Dopey Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 21 minutes ago, pigpen65 said: The majority of Dorsey's offense devolves into pulling the fire alarm and having Allen running around in circles dodging defenders while the recievers run around in circles trying to get open. So they get a guy who's good at finding open spots and getting open. I don't know, seems like a good fit to me. Again though, with Dorsey's no plan offense they still can't be done adding receivers. More more more We were only the 2nd highest scoring team in the NFL last year, but yeah, he don’t know 💩. Brilliant post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 14 minutes ago, Donuts and Doritos said: 2DK Bills! (Dawson Knox, Dalton Kincaid) This is the guy I wanted. Best hands in the draft. Need to use the 2DKs like NE used Gronk/Hernandez. I like ‘DoubleD’s’ better. Always! 😉 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 7 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Love the big hands Vids? lol wondering same. i snort their sadness up like Tony Montana any chance i can get lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlbills13 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 How do we feel if he had a season on par with Beasleys best season 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just now, NeverOutNick said: He’s even got bigger upside than both of those guys coming out. He really is one of the few guys in this draft that pop when you watch them on tape. I don’t even care that he can’t block well because he’s going to pluck those Allen passes with ease as he creates his own holes ala Kelce-esqe, with his smooth route running and after the catch he’s got a little Kittle in him. After Flowers he is the most special pass catcher in this draft. Now we have to hope that Dorsey elevates his game this year and makes the best use of all his toys for Josh to play with I agree, he does. I was just meaning in terms of style - both Henry and Gesicki are big slots rather than conventional tight ends - but he is more the Henry mould in terms of playstyle and athletic profile than the Gesicki mould. He is a smoother mover and a naunce player who will separate. Gesicki doesn't really do separation he is a power forward who just goes up and gets the ball. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 41 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Yes, I think you missed the point I think where you might be going down. The wrong path is thinking that Dalton Kincaid is going to be used in the same way as Dawson Knox He won’t What you saw a lot of last year was them keeping Dawson Knox in to block because the office of line wasn’t very good You won’t see that from Dalton Kincaid he is not going to be asked to stay in and block. He is going to be used as a wide receiver. And I think the reason why you don’t see Josh Allen throwing a lot of balls to tight ends is because Josh Allen likes separators guys that can get open. This is a guy that can get open in the slot. Knox wasn’t blocking anymore than usual last year though. Joe Marino cleared that myth up as he had a stat that said he actually ran the same amount of routes, if not even slightly more than previous years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, stlbills13 said: How do we feel if he had a season on par with Beasleys best season That would mean Dorsey knows what he’s doing. You don’t seem to believe that, so do you really expect that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, Dopey said: We were only the 2nd highest scoring team in the NFL last year, but yeah, he don’t know 💩. Brilliant post. To be fair, the 2nd half of the season seemed to be a "low scoring" team even though they scored more in the 2nd half of the season. It is the perception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I agree, he does. I was just meaning in terms of style - both Henry and Gesicki are big slots rather than conventional tight ends - but he is more the Henry mould in terms of playstyle and athletic profile than the Gesicki mould. He is a smoother mover and a naunce player who will separate. Gesicki doesn't really do separation he is a power forward who just goes up and gets the ball. If I understand this correctly, one of the reasons why our new guy is getting such a late start to football is because he was actually doing basketball I love these two sport players, they more often than not seem to do well in the NFL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faderphreak Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 8 hours ago, NoSaint said: counter - he’s an oversized slot instead of undersized slot Tight ends struggle to pick up the entirety of the pass game and blocking without live reps in practice but he can be WR3 day 1 and Knox as a traditional TE spot This was one of my first thoughts when the pick came in last night. Everyone else was going for the smaller slot guys that seem to make up the bulk of the top rated receivers this year. The Bills instead went for a 6'4, 240 lb. slot receiver. After that debacle against Cincy where the Bills were getting bullied at times, they needed to get bigger and stronger. So instead of getting banged around and shut down, as has often been the case with our own smallish slot receivers have when the refs decide to swallow their whistles, DK2 will hopefully be much harder to take out of the game and unlike Lil Dirty, be consistent with those catches. To NoSaint's point there is a long history of traditional TEs taking a hot minute to get up to speed in traditional TE roles. I agree that premise that Kincaid was basically brought in for his hands, his ability to run a full route tree, and basically be WR #3. I've read how he will need work as a blocker but I'm ok with that when I consider that just in size alone he will be harder for many of these LBs to get around than Mckenzie, Bease, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 hour ago, John from Riverside said: There’s really not an emoticon to select to express how I feel about your post We have two primary problems with our offense, Dorsey & the OL. This solved neither. In fact, the former will likely hinder him. Hopefully I'm wrong. Time will tell. Also, a 24 year old tearing up a few horrific defenses, and the PAC-12 is not known for its defensive protests to begin with, is hardly impressive. He was a man among boys and only had that one great season. Gotta keep the big picture in mind. Harrison would have been a more suitable pick, but Beane can't seem to help himself in avoiding the sexy picks whole continuing to ignore why KC & Cinci are better than we are. We shall see. But out of curiosity, how many yards & TDs do you envision him getting this year? Because of these picks don't make an impact this season, ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said: Knox wasn’t blocking anymore than usual last year though. Joe Marino cleared that myth up as he had a stat that said he actually ran the same amount of routes, if not even slightly more than previous years. I will look for that my point still stands that the two players are going to be used differently Even if say, Dawson Knox was to miss games. I’ll bet you anything that they play somebody else in that blocking rule other than Dalton. Which is OK with me some of the most productive players at that position don’t block Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 8 hours ago, RiotAct said: it’s the weather. He's pissed that we're not getting a roof too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, PBF81 said: We have two primary problems with our offense, Dorsey & the OL. This solved neither. In fact, the former will likely hinder him. Hopefully I'm wrong. Time will tell. Also, a 24 year old tearing up a few horrific defenses, and the PAC-12 is not known for its defensive protests to begin with, is hardly impressive. He was a man among boys and only had that one great season. Gotta keep the big picture in mind. Harrison would have been a more suitable pick, but Beane can't seem to help himself in avoiding the sexy picks whole continuing to ignore why KC & Cinci are better than we are. We shall see. But out of curiosity, how many yards & TDs do you envision him getting this year? Because of these picks don't make an impact this season, ... A couple of things here You need to understand, defensive coverages if you force the defense to have to play nickel even with Dalton on the field he is being covered by a Corner which he can outmuscle if they try to cover him with a linebacker he’ll just run away either way that mismatch affects mine blocking because if you can give somebody a quick target, you don’t have to block as long Second, it was only our first pick of the draft we’re not done yet 2 minutes ago, PBF81 said: He's pissed that we're not getting a roof too. Roofs are for wimps Edited April 28, 2023 by John from Riverside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just now, John from Riverside said: I will look for that my point still stands that the two players are going to be used differently Even if say, Dawson Knox was to miss games. I’ll bet you anything that they play somebody else in that blocking rule other than Dalton. Which is OK with me some of the most productive players at that position don’t block I definitely agree with you Kincaid isn’t going to block a lot. My point was Knox ran a lot of routes and we underused our 14 mil tight end. What makes you think we can utilize both tight ends effectively that matches the salary/investment we put into the position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just now, BillsFan130 said: I definitely agree with you Kincaid isn’t going to block a lot. My point was Knox ran a lot of routes and we underused our 14 mil tight end. What makes you think we can utilize both tight ends effectively that matches the salary/investment we put into the position? Is that $14 million coming out of your pocket it feels like it is Did you ever stop to think that maybe the general manager is also thinking about that $14 million and how if Dawson doesn’t pick it up he might be looking for a way out of that contract This would not insert Dalton into Knox role. If Knox was ever let go due to lack of production they would bring in a blocking tide in for that rule. This is specifically to give Josh Allen another weapon in the slot. You have to understand what they’re trying to do here you are basically getting the best tight end in this draft on a five year cost control contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 minute ago, ganesh said: To be fair, the 2nd half of the season seemed to be a "low scoring" team even though they scored more in the 2nd half of the season. It is the perception. Last 8 games of the season: 30 points vs Minny 31 vs Cleveland 28 vs Lions 24 vs Pats 20 vs Jets 32 vs phins 35 vs Bears 35 vs pats 34 vs phins in the playoffs 10 vs Cincy Unless the perception is based off of the Cincy game, I don’t get it. That’s pretty dumb IMO. Really dumb, actually. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: Is that $14 million coming out of your pocket it feels like it is Did you ever stop to think that maybe the general manager is also thinking about that $14 million and how if Dawson doesn’t pick it up he might be looking for a way out of that contract This would not insert Dalton into Knox role. If Knox was ever let go due to lack of production they would bring in a blocking tide in for that rule. This is specifically to give Josh Allen another weapon in the slot. You have to understand what they’re trying to do here you are basically getting the best tight end in this draft on a five year cost control contract. I would assume you know how the salary cap works . It’s resources tied/used into the position that could be used elsewhere to help better the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just now, BillsFan130 said: I would assume you know how the salary cap works . It’s resources tied/used into the position that could be used elsewhere to help better the team If beane isn’t concerned about it, then neither should you be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: Is that $14 million coming out of your pocket it feels like it is Did you ever stop to think that maybe the general manager is also thinking about that $14 million and how if Dawson doesn’t pick it up he might be looking for a way out of that contract This would not insert Dalton into Knox role. If Knox was ever let go due to lack of production they would bring in a blocking tide in for that rule. This is specifically to give Josh Allen another weapon in the slot. You have to understand what they’re trying to do here you are basically getting the best tight end in this draft on a five year cost control contract. Beane seemed pretty noncommittal last night when asked about Knox going forward. I think the words used were "Yea, I don't think he's going anywhere". Wasn't really firm in the answer, though. Not saying at all they plan to deal/cut him...but I do think this is a make or break season for Knox. Over the Cap shows Knox at a $14M cap hit next season and a $10M savings against the cap as a post June 1st cut. So IMO not outside the possibility of he doesn't show well they cut bait on him next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said: Beane seemed pretty noncommittal last night when asked about Knox going forward. I think the words used were "Yea, I don't think he's going anywhere". Wasn't really firm in the answer, though. Not saying at all they plan to deal/cut him...but I do think this is a make or break season for Knox. Over the Cap shows Knox at a $14M cap hit next season and a $10M savings against the cap as a post June 1st cut. So IMO not outside the possibility of he doesn't show well they cut bait on him next year. It’s absolutely possible personally I hope he kills it and We just rework his deal. But for that much money, you need more production It’s up to our offensive coordinator to make all this work 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just now, BuffaloBillyG said: Beane seemed pretty noncommittal last night when asked about Knox going forward. I think the words used were "Yea, I don't think he's going anywhere". Wasn't really firm in the answer, though. Not saying at all they plan to deal/cut him...but I do think this is a make or break season for Knox. Over the Cap shows Knox at a $14M cap hit next season and a $10M savings against the cap as a post June 1st cut. So IMO not outside the possibility of he doesn't show well they cut bait on him next year. The versatility adding Kincaid gives you is dependent on a player of Knox's ability manning the conventional TE role. It would be just plain damn foolishness to trade him. I think he's been underutilized. He's money in the RZ and often open. Up to Dorsey and Allen to target him. He can't throw the ball to himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just now, John from Riverside said: It’s absolutely possible personally I hope he kills it and We just rework his deal. But for that much money, you need more production It’s up to our offensive coordinator to make all this work Absolutely agree with you. The guy plays hard and fits in well. I do think they factor his blocking ability into his "production" as well. He's definitely the type of guy you want to root for. Hope he is put in position to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDubya76 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 8 hours ago, WotAGuy said: Umm….his name is “Dalton”. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said: I agree with a previous poster that Quinton Morris is a fine -if wildly underused- TE, so the roster is now set at that position. Barring significant injury, no other player need apply. I also think we’re better at WR than most believe. Therefore, commit the rest of the Draft to OL & DL. If a Wideout they really like becomes available, fine. But we can never have enough solid OL and our DT’s are all 1 year guys. I no longer see a path to trading for DHop, so we roll with who we have and look to improve our lines. 100% agree. No one left is going to be an immediate upgrade at LB. Backfield isn't a problem yet. Running back is fine. Diggs, Davis and Shakir are a functional trio. Kincaid and Knox at different parts will let us disguise 11 personnel plays as 12 and 02 as 01. At this point, the biggest hole we have a chance to fill is bolstering the O-line or prepare for pending vacancies on the D-line. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 11 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: If beane isn’t concerned about it, then neither should you be With that logic though we should just blindly follow Beane? Basham over creed? Star contract? Trent Murphy? Epenesa? Ed Oliver over Simmonds/Wilkins? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlbills13 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 24 minutes ago, Dopey said: That would mean Dorsey knows what he’s doing. You don’t seem to believe that, so do you really expect that? I am a believer in Dorsey. I just think he's different from Daboll and last year he did half his thing and half Daboll's thing and it looked disjointed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: A couple of things here You need to understand, defensive coverages if you force the defense to have to play nickel even with Dalton on the field he is being covered by a Corner which he can outmuscle if they try to cover him with a linebacker he’ll just run away either way that mismatch affects mine blocking because if you can give somebody a quick target, you don’t have to block as long Second, it was only our first pick of the draft we’re not done yet Roofs are for wimps The roof thing was a joke. No argument with what you said, my issue is with our priorities. Our OL still needs help and Dorsey's still Dorsey. Everything everyone is saying assumes two things, that Dorsey will use him properly, or at all, and that he'll make the kind of impact that we need in the playoffs. I'm not seeing either. We haven't been choking in the playoffs for a lack of WRs, in fact, or money man Diggs has been horrible in the playoffs considering generally speaking. We've been choking because our D sucks in them and our OL gets manhandled. Right now we only know one starting LB for sure. Our D doesn't appear to have improved, it appears to have regressed. I don't mind the pick per se, I simply don't think that is going to provide the boost that we're looking for our to keep the heat off of Beane & McD. Our primary weaknesses still exist. After that, if that men v. boys status, the incredibly soft competition, and one-year wonder status are overcome, them we shall see. I'm still not seeing more than 500 or so yards & 4 or 5 TDs coming from him. I'm not sure that's what everyone's envisioning and it's not the kind of impact we need right now. These statements of he's just like Kelce also concern me, for several reasons. What do you think he'll put up this year? Again, time will tell. Nothing that you or I say will change a thing. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 13 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: I think he's been underutilized. He's money in the RZ and often open. Up to Dorsey and Allen to target him. He can't throw the ball to himself. He's been underutilized because he's had to help the incompetent Spencer Brown do his job. If Brown improves (as Beane expects) or if we find a decent right tackle, Knox can go back to catching balls. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWK Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 21 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: If beane isn’t concerned about it, then neither should you be Have you seen Beane's draft history besides Josh Allen and Edmunds? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncha Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) Our Tommy Sweeny replacement taken in the first round? LOL Edited April 28, 2023 by Nuncha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 I'm sure it has been mentioned but I love the strategy. Beane saying teams will need to stay in nickel while we are in 12 personnel which will do wonders for the run game but still gives us the ability to throw. And this makes me happy... 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 17 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: 100% agree. No one left is going to be an immediate upgrade at LB. Backfield isn't a problem yet. Running back is fine. Diggs, Davis and Shakir are a functional trio. Kincaid and Knox at different parts will let us disguise 11 personnel plays as 12 and 02 as 01. At this point, the biggest hole we have a chance to fill is bolstering the O-line or prepare for pending vacancies on the D-line. I think it is the DL. they have brought in a starter on the OL in FA and will probably add at least another one in the draft. There are also some good DEs available post draft that they can get without counting against the cap. The biggest hole at this time is DT. They have to find a starter in this draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Allen and Kincaid in the same offense is almost unfair. Two of the best athletes at their positions. Allen has talked about continuing his maturation from football player to quarterback and Kincaid is the perfect facilitator of that transition - you’re talking about a future 1a or 1b receiving option for the offense, dictating the defensive looks while keeping the defense guessing. Plus, personality-wise, as I keep saying the joke in the locker room is that Josh has the personality of a tight end. They need to keep building on that to give the offense an identity. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 16 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: With that logic though we should just blindly follow Beane? Basham over creed? Star contract? Trent Murphy? Epenesa? Ed Oliver over Simmonds/Wilkins? What are your other real options, considering crying on a message board or calling into WGR doesnt actually do anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, PBF81 said: The roof thing was a joke. No argument with what you said, my issue is with our priorities. Our OL still needs help and Dorsey's still Dorsey. Everything everyone is saying assumes two things, that Dorsey will use him properly, or at all, and that he'll make the kind of impact that we need in the playoffs. I'm not seeing either. We haven't been choking in the playoffs for a lack of WRs, in fact, or money man Diggs has been horrible in the playoffs considering generally speaking. We've been choking because our D sucks in them and our OL gets manhandled. Right now we only know one starting LB for sure. Our D doesn't appear to have improved, it appears to have regressed. I don't mind the pick per se, I simply don't think that is going to provide the boost that we're looking for our to keep the heat off of Beane & McD. Our primary weaknesses still exist. After that, if that men v. boys status, the incredibly soft competition, and one-year wonder status are overcome, them we shall see. I'm still not seeing more than 500 or so yards & 4 or 5 TDs coming from him. I'm not sure that's what everyone's envisioning and it's not the kind of impact we need right now. These statements of he's just like Kelce also concern me, for several reasons. What do you think he'll put up this year? Again, time will tell. Nothing that you or I say will change a thing. 🙂 We lost 1 defensive player. We'll get back 2 All pros- Hyde n Miller. We've been a perennial top 5 D under McD. EVERY TEAM HAS HOLES. We got an upgrade on the OL in McGovern But this pick allows Buf to add a whole different dimension to the O. In 12 personnel, if the D stays in base, Knox or Dalton will be against a LB, easy W. If they go nickel, we have a big advantage in the run gm but still have plenty of pass catching options. Bottom line we got a playmaker! Who cares if it's a TE, we got another playmaker for 17.. I absolutely ❤️ this pick.. Edited April 28, 2023 by JerseyBills 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Everyone, and I mean everyone, went into this draft saying Josh needed more playmakers to keep pace with the Chiefs, Bengals, etc. So they draft one and what do we now hear? Negativity. This place is hysterical sometimes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 5 hours ago, Nextmanup said: Don't you think it's likely they will be going in a different direction with this guy? Don't you think it was obvious the offense had issues last year and we never developed a coherent "game" all year long? That's all totally on the OC by the way. For God's sake, we brought back 2 corpses and had them running routes last year out of total desperation. They are wisely realizing that things need fixing and this guy represents part of the fix. At least that's the plan. We'll see what he can do on an NFL field. Josh needs a bunch more weapons; this guy should be one of them. The Bills have 2 pass catching RBs in Hines and Cook that Dorsey failed to do anything with. I have no faith in Ken Dorsey's creativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 11 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: I'm sure it has been mentioned but I love the strategy. Beane saying teams will need to stay in nickel while we are in 12 personnel which will do wonders for the run game but still gives us the ability to throw. And this makes me happy... I was going to post this and you beat me to it. I absolutely love this! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, OZBILLS said: Dorsey and McClappy handling their newfound toy... I disagree with the sentiment of your post, but the gif may have swayed me.... Edited April 28, 2023 by Tenhigh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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