Preparing for Tre White to never be the same post-injury

[ganesh]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

Tre isn't an average player, though. I would rather see the data for really good players. It is muddled from all the players who are average or crappy, who would have shorter careers anyway.

 

We have a ton of examples of really good players coming back from serious injuries, including ACL tears, and playing at a high level. There's no reason Tre White can't be one of those.

https://drsterett.com/5-pro-athletes-who-have-torn-their-acl

2 minutes ago, ganesh said:

https://drsterett.com/5-pro-athletes-who-have-torn-their-acl

 

McGahee tore his ACL (along with other things) in College National Championship and went on to become a top-40 RB in the NFL

[Punching Bag]

16 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I'm not disputing the facts of these studies. I would just add that the overall career length for all NFL players is less than 3 years.

Average is a term used by those without math backgrounds.  Mean is more appropriate.  There are hundreds of players who amount to nothing other than practice squad / inactive players who depress the average.  I worked with one of those players who was signed by JEST as UDFA and bounced between inactive and practice squad with very few live snaps.  Fortunately he did something with his education and is making good money in computer security.  

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

I hope you're right. 

 

 

According to 3 different studies, the odds seem to be against what we both want.

 

The studies are all very questionable.  The data looks at in many cases 3 years out and the issue is that is past the longevity of the positions.  What are the similar drops of all players in that age bracket.  Are the changes significantly different than the control non-ACL patients.

 

The number of high school and college ACL tears that then go on to be successful and high out put NFL players makes me question the studies.  Guy like Willis McGahee had his knee destroyed in college and came back to have a 10 year career with multiple PB and other honors.  
 

The difference is if that same knee injury happened in his 6th year of pro football and cost him time - his 3 year outlook would be bad because he already was approaching or past his prime.

 

We will see, but as was stated in the other thread - the number of successful college and high school players that have overcome ACL tears has gone up dramatically and the same is true of young NFL players.  Where Tre’ White will fall will depend upon his own recovery, but just the advancement in rehab with 0 weight under water treadmills has allowed for faster and better recovery from ACL injuries.

 

 

[HamptonBillsfan]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

And there also is a chance that he does return to form.

 

Every player is different, so the only thing we can do is wait and see.

 

This year I am prepared for him to be average since it usually takes a year to get back to where they were.

 

After that, I am more in a wait and see mode.

If he's only average, Beane better get some veteran depth because the thought of Jackson and the rookie against the receiving corps on our schedule(Miami,LA, Minn., Cleveland, Pittsburgh and KC etc) doesn't inspire confidence. 

[Punching Bag]

 

Buffalo Bills HOF RB Thurman Thomas played entire career with partially torn ACL

 

Quote

When a fan asked how long Thomas played with the torn ACL, Thomas responded by saying he played the rest of his career with the injury. He'd later add that his ACL was about 85 percent torn.

 

[Chuck Schick]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I understand not reading a post that you're not interested in. 

 

I do not understand not reading the post, but then still commenting on it.

 

The studies are from 2022, 2019 and 2017. All recent. Nothing old. All relevant today.

Even though the first  study you reference was released fairly recently (2017), the actual data comes from 10ish years ago:

 

Methods:

Thirty-eight NFL defensive players with a history of ACLR from 2006 to 2012 were identified. For each injured player, a matched control player was identified.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

This post may draw some knee-jerk reactions of anger, but please know that it wasn't written to make anyone upset. Unfortunately, the topic is naturally upsetting - We all love Tre White and want him to return to his typical dominant play. To that end, I've done some research on ACL injuries in NFL players. The common refrain from NFL fans is that ACL injuries are no longer the career-ender they once were, and I wanted to see if that was true. Unfortunately, research on players returning post ACL surgery is not optimistic, even in the modern era.

 

One study, Return to Play and Decreased Performance After Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction in National Football League Defensive Players published in the The American Journal of Sports Medicine (2017), shows that:

 

• After the season of surgery, athletes in the ACLR group who returned to play decreased to 57% games started and 2.38 ± 1.24 solo tackles per game, while their matched controls suffered no significant decreases. (link)

And the result of the study indicated rather succinctly:

 

• Players who successfully returned were above-average NFL players before their injury but comparatively average after their return.

 

Another study, this one published in 2022, titled Return to Play and Performance After Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction in National Football League Players shows similar results. Published in the Orthopaedic Journal of Sports Medicine, the results stated:

 

• Of the eligible players, only 28.5% (n = 59/207) remained in the league 3 years postinjury. Within the first 3 years postinjury, players played in fewer games (8.7 vs 13.7; P < .0001), started in fewer games (3.0 vs 8.3; P < .0001), had lower AVs (1.5 vs 4.3; P < .0001), and had decreased snap counts (259.0 vs 619.0; P < .0001) compared with preinjury. (link)

 

The conclusion of the study is no better:

 

• The study findings indicated that NFL players are severely affected by ACL injury, with only 28.5% still active in the league 3 years after the injury. Running backs, defensive linemen, and linebackers performed the worst after injury. v

 

Lastly, a 2019 study that examined ACL tears in Wide Receivers (I used this study because the WR position requires similar impact on the ACL). This study is titled 

Decreased Performance and Return to Play Following Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction in National Football League Wide Receivers. Published in The Arthroscopy Sports Medicine and Rehabilitation issue, the study found that:

 

• When we compared the tear group with the matched control cohort, players with ACL tears ended their careers on an average of 1.9 seasons earlier (2.2 vs 4.1 seasons, P < .001) and also played less than half the number of games (25.5 vs 56.6 games, P = .001), respectively. Those that RTP also saw decreased performance statistics in targets (353.6 vs 125.2 P < .001), receptions (208.0 vs 74.4, P = .001), receiving yards (2691.0 vs 987.9, P = .001), and touchdowns (17.4 vs 6.2, P = .002). (link)
• One potential good tidibt: "no significant differences were present between preinjury and postinjury in-game in all in-game statistics for the wide receiver"

 

Overall Conclusion? Concern.

 

There is a legitimate chance that Tre never returns to the level of play he showed in 2021 and prior, and there is a potential that his career will be shorter than we once thought.

 

 

 

There are way too many variables to come up with this conclusion.  You have to breakdown whether it was a great starter, average starter, a guy who wasn't good enough to stay in the league after a few years, a guy already declining in his career, the age of the injury, the level/dedication of the rehab they went through etc....

 

Here is a list of players that tore their ACL and had fine careers after:

- Tom Brady

- Gronk

- Thomas Davis tore his 3 times.

- Von Miller

- Eric Berry

- Tyrann Mathieu

- Adrian Peterson

- Reggie Wayne

- Julian Edelman

- Darren Sproles

- Dalvin Cook

- Allen Robinson

- Darrell Revis

- Willis McGahee

- Nick Bosa posted 15.5 sacks a year after his ACL tear.

 

This is just the NFL and many of these I had to check from years back.  There are still other athletes from other sports that recovered well.

There are too many factors to have a legit conclusion.

 

Jameson Williams tore his ACL in January (4 months ago) and was still a top 15 pick.

[RiotAct]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

Neither do I.

 

Tre White WILL be back. The question is how much of his ability will be back.

yep.  Even if the answer is, say, 90%… I still feel pretty damned good about our defense.

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

Neither do I.

 

Tre White WILL be back. The question is how much of his ability will be back.

yep.  Even if the answer is, say, 90%… I still feel pretty damned good about our defense.

[HappyDays]

I doubt the authors of these studies would agree with the way you're using their data. Scientific studies are great for finding patterns in groups, not for predicting behavior in individuals. It's like how people used numbers to show that Josh Allen wouldn't succeed as a QB, without factoring in any of the context of his individual situation. Everything I know about Tre White the person and about the Bills medical staff tells me that he will be totally fine. Maybe not 100% right away. But nothing to be concerned about long term.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

If he's only average, Beane better get some veteran depth because the thought of Jackson and the rookie against the receiving corps on our schedule(Miami,LA, Minn., Cleveland, Pittsburgh and KC etc) doesn't inspire confidence. 

 

How do you know Elam won't be as good as White as a rookie?

 

DB is the last of my concerns on this team. The coaches seem to play a system that both gets everything possible out of these players and makes it easy for them to step in with little drop off when need be.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Your sentiment seems to be that an opinion that is negative in nature can not be rooted in fact or reality and that the positive side of the possibility must be the correct answer. I guess we differ in that respect. I follow whichever way the evidence points me. 

 

 

Agreed. Thats sad.

 

 

 

Currently I am probably at the worst point in my mental health in many years, so I try to find as many positive things as I can. 

 

With a CB, speed, agility and quickness are vital and I definitely can see how a post-surgery Tre could be reduced in effectiveness... but I want to believe that he will buck the odds you presented!

[beerme1]

I mean I remember Sam Cowart. Never the same guy after and had a shortened career and probably fits those stats that the op threw out there. 

That was then, this is now. Surgical techniques have changed, assumedly for the better. Sam Cowart was a thick guy with a lot of pressure on his legs. 

Tre Dey Ain't Dat and I like his chances of coming back strong. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

He tore his ACL, there is obvious concern.  Top level players seem to return to form lately. ACL injuries have been rehabbed differently lately. More aggressive rehab has been key.

 

Tre will return but we won’t know how he’ll play until it happens. 

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, Einstein said:

This post may draw some knee-jerk reactions of anger, but please know that it wasn't written to make anyone upset. Unfortunately, the topic is naturally upsetting - We all love Tre White and want him to return to his typical dominant play. To that end, I've done some research on ACL injuries in NFL players. The common refrain from NFL fans is that ACL injuries are no longer the career-ender they once were, and I wanted to see if that was true. Unfortunately, research on players returning post ACL surgery is not optimistic, even in the modern era.

 

One study, Return to Play and Decreased Performance After Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction in National Football League Defensive Players published in the The American Journal of Sports Medicine (2017), shows that:

 

• After the season of surgery, athletes in the ACLR group who returned to play decreased to 57% games started and 2.38 ± 1.24 solo tackles per game, while their matched controls suffered no significant decreases. (link)

And the result of the study indicated rather succinctly:

 

• Players who successfully returned were above-average NFL players before their injury but comparatively average after their return.

 

Another study, this one published in 2022, titled Return to Play and Performance After Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction in National Football League Players shows similar results. Published in the Orthopaedic Journal of Sports Medicine, the results stated:

 

• Of the eligible players, only 28.5% (n = 59/207) remained in the league 3 years postinjury. Within the first 3 years postinjury, players played in fewer games (8.7 vs 13.7; P < .0001), started in fewer games (3.0 vs 8.3; P < .0001), had lower AVs (1.5 vs 4.3; P < .0001), and had decreased snap counts (259.0 vs 619.0; P < .0001) compared with preinjury. (link)

 

The conclusion of the study is no better:

 

• The study findings indicated that NFL players are severely affected by ACL injury, with only 28.5% still active in the league 3 years after the injury. Running backs, defensive linemen, and linebackers performed the worst after injury. v

 

 

 

 

There is indeed a legitimate chance he returns with decreased performance.

 

But you're leaving out a bunch of things from those studies.

 

First, the gears of science grind slowly. Even the 2022 study you refer to was looking at data from 2013 - 2018. And things seem to have gotten better since then. That's anecdotal, but appears real. People weren't really saying the same things nearly as much back in 2018.

 

Second, at the bottom it says RBs, DLs and LBs performed the worst after injury. QBs the best. CBs take a lot less impact than RBs, DLs and LBs. CBs are not among the most affected positions.

 

More, the figures they're comparing are affected by losing time after the injury and by the inclusion of the figures from the first year back. There does indeed seem to lasting effects the year after. So you'd expect that to affect both games played in the first three years back and average performance in those same first three years.

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Brady tore his ACL/MCL, missed 2008.

 

But then again, he drinks TB12 smoothies... 

[Chandler#81]

6 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I understand not reading a post that you're not interested in. 

 

I do not understand not reading the post, but then still commenting on it.

 

The studies are from 2022, 2019 and 2017. All recent. Nothing old. All relevant today.

Part of it, frankly, is the repetitive negativity of your short posting history. You may well not understand it, but I’m sure many here do. I entered into it fully expecting another ‘anti-Einstein’ perspective and was surprised by a qualitative narrative with sources.
You reap what you sew 🤷‍♂️

btw, I’m optimistic Tre’ will return good as new!👍🤞

Edited May 25, 2022 by Chandler#81

[Utah John]

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I understand not reading a post that you're not interested in. 

 

I do not understand not reading the post, but then still commenting on it.

 

The studies are from 2022, 2019 and 2017. All recent. Nothing old. All relevant today.

The 2022 study's result is that players only lasted about 3 years post-injury.  I'll bet 3-4 years is the mode of the distribution of career length (mode being the most frequently observed result).  Since most of the players who tore ACLs had already played a few years this is not too disappointing a result.

 

The other studies are from 2017 and 2019, and with the advances in sports medicine over the past several years, there's reason to hope that results for current players will be better.

 

So, caution and prudence dictate that the Bills prepare for a no-Tre start to the season, and even after he does return, not to expect the same level of performance.  So you know what?  Maybe opposing QBs will try to throw near him, and his INTs will go up.  

[Matt_In_NH]

Do these studies take into account guys who are kind of on the fringe, on rosters, contribute in some way, tear their ACL and then ends up killing their career?  Sometimes guys are on the last year of their deal and a team opts to go with a healthy guy the next year and the player is stuck rehabbing themselves.  I think that scenario may skew some of the findings vs say All Pro's who have the teams full resources in play during rehab.

[Mickey]

Are all ACL injuries the same? This was a non-contact ACL injury, do these studies differentiate between contact and non-contact ACL injuries. Is there a reason to not differentiate? How about other factors such as age at time of injury? Prior injury to the same knee? I am no expert on medical issues but these seam like reasonable questions. 

[Royale with Cheese]

8 hours ago, beerme1 said:

I mean I remember Sam Cowart. Never the same guy after and had a shortened career and probably fits those stats that the op threw out there. 

That was then, this is now. Surgical techniques have changed, assumedly for the better. Sam Cowart was a thick guy with a lot of pressure on his legs. 

Tre Dey Ain't Dat and I like his chances of coming back strong. 

Cowart tore his Achilles.  That was much more of a devastating injury 20 years ago.

[Beerball]

12 hours ago, Einstein said:

This post may draw some knee-jerk reactions of anger, but please know that it wasn't written to make anyone upset. Unfortunately, the topic is naturally upsetting - We all love Tre White and want him to return to his typical dominant play. To that end, I've done some research on ACL injuries in NFL players. The common refrain from NFL fans is that ACL injuries are no longer the career-ender they once were, and I wanted to see if that was true. Unfortunately, research on players returning post ACL surgery is not optimistic, even in the modern era.

 

One study, Return to Play and Decreased Performance After Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction in National Football League Defensive Players published in the The American Journal of Sports Medicine (2017), shows that:

 

• After the season of surgery, athletes in the ACLR group who returned to play decreased to 57% games started and 2.38 ± 1.24 solo tackles per game, while their matched controls suffered no significant decreases. (link)

And the result of the study indicated rather succinctly:

 

• Players who successfully returned were above-average NFL players before their injury but comparatively average after their return.

 

Another study, this one published in 2022, titled Return to Play and Performance After Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction in National Football League Players shows similar results. Published in the Orthopaedic Journal of Sports Medicine, the results stated:

 

• Of the eligible players, only 28.5% (n = 59/207) remained in the league 3 years postinjury. Within the first 3 years postinjury, players played in fewer games (8.7 vs 13.7; P < .0001), started in fewer games (3.0 vs 8.3; P < .0001), had lower AVs (1.5 vs 4.3; P < .0001), and had decreased snap counts (259.0 vs 619.0; P < .0001) compared with preinjury. (link)

 

The conclusion of the study is no better:

 

• The study findings indicated that NFL players are severely affected by ACL injury, with only 28.5% still active in the league 3 years after the injury. Running backs, defensive linemen, and linebackers performed the worst after injury. v

 

Lastly, a 2019 study that examined ACL tears in Wide Receivers (I used this study because the WR position requires similar impact on the ACL). This study is titled 

Decreased Performance and Return to Play Following Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction in National Football League Wide Receivers. Published in The Arthroscopy Sports Medicine and Rehabilitation issue, the study found that:

 

• When we compared the tear group with the matched control cohort, players with ACL tears ended their careers on an average of 1.9 seasons earlier (2.2 vs 4.1 seasons, P < .001) and also played less than half the number of games (25.5 vs 56.6 games, P = .001), respectively. Those that RTP also saw decreased performance statistics in targets (353.6 vs 125.2 P < .001), receptions (208.0 vs 74.4, P = .001), receiving yards (2691.0 vs 987.9, P = .001), and touchdowns (17.4 vs 6.2, P = .002). (link)
• One potential good tidibt: "no significant differences were present between preinjury and postinjury in-game in all in-game statistics for the wide receiver"

 

Overall Conclusion? Concern.

 

There is a legitimate chance that Tre never returns to the level of play he showed in 2021 and prior, and there is a potential that his career will be shorter than we once thought.

 

 

Study from 2006-2012 and you quote it here? I had a knee reconstruction including ACL in 1975, why don't you go back that far to make the numbers say what you want them to?

[eball]

13 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

I've also  pounded this drum for a while because

 

…I’m a troll.

[Spiderweb]

13 hours ago, Einstein said:

This post may draw some knee-jerk reactions of anger, but please know that it wasn't written to make anyone upset. Unfortunately, the topic is naturally upsetting - We all love Tre White and want him to return to his typical dominant play. To that end, I've done some research on ACL injuries in NFL players. The common refrain from NFL fans is that ACL injuries are no longer the career-ender they once were, and I wanted to see if that was true. Unfortunately, research on players returning post ACL surgery is not optimistic, even in the modern era.

 

One study, Return to Play and Decreased Performance After Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction in National Football League Defensive Players published in the The American Journal of Sports Medicine (2017), shows that:

 

• After the season of surgery, athletes in the ACLR group who returned to play decreased to 57% games started and 2.38 ± 1.24 solo tackles per game, while their matched controls suffered no significant decreases. (link)

And the result of the study indicated rather succinctly:

 

• Players who successfully returned were above-average NFL players before their injury but comparatively average after their return.

 

Another study, this one published in 2022, titled Return to Play and Performance After Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction in National Football League Players shows similar results. Published in the Orthopaedic Journal of Sports Medicine, the results stated:

 

• Of the eligible players, only 28.5% (n = 59/207) remained in the league 3 years postinjury. Within the first 3 years postinjury, players played in fewer games (8.7 vs 13.7; P < .0001), started in fewer games (3.0 vs 8.3; P < .0001), had lower AVs (1.5 vs 4.3; P < .0001), and had decreased snap counts (259.0 vs 619.0; P < .0001) compared with preinjury. (link)

 

The conclusion of the study is no better:

 

• The study findings indicated that NFL players are severely affected by ACL injury, with only 28.5% still active in the league 3 years after the injury. Running backs, defensive linemen, and linebackers performed the worst after injury. v

 

Lastly, a 2019 study that examined ACL tears in Wide Receivers (I used this study because the WR position requires similar impact on the ACL). This study is titled 

Decreased Performance and Return to Play Following Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction in National Football League Wide Receivers. Published in The Arthroscopy Sports Medicine and Rehabilitation issue, the study found that:

 

• When we compared the tear group with the matched control cohort, players with ACL tears ended their careers on an average of 1.9 seasons earlier (2.2 vs 4.1 seasons, P < .001) and also played less than half the number of games (25.5 vs 56.6 games, P = .001), respectively. Those that RTP also saw decreased performance statistics in targets (353.6 vs 125.2 P < .001), receptions (208.0 vs 74.4, P = .001), receiving yards (2691.0 vs 987.9, P = .001), and touchdowns (17.4 vs 6.2, P = .002). (link)
• One potential good tidibt: "no significant differences were present between preinjury and postinjury in-game in all in-game statistics for the wide receiver"

 

Overall Conclusion? Concern.

 

There is a legitimate chance that Tre never returns to the level of play he showed in 2021 and prior, and there is a potential that his career will be shorter than we once thought.

 

 

I have no reason to doubt any of this, but I remain grateful that Thurman Thomas was an outlier in an earlier time when surgical techniques were not of today's standards. I think he had a pretty good, lengthy career as a RB (HOF).

[4merper4mer]

12 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I understand not reading a post that you're not interested in. 

 

I do not understand not reading the post, but then still commenting on it.

 

The studies are from 2022, 2019 and 2017. All recent. Nothing old. All relevant today.

The studies may have been from those years but that is completely irrelevant if the injuries were from longer back.  The 2017 study may have included injuries from 1978 but certainly did not include injuries from after 2017.

[Punching Bag]

5 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

I have no reason to doubt any of this, but I remain grateful that Thurman Thomas was an outlier in an earlier time when surgical techniques were not of today's standards. I think he had a pretty good, lengthy career as a RB (HOF).

 

Thurman was a unicorn.  He never got surgery on it just using a knee brace his entire career.  Posted this earlier in thread.

 

Buffalo Bills HOF RB Thurman Thomas played entire career with partially torn ACL

Quote

When a fan asked how long Thomas played with the torn ACL, Thomas responded by saying he played the rest of his career with the injury. He'd later add that his ACL was about 85 percent torn.

 

[JellyBeane]

Obviously the ACL injury has grounded the Tre White Goalie Academy---Aaron Dell has suffered with the lack of proper coaching

[jletha]

14 hours ago, Einstein said:

The study findings indicated that NFL players are severely affected by ACL injury, with only 28.5% still active in the league 3 years after the injury. Running backs, defensive linemen, and linebackers performed the worst after injury. v

 

Maybe its in the study but what were the odds most of these guys were out of the league in 3 years anyway? To me youd have to compare All-Pro level CBs to get a good study. You cant loop all NFLers into it.

[T master]

14 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Pretty sobering.

 

my only response would be to hope that these stats reflect more of the “average” NFL player. A lot of the NFL “elite” tore their ACL’s and went onto have productive careers. Von Miller and Darrell Revis both come to mind. 

 

Guys like those you mentioned are different they have that it factor & i feel Tre has that to being elite not only in his play but in how he takes care of & listens to what his body tells him and his mentality .

 

I think he may struggle a bit this year & could very well not be the same as he was last year before the injury but i think he will get there the more he plays the mental aspect has to be very tough once he realizes his knee is fine he should be good .

 

My daughter had both knees done in high school (which i know is different) but when she came back was very tentative until a coach told her play like she use to & that her knee is fine & even stronger than before after that given her trust in this coach she started playing harder & came back to be her self .

 

I think that could be the same with Tre he will have to mentally realize his knee will do what he needs it to & when he realizes that he'll be fine but that could take some time .

[uticaclub]

It's not just the ACL, word there is meniscus damage and he wont be ready to return until october/november, almost a full calendar year.

 

Not to mention this is the last year with Hyde & Poyer over top. 
 

Championship windows close fast & we pissed away 2020 & 2021

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by uticaclub

[dje85]

6 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

It's not just the ACL, word there is meniscus damage and he wont be ready to return until october/november, almost a full calendar year.

 

Not to mention this is the last year with Hyde & Poyer over top. 
 

Championship windows close fast & we pissed away 2020 & 2021

 

 

If only we had an elite qb and offense so we didn't have to rely only on our defense to win every game we play.. Oh wait..

[North Buffalo]

On 5/24/2022 at 8:35 PM, Ethan in Portland said:

I'm not disputing the facts of these studies. I would just add that the overall career length for all NFL players is less than 3 years. So you are taking a player that tears his ACL, then not even adjusting for how long they have already been in the league and then saying only 28% are still playing after 3 years.  White is only 27. If he tore his ACL at age 31 it might be a whole different story. In fact he might not be in the league at age 34 even without an ACL tear.  

And not to be too harsh. But I kind of don't care about three years from now.  I want to win now. So just be smart and not bring him back too early.  Him playing in Dec/Jan/Feb is far more important than Sept.

 

Agree with above poster as well, he never had elite speed.  As long as he has adequate speed he should be fine.  Long term he could be your replacement for Hyde in 2024.  

Speed with an ACL is not the big issue, it confidence in quick twitch recovery to the ball ie cutting ability... it takes time, strengthening, flexibility and burst... Strength comes back quickest, flexibility and burst and confidence along with that take time... each little pain jab often associated with these type of injuries affect confidence even though its likely nothing and each athlete is different... plus ligaments are low blood flow tissues and blood carries cells that carry away (actually eat) damaged tissues and others are embryonic "repair" cells.  Working out stimulates this whole process if done correctly and speeds the healing process but it still takes time.  We will see... a great unknown.

Edited May 27, 2022 by North Buffalo

[Solomon Grundy]

Was really hoping that Kyle Fuller would have been an option, but he signed with Ravens 

[blacklabel]

Schmeh. I dunno, I guess it's kind of weird to me that fans spend time going over this stuff. I won't say they obsess over it because that'll just bring a defensive "it's not obsessed!" or whatever. 

 

Seems like guys come back from tough injuries better than ever these days. I'm certain they've drawn up a rehab plan that makes use of the most advanced and modern techniques used today. 

 

Might he struggle some right off his return? Sure. But we got some folks on here talking about moving him to free safety lol. 

 

The kid is an elite athlete getting the absolute best treatment in sports medicine, and on top of that he's a highly determined and confident person. He's gonna be driven to get back to the level he feels he can perform at. I think he'll be alright. 

[Nextmanup]

For me, this falls under the heading "let's see how it plays out."
 

 

[HamptonBillsfan]

15 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

How do you know Elam won't be as good as White as a rookie?

 

DB is the last of my concerns on this team. The coaches seem to play a system that both gets everything possible out of these players and makes it easy for them to step in with little drop off when need be.

OK, expecting quality corner play from a rookie usually comes from fans who don't realize there's a learning curve in the NFL. Tell me about getting everything out of depth dbs when they got lit up by KC with everything on the line. Love your optimism though.

[machine gun kelly]

19 hours ago, The Jerk said:

Hes gonna blow em away.

 

Everyday is Tre day, ya dig?

Thanks for you’re neverending fun quotes.

 

Tre will be fine.  An ACL is not the same as the repairs are light years ahead of even 5 years ago and even better from 10 years ago.

 

AP came back in 6 months and had banner years.  He played until late 30’s.  Besides not every ACL is the same.  He’s on pace per McD and that guy will 10 years from now be a HOF coach.  Not now as too short, but he’ll hook his wagon for at least the 12-15 years to Allen.  You have a great GM, and a great QB, and you become a winner.  McBeane will be a winning tandem for a decade.  These guys will be the next Tomlinson and company crew.  I’ve always respected the Steelers culture, and believe the Pegulas know how to stay out of the way and even though

politicians hate it, (NYC Democrats) have secured our franchise here for the next 30 years.

 

What more can you ask for in a team.  Let’s not forget this team has the state of the art training facility and staff as

they value health and why we don’t have a lot of soft tissue injuries like many teams.  We are so very fortunate.  Lastly, Tre has been here per Sal and Vic almost all off season  with the staff as he knows his best rehab is with our guys.

 

He’ll be fine.  He may have an adjustment in September, but by October he’ll be back to form.  He injured last November.  By October, that will be 11 months.

 

Guys stop with the overthinking and over worrying.  Stop looking for everything that will go wrong to be right and have faith.  Wrex and Maroone are not our coaches.  Neither is Skeletor, or Kay Stephenson.

[Big Turk]

52 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

OK, expecting quality corner play from a rookie usually comes from fans who don't realize there's a learning curve in the NFL. Tell me about getting everything out of depth dbs when they got lit up by KC with everything on the line. Love your optimism though.

 

Please...save it for the breeze...your takes are old and smell funky like cottage cheese.

 

We see quality play from rookie DBs every year...stop acting like it's something that never happens.

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Big Turk

[PonyBoy]

19 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I read enough, in my opinion.  How do we know how injuries from 2022 are going to turn out? Useless data. They are much better at the surgery and PT than just 5 years ago in 2017. 

 

It’s a legit concern that he might not be ready early, but it took an Eyore to start a thread implying he might be out of the league or never be “himself”. He will be back, it’s just a matter of when. 

 

.

I used to know a guy named Eyore spelled Ihor. He was a donkey too..😀

[1ManRaid]

We've had this exact thread before.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Cooper Kupp tore his ACL in November a couple years ago and didn’t miss a game the following season. No contact injury. Very similar injury and time table to White.

 

This is why each individual injury is different. Don’t look at stats because it’s pointless. 
 

But here’s a feel good video for those worried.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede