How much of a drop off is Ken Dorsey from Brian Daboll (if any)?

[JohnNord]

Easily the biggest variable from last year to this season is the Bills offensive coordinator.  However, in discussing Ken Dorsey it seems like the consensus is that he will be somewhat of a downgrade from Brian Daboll and there’s an assumption that he’s going to struggle at times as a first time OC.  

 

I’m not saying both scenarios won’t happen - they very well could.  But I also think there’s a better chance that Dorsey could have closer to the same or even more success on offense than Daboll.  Not necessarily because of his playing ability but because of Josh Allen the evolution of the skill players.  
 

Dorsey is going to be handed a Top 5 QB and WR duo, along with players like Davis, McKenzie, and Knox who are experienced and seem to be ready to step-up and contribute.  Plus what should be a slightly better OL and running game along with a player like James Cook who offers a skill set that was missing last season.  

And while Dorsey has never called plays as OC before before he has the pedigree, experience, and at one time was considered a “hot” OC candidate with Carolina before Cam broke down.  
 

Also, regarding Daboll IIRC the fanbase was split for the majority of Daboll’s tenure with the Bills.  Many fans, some of the media, and even McDermott himself were critical of some games Daboll called.   Others disputed how much credit he should get for calling plays with a breakout superstar like Josh.  
 

Even during the successful seasons in 2020 and 2021, at mid-season many were calling for his job.  It wasn’t until strong performances late in the year that fans came around.   Perhaps that resiliency was a testament to his experience and ability as OC?  

 

Personally I think Daboll did a great job in Buffalo - specially with developing the identity of Josh as a passer.  Because of Josh and because of the talent on offense around him, I’m not sure it will be that much of a step back - if at all, but we’ll see 

 

 

[dorquemada]

hot take inbound:

 

Daboll was a good to very good OC who occasionally had lapses in judgement where he got either too cute or too predictable with playcalling.  Dorsey, if he can avoid that, will be as good if not better

[Nextmanup]

Who knows!?  I guess we'll sort of find out in the weeks ahead, though I think it is hard to infer coordinator performance based on player performance on the field.

 

Fans tend to react to bad plays and blame it on the OC, when in fact, the players may have run the wrong route (that the OC didn't call) or tons of other things contributing to the failure, all of which has NOTHING to do with the coordinator...

 

That doesn't mean you can't evaluate the coordinator in some ways, though.

 

 

[Process]

Literally no one knows lol. 

 

Daboll's play calling sucked. I am hoping there is no where to go but up. 

[PrimeTime101]

Dorsey has yet to coach a single NFL regular season game as a Bills OC. So, to measure them up at this point, more feels like pregame nerves to me. Ken brings in a different dynamic then Brian. I feel Ken will Be better in some places like the run game and worse areas in the passing game. I do think Ken is going to bring us more balance to this offense... They would not have gotten an RB early in the draft if the team felt otherwise. 

 

To early bro but well written. This is pregame jitters

[longtimebillsfan]

Ken is a former qb and the Bills have given him support with Shula on the staff. 

 

I am confident Dorsey will keep the wheels on the track.

Edited September 7, 2022 by longtimebillsfan

[DJB]

Won't we be finding out relatively soon?!??! lol

[Dablitzkrieg]

0

[Jauronimo]

I'll let you know in 18 weeks.

[JESSEFEFFER]

1 minute ago, dorquemada said:

hot take inbound:

 

Daboll was a good to very good OC who occasionally had lapses in judgement where he got either too cute or too predictable with playcalling.  Dorsey, if he can avoid that, will be as good if not better

 

It's normal for an offense to go through a period of lackluster play during the course of a season.  The OC needs to know the right buttons to push to get the O back on track.  The Bills had such periods during every season Daboll was in charge of it here.  Dorsey may be better at it as you posted.  I agree.  He may have better concepts of how to distribute the ball to players in space.  He may unlock the YAC.

[KDIGGZ]

Dorsey has Shula, Boras, Brady, and Kromer - all former OC's. This is also the Josh Allen show in year 5 and he will be letting Dorsey know which play he wants to run or audibling to the play he wants. I don't think it's just Dorsey up in the booth calling whatever play that pops into his head, it's more involved than that and he has a lot of support 

[Shaw66]

I fully expect Dorsey to be better than Daboll.  I always thought Daboll was limited, and I actually was hoping someone would offer him a head coaching gig, so he'd leave.    

 

I started with some doubts about Dorsey, but I'm fully on board now.  I think he's smarter than Daboll, and I think he's more willing to take risks than Daboll.   I think he will be a hot head coaching prospect in three years, max.   The Bills will need to write him a big check to keep in Buffalo as OC, just like the Pats were willing to do with McDaniels.  

 

Am I sure?  Of course not.   He could fail miserably.    I just don't think the Daboll set some kind of really high bar.   I think Dorsey's been waiting a few years for the opportunity to run an offense, studying, working at it.   I think he probably had opportunities to leave Buffalo, but he chose to stay for three years.  Why?   Because he see where this was going, and it meant that his OC opportunity was coming in Buffalo, so he waited for it. 

[Logic]

My favorite quote so far is that Dorsey's playbook is like "A Beautiful Mind".

I also enjoyed reading that during his time with the Panthers, he had all these crazy plays dreamed up, but one of his players told him "Dorse, we can't call that. We don't have the talent here to execute it". But now he DOES have the talent on board to execute those plays, and I'm excited to see what they look like.

Could Dorsey be a dropoff from Daboll? Sure. He could also be an improvement, and that possibility isn't discussed enough.

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

I personally hated Dabolls play calling.  When it worked, it was great.  He was just so slow in adjusting play calling.  Tampa Bay game last year is a perfect example.  Changes should have been made in the first half of that game yet, waited until the second half.  I thought he was stubborn and tried to force things at times.  The Jet sweep all but disappeared last year.  Why?

 

Anyway, I suspect Dorsey will be better.

[Augie]

32 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

hot take inbound:

 

Daboll was a good to very good OC who occasionally had lapses in judgement where he got either too cute or too predictable with playcalling.  Dorsey, if he can avoid that, will be as good if not better

 

It is my hope that Kromer can make Dorsey look better by coaching up the OL so we can have a respectable running game. Everything gets easier when all the options are on the table and the defense has to account for all of them. 

[julian]

Dorsey will be a hot head coaching candidate following the 2023 season, this is what Josh Allen is… he’s a head coach maker.

 

 Seriously though this is Josh Allen’s offence and it’s awesome.

[Rubes]

I thought Daboll was a very good OC with some great game plans and stretches of really excellent playcalling. Also, periods of time when the planning and playcalling were real head scratchers.

 

I'm hoping Dorsey will improve on that. He's got the creativity and all the tools, we'll just have to see.

 

[GunnerBill]

Daboll was better than most fans want to think he was. Did a great job with this offense and developing Josh Allen. 

 

But at this stage Josh Allen is completely coordinator proof. I don't expect any drop off as long as Dorsey doesn't suddenly decide we need to run the ball a ton more.

[K-9]

Zero drop off. This offense is tailored to Josh Allen, regardless of whom the OC is.  Dorsey has been in the room for several seasons now and he knows exactly what Josh likes and doesn’t like for every situation. And I’m pretty sure he has a firm command of situational football. 

[Don Otreply]

Dorsey will likely become a step up,  in which Dabol ignored the run game for the most part, until McDermott insisted he and his offensive coaches make it happen, Dorsey on the other hand, is good with a contributing backfield, and sees it as another tool to keep opposing defenses on their heals. At the end of the day this makes for a more dynamic offense. 

[Mrbojanglezs]

Long-term I think Dorsey will be better at worse the same as Daboll but I wouldn't be surprised if the offense is not as prolific the first couple weeks as he works out the kinks as a play caller

[Bruffalo]

14 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

It is my hope that Kromer can make Dorsey look better by coaching up the OL so we can have a respectable running game. Everything gets easier when all the options are on the table and the defense has to account for all of them. 

I think this is a big change that can easily get overlooked.  I think Bobby Johnson was a middling to bad position coach.  We had no O-Line identity at all last season.  I expect that to be a lot better this year. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

24 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Dorsey has Shula, Boras, Brady, and Kromer - all former OC's. This is also the Josh Allen show in year 5 and he will be letting Dorsey know which play he wants to run or audibling to the play he wants. I don't think it's just Dorsey up in the booth calling whatever play that pops into his head, it's more involved than that and he has a lot of support 

 

Agree.  Dorsey is 6 years younger, an ex QB.  It could help him being younger more in tune with todays NFL player and being an ex QB can also help and was very close with Allen. 

 

But these things could also hurt him too.  IMO they'd more likely help than hurt, but you never know.  Will see in December.

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Daboll was better than most fans want to think he was. Did a great job with this offense and developing Josh Allen. 

 

But at this stage Josh Allen is completely coordinator proof. I don't expect any drop off as long as Dorsey doesn't suddenly decide we need to run the ball a ton more.

 

I certainly don’t want to become a run first team, but I DO want an effective running game. Maybe get a safety up in the box to make the passing game easier. I want ALL our options to actually be viable. Make the defense worry about everything! 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I certainly don’t want to become a run first team, but I DO want an effective running game. Maybe get a safety up in the box to make the passing game easier. I want ALL our options to actually be viable. Make the defense worry about everything! 

 

I am all for running better. I don't want us to run more. The success of our run game is entirely dependant on how the OL plays for me.

[HOUSE]

Ken Dorsey takes up less room on long flights 

[Bruffalo]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I am all for running better. I don't want us to run more. The success of our run game is entirely dependant on how the OL plays for me.

Running better and more varied runs.  I swear the Bills haven't run an outside sweep since Shady was here.  It's only been between the tackles because of the lack of speed.  I hope the addition of James Cook really opens up the running playbook a bit. 

[JohnNord]

52 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

Ken is a former qb and the Bills have given him support with Shula on the staff. 

 

I am confident Dorsey will keep tge wheels on the track.

…and a built-in replacement if he fails in Joe Brady

[longtimebillsfan]

8 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

…and a built-in replacement if he fails in Joe Brady

Exactly.  My hope is Dorsey leaves for a head coaching job in a few years due to his tremendous success and Brady is ready to take his place.

 

Beane really seems to cover all the bases.  He sets up successors in house for most staff positions. 

 

We are so fortunate to have Beane.

Edited September 7, 2022 by longtimebillsfan

[Mr. WEO]

this just IN

[Gugny]

I want to see QB draws at some point in EVERY DRIVE.

[Simon]

10 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I want to see QB draws at some point in EVERY DRIVE.

 

🖕

 

Report that!

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

I'm going to go out on a limb here: I think he's going to be better than Daboll. I like Daboll. I think he did well bringing Josh along and I wish him well in NJ.

 

But now that Allen is on his game, and can play loose I think that Dorsey can add wrinkles in. Plus, our run game has been pretty vanilla outside of RPO and Josh runs. I'm hoping that Kromer has a few things lined up. 

[Steptide]

I think Dorsey may have some rookie oc hiccups, but I'm willing to bet he's more aggressive and smarter in the redzone than daboll. Not that daboll wasn't necessarily aggressive, but I just remember way too many run plays in the redzone when the bills would drive right down the field passing every play. Then all of sudden, 2 hand offs to singletary or moss 🙄

[Homey D. Clown]

I was not an avid Dabol fan, but could be classified as a casuall affeccionado of him.  I think dorsey will have a more balanced approach to game plans and you'll likely see more out of the running game.  No drop off expected here.

[In Summary]

Dorsey won't do worse in his first game than Daboll did last year in his 4-wide, empty backfield palooza against Pittsburgh.   I expect good things.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Net Zero 

 

There is a chance but not likely 

 

It has been said that KD’s adding in more plays that Josh likes and removing those he doesn’t 

[MJS]

I'm assuming there will be some growing pains, but there is no reason why he can't be just as good or even better.

 

Two years from now he will be a head coach. The Bills OC position is now a fast track for head coaching opportunities.

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I am all for running better. I don't want us to run more. The success of our run game is entirely dependant on how the OL plays for me.

Hey, if they think they have a big advantage running the ball against certain teams, I'm all for them doing that. Or if their passing game isn't working and they need to make in-game adjustments and run the ball more, great.

 

They need to be good at what they do. If they need to run the ball, they need to be good at it. If they need to pass it 60 times, they need to be good at it. The best teams are the ones who can adjust how they attack when they meet a road block.

[TampaBillsJunkie]

I'm on the "better" side only because of Josh's development. I think Dorsey will listen and trust Josh to call some of his own plays or make adjustments at the line depending on how he reads the defense. We've got two very competitive, winning QB's working together. I think this makes a difference. Daboll was working within a system that was handed down to him. He creatively worked within the framework, but wasn't the type to make a lot of in-game adjustments to the game plan. 

I think this offense will be more creative in time. Two brains operating Josh's body will help him. Dorsey will see things from the 1000 ft view and Josh will see ground level. If there's no ego and a perfect balance between the two, I personally think we can become unstoppable. 

[Franco_92]

I have high hopes for Dorsey, but I think the world of Daboll. It's easy to say that playcalling is wrong when things don't go well, but the other teams generally have good players trying hard as well. Most of the few struggles we had the last couple of years were pretty clearly boiled down to OL personnel. The Bills offense became elite under Daboll for the first time in my life. He finished his Bills tenure orchestrating 12 touchdown drives out of 15 or 16 total playoff drives. He was excellent at his job. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by arcane