OC Dorsey no regard for clock Management

[jahbonas]

I was shocked when a reporter asked Dorsey about his play calling in the series near the 7 minutes left in the game mark and up 11

In that series we ran it on 1st down with incomplete passes on 2nd and 3rd down saving a critical minute for the Jets

Reporter basically asked didnt he consider running the ball 3x there to run clock and force the Jets into using some timeouts - his response was not a thought at all  - he wanted to keep the offense balanced

We cant have an OC living in a bubble not differentiating between play calling in the first quarter from calling plays in a 4th qtr with a lead  - we will get burned by this

[mikemac2001]

You don’t want to just go in a run run run mode and allow them to just get the ball back. I thought his play calling was fine people are just upset at the knox drop play but that’s ballgame if he caught it 

[Hsker4life]

That’s too soon to run run run punt. You run the best offense you think you have an try and string together first downs. 

[DJB]

First downs kill the clock more than run run run punt

[Malazan]

These posts should require a link to the interview. This poster lied about his statement. 

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/ken-dorsey-i-m-excited-about-the-direction-of-this-offense

 

The question is about 38 seconds into the interview. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Malazan

[3rdand12]

7 minutes is a long time  from game end to be managing the clock with runs

[1ManRaid]

Last I checked we led the league in scoring in the final two minutes of the half, so it can't be THAT bad.

[streetkings01]

13 minutes ago, jahbonas said:

I was shocked when a reporter asked Dorsey about his play calling in the series near the 7 minutes left in the game mark and up 11

In that series we ran it on 1st down with incomplete passes on 2nd and 3rd down saving a critical minute for the Jets

Reporter basically asked didnt he consider running the ball 3x there to run clock and force the Jets into using some timeouts - his response was not a thought at all  - he wanted to keep the offense balanced

We cant have an OC living in a bubble not differentiating between play calling in the first quarter from calling plays in a 4th qtr with a lead  - we will get burned by this

7 minutes left up by 2 scores and you think we should run 3 straight downs?

[BuffBillsForLife]

There's too much time left at that point for run->run->run->punt.  Pick up a first or two and then go into run only mode.

[Matt_In_NH]

So let’s do the most conservative predictable thing ever?  Just what we need a return of the run run run punt offense   I think Dorsey’s point if your goal there is to clock by getting first downs.  Sure they can run run run and burn a fixed amount.  But try to take 5 minutes and get points.  The downside is if you go three and out but it’s worth the risk.  

[Toyo321]

Dorsey is just flat out lacking experience as an OC.  Not enough game experience as OC,  and to much reading off his to do list.

 

He is just not qualified IMO to be OC.  He never was.

[Mango]

I am just worried about not starting every third down third and long. We can deal with clock management later. 

[Matt_In_NH]

3 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

Dorsey is just flat out lacking experience as an OC.  Not enough game experience as OC,  and to much reading off his to do list.

 

He is just not qualified IMO to be OC.  He never was.

 

The bills are second in yards, fourth in points and second in 3rd down conversion rate.   In light of those numbers what reasons do you have for your take?  Genuinely curious

 

 If josh takes a snap vs the Vikings and Davis  holds onto a ball in Miami they would be 12-1.    
 

 

I get things don’t always go well but do they under Daboll?  Everyone always wanted him fired too.  

[boater]

Uh.. isn't McDermott the nexus of clock management, not Dorsey. Didn't the Bills hire a "Clock Management" Assistant Coach?

 

I don't get the venom pointed at Dorsey for clock management.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

It was actually 8:26 left on the clock and that is a lot of time.  You can still throw the ball with high percentage plays that will still keep the clock moving.  Brady perfected using the pass in to burn clock with 5 min left.  You just need to be smart with the calls.  I'm pretty sure the second down was a Singletary drop.  I think he was an outlet and not the primary target on that play but I may be wrong. The third down play should have been a safe underneath pass that might be able to pick up the first down.  Worst case scenario you burn 40 more seconds on the clock.  

[njbuff]

If Bills receivers weren't dropping everything like they were being tossed lava balls, this wouldn't be a discussion. 

[Epstein's Mother]

15 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

Dorsey is just flat out lacking experience as an OC.  Not enough game experience as OC,  and to much reading off his to do list.

 

He is just not qualified IMO to be OC.  He never was.

 

13 games is too small a sample size to proclaim anything about Dorsey.  However, the offensive numbers put up by the Bills this year would support the argument that he's doing a pretty good job.

[ColoradoBills]

[Bad Things]

22 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

Dorsey is just flat out lacking experience as an OC.  Not enough game experience as OC,  and to much reading off his to do list.

 

He is just not qualified IMO to be OC.  He never was.

Good grief.

 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, jahbonas said:

I was shocked when a reporter asked Dorsey about his play calling in the series near the 7 minutes left in the game mark and up 11

In that series we ran it on 1st down with incomplete passes on 2nd and 3rd down saving a critical minute for the Jets

Reporter basically asked didnt he consider running the ball 3x there to run clock and force the Jets into using some timeouts - his response was not a thought at all  - he wanted to keep the offense balanced

We cant have an OC living in a bubble not differentiating between play calling in the first quarter from calling plays in a 4th qtr with a lead  - we will get burned by this

 

his goal there needs to be first downs and not simply 3 runs 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

5 hours ago, jahbonas said:

I was shocked when a reporter asked Dorsey about his play calling in the series near the 7 minutes left in the game mark and up 11

In that series we ran it on 1st down with incomplete passes on 2nd and 3rd down saving a critical minute for the Jets

Reporter basically asked didnt he consider running the ball 3x there to run clock and force the Jets into using some timeouts - his response was not a thought at all  - he wanted to keep the offense balanced

We cant have an OC living in a bubble not differentiating between play calling in the first quarter from calling plays in a 4th qtr with a lead  - we will get burned by this

I agree that his answer made no sense.

 

He just talked about balance and keeping the Jets guessing.

 

It was a similar story after the Vikings in the 4th quarter, why are you passing with 3 minutes left? 
 

Situation aside, all I can take from Dorsey is the same thing I could take from Daboll, he’s going to do what’s he’s going to do and it’s not always going to line up with what we are seeing on TV.

 

At this point I don’t have any belief that a Hines package is coming for instance, or that Gabe Davis starts running different routes, or Dawson Knox becomes the #2 because we can’t wait for Gabe any longer.

 

I think Cook’s usage will stay erratic and there won’t be any quality explanation for it.

 

Hopefully it’s enough to win.

 

 

[WideNine]

6 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

7 minutes is a long time  from game end to be managing the clock with runs

 

I agree, but the clock was at 1:12 when Dorsey had Allen throw incomplete to Knox.

 

I still think in that situation you keep it on the ground, and keep the clock going and force them to burn their timeouts. It was certainly unexpected, and that is probably why Knox was so wide open. Going to chalk the head-scratchers up to growing pains.

 

I do hope he gives more carries to Motor and Cook if the weather is what I think it will be against Miami. If ANY game was tailor made to grind it out while Tua, Cheetah, and Waddle freeze their tails off watching from the sidelines this would be it.

 

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

6 hours ago, mikemac2001 said:

You don’t want to just go in a run run run mode and allow them to just get the ball back. I thought his play calling was fine people are just upset at the knox drop play but that’s ballgame if he caught it 

Exactly. It was the right call. I can’t stand when teams take their foot off the gas and start playing conservative. The defense was playing great at that point so why not go for the kill. 

[Freak-O]

6 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

Dorsey is just flat out lacking experience as an OC.  Not enough game experience as OC,  and to much reading off his to do list.

 

He is just not qualified IMO to be OC.  He never was.

Considering we’re a successful snap, a few sun shades and a little focus away from being 13-0 I’d say he’s doing just fine. 

[BuffaloButt]

8 hours ago, jahbonas said:

I was shocked when a reporter asked Dorsey about his play calling in the series near the 7 minutes left in the game mark and up 11

In that series we ran it on 1st down with incomplete passes on 2nd and 3rd down saving a critical minute for the Jets

Reporter basically asked didnt he consider running the ball 3x there to run clock and force the Jets into using some timeouts - his response was not a thought at all  - he wanted to keep the offense balanced

We cant have an OC living in a bubble not differentiating between play calling in the first quarter from calling plays in a 4th qtr with a lead  - we will get burned by this

Running only is how the Saints lost to the Bucs a week ago when they had a 13 point lead.  Aggressive usually wins!

[Gunvald's Husse]

6 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

Dorsey is just flat out lacking experience as an OC.  Not enough game experience as OC,  and to much reading off his to do list.

 

He is just not qualified IMO to be OC.  He never was.

So only an OC with lots of experience can be an OC. How exactly is he supposed to get that experience then? Playing Madden? 🙄

[Big Turk]

Clock management doesn't seem to be an issue. They lead the NFL in points scored in the last 2 minutes of the first half. Never have any issues running out of time I'm those drives and usually don't leave much time for the other team.

 

OP, I know it's en vogue to find things to complain about with the best team we have had in...I don't know...almost 35 years...maybe ever...but trust me...this ain't it.

[BillsfaninSB]

I think the OP is some what correct.  I’m astonished at the times when they abandoned the run game. 
 

The Packer game when they unleashed Cook.  Got them down to the red zone and then Josh throws that dumb interception that let the Packers back in the game.  Should have kept feeding Cook. 

 

Then the Viking game with 10.5 minutes left.  2nd and 2 on the 8 yard line.  Great drive and up by 10.  Running game was pretty good.  Dorsey then calls 3 passes.  All incompletions and turnover on downs.

 

There have been other times.

 

Play smart and use up clock.  Getting a FG is okay in those situations.  Also minimizes Josh’s risk of injury or interceptions. 
 

Given Dorsey is former QB, great at the college level, I think he subscribes to the hero ball approach too much when it is not necessary. 

[Captain Hindsight]

4 hours ago, Gunvald's Husse said:

So only an OC with lots of experience can be an OC. How exactly is he supposed to get that experience then? Playing Madden? 🙄

Oh I have a ton of experience then! I’ll polish up my resume 

[Ya Digg?]

I believe there is a certain defensive coordinator who has been getting crushed on here for the last 10 months or so because he went super conservative, playing not to lose

[Johnnycage46]

13 hours ago, jahbonas said:

I was shocked when a reporter asked Dorsey about his play calling in the series near the 7 minutes left in the game mark and up 11

In that series we ran it on 1st down with incomplete passes on 2nd and 3rd down saving a critical minute for the Jets

Reporter basically asked didnt he consider running the ball 3x there to run clock and force the Jets into using some timeouts - his response was not a thought at all  - he wanted to keep the offense balanced

We cant have an OC living in a bubble not differentiating between play calling in the first quarter from calling plays in a 4th qtr with a lead  - we will get burned by this

 

No, what Dorsey said was he didn't think the Jets were going to use timeouts with 7 minutes left in the 4th and they were focused on running the offense as usual.

[Metal Man]

Problem right now is the Bills don't have the horses to gain yardage on the ground in an obvious run situation. Decent running teams can still get a push and gain a couple yards in this situation so run, run on 1st and 2nd can burn some clock and put them in a decent 3rd down situation where another run or short pass can get it done.

 

When the Bills go run, run in obvious run situations they are typically looking at 3rd and 10 or more. I assume Dorsey knows this as well and is trying to find other ways to get first downs and burn clock. That short pass to Singletary was a good call as you should be able to assume that is a high % chance of completion, but unfortunately he dropped it. 

[BillsFanSD]

13 hours ago, jahbonas said:

I was shocked when a reporter asked Dorsey about his play calling in the series near the 7 minutes left in the game mark and up 11

In that series we ran it on 1st down with incomplete passes on 2nd and 3rd down saving a critical minute for the Jets

Reporter basically asked didnt he consider running the ball 3x there to run clock and force the Jets into using some timeouts - his response was not a thought at all  - he wanted to keep the offense balanced

We cant have an OC living in a bubble not differentiating between play calling in the first quarter from calling plays in a 4th qtr with a lead  - we will get burned by this

Nope.  If I wanted Dick Jauron running the offense, I would hire Jauron.  I do not want our OC flinging RBs into the teeth of the defense when we need first downs.

[mannc]

6 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Exactly. It was the right call. I can’t stand when teams take their foot off the gas and start playing conservative. The defense was playing great at that point so why not go for the kill. 

The Chiefs do that all the time when they have a lead late in games…teams are expecting run to kill the clock, and Reid instead runs a quick play-action pass (usually to Kelce)…game over.  

The Jets had all 3 timeouts, so the Bills would not have been able to run out the clock anyway.  It was a good call, poorly executed by Knox.

[dave mcbride]

12 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

It was actually 8:26 left on the clock and that is a lot of time.  You can still throw the ball with high percentage plays that will still keep the clock moving.  Brady perfected using the pass in to burn clock with 5 min left.  You just need to be smart with the calls.  I'm pretty sure the second down was a Singletary drop.  I think he was an outlet and not the primary target on that play but I may be wrong. The third down play should have been a safe underneath pass that might be able to pick up the first down.  Worst case scenario you burn 40 more seconds on the clock.  

Yes, that was a safe and easy pitch and catch that Singletary simply dropped.

[AlfaBill]

14 hours ago, mikemac2001 said:

You don’t want to just go in a run run run mode and allow them to just get the ball back. I thought his play calling was fine people are just upset at the knox drop play but that’s ballgame if he caught it 

Not really a drop. That was a great defensive play by Mosley and the ball was a bit under thrown. But I do sgree

[PromoTheRobot]

14 hours ago, mikemac2001 said:

You don’t want to just go in a run run run mode and allow them to just get the ball back. I thought his play calling was fine people are just upset at the knox drop play but that’s ballgame if he caught it 

Whatever you're doing, do the other! Going into a shell (all-run mode) against the Jets defense helps the Jets!

 

P.S. My head will explode if I see one more thread about clock management.

Edited December 14, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[Livinginthepast]

I was actually thinking the time management had been better this year. I seem to recall getting more irate in previous seasons at more lapses in use of timeouts and game management. However I will say that we have been burned by failure to execute getting a first down and killing clock in some games this year simply by drops and lack of focus. The fumble in the endzone by Josh is not on Dorsey.  While it makes sense to run it 3 times to kill clock and timeouts in some situations, we are horrible at getting 10 yards on a first or 2nd down run which inevitably puts us in these 3rd down situations where we have to pass and the defenses seem ready for us.   Bottom line, the Bills always have to make things as stressful as possible!

17 minutes ago, AlfaBill said:

Not really a drop. That was a great defensive play by Mosley and the ball was a bit under thrown. But I do sgree

Yes not a drop but Knox should have brought the ball into his body to make the catch, instead he held it out in front of him where the DB slapped it out. Silly mistake.

[vincec]

8 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

I agree, but the clock was at 1:12 when Dorsey had Allen throw incomplete to Knox.

 

I still think in that situation you keep it on the ground, and keep the clock going and force them to burn their timeouts. It was certainly unexpected, and that is probably why Knox was so wide open. Going to chalk the head-scratchers up to growing pains.

 

I do hope he gives more carries to Motor and Cook if the weather is what I think it will be against Miami. If ANY game was tailor made to grind it out while Tua, Cheetah, and Waddle freeze their tails off watching from the sidelines this would be it.

 

 

It was a decent call because you knew it would be open. The only wild card was the impact of the weather conditions, which did affect the play (under thrown pass + not a strong catch). But given the Bills inability to run the ball, it's hard to question it, unless you just wanted to basically give up and make the Jets use their timeouts and punt.

[Toyo321]

18 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 

The bills are second in yards, fourth in points and second in 3rd down conversion rate.   In light of those numbers what reasons do you have for your take?  Genuinely curious

 

 If josh takes a snap vs the Vikings and Davis  holds onto a ball in Miami they would be 12-1.    
 

 

I get things don’t always go well but do they under Daboll?  Everyone always wanted him fired too.  

Anyone watching the games for the past 7 weeks can clearly see that he has not been able to adjust his play calling for a complete game.  All 60 minutes!!!

 

Even JA17 on his podcast with Kyle Brant was asked if he can just make call changes at the line to change the call sent down from the OC booth.  He said he can do it if there is a absolute weakness he see's prior to the snap, but generally he can't just make calls on his own.   Not like what Payton manning, Brady or Drew Brees were allowed to do.  

 

So when you see these piss poor running plays called from up stairs and these passes that are thrown to receiver’s that are not the best option on the field as the play unfolds.  There is only one person to blame Dorsey.  He still has not learned how to utilize the talent he has in hand.  Cook or Hines in the short field and let them try and get the YAC that we all know they could get if given the chance.   This team is immune to screens, it hardly has any presnap motion, the running backs poor decisions sometimes just blows my mind when they make a terrible cut to the outside when they should have brought the run right up the field, this even happens when the running game is working well for us.   They keep going away from the high percentage plays and recently they are forced to contend with 3rd down and forever and they can't convert them, unless they are bailed out with a penalty or a defensive screw up by the other team.

 

When is the last time this team tried a trick play on offense???   I can't recall the last attempt anytime in the last 10 games much less 2022.

 

Dorsey is trash as a OC.  The only thing that has bailed out his sorry ass has been JA17's ability to improvise on the field. 

 

You put any other QB behind center with our OC, and this offense is in the bottom 1/3 of the league.

 

When you have your star wide receiver having it out on the field with your head coach for everyone to see you know something is wrong.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Toyo321