Was Allen concussed? Speculation with some circumstantial evidence.

[Captain Caveman]

I have absolutely noticed in games before where when Josh takes a hit to the head (I remember seeing something similar in the Houston playoff game) that sometimes his play gets drastically worse.  

 

It's certainly possible.

[Dr.Sack]

I think he tripped on this play and slipped on the wet turf.

 

could have been multiple. Wasn’t he also body slammed after one run attempt in Q1?

[DapperCam]

17 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

It's possible, but unlikely. 

 

The problem is that Allen has played exactly like this in multiple games over multiple years.

 

His only diagnosed concussion was 2019 when he got knocked out of the game vs Patriots and was available the next week. 

 

If his erratic play was from an un-diagnosed concussion it seems likely that he's had multiple un-diagnosed concussions. While I think that's a possibility I think it's a pretty slim chance. 

You think there is a slim chance that a football player has played through multiple undiagnosed concussions in their career? Lol! There is an entire movie with Will Smith about this.

[Freddie's Dead]

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I believe you’re thinking of this play: 

 

 

 

 

That might be it, can't see the number of the tackler.

[Low Positive]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

I think he must have been concussed when he attempted a butt fumble in the 4th quarter 

My coworker (not a bills fan) said that Josh got hit in the head right before he dropped the ball. 

[UKBillFan]

3 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

My coworker (not a bills fan) said that Josh got hit in the head right before he dropped the ball. 

 

I think someone on here pointed out after the game that Josh hit his head/was hit on the head three times during the game. I think the rest of us (me included) were so wrapped up in the sporting disaster which had just occured that we didn't really take it on board or consider it. I've lost track but I think the video in the OP is of the second hit.

 

Maybe he was fine. And, as said before, Josh has a record of bad plays when he hasn't been hit on the head. But I do wish they had treated him in the same way Jimmy G was against the Broncos - withdraw him and have him assessed before returning if cleared.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

6 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

You think there is a slim chance that a football player has played through multiple undiagnosed concussions in their career? Lol! There is an entire movie with Will Smith about this.

 

And concussion protocols have gotten a lot better since then. Obviously they aren't perfect (see: Tua) but I think it's a lot more difficult for guys to play through concussions in the current NFL. 

[Bob Jones]

When I saw this live, I thought for sure that the Bills were going to pick up 15 yards for a PF by that dirty lineman.

[Mango]

28 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I believe you’re thinking of this play: 

 

 

 

I was at the game and actually thought the booth was going to pull him into the tent to check. I was surprised this wasn’t the incident cited in this post. 
 

It felt like he hit hard from sitting in the lower bowl. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Mango

[JerseyBills]

interesting

 

I doubt it since he's not on injury report but possibility 

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

I was at the game and actually thought the booth was going to pull him into the tent to check. I was surprised this wasn’t the incident cited in this post. 

 

The decline happened right after the hit mentioning in the first post. That’s the only reason I used it.

[NewEra]

Interesting.  Thanks for putting this together.  The stats pre and post hit are telling. 
 

Definitely looks like a possibility.  Massive dude smashing you in the back of your head while you’re on the ground. 
 

 

[finn]

35 minutes ago, Captain Caveman said:

I have absolutely noticed in games before where when Josh takes a hit to the head (I remember seeing something similar in the Houston playoff game) that sometimes his play gets drastically worse.  

 

It's certainly possible.

Didn't the same thing happen in the Green Bay game last year? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

not for nothing but i cant believe thats not a flag

 

Or bills should send to league for review and warning or fine. He was very down, completely unnecessary 

[Einstein]

7 minutes ago, finn said:

Didn't the same thing happen in the Green Bay game last year? 

 

It was speculated.

I believe there is a good chance that Allen has several undocumented concussions.

 

 

 

 

[BillsUberAlles]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

With 4:55 remaining in the 3rd quarter, Josh Allen stumbled forward and while on the ground, was hit in the back of the head by a very large and very heavy Quinnen Williams. The video of the hit is in the tweet below.

 

Circumstantial evidence:

 

1) In the video, you can see Quinnen Williams land on Allens head area. Once Quinnen rolls away, Allen raises his head for a moment, and then lowers his head back down to the turf (perhaps trying to compose himself) before getting back up. 

2) The very next play, Allen threw an interception into double coverage.

 

3) Prior to this hit, Allen was 21 of 25, 1 TD, 1 INT (84% passing)

 

4) After this hit, Allen went 8 of 16, 0 TD, 2 INT, 1 Lost Fumble (50% passing)

 

Or it could also simply be coincidence. That is also possible.

 

The video:

 

 

 

Mods/@Simon - If this post is better suited within another thread, please feel free to merge. I just thought it was an interesting topic. 

 

Green Bayesque??

[JohnNord]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

With 4:55 remaining in the 3rd quarter, Josh Allen stumbled forward and while on the ground, was hit in the back of the head by a very large and very heavy Quinnen Williams. The video of the hit is in the tweet below.

 

Circumstantial evidence:

 

1) In the video, you can see Quinnen Williams land on Allens head area. Once Quinnen rolls away, Allen raises his head for a moment, and then lowers his head back down to the turf (perhaps trying to compose himself) before getting back up. 

2) The very next play, Allen threw an interception into double coverage.

 

3) Prior to this hit, Allen was 21 of 25, 1 TD, 1 INT (84% passing)

 

4) After this hit, Allen went 8 of 16, 0 TD, 2 INT, 1 Lost Fumble (50% passing)

 

Or it could also simply be coincidence. That is also possible.

 

The video:

 

 

 

Mods/@Simon - If this post is better suited within another thread, please feel free to merge. I just thought it was an interesting topic. 

This is pretty much BS.  After what happened with Tua the league, team medical staff and players are likely on high alert for symptoms.  The fact that no one spotted any symptoms on the field, on the sidelines, or in the building on the days following the game is significant.  

[Success]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

not for nothing but i cant believe thats not a flag

 

 

It kind of evened out. There was a big hit on Wilson later in the game that I thought should have been called.

 

[BillsFan692]

17 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

This is pretty much BS.  After what happened with Tua the league, team medical staff and players are likely on high alert for symptoms.  The fact that no one spotted any symptoms on the field, on the sidelines, or in the building on the days following the game is significant.  

Except teams and players been hiding it for years. Players hide it and teams are willfully ignorant 

I do believe josh was getting hit and sacked a lot. Whipped to the ground, hits to back of head etc. Jets defense is tough and the refs were fine with it.

 

Then again, some of those hits josh is a running back so he is bringing them on himself...

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Interesting.  Thanks for putting this together.  The stats pre and post hit are telling. 
 

Definitely looks like a possibility.  Massive dude smashing you in the back of your head while you’re on the ground. 
 

 

 

Watch the Cover 1 film breakdown

 

 

 

Jets baited hero ball Josh, Josh bailed on the OL - Morse had a rough night, easy throws were there - he didn't take them, some arm arrogance on the undercut Whitehead INT (josh hit the same play in Detroit last year though, but he had Diggs and the TE open for the first. He just pressed and pressed some more and made some bad decisions

[UKBillFan]

5 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

And concussion protocols have gotten a lot better since then. Obviously they aren't perfect (see: Tua) but I think it's a lot more difficult for guys to play through concussions in the current NFL. 

 

Though they didn't call Josh into the blue tent so how do they know if he was concussed or not? Guess either they didn't see it or thought the hit wasn't hard enough to warrant a review.

[Richard Noggin]

What's worse, truly: that Allen has suffered multiple undiagnosed concussions in 2022 and 2023 already, a la Tua in 2022, or that he has exhibited a regression of inexplicably poor decision-making over that same span? From 2nd half vs GB in '22 through NYJ in '23 there is a troubling uptick in WTF decisions by #17.

 

Prior to that he had been playing at an all-time elite level over a 6-8 game span. 

 

Would be REALLY bad if the Bills were putting on those Mike McDaniel shades and missing some obvious head injury evidence. Super yuck. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

9 hours ago, PBF81 said:

There was another play after which he looked at the camera and it appeared that he was a little dazed.  I have no idea where it was, I'm guessing in the 1st half, but I thought then that he may have had a mild concussion.  

 

Either way, if he's not careful, play like he exhibited on Sunday's going to cost the team.  

 

 

He looked utterly overwhelmed the entire game.

[Buffalo Ballin]

I don't know, but that should have been a late hit yellow flag somewhere.

[AuntieEm]

9 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Interesting theory.

 

Just searching for any reason to excuse away ab utterly awful 2nd half. 
 

I’ve got to imagine it’s much more likely we’re just grasping at straws to ease the pain.

Well it's more of a that would be a logical explanation as prior to that he was taking the shorter stuff and getting the passes completed.  It's just like if someone c I'd drunk they don't act like when they are sober. Except there's also the competitive aspect and if he isn't processing what he sees properly like in a convulsed fog that it hardly something he can control just as a person with other medical issues can't be held to same standards of clear thinking  and quick reflexes.  I do recall the play he seemed to trip on his own feet.  We know Josh generally y is pretty athletic and can walk  and run without difficulty.  Even in face of pressure.   I'd like to have Josh be asked if he did have a moment on that play where he felt any symptoms of concussion.  I'd bet every pro player has been concussion enough that on refle tion they could guess pretty a curated, if they did  likely get 9ne.  Except in case the pla,er  has had way too many to risk even one more.   Like like kuechly.  He would still be playing but for his brain being on verge of permanently being scrambled.

 

And while I accept that the pla,ers have the right to de ide if they are willing to risk their future health, I am not gonna hold a concussion player to the same standards of intelligent play.  I'd like the Bills to look into it even just internally so they can have a training staff keep track of the pla,ers we have that are more prone to concussions.  Like discreetly give Morse a check when he has been in any play that edible had hi. Get hit  in helmet with some force.  He's had e ougb his tolerance to hits to head is likel,very low.  I'd think k properly trained  staff could  deduce likelihood of one without fuss and no game is more important than any of the players health. I do hope you agree on that point.  It doesn't change the loss but it gives a valid e plantation for such a flip I. His play.  While he wasn't in total  super Josh MO d e  he wasn't processing what he was seeing as well as we have seen him play in past.   After my stroke I temp lost motor control of left side. I never lost feeling and once I started therapy I was surprised how much strength I lost in my leg muscles just from losing that brain connection.  I was an active  softball playing  letter carrier so I was in pretty good physical shape yet in a blink of however long it took for that location in my brain to die by the stroke  it wiped out years of muscle strength and it is a surreal feeling  to know how to walk and your trying to get that message to  muscle that just  doesn't hear the call.  Once I  rehabbed I did play softball again. And  while my running was slower due to  the slight dela, in sent signal my quick reflexes were unaffected and I still had the same speed Iin my reflexes. I guess the motor control is a different area of the rain from reflexes.  I'd expect t maybe they are tied to area of feeling as my sense of touch was never impaired by my stroke or even the brainsurgery I underwent.   I so had no memory losses or the speech issues that Kim suffered from her cardiac arrest.  

 

If you can't concede a different standard for an injured player I don't know how you could think it isn't a valid reason.  I guess you think Aaron Rodgers should  have touched it out and just had his ankle taped up to support the non existent Achilles  after all its not like he should be expected to be running around like a young player.  

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by AuntieEm

[Doc Brown]

There's no evidence that he was concussed although I will admit his comment after the game praising Jordan Mill's blocking on Leonard Williams struck me as odd.

[SydneyBillsFan]

Quote

Was Allen concussed?

 

Only between the ears.

[HIT BY SPIKES]

Circumstantial Evidence?

 

If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.

 

 

 

[Blackbeard]

I read this play as Allen putting his head down in disgust that he just got sacked. Nothing more. 

[quinnearlysghost88]

We did this exact same thing last time he played a bad game. Find the thread. 

[Coach Tuesday]

He’s not concussed he’s just a Gen Z’er with ADD.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

The Bills coaching staff is actively covering up concussions. 

[UKBillFan]

17 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

He’s not concussed he’s just a Gen Z’er with ADD.

 

No reason he can't be both.

[Shemp]

[nedboy7]

Why is he leaping over defenders when he is 6 yards from the marker.  He is playing a dangerous game w all these hits.  It will eventually get him. 

[Warriorspikes51]

2 minutes ago, Chaos said:

How is it possible fans watching on tv are more aware of what is going on in a game than the coaching staff?  is this normal?  

 

This.  Either Sean isn't saying what needs to be said....or Allen doesn't respect him enough to care....or both 

33 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Why is he leaping over defenders when he is 6 yards from the marker.  He is playing a dangerous game w all these hits.  It will eventually get him. 

I'm holding out hope it was only 1 hero ball game to try and impress Hailee 

[teef]

oh my god.

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

This.  Either Sean isn't saying what needs to be said....or Allen doesn't respect him enough to care....or both 

I'm holding out hope it was only 1 hero ball game to try and impress Hailee 

Turns out the report of concussion protocol was bogus.   I deleted my comment because I don’t think it is relevant in light of new information 

[DapperCam]

1 hour ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

We did this exact same thing last time he played a bad game. Find the thread. 

The last time I remember this being brought up was the Green Bay game last year where he forgot how to play football after the first half and started inexplicably throwing the ball to the other team.

 

It’s not impossible he got his bell rung then, and also had it happen Monday night.

 

Allen takes a lot of hits, and doesn’t strike me as the type to pull himself out of the game. Also, he has a documented concussion a few years ago.

[HardyBoy]

Joe Burrow has said he basically gets a concussion every game.