RD 1, Pick 25: TE Dalton Kincaid, Utah

[Simon Says]

7 hours ago, OZBILLS said:

A TE that won't get any targets....

 

 

 

Why do you say that? Think of him as taking the slot position

[John from Riverside]

I think saying, the quiet part out loud here would also help
 

Whenever we brought in that tight end in free agency last year, we really thought we were going to a two te system

 

Then he ended up getting cut

 

That Hass to make some fans a little leery of the fact that we’re probably going to try to make that too tight in system work again

 

But you have to have the horse is nowhere to be able to run it we’re not going to use Kincaid the same way they are really going to use him as a wide receiver and not a blocker

 

What I envision is a safety valve in the middle of the field that knows how to get open and can run after the catch basically Beasley on steroids

 

Let’s not forget Beasley was a wonderful player but the thing that made him special for us was his ability to get open to be that reliable guy that would get you that first down and keep the chains moving

 

Kincaid can totally fill that role. We’re still gonna see Josh Allen taking shots down the field. Diggs is going to end up getting his and Gabe Davis is in a contract year.

[KDIGGZ]

2 TE sets are for teams that like to do play-action dink and dunks down the field. I know Dorsey wants to do it (because that's what he ran in college and that's what he knows) but we have a QB that likes to scramble and throw it 50 yards down field. It's going to take a retraining of the way Josh plays to be effective in that style of offense and it takes the threat of the run (Damien Harris) to get LB's to sink in. Not that it can't work but those things are not a strength of this team in the past few years so the offense is going to have to change a lot unless they are thinking they are going to be able to split Kincaid out which doesn't seem likely since he's a 4.7 guy and not a 4.5 or better. What makes him effective would be playing him on the line vs heavy fronts and then him sneaking behind the LB aka goal line situations

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Don't you think it's likely they will be going in a different direction with this guy?  Don't you think it was obvious the offense had issues last year and we never developed a coherent "game" all year long? That's all totally on the OC by the way.  For God's sake, we brought back 2 corpses and had them running routes last year out of total desperation.

 

They are wisely realizing that things need fixing and this guy represents part of the fix.  At least that's the plan.  We'll see what he can do on an NFL field.  Josh needs a bunch more weapons; this guy should be one of them.

 

 

Yeah, you don’t take a guy like this in the first round unless there’s a specific idea of how you’re going to use them otherwise, you might as well just take a blocking tight end at the end of the draft and not your waist the resource
 

Kansas City deploy us to tide in sets Buffalo is copying it. It’s pretty obvious Dalton is our Kelce

[stlbills13]

I love the pick. They will show more two TE sets and Kincaid will split out wide. I love Knox and you did pay him pretty good money but Kincaid is a stud. Also the more safety valve options you give to Josh, the better. 

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, jlgarsh said:

Who’s better, him or Mayer? Just curious

I think that they’re actually different types of te

 

Either one would’ve actually been good, but I think Mayer is more like Knox

 

I’m just glad that they did not draft a tiny wide receiver that we would’ve been stuck with for five years

 

We got a legitimate target for our quarterback on a five-year cost control contract

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Dalton/Dawson. Sounds like a Country Music duo..

YEEHAW!

Just as long as Dorsey's play calling doesn't convert them into 'Lloyd and Harry'...🤨

Edited April 28, 2023 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, PBF81 said:

LMAO @  trading up for this.  

 

Honestly, it's as if Beane wants out of Buffalo.  

 

SMH  

There’s really not an emoticon to select to express how I feel about your post

[dollars 2 donuts]

 

 

Sorry if already (and likely) already posted.  Worth seeing again, though.  From a few weeks ago.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by dollars 2 donuts

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, Governor said:

It takes years for TEs to develop and contribute in a meaningful way.

This is really not true
We have seen plenty of titans come into the league and be productive early

He’s not going to be asked to be the guy here immediately. He’s another weapon in the toolbox.

 

Diggs is gonna end up wanting his touches

 

Davis is on approve it here for a contract

 

If he can feel the Beasley role he makes perfect sense

 

He could, however, end up developing into the guy

[Solomon Grundy]

6 minutes ago, stlbills13 said:

I love the pick. They will show more two TE sets and Kincaid will split out wide. I love Knox and you did pay him pretty good money but Kincaid is a stud. Also the more safety valve options you give to Josh, the better. 

Didn't like the money they gave Knox. 

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, Wizard said:

Should have traded down if that was a possibility. I hope Kincaid can block.

Why he’s not gonna be brought in here to block

 

I’m sure he can give you as much as a wide receiver down the field, but he’s brought in here to catch passes not block

7 hours ago, OZBILLS said:

 

Dorsey and McClappy handling their newfound toy...

 

I mean you’re full of *****, but I found this funny

3 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Didn't like the money they gave Knox. 

I think they’re expecting more out of Knox. There is something else to consider here.
 

I think they are hoping for more production out of Dawson this next year, but this could also be a look to the future. If Knox does not pick up his production, they might be looking to get out of that contract, and they have already drafted a replacement.

 

Blocking tight ends can be found easily in the later rounds. The bills are looking for playmakers.

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, Johnnycage46 said:

He has a pretty cool name.  Very late 80s early 90s action movie villain name.

Patrick Swayze rest in peace

7 hours ago, Since1981 said:

Beane panic WR.. Went and got the first TE. 

good pick. Offense, best receiving player available. 

What is the speed the definition of not panicking?
 

He could’ve traded up the wide receivers were coming off the board, but he wouldn’t have to give up more capital than he actually gave

 

so instead, he chilled

 

He let all those wide receivers come off the board and then grab the best pass, catching tight end in the draft before Dallas could take him

 

Sounds to me like he played it. Pretty smooth.

19 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

2 TE sets are for teams that like to do play-action dink and dunks down the field. I know Dorsey wants to do it (because that's what he ran in college and that's what he knows) but we have a QB that likes to scramble and throw it 50 yards down field. It's going to take a retraining of the way Josh plays to be effective in that style of offense and it takes the threat of the run (Damien Harris) to get LB's to sink in. Not that it can't work but those things are not a strength of this team in the past few years so the offense is going to have to change a lot unless they are thinking they are going to be able to split Kincaid out which doesn't seem likely since he's a 4.7 guy and not a 4.5 or better. What makes him effective would be playing him on the line vs heavy fronts and then him sneaking behind the LB aka goal line situations

When we had a legitimate work, the middle of the field slot receiver in Cole, Beasley, Josh was perfectly happy to work the middle of the field and not go downtown with every throw
 

He needs someone he can trust and then he will go back to it

[stlbills13]

I'd rather get a TE who can at least play situationally and maybe more while also still developing than a defender or o lineman who does the same. Get offensive weapons amd figure out the sets

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, Airseven said:

Inevitable Beane panic trade up = F

Not taking defense = bumps to D

The fact that you hate this pic makes me love it even more

[Chandler#81]

I agree with a previous poster that Quinton Morris is a fine -if wildly underused- TE, so the roster is now set at that position. Barring significant injury, no other player need apply. I also think we’re better at WR than most believe. Therefore, commit the rest of the Draft to OL & DL. If a Wideout they really like becomes available, fine. But we can never have enough solid OL and our DT’s are all 1 year guys. I no longer see a path to trading for DHop, so we roll with who we have and look to improve our lines.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Chandler#81

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Not sure about this one.

 

I am probably the only guy that still thinks Quentin Morris is a stud if just given a chance! 

So I am going to say this

I also believe that Quinton Morris is better than the bills have given him the opportunity to show

 

But that’s the way that it goes sometimes sometimes a player Hass to come in with a sunk cost in them so that the team is forced to carve out a role and that’s whenever you see actual production from the position

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, BBFL said:

Hey, hopefully it pans out. Just feel it’s another KC-Chiefs-On-The-Brain-Move. 
 

Would have liked Avila or Bergeron. Maybe even Joey Porter Jr. with the way the board fell…

Some of those guys are still on the board to be picked

7 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

This is not a first rounder,  average speed 4.7 forty.  Small school and we gave up a 4th rounder with much better players available,  Beane has this team backwards and they will be fighting for wildcard. I see no overall improvement and this pick excites as much as the Cody Ford pick

It always makes me feel better when the people that don’t know anything about football don’t like the pics on draft Day that’s when you know we got a good player

7 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I expect more help for the OLine, making them more dangerous. 

Still pics left to go

[Fallser]

1 hour ago, Real McNasty said:

Kincaid could be a monster for us.

 

You love to see how NFL.com has the Bills and Josh Allen as losers Rd1? I don't understand how people write this crap and get paid?

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/the-first-read-winners-and-losers-from-round-1-of-the-2023-nfl-draft

 

Dude must have been burning too much midnight oil…he contradicted himself saying JA17 needs more weapons, so they add a weapon and he’s a Loser…dunno, this is some late night bull hock. Ignore it. 
 

feeling good about the pick this AM.

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

I understand the game.

 

Josh Allen historically likes throwing to WRS and prefers 11 personnel over 12.

 

We underused our 14 mil tight end and now we traded up to get a tight end who’s great at pass catching, but can’t block well.

 

Anything I miss there bud?

Yes, I think you missed the point
I think where you might be going down. The wrong path is thinking that Dalton Kincaid is going to be used in the same way as Dawson Knox

He won’t

What you saw a lot of last year was them keeping Dawson Knox in to block because the office of line wasn’t very good

You won’t see that from Dalton Kincaid he is not going to be asked to stay in and block. He is going to be used as a wide receiver.

And I think the reason why you don’t see Josh Allen throwing a lot of balls to tight ends is because Josh Allen likes separators guys that can get open. This is a guy that can get open in the slot.

[LabattBlue]

- I don’t care what his listed position is as long as he gets on the field and helps make Allen better and the Bills better. 
 

- Hope he can attend “TE University” this summer. 

 

- 24? BFD!  So at the ripe old age of 32, he will be an 8 year NFL vet. 
 

- Back issue?  Hope they are not of the recurring variety. 
 

- Daniel Jeremiah ranked him #9 overall. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by LabattBlue

[LEBills]

4 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

- I don’t care what his listed position is as long as he gets on the field and helps make Allen better and the Bills better. 
 

- Hope he can attend “TE University” this summer. 

 

- 24? BFD!  So at the ripe old age of 32, he will be an 8 year NFL vet. 
 

- Back issue?  Hope they are not of the recurring variety. 
 

- Daniel Jeremiah ranked him #9 overall. 

This is my biggest concern for him but listening to Beane there doctors cleared him and teams share results with each other and he “was definitely cleared”

 

I didn’t know teams shared that info and that makes me feel much better. As a receiver Kincaid is exactly the type of player we were missing, very excited

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 hours ago, Airseven said:

Inevitable Beane panic trade up = F

Not taking defense = bumps to D

Silence fish fan 

[KDIGGZ]

12 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

When we had a legitimate work, the middle of the field slot receiver in Cole, Beasley, Josh was perfectly happy to work the middle of the field and not go downtown with every throw

 

He needs someone he can trust and then he will go back to it

When you have 2 TE's on the line it's different than having a slot guy on obvious passing downs. If they think they are going to split him out then I don't know, I don't think he's that fast of a player to get open 1 on 1 with a nickel corner. It's not like he's a freak athlete, he's just a good athlete. I think he will be a good redzone option I just don't think he's going to be the every down guy that people are expecting out of round 1 guys

[pigpen65]

The majority of Dorsey's offense devolves into pulling the fire alarm and having Allen running around in circles dodging defenders while the recievers run around in circles trying to get open. So they get a guy who's good at finding open spots and getting open. I don't know, seems like a good fit to me. Again though, with Dorsey's no plan offense they still can't be done adding receivers. More more more 

[Mr. WEO]

It was a blessing the top O-lineman were already gone.  You need to draft a playmaker in round 1, not an ensemble player.

 

This guy is a playmaker.  

[streetkings01]

Too big for corners and too fast for linebackers……I love it.

 

This offense got a lot faster this off-season 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

When you have 2 TE's on the line it's different than having a slot guy on obvious passing downs. If they think they are going to split him out then I don't know, I don't think he's that fast of a player to get open 1 on 1 with a nickel corner. It's not like he's a freak athlete, he's just a good athlete. I think he will be a good redzone option I just don't think he's going to be the every down guy that people are expecting out of round 1 guys

 

Beasley wasn't fast enough to get open against most nickel corners either. He did it with leverage and feel. And I think there are some of the same skills in Kincaid. They are going to split him out as a big slot for the most part. To an extent I agree with you though, he is a good athlete but he isn't Kyle Pitts. He isn't an athletic freak of a receiving tight end and there is a question about what the "success criteria" looks like for this pick. But you have to keep the context of this draft in mind too. There just weren't those guaranteed difference makers there IMO - even before the run on receivers. I don't think any of those 4 guys will end up a true #1 level player. 

[mjt328]

In terms of the player himself, Dalton Kincaid was a fantastic pick.

One of the better Tight End prospects in the last several years.  Universally considered a mid/late first round guy.  Very possible the best offensive weapon available when the Bills were on the clock last night.

 

Just like many others on the board though, my concerns are not about Kincaid the player.  It's more about Ken Dorsey and how effective our offensive coordinator can be in properly utilizing his skillset.  For the last 3-4 years, this team has run mostly 11 personnel.  Now with Dawson Knox's big paycheck, and us investing a 1st Round Pick on another Tight End, this team is signaling a switch to mostly 12.  It's going to be a transition.

 

Last year, Beane made it a BIG priority to add a pass-catching RB to the offense.  He went after JD McKissic in free agency (missed out).  Then drafted James Cook in the 2nd Round.  Then traded for Nyheim Hines.  We had the players to make this a big piece of our offensive attack.  But Cook ended up with only 32 pass targets all season, and was simply used interchangeably with Devin Singletary.  Hines was barely used at all, except for returning punts.  Total waste of talent.

 

I hear all the ideas about Kincaid being a chess piece and matchup nightmare.  I hear all the creative ideas on how Kincaid will help us attack defenses.  My fear is that Dorsey isn't creative enough to do that.  Within a couple years, fans will be complaining that either the Knox contract or Kincaid draft pick was a bad decision, because our OC couldn't figure out how to use both.

 

[John from Riverside]

6 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

When you have 2 TE's on the line it's different than having a slot guy on obvious passing downs. If they think they are going to split him out then I don't know, I don't think he's that fast of a player to get open 1 on 1 with a nickel corner. It's not like he's a freak athlete, he's just a good athlete. I think he will be a good redzone option I just don't think he's going to be the every down guy that people are expecting out of round 1 guys

It’s not like Kobe Easley was this freakishly, fast wide receiver to begin with. He was good at finding spaces in the zones.
 

One thing that I have not seen talked about with Dalton is his basketball background he actually hasn’t been playing football for very long because he was playing basketball

 

He’s not gonna be the cornerback in his routes he’s going to wall them off and catch the ball hits the line backers that are trying to cover him that need to be worrying about getting lost

[Donuts and Doritos]

2DK Bills! (Dawson Knox, Dalton Kincaid) 

 

This is the guy I wanted. Best hands in the draft. Need to use the 2DKs like NE used Gronk/Hernandez.

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Beasley wasn't fast enough to get open against most nickel corners either. He did it with leverage and feel. And I think there are some of the same skills in Kincaid. They are going to split him out as a big slot for the most part. To an extent I agree with you though, he is a good athlete but he isn't Kyle Pitts. He isn't an athletic freak of a receiving tight end and there is a question about what the "success criteria" looks like for this pick. But you have to keep the context of this draft in mind too. There just weren't those guaranteed difference makers there IMO - even before the run on receivers. I don't think any of those 4 guys will end up a true #1 level player. 

Yeah, I really liked what Bing did as far as position in this draft there were certain positions that were said to have stronger talent than others, and that this was not an incredibly strong draft. Overall, one of the positions of strength was tight end, so being took the best tight
 

And all this comparing him to Pitts I don’t understand why a player hast to be compared to the most freak athlete at a position to be determined whether it’s a success or not suppose Dalton ends up being Mike Gasecki would that be a win? I think it would.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I have been saying for years that a 2 TE offense is the way to go. We can stay in our base offense and do whatever we want. No more Diggs double and triple teams this year.

[John from Riverside]

24 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

- I don’t care what his listed position is as long as he gets on the field and helps make Allen better and the Bills better. 
 

- Hope he can attend “TE University” this summer. 

 

- 24? BFD!  So at the ripe old age of 32, he will be an 8 year NFL vet. 
 

- Back issue?  Hope they are not of the recurring variety. 
 

- Daniel Jeremiah ranked him #9 overall. 

By all means, get Dawson Knox to drag him down to tight, end university along with him this summer

Just now, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I have been saying for years that a 2 TE offense is the way to go. We can stay in our base offense and do whatever we want. No more Diggs double and triple teams this year.

And no more tipping off weather, pass or run you can do either out of a two tiedown set

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Yeah, I really liked what Bing did as far as position in this draft there were certain positions that were said to have stronger talent than others, and that this was not an incredibly strong draft. Overall, one of the positions of strength was tight end, so being took the best tight
 

And all this comparing him to Pitts I don’t understand why a player hast to be compared to the most freak athlete at a position to be determined whether it’s a success or not suppose Dalton ends up being Mike Gasecki would that be a win? I think it would.

 

Well that's kinda the point.... what is the success criteria. In most drafts would I call Mike Gesicki style production from a 1st round tight end a win? No. In this draft would I? Possibly. Although I think he is more Hunter Henry than Mike Gesicki in terms of style. Henry went early 2nd from memory, Gesicki a little later round 2. 

[BarleyNY]

I certainly see the fit. The offense needs someone besides Diggs that can uncover early. That will be especially useful in the red zone. So I’m guessing we will see a lot of 11 personnel when there’s a lot of field in front of us and a lot of 12 in the RZ. 

 

I only watched the ASU game so I haven’t seen a lot of film. I love his hands and route running. But I really hate his “blocking” and dislike that he’s an older prospect - he’ll be 24 in October. I’m not wild about the back injury either. Still, I really didn’t see a lot of better options out there at 25/27. I’d have much preferred a more aggressive trade up into the teens for JSN though. 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well that's kinda the point.... what is the success criteria. In most drafts would I call Mike Gesicki style production from a 1st round tight end a win? No. In this draft would I? Possibly. Although I think he is more Hunter Henry than Mike Gesicki in terms of style. Henry went early 2nd from memory, Gesicki a little later round 2. 

Well, in that case, then you’re right we should want to get a little bit more production out of Dalton since he was a first round pick

 

It’s been so long since we have had a player like this I need to see what it looks like on the field before I start making comparisons

 

We literally have not drafted an offensive player since Josh Allen in the first round

[Happy Days Lois & Clark]

There are high end corners in our division. 2 high end TE’s will offer the Bills a different way to attack defenses.

[FLFan]

17 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

When you have 2 TE's on the line it's different than having a slot guy on obvious passing downs. If they think they are going to split him out then I don't know, I don't think he's that fast of a player to get open 1 on 1 with a nickel corner. It's not like he's a freak athlete, he's just a good athlete. I think he will be a good redzone option I just don't think he's going to be the every down guy that people are expecting out of round 1 guys

Travis Kielce ran a 4.63 at the combine.  Just saying.  This is a player the Bills can use for matchups all over the field but I think he will be primarily a slot type, rarely in-line.  50% of snaps is probably a good expectation year 1.  He does not have to play every down to be impactful.  We will see how they are able to use the new weapon.  Should be fun.  

[NeverOutNick]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well that's kinda the point.... what is the success criteria. In most drafts would I call Mike Gesicki style production from a 1st round tight end a win? No. In this draft would I? Possibly. Although I think he is more Hunter Henry than Mike Gesicki in terms of style. Henry went early 2nd from memory, Gesicki a little later round 2. 

He’s even got bigger upside than both of those guys coming out. He really is one of the few guys in this draft that pop when you watch them on tape. I don’t even care that he can’t block well because he’s going to pluck those Allen passes with ease as he creates his own holes ala Kelce-esqe, with his smooth route running and after the catch he’s got a little Kittle in him. After Flowers he is the most special pass catcher in this draft. Now we have to hope that Dorsey elevates his game this year and makes the best use of all his toys for Josh to play with