RD 1, Pick 25: TE Dalton Kincaid, Utah

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

4 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

I also said "a position that we needed" to improve on.  There are many more pressing positions of need on this team than at TE.

 

Drew Sanders, Arkansas at LB was available and would have been a good match with Milano.  And we just passed him up.

Anton Harrison, Oklahoma would have been a great addition to the OL.

Brian Branch, ALABAMA at Safety. 

 

There was a lot of talent left that we could have gotten and improved as a team.  This pick is not going to make a impact with Dorsey as OC.

We don't even utilize Knox to his full potential.

 

Just bad drafting choices once again.

 

[Thurman#1]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

The nickname I've seen kicking around social media is "Cole Big-sley" and I'm liking it.

 

 

Cover1 had "Swole Beasley."

[PromoTheRobot]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

We stole their guy.

 

That's gratitude after Jerry's company helped the Pegulas with their stadium deal.

[JerseyBills]

Lol. Skip is pisssssed 

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Some of the same people in this thread who knocked Mike Gesicki for being a big WR and not much of a blocker are praising Kincaid for being the same. Funny what a Bills jersey will do for the perception of a player. 

 

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It's a fair point, but Kincaid is already a lot better blocker than Gesicki has ever been or for that matter wanted to be.

 

Gesicki is dreadful. Kincaid is about replacement level as a blocker, and for a guy who's got as little experience at it and is a rookie, that's a lot more acceptable.

 

Yeah, the thing with Gesicki is that if you consider him a WR then he is just an ok WR. He's a good receiver "for a TE". But wont make the full transition to full time WR.

 

Kincaid looks like a true WR that was designated to the TE position. 🤞

[StHustle]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

The nickname I've seen kicking around social media is "Cole Big-sley" and I'm liking it.

Swole Beasley

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Prisco with solid understanding. 
 

 

Neither you, nor Pete have a ***** clue

[PBF81]

50 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

We lost 1 defensive player. We'll get back 2 All pros- Hyde n Miller. We've been a perennial top 5 D under McD. 

 

EVERY TEAM HAS HOLES.

We got an upgrade on the OL in McGovern 

 

But this pick allows Buf to add a whole different dimension to the O. In 12 personnel, if the D stays in base, Knox or Dalton will be against a LB, easy W. If they go nickel,  we have a big advantage in the run gm but still have plenty of pass catching options. 

 

Bottom line we got a playmaker! Who cares if it's a TE, we got another playmaker for 17.. I absolutely ❤️ this pick..

 

Well, we'll see, nothing you or I say will change anything.  But TEs rarely put up impact numbers as rookies and if we regress this season both Beane and McD are going to be on the hotseat.  

 

As to the rest, what happens in the regular season has not been our problem, it's been our playoff performances.  The receivers (and TEs) that we have, have largely come up empty in the playoffs other than against bubble playoff teams, Diggs included if not especially, our moneyman seems to disappear come playoff time.  So I'm not sure how throwing another TE into the mix is going to alter that.  

 

The other thing is that I realize that euphoria is high right now, but we need to look at history as our guide, not simply If's and But's.  If Kincaid posts 500 yards and 4 or 5 TDs that'll be on the high end for rookie TEs in his style.  That's not enough of an impact to keep Beane from suffering a rash of backlash following the season.  

 

Let's see what our late 2nd and 3rd round picks yield, but it's doubtful, particularly given Beane's track record, that we'll be adding impact players this season there, which is what is needed, Beane needed to hit an A+/homerun draft in terms of laying down some impact play from our rookies this season, and so far that's not the case.  

 

There was a lot more hope that players like Watkins, Spiller, Zay Jones, and even Cook would provide that kind of impact.  

 

Again, we will see, but now is the time for talk, and hope, whether rooted in reality or not, I get it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Neither you, nor Pete have a ***** clue

Kincaid’s ceiling is Gesicki, and Mayers ceiling is Gronkowski. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Watches a bunch of highlights for this guy because I knew nothing about him. I REALLY like what I see 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

Kincaid’s ceiling is Gesicki, and Mayers ceiling is Gronkowski. 

🧐

[Jauronimo]

10 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Disagree. I want small guys who drop the ball and tweet a lot. 

Does anyone know if Kincaid is vaccinated?

 

[Don Otreply]

10 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Nothing against Kincaid but my first thought was, we traded up to get Knox's backup???

 

But I'm warming up to it.  Somewhat.  Like others, I wonder if Dorsey will know how to use him.  It's a different position but it bugs me that Dorsey didn't know how to integrate Hines into the offense last season.  Not sure how creative Dorsey is.  

Part of the Knox usage was that the O-line was a mess last season and they needed him to block, But i do see what you are saying about Dorsey being creative in his play calling, I’m with Shaw66 on this in that Dorsey should be better with a season under his belt 🤞

[Nuncha]

1 hour ago, Nuncha said:

Our Tommy Sweeny replacement taken in the first round? LOL  (its a joke people....seriously?)

 

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Kincaid’s ceiling is Gesicki, and Mayers ceiling is Gronkowski. 

 

Kincaid's ceiling is Kelce. Mayers ceiling is Lee Smith.

 

See, anyone can just pull bad comparisons out their ass.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

Part of the Knox usage was that the O-line was a mess last season and they needed him to block, But i do see what you are saying about Dorsey being creative in his play calling, I’m with Shaw66 on this in that Dorsey should be better with a season under his belt 🤞

It’s also important players like Dalton Kincaid make it a lot easier for office of coordinators to be creative super versatile player

 

He actually hasn’t been playing football for that long either even with the age that he’s at because he was a basketball player there’s room for improvement

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, faderphreak said:

 

This was one of my first thoughts when the pick came in last night.  Everyone else was going for the smaller slot guys that seem to make up the bulk of the top rated receivers this year.  The Bills instead went for a 6'4, 240 lb. slot receiver.  After that debacle against Cincy where the Bills were getting bullied at times, they needed to get bigger and stronger.  

 

So instead of getting banged around and shut down, as has often been the case with our own smallish slot receivers have when the refs decide to swallow their whistles, DK2 will hopefully be much harder to take out of the game and unlike Lil Dirty, be consistent with those catches. 

 

To NoSaint's point there is a long history of traditional TEs taking a hot minute to get up to speed in traditional TE roles.  I agree that premise that Kincaid was basically brought in for his hands, his ability to run a full route tree, and basically be WR #3.  I've read how he will need work as a blocker but I'm ok with that when I consider that just in size alone he will be harder for many of these LBs to get around than Mckenzie, Bease, etc.  

 

bingo- 

 

he may not be the super physical mauler but he’s certainly a more capable blocker than beas or lil dirty, and he can build that part of his game up while still contributing 

[Clockwork]

When you first started at your job, were you instantly great at all aspects of the job?  Or did you learn, adapt, and get better based off your experiences?  Same with Dorsey, he will learn, adapt and get better at utilizing this new tool in his took kit.  That's my opinion anyway

[Bangarang]

25 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

I also said "a position that we needed" to improve on.  There are many more pressing positions of need on this team than at TE.

 

Drew Sanders, Arkansas at LB was available and would have been a good match with Milano.  And we just passed him up.

Anton Harrison, Oklahoma would have been a great addition to the OL.

Brian Branch, ALABAMA at Safety. 

 

There was a lot of talent left that we could have gotten and improved as a team.  This pick is not going to make a impact with Dorsey as OC.

We don't even utilize Knox to his full potential.

 

Just bad drafting choices once again.

 

We needed to improve at receiver. If he’s the highest rated player on BB’s board then reaching for someone else, especially a LB, is silly. 
 

The great thing about the draft is that it’s not over after the 1st round. We could still easily add a LB or OL in the next 2 rounds. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I agree with a previous poster that Quinton Morris is a fine -if wildly underused- TE, so the roster is now set at that position. Barring significant injury, no other player need apply. I also think we’re better at WR than most believe. Therefore, commit the rest of the Draft to OL & DL. If a Wideout they really like becomes available, fine. But we can never have enough solid OL and our DT’s are all 1 year guys. I no longer see a path to trading for DHop, so we roll with who we have and look to improve our lines.

 

 

You know, Chand, my real world buddy, Bagel as he used to be known around here (a longtime member here who just hasn't posted in forever), kind of agrees with you. 

 

He is hoping for some better play and a turnaround by Gabe into, at the very least, a true #2 and he thinks very highly of Shakir's future.

 

I know, I know...it goes against TSW standing policy to disagree with somebody  and NOT be mean about it, insulting, or even then to give credit to something we may disagree upon.

 

However, darn it, I am doing it right here and now!  I want more help at receiver, but I get and respect your point.

 

BTW, if this were a @nucci post and if he was commenting similarly  as I have the entire post would be...

 

"I disagree, but maybe.  We'll see." 

 

Word salads can be a such waste of time.  Direct and to the point is always cherished.  Long live ya, Nuch!

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by dollars 2 donuts

[John from Riverside]

5 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

bingo- 

 

he may not be the super physical mauler but he’s certainly a more capable blocker than beas or lil dirty, and he can build that part of his game up while still contributing 

I mean, it’s all relative right whenever people talk about him not being a very good blocker they mean a very good blocker for a tight end. This guy will still totally maul a defensive back

[Coffeesforclosers]

22 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

The nickname I've seen kicking around social media is "Cole Big-sley" and I'm liking it.

 

Swole Beasely is going around too. 

[stlbills13]

2 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

When you first started at your job, were you instantly great at all aspects of the job?  Or did you learn, adapt, and get better based off your experiences?  Same with Dorsey, he will learn, adapt and get better at utilizing this new tool in his took kit.  That's my opinion anyway

 

I'm not totally sold in Dorsey but there were a few things working against him last year in my opinion.

 

- Poor offensive line play. This is still somewhat of a concern but I do like the guys that we brought in this offseason. No superstar but we did upgrade here. This is a problem for any coordinator but I think it's especially a problem for a OC trying to break in new concepts into an offense

- Gabe Davis health. This isn't really an excuse for his drops but he just never seemed fully healthy. Obviously that's a concern by itself but I think a healthier Davis allows him to run more routes

- Lack of a safety valve for JA. I think this is where Kincaid most helps. Rookie TE's struggle but if he can even play 8-10 snaps a game in the slot, he can give us a nice middle of the field option and hopefully he can pick up the NFL TE job quickly and be a factor there too.

- I'm a big fan of 2 TE sets. I just think it makes the defense actually have to think about what's coming. I do think we got too predictable last year. We still had a good offense despite that so just becoming a little more unpredictable would be a big help

- I also think Dorsey and the coaching staff weren't fully committed to running Dorsey's system. To me I saw almost saw like an 70% commitment to what Dorsey wanted to do and the rest hanging on to Daboll's stuff. Obviously there are going to be similarities between the two but if you aren't fully committed to something new, you are going to see struggles. Dorsey may not be the right answer but if you aren't fully committed to it, you aren't going to see true results.

 

Winning a Super Bowl still comes down to Josh. So giving him more weapons is never a bad thing. 

[Big Blitz]

46 minutes ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

I would’ve preferred Anton Harrison (a full time player) and the 4th rd pick, but I’m glad it’s a pass catcher and not DT. 
 

I hope they were trying to trade up for one of the WRs 

 

 

If Jacksonville thought that’s who we wanted - they don’t trade.  Jacksonville took Harrison at 27 so safe to assume that was their guy and Dallas takes Kincaid.  
 

What would we have done in that scenario?

[CapeBreton]

Just looking at by betting app and the odds of the Bills taking a TE with their first pick was paying 35-1(!!!). Nobody saw this coming!

 

I totally expected them to wait on TE, similar to when they picked Knox in a solid TE class. There are lots of other solid TEs in this draft but the Bills went for the best.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

The more I look at the pick the happier I am with it. While I don't think Kincaid is going to be an every snap player, I think that there are some really great ways he can be used and his presence should be a big relief for Diggs and Davis. While not a great blocker, he is at least a willing blocker. If he can chip on blocks while helping Spencer Brown (or his replacement) that can also help the screen game we never seem to get going. How do defenses respond to him being on the field? Do you stay heavy? If so, he can beat most LB on slant routes. Are you putting a Nickel CB on him? He is going to outmuscle both. Are you going to put a safety or starting CB on him? Great, now Gabe Davis is one on one. 

 

Never mind what you can do in the run game or bootlegs by working in a base set or putting one in motion and overloading one side.

 

Dorsey has been handed a very interesting new toy. If he can't do anything with Kincaid it's time to move on. 

[snamsnoops]

So, when both TE's are in together can we refer to it as "the double D"

[Orlando Tim]

22 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I mean, it’s all relative right whenever people talk about him not being a very good blocker they mean a very good blocker for a tight end. This guy will still totally maul a defensive back

I was coming here to say that, Robert Woods is not a good blocker for a TE but is well known for doing an incredible job on DBs. Give Kincaid some coaching and likely he will be good enough to stop a LB on his own, and he is a great receiver, so I don't get the complaint.

[MrEpsYtown]

 

I'm like always wrong but I did say this on February 28...

 

"Tight end could be a possibility early in the draft. Bringing in a tight end would also potentially upgrade the offense and Beane mentioned the idea that playing two tight ends could keep teams in their base defense."

 

I think the truth winds up being what they say during combine time before true lying season begins. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

8 minutes ago, snamsnoops said:

So, when both TE's are in together can we refer to it as "the double D"

“D’s what?”

 

- a joke that Josh Allen has 100% made already

[Charles Romes]

The mindset of defensive coordinators against the Bills has been to try and take away Diggs and wait for one of the secondary weapons to mess up.  Looking at the tape, waiting for Kincaid to mess up will not be viable. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Double down and take Darnell Washington haha 

KC used their TE's a lot.  Even their 3rd and 4th TE's 

[HeHateMe]

This guy is going to farm the middle of the field for us..  It is what this offense was missing with no Beasley/Crowder, then old Beasley..

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

With that logic though we should just blindly follow Beane?

 

Basham over creed? Star contract? Trent Murphy? Epenesa? Ed Oliver over Simmonds/Wilkins?

Allen, Edmunds, Teller, Bass, Gabe, Dane, Harrison Phillips, Beasley, Morse, Von. Like every other GM in the league, there are hits and misses in the draft and Free Agency. My favorite example is how KC gets so much props for the Isaiah Pacheco pick. He was a 7th round pick who was a pleasant surprise, but people here either forget or over look the fact that he replaced a 1st round bust at RB by KC. Again, hits and misses for every GM, even the SB winner. Blindly follow? I'm not sure what you mean by this. He's the GM, not you. You don't have to follow or agree with him. Pretty sure he doesn't care. He's put together one of the most talented and deeper teams in the NFL, without the benefit of hindsight. I'm with John From Riverside. Beane knows what he's doing and he's one of the better GM's in the league.

 

[Orlando Tim]

The 5 receiver set of Diggs and Davis outside and then Shakir- who I am still high on- in the slot, and then Josh can move Knox and Kincaid around wherever he wants, would make things very flexible. 

[Augie]

43 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I mean, it’s all relative right whenever people talk about him not being a very good blocker they mean a very good blocker for a tight end. This guy will still totally maul a defensive back

 

I like that NFL.COM has his NFL comparison as Zach Ertz, and Daniel Jeremiah (who I trust more than most talking heads) has him as his #11 prospect in the draft. He describes him as a “more explosive Zach Ertz” coming out of college. I think they’ve been paying attention to our grousing and ramblings!!!  The Zach Ertz thread is finally paying off!!! 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

44 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I mean, it’s all relative right whenever people talk about him not being a very good blocker they mean a very good blocker for a tight end. This guy will still totally maul a defensive back

 

Or you can use him in motion as a pin blocker - you don't really need to sustain that (in fact in many cases like TE screens and Play action, you don't want to sustain that block).  

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Kincaid’s ceiling is Gesicki, and Mayers ceiling is Gronkowski. 

Like I told you the entire first round didn’t feel like you do 

[Beast]

Heard on GR this morning that the last TE drafted in the 1st round to make an impact for the team drafting him was Marcedes Lewis in 2006.

[Orlando Tim]

2 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Allen, Edmunds, Teller, Bass, Gabe, Dane, Harrison Phillips, Beasley, Morse, Von. Like every other GM in the league, there are hits and misses in the draft and Free Agency. My favorite example is how KC gets so much props for the Isaiah Pacheco pick. He was a 7th round pick who was a pleasant surprise, but people here either forget or over look the fact that he replaced a 1st round bust at RB by KC. Again, hits and misses for every GM, even the SB winner. Blindly follow? I'm not sure what you mean by this. He's the GM, not you. You don't have to follow or agree with him. Pretty sure he doesn't care. He's put together one of the most talented and deeper teams in the NFL, without the benefit of hindsight. I'm with John From Riverside. Beane knows what he's doing and he's one of the better GM's in the league.

 

I missed the earlier part of this thread but do people actually think Beane is a bad GM? You can argue he is not the best but to argue he is not easily top 10 is absurd.