Was Allen concussed? Speculation with some circumstantial evidence.

[Rich Stadium Original]

On 9/11/2023 at 10:40 PM, Rich Stadium Original said:

Serious question..on one of the interceptions with Williams coming up the middle..Allen looked to to me to hit his head on the turf, and when he was helped up he had those concussion eyes..surprised he wasn't checked...wonder if he played a good quantity of the game with a concussion?

 

I posted this right after the game, but it kind of got buried in a post game thread. Play was actually after one of the interceptions.  Will have to look to see if I can find a clip or screen shot.

[TheBrownBear]

It would explain the insanity of hurdling for the sticks from 8 yards away

[BullBuchanan]

14 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

have you ever liked one Bills player?  

Tons of them. I'm a big fan of Allen, Diggs, Milano, Poyer, Hyde, Bates,Benford, Shakir and others.

You?

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, teef said:

oh my god.

 

What’s up teef?

[teef]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

What’s up teef?

oh...just busy with life stuff.  how about you.  this was a interesting thread btw...the oh my god wasn't towards you.

[PBF81]

7 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

He looked utterly overwhelmed the entire game.

 

I guess that could have been it, but it more looked like a "where am I" look.  

 

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

17 hours ago, Einstein said:

With 4:55 remaining in the 3rd quarter, Josh Allen stumbled forward and while on the ground, was hit in the back of the head by a very large and very heavy Quinnen Williams. The video of the hit is in the tweet below.

 

Circumstantial evidence:

 

1) In the video, you can see Quinnen Williams land on Allens head area. Once Quinnen rolls away, Allen raises his head for a moment, and then lowers his head back down to the turf (perhaps trying to compose himself) before getting back up. 

2) The very next play, Allen threw an interception into double coverage.

 

3) Prior to this hit, Allen was 21 of 25, 1 TD, 1 INT (84% passing)

 

4) After this hit, Allen went 8 of 16, 0 TD, 2 INT, 1 Lost Fumble (50% passing)

 

Or it could also simply be coincidence. That is also possible.

 

The video:

 

 

 

Mods/@Simon - If this post is better suited within another thread, please feel free to merge. I just thought it was an interesting topic. 

Actually, now that you mention it, I saw this in real time and thought that it might be a concussion. That would definitely explain the poor decision making.  Very possible...

[Goin Breakdown]

Why was there no flag on Williams when josh was already down. That guy is a POS and it seems like he's always doing something shady from grabbing junk to garbage like this. 
 

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

15 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

No more excuses. He needs to perform like a franchise qb.  

A concussion is not an excuse, it's an explaination. That being said, he needs to work harder at keeping himself out of harms way, so that he doesn't take hits like this. The recklessness is on him.

[Alphadawg7]

36 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Tons of them. I'm a big fan of Allen, Diggs, Milano, Poyer, Hyde, Bates,Benford, Shakir and others.

You?

You just don’t seem to like them much when you post about them in shout box during games or threads.  All good, Go Bills

Edited September 14, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Captain Caveman]

14 hours ago, finn said:

Didn't the same thing happen in the Green Bay game last year? 

Maybe - 
I was thinking also of the Vikings game

[gobills404]

I think he got concussed gain at the Jets last year too. And in the 2nd half of the packers game. And the 2nd half of the Vikings game. And in the playoffs last year. And against the Jags and Falcons in 2021. 

[BillsUberAlles]

13 hours ago, JohnNord said:

This is pretty much BS.  After what happened with Tua the league, team medical staff and players are likely on high alert for symptoms.  The fact that no one spotted any symptoms on the field, on the sidelines, or in the building on the days following the game is significant.  

 

Well, surprisingly or unsurprisingly the quality of the job they do is highly dependent on the people they have that day who are doing that job and varies greatly across the NFL.

[Rich Stadium Original]

https://www.nfl.com/videos/whitehead-picks-off-allen-again-on-intended-deep-shot-to-diggs

 

This is the play..clearly whacks the back of his head on the turf after the hit..one of the additional replays that I cant find had him getting up, and eyes were pretty glassy.

[gobills404]

14 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

It was speculated.

I believe there is a good chance that Allen has several undocumented concussions.

 

 

 

 

We know for a fact he was concussed on this play, and he didn’t become a turnover machine afterwards 🤷‍♂️

 

[Real McClappy]

15 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

A concussion is not an excuse, it's an explaination. That being said, he needs to work harder at keeping himself out of harms way, so that he doesn't take hits like this. The recklessness is on him.

Reckless that some 300+ lb dude comes from behind you while on your belly (down) and slams into you head? Isn't that more reckless on Quinnen Williams? Isn't that the job of the Refs to protect QB or in this case Josh Allen?

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Real McNasty

[BuffaloBillyG]

I believe everytime Allen has had a bad game he was concussed. Only logical explanation.

[BullBuchanan]

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

You just don’t seem to like them much when you post about them in shout box during games or threads.  All good, Go Bills

I'm just able to criticize players I like, because I want them to be better instead of just thinking they're perfect when they aren't.

[Real McClappy]

4 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

We know for a fact he was concussed on this play, and he didn’t become a turnover machine afterwards 🤷‍♂️

 

You understand that no 2 concussions are the same correct?

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, gobills404 said:

I think he got concussed gain at the Jets last year too. And in the 2nd half of the packers game. And the 2nd half of the Vikings game. And in the playoffs last year. And against the Jags and Falcons in 2021. 

Im not saying he was concussed, but saying he’s had other bad games before has literally nothing to do with whether he was concussed or affected in this one.  Every great QB has had many bad games, but that doesn’t mean an injury can’t ever be a factor in any of their other games.

 

Personally, I don’t actually think he was concussed and it was just a situation where he made some bad mistakes pressing too hard trying to do too much.  But at the same time, it is possible given the circumstances of that play they showed so I can’t for sure he wasn’t.  

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I'm just able to criticize players I like, because I want them to be better instead of just thinking they're perfect when they aren't.

Coolio and fair enough…but maybe mix in some positivity when things are good too for a little balance  

 

Go Bills!

[gobills404]

2 minutes ago, Real McNasty said:

You understand that no 2 concussions are the same correct?

You’re right. The hit where he got knocked out and placed in concussion protocol wasn’t actually that bad because he didn’t suck afterwards.

[pocoboy]

The officials definitely favored green in this game. The quick taunt flag on Milano, that hit is wicked late, the trip on the final play (they still would have had stacked odds to make a FG and win the game regardless). I wouldn't want to blame the loss on the officiating, and even if they throw a flag there it doesn't change whatever damage was done.

 

But...if you go back and look at Cheffers officiating the Bills...his crew is almost always nailing them for more flags than the opponent...

[Einstein]

16 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

We know for a fact he was concussed on this play, and he didn’t become a turnover machine afterwards 🤷‍♂️

 

 

Well, yeah, he didn't play the rest of that game. You can't turn the ball over if you're not on the field.

[gobills404]

6 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Well, yeah, he didn't play the rest of that game. You can't turn the ball over if you're not on the field.

Yeah no duh *insert username*. I’m obviously talking about in the following games that season, and you know it. Stop being intentionally obtuse.

Edited September 14, 2023 by gobills404

[jethro_tull]

18 hours ago, Einstein said:

With 4:55 remaining in the 3rd quarter, Josh Allen stumbled forward and while on the ground, was hit in the back of the head by a very large and very heavy Quinnen Williams. The video of the hit is in the tweet below.

 

Circumstantial evidence:

 

1) In the video, you can see Quinnen Williams land on Allens head area. Once Quinnen rolls away, Allen raises his head for a moment, and then lowers his head back down to the turf (perhaps trying to compose himself) before getting back up. 

2) The very next play, Allen threw an interception into double coverage.

 

3) Prior to this hit, Allen was 21 of 25, 1 TD, 1 INT (84% passing)

 

4) After this hit, Allen went 8 of 16, 0 TD, 2 INT, 1 Lost Fumble (50% passing)

 

Or it could also simply be coincidence. That is also possible.

 

The video:

 

 

 

Mods/@Simon - If this post is better suited within another thread, please feel free to merge. I just thought it was an interesting topic. 

i wondered the same thing during the game

[Einstein]

43 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

Yeah no duh *insert username*. I’m obviously talking about in the following games that season, and you know it. Stop being intentionally obtuse.

 

I wasn't intentionally trying to be obtuse.

 

This scenario is one in which we speculate if he had a concussion in-game, and if that concussion (in-game) affected his plays (in-game). 

 

No one is making the argument that it would affect him next week against the Raiders.

Therefore, I don't see how the comparison to the New England game, where he left the game and didn't play until the following week, has any standing.

[RyanC883]

17 hours ago, Lost said:

I thought the hit to the head looked kinda deliberate watching it live.  Looked like a Christian Wilkins kind of play.

 

I was upset at the lack of flag, and the lack of response from the OL on that play.  

 

But no, I don't think he was concussed and dazed the rest of the game.  He would have gotten pulled by McD if he was actually dazed. 

[Shemp]

If he was actually concussed, they might need to sit him this game v Raiders. It would be just like the Bills to play a concussed QB because there's no other option.

[Jukester]

Thanks OP for starting this thread. I also remember thinking the same thing on the plays being referenced above.  Granted, there are players getting micro concussed on pretty much every play.  But the look on Allen’s face on these were fairly indicative that he was getting his bell rung pretty good. It also might explain his quickness to bail on the pocket time and again. Whether it led directly to the interceptions is questionable but it may have contributed to his lack of patience. Definitely something to keep an eye on.

[ExiledInIllinois]

4 hours ago, pocoboy said:

The officials definitely favored green in this game. The quick taunt flag on Milano, that hit is wicked late, the trip on the final play (they still would have had stacked odds to make a FG and win the game regardless). I wouldn't want to blame the loss on the officiating, and even if they throw a flag there it doesn't change whatever damage was done.

 

But...if you go back and look at Cheffers officiating the Bills...his crew is almost always nailing them for more flags than the opponent...

Probably had some money on the Jets in Vegas! 

[Dan]

I find it interesting how many people have completely dumped on Josh this week.  He clearly had a bad game.  Why is good question to ask.   But..

for so many people to come to the conclusion that his entire career up to this point is a mirage - he cant read defenses, he cant make good decisions, he doesn't prepare, he can’t learn, he’s disobeying the coaches, he’s focused on holywood. 
 

I guess I just don’t understand the vitriol towards him.  He had a bad game.  Period.  Was he concussed, the jets just that good, or he has been foolin us for 5 years, I don’t know.  But seems we should give him some benefit of doubt.  He’s not above criticism.  But he should have earned a little more leeway than most people are giving him. 

 

[AuntieEm]

8 hours ago, gobills404 said:

Yeah no duh *insert username*. I’m obviously talking about in the following games that season, and you know it. Stop being intentionally obtuse.

 Yes but at the same time when he played those games after he was no longer suffering any symptoms.  If he did get concussed he was still in a brain muddled st as te during this game which the passing stats  dosupport the possibility.  No one can know for sure if a concussion occurred but as Allen has in past worked and corrected some issues I will give him the benefit of the doubt in this game. 

 

 

 

[Beck Water]

On 9/13/2023 at 5:21 PM, balln said:

Def possible.

 

also possible he’s trying to draw a late hit flag 

 

 

 

Seems pretty straightforward that he should have gotten one, honestly.

5 hours ago, Dan said:

I find it interesting how many people have completely dumped on Josh this week.  He clearly had a bad game.  Why is good question to ask.   But..

for so many people to come to the conclusion that his entire career up to this point is a mirage - he cant read defenses, he cant make good decisions, he doesn't prepare, he can’t learn, he’s disobeying the coaches, he’s focused on holywood. 
 

I guess I just don’t understand the vitriol towards him.  He had a bad game.  Period.  Was he concussed, the jets just that good, or he has been foolin us for 5 years, I don’t know.  But seems we should give him some benefit of doubt.  He’s not above criticism.  But he should have earned a little more leeway than most people are giving him. 

 

 

Yeah I don’t understand the whole can’t read defenses/ can’t make good decisions/ doesn’t prepare/ can’t learn/ focused on Hollywood stuff.

 

He had a bad game, and it’s after the last two games he played were bad games.  Allen has alluded to not staying within the structure of the play/needing to see the field as Dorsey does.  McDermott has alluded to Allen running less and they talk about it but it doesn’t happen.  So I think there’s some evidence that Allen may not be wholly accepting of coaching on some points at present.

[AlfaBill]

On 9/13/2023 at 4:22 PM, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Interesting theory.

 

Just searching for any reason to excuse away ab utterly awful 2nd half. 
 

I’ve got to imagine it’s much more likely we’re just grasping at straws to ease the pain.

It’s definitely strange how his game went to ***** after that hit though. Allen has not played that badly since his rookie year. Also that hit was dirty. He purposely hits him in the head area 

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Seems pretty straightforward that he should have gotten one, honestly.

 

Yeah I don’t understand the whole can’t read defenses/ can’t make good decisions/ doesn’t prepare/ can’t learn/ focused on Hollywood stuff.

 

He had a bad game, and it’s after the last two games he played were bad games.  Allen has alluded to not staying within the structure of the play/needing to see the field as Dorsey does.  McDermott has alluded to Allen running less and they talk about it but it doesn’t happen.  So I think there’s some evidence that Allen may not be wholly accepting of coaching on some points at present.

The bengals game the whole team played badly. Josh was definitely off that night. This game was very different. He looked like a lost rookie in the 2nd half. 

5 hours ago, Dan said:

I find it interesting how many people have completely dumped on Josh this week.  He clearly had a bad game.  Why is good question to ask.   But..

for so many people to come to the conclusion that his entire career up to this point is a mirage - he cant read defenses, he cant make good decisions, he doesn't prepare, he can’t learn, he’s disobeying the coaches, he’s focused on holywood. 
 

I guess I just don’t understand the vitriol towards him.  He had a bad game.  Period.  Was he concussed, the jets just that good, or he has been foolin us for 5 years, I don’t know.  But seems we should give him some benefit of doubt.  He’s not above criticism.  But he should have earned a little more leeway than most people are giving him. 

 

Easy to understand. Most people are dumb. Short team memory with low IQ. 
simple. 

[Rocky Landing]

On 9/13/2023 at 5:11 PM, Lost said:

Josh is going to have to go to Judo training with Tua soon.  

 

 

I actually like Tua. Seems like a pretty decent guy. But I’d still pay to see Josh kick his ass. 

[Doc]

16 hours ago, Dan said:

I find it interesting how many people have completely dumped on Josh this week.  He clearly had a bad game.  Why is good question to ask.   But..

for so many people to come to the conclusion that his entire career up to this point is a mirage - he cant read defenses, he cant make good decisions, he doesn't prepare, he can’t learn, he’s disobeying the coaches, he’s focused on holywood. 
 

I guess I just don’t understand the vitriol towards him.  He had a bad game.  Period.  Was he concussed, the jets just that good, or he has been foolin us for 5 years, I don’t know.  But seems we should give him some benefit of doubt.  He’s not above criticism.  But he should have earned a little more leeway than most people are giving him. 

 

I don't think that dumping on him for having a terrible game where he single-handedly lost it for the team is inappropriate.  People saying he sucks and they need to find a new QB though are just dumb.  And so too is dismissing the possibility that he got concussed on any number of the hits and hits to the head he took against the Jets.

[Eastport bills]

On 9/13/2023 at 6:22 PM, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Interesting theory.

 

Just searching for any reason to excuse away ab utterly awful 2nd half. 
 

I’ve got to imagine it’s much more likely we’re just grasping at straws to ease the pain.

Nice to see a fair weather fan jump ship after a bad performance. Why does any assertion of a head injury seem like an excuse. You know Josh leaves his body on the field for this team every week. He exposed himself to some hard hits Monday night. Nice of you to crush the guy after his worst game in 5 seasons. Hopefully your friends and family are more supportive of you when you mess up.

[Jerome007]

I recall that play. Josh is lying prone, a DL known for foul play dives in for his head. How is that not a foul?

[EmotionallyUnstable]

4 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

Nice to see a fair weather fan jump ship after a bad performance. Why does any assertion of a head injury seem like an excuse. You know Josh leaves his body on the field for this team every week. He exposed himself to some hard hits Monday night. Nice of you to crush the guy after his worst game in 5 seasons. Hopefully your friends and family are more supportive of you when you mess up.

Hang on, what?

 

Did I send Allen hate mail with death threats or post a fair (two words?) critisism of his performance on a message board discussing football? Is this not what we are on this board to do? Where did I just off any proverbial ship other than suggest fans are excusing away Allen’s play? What’s that have to do with him, my fandom and level of support or belief in this team?

 

My comments were more geared toward the fans perception and theories than anything Allen related. I’m unsure as to why this post seems to have trigged a response where as there a hundred of much worse, harsher and irrational takes out there. 

 

Your post is irrational. This is the insecure girlfriend yelling “why don’t you love me anymore?!” Blowing a simple and generally accepted idea out of proportion for what, to one up others as you are holier as a fan because you’d rather accept any other reason that Allen played bad aside from what it was: Allen played bad.  Let’s call a spade, a spade. 

 

He was utterly awful (as previously stated, I’ll say it again, sorry if it offends you) in the 2nd half. If you know anything about my posting, I am very pro-Allen (who isn’t!). I even in another thread stated how well he played in the first half. That being said, I’m also not a blind homer. Anyone can see that’s a fair criticism to make, to a board of fans, discussing football. If you want harmony and positivity, try seasame street.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

I recall that play. Josh is lying prone, a DL known for foul play dives in for his head. How is that not a foul?

 

If anyone had done that to Brady there would have been an immediate execution.