and that is what goes against him, but absolutely he is a developer of talent. Steelers are constantly drafting and developing. He has done a great job of that hence even after the team he inherited crumbled he has rebuilt two other generations of the Steelers. I'd say leadership is his #1 quality. Developing talent I'd put #2.

 

He is not the best Xs and Os guy. There is no dispute about that and it keeps him out of that top rank. But the Saints have had losing seasons with Brees. Green Bay have had losing seasons with Rodgers. The Steelers have never had one with Ben and didn't even have one without Ben. An average coach doesn't achieve that. Tomlin is a good football coach. He isn't a great one but he is a good one.

 

He had back to back 8-8 seasons (after back to back 12 wins) --one with a #1 Defense, as well as Big Ben (he was 7-6), AB, Emmanuel Sanders and Mike Wallace.

 

True, "no losing seasons", but had they gone 7-9 in any of those seasons, I don't think it changes the conversation much. 

 

Good coach yes--more of a staff manager and motivator with a solid FO and scouting setting up the roster.  In game, his major contribution seems to be glaring at opponents and refs.  That's why I went with "over".

[Freddie's Dead]

Mike Tomlin will always be my hero because of this (he called the Cheats out loud and clear on their cheating):

 

 

[dave mcbride]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think he is one of the best leaders in the NFL and I am on record as saying I think that is the single biggest quality you want in a Head Coach. He is also onto basically his third team in Pit, he has taken them to two Superbowls and won one. That said for much of the last decade they couldn't get past New England despite equal if not great talent in many of those years. However, last year was a hell of a coaching job and I even think this year getting this team to 11-0 (I know their schedule was not the toughest) is a significant achievement. He hasn't had a losing season in 14 years in the job. That is pretty great.

 

My take is he is just below the very top rung of NFL coaches - Belichick, Harbaugh, Reid and Payton. He sits in that next bucket somewhere with Pete Carroll as a great leader, with the numbers to back it up.... but who you just feel when it gets down to the Xs and Os can be outdone.

Agree 100 percent with this. This is what I’ve always said about him. Managing NFL personalities is the most underrated part of the job, and it ain’t easy—a lot of players are borderline psychos (the sport draws that type). He is great at it.

Edited December 11, 2020 by dave mcbride