Elam the Next Teller?

[Luka]

My biggest pet peeve with this front office and coaching staff is rearing its ugly head yet again this offseason.

 

We pick Elam with our 1st round pick last year. He is a physically gifted cover corner with great size and ball skills. When given a chance to play late last year, he was excellent against guys like Tyreek Hill and Jamar Chase, two of the best receivers in the league.

 

And he's in a competition for the #2 corner position... with Dane Jackson... 

 

A couple days ago Chris Brown mentioned on One Bills Drive he may lose this competition because of... now get this... his ability to set the edge in the run game... 

 

To me, this kind of thing is exactly why this staff can not get over the hump and win it all. This is a passing league. The defense is in a unique position to have two elite corners on either side of the field, which frees up Poyer and Hyde to make plays, allows Taron Johnson to be more aggressive in run support and gives the defensive line that extra second needed to get to the quarterback.

 

But we're worried about run support? From an outside corner? That's why Benford and Jackson are rotating out there? Who by the way, are typically getting torched in coverage. Dane Jackson is said to always be around the ball... okay but a yard behind the receiver while he's making a big play isn't exactly what I'd be looking for as a coach when evaluating a defensive back.

 

And Elam's strengths and weaknesses coming out of Florida were no mystery, this isn't something that should have come as a shock to McDermott. So why pick him there?

 

He is corner 1 talent level and would most likely be in that spot on a lot of other teams in this league. At some point this staff needs to get out of it's own way or they will waste the career of one of the best quarterbacks to ever step on a football field. 

 

[JoPoy88]

Trading Teller was an isolated mistake. There’s no indication they will do the same with Elam. Which can’t even be known at this point, since we, and the Bills, didn’t know Teller would turn into a pro bowl guard. So even if they did trade Elam (which they won’t) there’s no guarantee he would turn into an excellent corner somewhere else. 

[DJB]

Teller wasn’t a first round pick I’m not seeing the similarities as much.

 

1st round picks get much more rope before they are cut or dealt 

 

Elam is fine

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

Teller wasn't a first round pick

Elam hasn't been traded

Teller plays offense

Elam plays defense

[JAMIEBUF12]

I think I will trust whoever Mcdermott picks to be the number two corner.Since Mcdermott got here the Bills have had a pretty good secondary.

[DCofNC]

If the decision genuinely comes down to run support, we should support running this coaching staff out of town.  
 

My read is Elam isn’t a great practice player and McD can’t let that go.

[BuffaloBillyG]

I think the biggest issues for Jackson last year was being CB1 for a large part of it. He's not that. As a CB2, he's better suited there.

 

Both Elam and Jackson are said to be having very strong camps. This is a good problem to have. It's a long season and they will both likely make starts. As you point out, it's a passing league. So having multiple guys that present different skills is a huge bonus. It really doesn't matter who starts opposite Tre. What matters is what they do with the opportunity.

 

My biggest thing when it comes to the position (or any camp battle for that matter) is that I want one guy to TAKE the position. Make it so the coaches have no choice but to keep him there. Who it is is not my concern. They all wear the same laundry.

[SCBills]

Everything I’ve heard about Elam has been trending up, so I’m not too worried about this. 

[Matt_In_NH]

I would not get too excited about something Chris brown says.   OP is taking CB’s opinion as something the staff is doing.   Best man wins period who cares where he was drafted.  I think that will be Elam in the end and they are just not handing it to him.  Comparing this to teller is silly at best.   
 

Every GM and coach has made moves that tune out different than they expected.  Continually pointing to one move out of hundreds/thiousands as proof of anything is not helpful.   Look at the body of work.  

[mike22nc]

Teller doesn’t really have anything to do with the discussion on Elam.

 

However, the problem that I see is that this coaching staff prioritizes fundamentals over talent. So, since Jackson and Benford had a better handle on the defense and what is expected as a zone corner, they got more opportunities last year.
 

This is all well and good when you are playing mediocre quarterbacks on mediocre offenses. The scheme dictates those games and we win easily. The downside is when we play teams with top-tier talent, we are less able to compete. We’re not prioritizing our most athletically gifted player at CB, which is the position that requires the most athleticism in football.

 

If Elam looked like a bust when given an opportunity, I would understand. But, he has looked the part so far to me. I fully expect Elam to be the CB2 this season. If he’s not, it is an error IMO.

[Bills!Win!]

I look at it as we traded Teller for Poyer

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Never mind.  Wrong type of 'teller'. 😕

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

I look at it as we traded Teller for Poyer

 

Huh?  Poyer was signed in 2017 and Teller was traded in 2019.

[oldmanfan]

Only Bills fans complain about having three corners with ability vying for a job in a passing league.  I love that we have 4 corners, including Tre, that can perform.

[uticaclub]

22 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

I look at it as we traded Teller for Poyer

Both were on the same team at the same time

[NoSaint]

36 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

If the decision genuinely comes down to run support, we should support running this coaching staff out of town.  
 

My read is Elam isn’t a great practice player and McD can’t let that go.

there’s also a reality that it could be messaging to light a fire in camp, not a real demotion consideration but who knows 

[Bills!Win!]

25 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Huh?  Poyer was signed in 2017 and Teller was traded in 2019.

 

8 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Both were on the same team at the same time

we still ended up with Poyer and they ended up with teller 

[PBF81]

7 hours ago, mike22nc said:

Teller doesn’t really have anything to do with the discussion on Elam.

 

However, the problem that I see is that this coaching staff prioritizes fundamentals over talent. So, since Jackson and Benford had a better handle on the defense and what is expected as a zone corner, they got more opportunities last year.
 

This is all well and good when you are playing mediocre quarterbacks on mediocre offenses. The scheme dictates those games and we win easily. The downside is when we play teams with top-tier talent, we are less able to compete. We’re not prioritizing our most athletically gifted player at CB, which is the position that requires the most athleticism in football.

 

If Elam looked like a bust when given an opportunity, I would understand. But, he has looked the part so far to me. I fully expect Elam to be the CB2 this season. If he’s not, it is an error IMO.

 

Yours is an interesting comment and stands to reason.  There have often been disconnects between what this team says it wants to do, with how it drafts or signs free-agents.  Elam may be one of them.  Edmunds was, expect him to perform better in Chicago in a traditional 4-3, not the 2 LB alignment that we play.  

 

Here's there thing there, we played a 3 LB alignment while Lorax was here for three seasons, but then switched to a 2 LB alignment and went the next three seasons like that.  Why?  

 

McD apologists will tell you that it's a planned thing, but that doesn't make sense, because they continued to try 3, but simply didn't have the talent for three starting LBs.  So they went with two.  Which begs questions.  If the 2 LB thing was his innovation, them why not 2 LBs all all along.  Why did they continue to try 3, and presumably had it worked and they had found that third starter, then they wouldn't have gone to 2.  That's demonstrative of reaction, not proaction.  

 

Coincidence that once Lorax retired and all we had was depth level talent to replace him, is when McD changed it?  

 

They emphasize style and scheme, but seem to draft around it at times in their to picks, which could very well be why we have underachieving high draft picks. 

 

Same with this season generally speaking, the official narrative is "attacking D," but what does that really mean practically.  All D's are attacking to one extent or another.  By definition that's role of a D generally speaking. 

 

It's time for the season, the games begin shortly.  This season will be a revealing one as things currently on the fence appear to be set to fall one way or the other.  McD is a polarizing coach in some ways, and this season is going to be a definitive one in that way as well.  Fans and media are going to become less patient with divisional much less wild-card round playoff losses as well.  

 

It's also camp right now, everything's unicorns and lollipops.  

 

Sit tight, enjoy the season, don't forget to lurk in the gameday threads, laughter is good for the soul.  😁      

 

Several things are going to shake out this season, for better or for worse, ... hopefully for the better.  

 

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by PBF81

[Paul Costa]

Silly premise 😝

[RyanC883]

57 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

If the decision genuinely comes down to run support, we should support running this coaching staff out of town.  
 

My read is Elam isn’t a great practice player and McD can’t let that go.

 

That’s what I’ve heard, and McD needs to let that go.  Game performance is what matters. (if Elam is slacking that is different) 

Edited August 6, 2023 by RyanC883

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Luka said:

 

Elam the Next Teller?

 

 

 

No real connection there beyond one in your mind. Early vs. late rounder, offense vs. defense, skill position vs. line, never showed likelihood he'd start when the line rounded into shape here vs. right in the battle for a starting role, guy who seemed maybe possibly tradeable in his second year vs. a guy who won't be traded in his second year ...

 

As for Chris saying run support is the problem, did he say he got that from anyone who knows? I'm sure it's a factor for any CB, but a relatively minor one. It'll be 80% their ability to trust him not to make mistakes in the pass game, or lack of said trust. I'll gladly admit I was wrong if Chris says he has a specific source for this. Doesn't have to name him, just say he has a source, with a link to him saying that.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Thurman#1

[wppete]

Elam is still only 22 years old and he is improving. He is a hard worker, smart and has all the physical abilities to be a solid CB. I think he will have a solid season this year. Starting or rotating in. 

[BananaB]

I wouldn’t be worried about them trading him, more worried about him just sitting on the roster behind average play and not developing at a fast enough speed for him to help this team. Put him in, he either figures it out or we know we made a mistake. Practice does no show the true story, that’s why McDermott looked like a moron starting Peterman twice. 

[K-9]

It’s nice if a CB is able to turn a running play into the pursuit or come up and make a tackle or two when needed, but if you’re relying on your CB to set the edge you have big problems with your defense. 

[Doc]

27 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

we still ended up with Poyer and they ended up with teller 

 

The Bills could have ended up with both.

[Sierra Foothills]

 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Luka said:

My biggest pet peeve with this front office and coaching staff is rearing its ugly head yet again this offseason.

 

We pick Elam with our 1st round pick last year. He is a physically gifted cover corner with great size and ball skills. When given a chance to play late last year, he was excellent against guys like Tyreek Hill and Jamar Chase, two of the best receivers in the league.

 

And he's in a competition for the #2 corner position... with Dane Jackson... 

 

A couple days ago Chris Brown mentioned on One Bills Drive he may lose this competition because of... now get this... his ability to set the edge in the run game... 

 

To me, this kind of thing is exactly why this staff can not get over the hump and win it all. This is a passing league. The defense is in a unique position to have two elite corners on either side of the field, which frees up Poyer and Hyde to make plays, allows Taron Johnson to be more aggressive in run support and gives the defensive line that extra second needed to get to the quarterback.

 

But we're worried about run support? From an outside corner? That's why Benford and Jackson are rotating out there? Who by the way, are typically getting torched in coverage. Dane Jackson is said to always be around the ball... okay but a yard behind the receiver while he's making a big play isn't exactly what I'd be looking for as a coach when evaluating a defensive back.

 

And Elam's strengths and weaknesses coming out of Florida were no mystery, this isn't something that should have come as a shock to McDermott. So why pick him there?

 

He is corner 1 talent level and would most likely be in that spot on a lot of other teams in this league. At some point this staff needs to get out of it's own way or they will waste the career of one of the best quarterbacks to ever step on a football field. 

 

 

When do you think they’ll trade him? With this CB room they don’t really have the luxury. They also would not get much value due to moving on from him so quickly. So the thought of trading him now seems very unrealistic. 

 

CB1 talent?  That remains to be seen. He definitely showed some quality traits in college. But he showed some flaws too. He’s a long way from showing that he’s got CB1 level NFL talent.

 

The very obvious play by the Bills is to move forward giving him the opportunity to prove himself. Unsurprisingly that’s what they are doing. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by BarleyNY

[LarryMadman]

Lol, they are not trading Elam

[Orlando Tim]

Elam and Jackson are both going to play a bunch this year unless one of them gets injured. I will worry about Elam being overlooked when the year starts. You use this time to best it into his head that run support is part of his job, and a little bit of a shot to the ego for some guys is a great way to accomplish that goal. As for Teller he was a great run blocker for us and we wanted a pass pro guy, he developed that after he left. 

[John from Riverside]

It is amazing the things that people find to force themselves mad at on a Sunday morning

30 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The Bills could have ended up with both.

This is true
The bills messed up with Teller I remember really liking the player back then and was confused about the trade

[Augie]

16 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

So, do we get Teller back or what???

 

The use of “The Teller Card” is just designed to incite as much angst as possible. He was a 5th round Guard with long hair who looked promising. We were loaded at the position, we thought, so elected to get something for him in return. They made the wrong call. It happens. If he was a 1st round rookie CB they never even consider moving him. I have no idea why Teller is even mentioned here other than to exaggerate a point that does not seem to exist. 

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

This is true
The bills messed up with Teller I remember really liking the player back then and was confused about the trade

 

Yeah, it's odd.  He ended up starting the final 7 games as a rookie and then they punted him to another team. 

[freddyjj]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Yours is an interesting comment and stands to reason.  There have often been disconnects between what this team says it wants to do, with how it drafts or signs free-agents.  Elam may be one of them.  Edmunds was, expect him to perform better in Chicago in a traditional 4-3, not the 2 LB alignment that we play.  

 

Here's there thing there, we played a 3 LB alignment while Lorax was here for three seasons, but then switched to a 2 LB alignment and went the next three seasons like that.  Why?  

 

McD apologists will tell you that it's a planned thing, but that doesn't make sense, because they continued to try 3, but simply didn't have the talent for three starting LBs.  So they went with two.  Which begs questions.  If the 2 LB thing was his innovation, them why not 2 LBs all all along.  Why did they continue to try 3, and presumably had it worked and they had found that third starter, then they wouldn't have gone to 2.  That's demonstrative of reaction, not proaction.  

 

Coincidence that once Lorax retired and all we had was depth level talent to replace him, is when McD changed it?  

 

Too your point, Elam can play zone, but it was clearly not his strength.  

 

They emphasize style and scheme, but seem to draft around it at times in their to picks, which could very well be why we have underachieving high draft picks. 

 

Same with this season generally speaking, the official narrative is "attacking D," but what does that really mean practically.  All D's are attacking to one extent or another.  By definition that's role of a D generally speaking. 

 

It's time for the season, the games begin shortly.  This season will be a revealing one as things currently on the fence appear to be set to fall one way or the other.  McD is a polarizing coach in some ways, and this season is going to be a definitive one in that way as well.  Fans and media are going to become less patient with divisional much less wild-card round playoff losses as well.  

 

It's also camp right now, everything's unicorns and lollipops.  

 

Sit tight, enjoy the season, don't forget to lurk in the gameday threads, laughter is good for the soul.  😁      

 

Several things are going to shake out this season, for better or for worse, ... hopefully for the better.  

 

 

Zo only started 26 of 48 games in his years under McD.  I would say the opposite of your premise, the Bills played 3 LBs in 2017 and 2018 because they had issues at Nickel until Taron Johnson took the job full time in 2019. 
 

Yet one can look at Carolina where McD successfully used Keuchly, TD and Shaq Thompson at LB in a replica of Jim Johnson’s Eagle D.  Maybe he will use more of a 3 LB set this year.  

[Mr. WEO]

OP puts Teller in the title, then never mentions him, or that Elam might be traded.

 

 

pretty sweet threadwork...

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, Bills!Win! said:

I look at it as we traded Teller for Poyer

When BASS kicks the winning FG in the Super Bowl the Teller trade won't look so bad. 

[Don Otreply]

Elam it not getting traded,  he will be starting CB2 by mid season, Jackson is a bit below average to only slightly above average as a CB, and that is his performance range.  When it comes right down to it, CB is a man on man coverage position, and Elam is notably better at that than Jackson is, (three interceptions in his rookie season)  and Sean knows this. 
 

 

 

 

[Punching Bag]

Elam  is a man-to-man corner in a zone defense which is a lot more complicated.  

He never played man-to-man in college.

Tackling / run defense however is part of a CBs job.

 

Hopefully the Bills have some VR program he can use to get him up to speed faster.

It also is possible that the Bills will mix man-to-man with zone defense now Coach McD is defense coordinator; he used that defense for Panthers and with Jim Johnson for Eagles.

[Dan Darragh]

Calm down, Sparky. Maybe what they're doing is trying to help him get better by creating a sense of open competition for the job.

 

All of us have a role in life.  For some people it's coaching an NFL team.  For other people it's making senseless posts like this one a month before the first game based on watching a few team practices.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Dan Darragh

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Bills!Win! said:

I look at it as we traded Teller for Poyer

 

That's a strange way to look at it. 

 

-Poyer was signed in 2017

-Teller was drafted in 2018 and traded before the 2019 season

 

-In team building, the team evaluates position groups against the other members of that position  group.  So, logically, Teller was traded because Bobby Johnson and the FO rated him as lower than the other IOL talent they had in 2019:  Quinton Spain, Jon Feliciano, Mitch Morse, Spencer Long, Ike Boettger and Ryan Bates.  Spain and Feliciano started, along with Morse.  Long was the backup C with proven NFL starts.

 

So fundamentally it came down to the Bills evaluating Ike Boettger and Ryan Bates as better prospects for their OL than Wyatt Teller.    Both were felt to have more positional flexibility and to be a better scheme fit for Bobby Johnson.  Maybe that evaluation was mistaken; mistakes happen.

 

 

[BillsFan2313]

2 hours ago, Bills!Win! said:

I look at it as we traded Teller for Poyer

 

Why? 

2 hours ago, Bills!Win! said:

I look at it as we traded Teller for Poyer

 

Why? 

2 hours ago, Bills!Win! said:

I look at it as we traded Teller for Poyer

 

Why?