Boogie traded to Giants

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, zow2 said:

Schoen and Daboll absolutely love bringing in Bills players.  Reminds me of when McBeane first got here and every other transaction was a former or current Carolina Panthers player.

 

Never really worked out either.  Addison, Klein, Tolbert, Benjamin, Webb, Johnson... 

[ngbills]

4 minutes ago, Process said:

More likely means Kingsley makes the team 

That is what I was thinking. They fall in love with guys like this but then he comes back to earth and is on the ps. 

[wppete]

For what? What did we get I return? 

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

So To make this assumption, and keep with me here... you may be right.. But to make this assumption, Kingsley would have had to of shown that he could do good things against starters. now correct me if I am wrong but I do not think he has done that. 

What is inserted into some playing time last year and played pretty well

[thenorthremembers]

2 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

I think people are just commenting on this trade because its a tacit admission by the FO that they blew this pick.  The "averages 2 sacks a year" part is exactly why it's relevant.

If people had a realistic view of the NFL draft they'd realize more picks are missed than hit.   The real litmus test for an organization is win/loss and the Bills are doing more than fine in that category. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by thenorthremembers

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Mostly true.  But no homeruns?  None?  

 

I didnt say none. We all know the one he hit. And it was a doozy. But let's also be real here. I'm not saying fire the guy. I'm saying he has trouble finding the elite talent in the early rounds.

 

Josh was a top-10 pick so easier to do there. Picking later in the round is tough, but get me a triple with a couple runs batted in at least. Beane needs to dial it in better in the 1st and 2nd. I dont think that is an unreasonable assessment.

[PrimeTime101]

Just now, Process said:

Neither has Boogie

correct, but to replace someone there has to be proof that has happened. Boogie started against Chicago last week and well.. held his own in the running game. Showcasing Boogie to the team they planned on trading to.  Its a hard pill for me to swallow thinking that could be the case. 

[John from Riverside]

I remember whenever we drafted both groot and buggy, one right after the other, and I was thinking to myself. If both of these guys pan out, we are going to be really set on our defensive line.

 

Now it looks like we should’ve went another direction with that second round pick

[mannc]

1 minute ago, BillsFanSD said:

I think people are just commenting on this trade because its a tacit admission by the FO that they blew this pick.  The "averages 2 sacks a year" part is exactly why it's relevant.

There were reports that Basham had a really good camp, so some people perhaps hoped he had turned a corner and was going to play up to his draft position…but alas, it appears he was going to be cut.

[Jauronimo]

6 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

 

The draft he did before Beane was here, and also the game day roster is usually spot on.

McDermott had Whaley, a team of scouts, and insider knowledge of Carolinas draft board which some have argued came from Beane.  He didn't run a draft.  He mostly punted since we had a lame duck GM which is why we didn't take a QB.

 

The game day roster he assembles with players drafted and signed by Beane?

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Never really worked out either.  Addison, Klein, Tolbert, Benjamin, Webb, Johnson... 

 

Worked out perfectly for what the FO wanted them to do, which was "buy in" to the new HC and set the example to the other guys in the locker room that they should listen to McD and "trust the process".

[DC Greg]

2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Player who averages 2 sacks a year gets traded and OBD goes nuts.   Please God can the real season start already.

 

I'm glad they cut bait if a player isn't going to pan out. If Kingsley is outplaying him and this means he makes the 53, awesome. It's great to have a GM that won't be scared to admit a mistake and will make sure the best players make the roster.

At the same time, it's more than fair to question Beane's drafts. Way too many late first/second/third round misses. Whoever is scouting these picks or whoever is the main driver for taking them needs to take a step back in the draft room. Time for some changes there... or maybe there already have been? Looks like we (hopefully) nailed a game changing playmaking tight end and a starting offensive lineman this year. If those pan out, whoever is advising Beane on that front needs to be empowered more.

[CountDorkula]

5 minutes ago, boyst said:

A topmcomment on Twitter from a giants guy was the giants are excited for having him and this bills are happy for more draft capital as they plan to rebuild?

 

What? What planned rebuild?

The Bills are 41 mil over the cap next year according to spotrac. They have work to do. it partly speaks to the not being able to get rookie players contributing. 
 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2024/

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

I remember whenever we drafted both groot and buggy, one right after the other, and I was thinking to myself. If both of these guys pan out, we are going to be really set on our defensive line.

 

Now it looks like we should’ve went another direction with that second round pick

I think sometimes you do that In hope you have at least 1 player coming out of that draft that DOES work out.

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

There is one HR a GM can hit..one.   And thats drafting a franchise QB.  He hit the HR already. 

 

GM needs to hit 2 HRs.  QB and HC....

[VaMilBill]

1 minute ago, PrimeTime101 said:

correct, but to replace someone there has to be proof that has happened. Boogie started against Chicago last week and well.. held his own in the running game. Showcasing Boogie to the team they planned on trading to.  Its a hard pill for me to swallow thinking that could be the case. 

Shaq Lawson is better to a Boogie. Glad we got rid of him for something at this point 

[uticaclub]

2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

If people had a realistic view of the NFL draft they'd realize more picks are missed than hit.   The real litmus test for an organization is win/loss and the Bills are doing more than fine in that category.

We might be better at drafting than half the teams in the league, but KC & Cinci have drafted better than us, meaning Josh has to do even more to beat the teams ahead of us in the AFC.

[Mango]

30 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Last year the Jets drafted two All Pros in Round 1 and the Bills drafted a 4th string corner.  Allen is saving Beane's job right now.

 

31 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

I like Beane... but I will say that the early round trash pile has been growing around this team, and they need to start getting some mileage out of some of these guys or they will lose ground

 

I agree with this. Taking all the names and specific player story lines out of it, the Bills waste a lot of top 100 picks.

Like a lot of them. 

 

I don't hate moving on from Basham. I hate that we are moving on from another top 100 pick for what seems like the 100th time. 

The bill has yet to come due on Josh Allen ($18M in 2023/12th overall), and we are pushed tight against the cap with huge holes at OL, LB/LB depth, and WR. I posit its because we keep missing in the top 100 and keep redrafting the same positions over and over so we spend in FA at all sorts of position groups that don't really pan out when compared to pay grade.

The FO needs to get much better at this or it will eventually catch up with this team. I suspect that time is coming fairly soon as the bill for Josh and Diggs starts to get bigger and bigger

[thenorthremembers]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

GM needs to hit 2 HRs.  QB and HC....

I dont fully disagree, but nowadays it seems like its en vogue to hire the coach before the GM.

[Bangarang]

6 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

But they didn’t have to do anything at all.  

They got him for nothing. They at least liked him enough to not want to compete with other teams when got cut.

[RunninRebel37]

Hmmm…when are folks gonna really be objective about his drafting. Outside of the 2018 draft, what’s he done? The core of this team was truly drafted by - wait for it…Doug Whaley 

 

Beane 1st & 2nd round picks 

 

2018- knocked it out the park obviously 

 

2019 - Oliver : description of mediocre/ Ford: bust 

 

2020- Diggs: he’s Him….not a draft choice but I’ll give it to Beane/ Epenesa: we’ll below average to borderline bust 

 

2021- Rousseau: average to slightly above average/ Bassham: bust 

 

2022- Elam: BUST/ Cook: TBD (but it’s not to question this pick since this teams used 3 valuable picks since 2019 to draft RB and not one has shown they’re an answer or complimentary for this team

[BillsPride12]

13 minutes ago, buffblue said:

And right after drafting a DE in the 1st round 😡

Yes!  It was a terrible pick.  Drafting Creed there was such a layup.  I was pissed that night and even more pissed now

[boyst]

1 minute ago, CountDorkula said:

The Bills are 41 mil over the cap next year according to spotrac. They have work to do. it partly speaks to the not being able to get rookie players contributing. 
 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2024/

🤮 we have wasted so many premium picks. I am already seeing writing on the wall for the legacy this team will leave, FO and all.

 

Nothing about this organization seems organized and structured in a symbiotic cohesive manner. 

[BillsFanSD]

14 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Mostly true.  But no homeruns?  None?  

Yeah, this is weird.  Aside from the one blindingly obvious home run at the most important position in North American sports, I think Gabe Davis, Milano, and Tre all qualify as "home runs" given their performance and draft position.  (Davis isn't an elite WR, but he's a high-quality starter that we got in the middle rounds -- that should count IMO but I can see how others might feel differently).  (Edit: My bad -- Beane wasn't the person who actually drafted White or Milano.  Leaving it because I don't like editing out mistakes, and also I'm happy with the general state of our FO and not that interested in parsing out who gets the credit between the GM, HC, and owner).

 

It's definitely too early to call Rousseau a home run, but he's trending that way and I'll be a little disappointed if we don't see him as a long-term anchor at DE in a year or two. 

 

It would be fair to note that a lot of Beane's big wins came in free agency or the trade market -- Poyer and Hyde, Diggs, Morse, and maybe another guy or two.  But that all falls under the same general heading of "talent evaluation."  He's done well there.

Edited August 29, 2023 by BillsFanSD

[FilthyBeast]

Initial thoughts:

 

1) Massive swing and miss by Beane, again at some point he needs to be held accountable for years of horrendous drafting outside of JA17.

2) Personally I would have move AJE instead but beyond Miller/Rouseau most of these guys are interchangeable and the same marginal DE.

3) If for some reason Basham goes to the Giants and explodes then the microscope moves from Beane to McD and his staff, does make you wonder especially seeing Jerry Hughes magically improve his sack numbers with the Texans last year after not doing much in Buffalo in recent years.

[BADOLBILZ]

26 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Clearly Boogie was going to get cut so we got anything we could for him... which is basically a bag of potatoes.

 

What an awful pick .. and so many fans knew it was awful from jump.  Ugh...

 

 

Not even a "sack" of potatoes.......just a bag.

 

Creed Humphrey fans be like:

 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

Yeah, this is weird.  Aside from the one blindingly obvious home run at the most important position in North American sports, I think Gabe Davis, Milano, and Tre all qualify as "home runs" given their performance and draft position.  (Davis isn't an elite WR, but he's a high-quality starter that we got in the middle rounds -- that should count IMO but I can see how others might feel differently).  

 

It's definitely too early to call Rousseau a home run, but he's trending that way and I'll be a little disappointed if we don't see him as a long-term anchor at DE in a year or two. 

 

It would be fair to note that a lot of Beane's big wins came in free agency or the trade market -- Poyer and Hyde, Diggs, Morse, and maybe another guy or two.  But that all falls under the same general heading of "talent evaluation."  He's done well there.

 

Beane didnt draft Milano or Tre, so I stopped reading right there. Thank you, Doug Whaley and the Whaley Scout team.

 

edit: ok, i kept reading. I love Rousseau, but he isnt a homerun. A homerun is a pro-bowl player who can change the game. He's good, but he's not dominant. Yet.

The fact that most of Beane's "hits" come in FA IS THE PROBLEM. FA's cost too much money. We need to find playmakers with low cost draft picks.

Edited August 29, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[Roundybout]

2 minutes ago, RunninRebel37 said:

Hmmm…when are folks gonna really be objective about his drafting. Outside of the 2018 draft, what’s he done? The core of this team was truly drafted by - wait for it…Doug Whaley 

 

Beane 1st & 2nd round picks 

 

2018- knocked it out the park obviously 

 

2019 - Oliver : description of mediocre/ Ford: bust 

 

2020- Diggs: he’s Him….not a draft choice but I’ll give it to Beane/ Epenesa: we’ll below average to borderline bust 

 

2021- Rousseau: average to slightly above average/ Bassham: bust 

 

2022- Elam: BUST/ Cook: TBD (but it’s not to question this pick since this teams used 3 valuable picks since 2019 to draft RB and not one has shown they’re an answer or complimentary for this team

You cannot call Elam a bust after a season and a half. 
 

Cook hardly played last season.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

36 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

On question about this trade:

 

Did we bash ‘em?

Beane's boogieing over this one.

 

40 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said:

What’s the return?! 

What's the frequency, Basham?

[Rc2catch]

2 minutes ago, RunninRebel37 said:

2022- Elam: BUST

This is such a silly thing to say. 
Dudes played 400 snaps in the pros, you can’t bust that quick unless you’re out of the league. Isiah Wilson, there’s a bust. 

[Augie]

I think he did all this just to piss people off. I’m loving it!  😂 

 

[CountDorkula]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Beane didnt draft Milano or Tre, so I stopped reading right there. Thank you, Doug Whaley and the Whaley Scout team.

Was about to say. Beane had nothing to do with that. 
 

Beane has drafted Allen and that’s pretty much it. 

[JerseyBills]

That's why he hot so much playing time with the 1s and started some games even. 

I thought he could have added value inside but no biggie. AJE and Groot will make some big steps I feel 

[John from Riverside]

5 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

Initial thoughts:

 

1) Massive swing and miss by Beane, again at some point he needs to be held accountable for years of horrendous drafting outside of JA17.

2) Personally I would have move AJE instead but beyond Miller/Rouseau most of these guys are interchangeable and the same marginal DE.

3) If for some reason Basham goes to the Giants and explodes then the microscope moves from Beane to McD and his staff, does make you wonder especially seeing Jerry Hughes magically improve his sack numbers with the Texans last year after not doing much in Buffalo in recent years.

Yeah, he’ll be held accountable whenever the bills are not one of the top teams in the NFL one of these years
 

Until then…..

[Dr. K]

11 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

I think people are just commenting on this trade because its a tacit admission by the FO that they blew this pick.  The "averages 2 sacks a year" part is exactly why it's relevant.

Maybe, while acknowledging that it was a poor draft pick, we might give them credit for cutting Basham loose if they have other players who can do what he does. A better move than to fall prey to the Sunk Cost fallacy. 

[Warriorspikes51]

whatever I guess, if teams knew he was going to be released, the Bills have 0 leverage 

[Big C]

Wasn’t boogie looking better this preseason? I don’t really understand this trade. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

14 minutes ago, boyst said:

A topmcomment on Twitter from a giants guy was the giants are excited for having him and this bills are happy for more draft capital as they plan to rebuild?

 

What? What planned rebuild?

Sometimes those closest are the last to know...😕

[Buffalo_Stampede]

15 minutes ago, wppete said:

For what? What did we get I return? 

My guess is a 5th.

[CountDorkula]

7 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

You cannot call Elam a bust after a season and a half. 
 

Cook hardly played last season.

Elam is currently 4th on the CB depth chart. 

 

it’s bordering.