GunnerBill Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 I am 100% against a lottery. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: So drafting Tua was evidence of Ross's "tank" scheme? lol, come on. Nearly every predraft ranking had Tua at #1 or #2, Herbert at 3. Tua's record is 13-8, Herbert's is 15-17. Hold on. Did Flores make the claim that Ross wanted him to tank every season or just the initial one, so as to get a shot at Tua? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 hour ago, RobbRiddick said: I think there are definite arguments for both. The problem with the draft currently is it requires zero skill or effort to get the number 1 pick. You're being rewarded for being bad. And if you're a truly terrible team with an awful front office the players drafted are often ruined by it. look at all the QBs who have come out and taken a beating for 2 or 3 years and end up a shell of their former selves. FA and the salary cap are great for parity, but those require skill from your scouting team and your GM to juggle all the numbers. You are rewarded for being bad because they want you to be GOOD. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) In general, eliminating an incentive for teams to intentionally lose is probably a good thing for the sport, so yes, I would support some type of draft lottery. The trick would be engineering the system so that there is really NO incentive to tank. I don't like the NBA system for that reason, b/c there are too many good football prospects in each draft. If you know the worst you can do is draft 5th, you might still tank. In the NHL, that's probably good enough to prevent taking, b/c in some drafts the drop off from 1, 2, or 3, to the rest of the draft is quite large. Not so in the NFL. But overall, yes, the league should go to some type of system and I think they will soon. Edited February 5, 2022 by Nextmanup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 No good for the NFL. You can have a 9 or 10 win team miss the playoffs because they are in a tough division and end up with the #1 pick. Throws off the balance in the league and it will destroy the parity the NFL has worked so hard to achieve. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 2 hours ago, RobbRiddick said: Well, the advantage with that would be giving the NFL yet another opportunity to create an 'event'. Imagine the weekend before the Super Bowl, instead of all the pro bowl trash they could have a big event where different NFL legends come up and pick team names out of a hat, similar to what FIFA does when they announce the groups for the World Cup. And it would create some interesting trade situations (a team like Buffalo getting the 1st pick in a draft where there's a big name QB expected to go number 1 - they could make a killing trading for a QB hungry team). But on the other hand the minute the Patriots got picked out first we'd all be accusing Kraft of bribing the Goodell with cash and Asian hookers to fix it for him Edit: I missed the part in the OP about non-playoff teams being involved. I say throw everyone in the lottery! The draft is already an event. It’s fine the way it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 44 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said: No good for the NFL. You can have a 9 or 10 win team miss the playoffs because they are in a tough division and end up with the #1 pick. Throws off the balance in the league and it will destroy the parity the NFL has worked so hard to achieve. isn’t the way to account for that to change the odds based on record, or narrow the lottery group to those with x wins or fewer? Not saying I would support the lottery, but there are measures in place that could still preserve parity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl2526 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 This year, more than some, there wouldn't be much point in a lottery. A number of pundits doubt that there are any prospects even worthy of the #1 overall pick, certainly no QBs. Most mocks have a defensive end going #1 overall, but there is not even unananimity about which one. I don't think #25 is a bad place to be at all this year. The Bills can get a good player and not have to pay nearly the money required early in the first round for contracts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weatherman Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 3 hours ago, Doc said: I doubt it would do much to prevent tanking. Agree, it hasn’t stopped the Sabres from tanking the last 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern_Bills Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 I hope they never go to a lottery. If they do it wouldn't change a ton but I'd just rather it the way it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyoAZBillfan Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 No. Bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 I think once King Tom retires, he should just dictate what team chooses and when. Sort of like a bad Medieval Times dinner show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Doc said: Hold on. Did Flores make the claim that Ross wanted him to tank every season or just the initial one, so as to get a shot at Tua? I thought you were dragging the Tua pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 2 hours ago, BarleyNY said: I think they’ve avoided using a lottery because of optics. Even if it’s run completely fairly there will be cases when it looks like it was fixed. Still, your point that it would be another event is a good one. I can see the NFL wanting that revenue - and after the Flores suit (with evidence of tanking) they might not have much of a choice anyway. The only way it will appear fair is if it is run by an outside agency with no connection to NFL, NFLPA, former players or advertisers. Hard to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 My first reaction the the Miami and Cleveland allegations were that a lottery is necessary Thinking about it though. No. I'm not sure tanking has ever worked. There is still a lot of luck involved, and more often than not, the 1OA player is not the best nfl player chosen. Even if it works there is a lot of luck involved. Look at Andrew luck and the Colts. If you go "full tank", you are digging a deeper hole to build out of. I like the bills for the last Tyrod and allens rookie year and flores' dolphins. Lose some position in the draft, but building a competitive culture and learning how to win seems to be more valuable 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 22 minutes ago, Limeaid said: The only way it will appear fair is if it is run by an outside agency with no connection to NFL, NFLPA, former players or advertisers. Hard to do. I agree that would help, but thinking about the NBA Draft I’m sure people would still think there was tampering regardless of how fair it actually was. With the kind of money that is at stake, it’s not like some owners wouldn’t be willing to throw some illicit money at getting their QB. As a rule these people are far from angels. The NBA has examples that look too good to be true: Ewing to NY, LeBron to Cleveland and the Magic getting Shaq and then winning the lottery again the following year despite almost no chance of doing so. I think Joe Burrow to Cincy would have raised some eyebrows if a lottery would have been involved. Ditto if Pittsburgh or NE were to win - or even just get a high pick - right when they needed it to replace their HOF QBs. The NFL cares about looking clean, fair and unbiased much more than they care about being those things. The league sweeps a lot of dirt under the rug. Why invite scrutiny in one more place and give billionaire owners another avenue where some might cheat the system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Absolutely not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaus Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 My first reaction is to say that the Lions prove being bad and getting the first pick doesn't help the organization, but I don't think the Lions were trying to tank, I just think they have a dysfunctional organization and if you cannot win with Stafford, Johnson and Suh as three pillars of your team. But then giving it some more thought, and thinking about what happens to the W-L record of other teams that play the team tanking, I don't think a lottery is the worst idea. Sure you would still get some teams who tank, but it might be a bit more rare. Yes the Sabres show you can still tank in a lottery system draft, but when you draw number 2 in the McDavid draft it shows that it might not work. We can also throw out the fact that there have been a significant #1 overall picks at QB to lead teams to the Superbowl, this year a pair of them (and then Manning, Elway, Bledsoe, Aikman, Young, Plunkett, Bradshaw.....) so getting that number 1 pick can turn an organization around, and I think tanking shouldn't be rewarded with trips to the SB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 5 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said: With all the talk about intentional tanking in Miami and Cleveland (stemming from the Flores lawsuit), should the NFL change its draft format? Jason McCourtey alluded to the NFL doing a lottery similar to the NBA, where basically the non-playoff teams go into the lottery for their draft position. The worst record team is guaranteed no worse than the 5th draft pick. Would such a system work in the NFL and be better for competitive balance and anti-tanking? not really… in nba and nhl there isn’t as much high end talent. If you look at the draft history the best star players tend to be top 5 picks. You can get some very good players elsewhere in the top 20. After that there isn’t certainty. in the nfl— in part due to many more positions to choose from— you don’t have the talent drop off. You can get Srar players outside the top 20 easily. You see your 2nd and 3rd rounders make an impact that season. an argument fir a lottery in the nfl can be tied to the wide difference in schedukes of teams. In nhl and nba e ery team plays each other 2 ti es at least so over the course of a season the better teams woukd emerge under notmal conditions. In both leagues you can get injuries that knock out star players fir a season so a team can fall. in the nfl two teams can have only 2 common opponents if they didn’t play each other. On top of that you have home-road differences even in common opponents. Comparing two teams at the same record is very difficult because of the differences in opponents. If they do a lottery it coukd follow some early styles where a team is able to move up at most say 8 spots in the draft no matter where they draft…even if a playoff team. you can have a 3rd place prize of moving up 5 spots, 2nd place of 7 spots, and1st place of 10 spots. But if you choose to do this you can win again for the next 4 drafts. This lottery affects traded picks so the acquiring team picking up this pick, the move up applies to their team. Teams with multiple wins in same draft can only move one if they choose to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigduke6 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 im not against a lottery, until it bites our team in the ass like it did the Sabres. i dont see this being a Bills problem for quite some time hopefully, but still. Lottery doesnt prevent tanking imo. teams will still do it just for the chance to land a "generational" talent. if they get unlucky they still draft high, if they get lucky boom jackpot, mbe. picks dont always work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said: isn’t the way to account for that to change the odds based on record, or narrow the lottery group to those with x wins or fewer? Not saying I would support the lottery, but there are measures in place that could still preserve parity. Yes NBA and NHL give the worse team a bigger chance more balls in the bingo machine for the worst teams 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: I thought you were dragging the Tua pick Not for the purposes of this discussion (despite their records, Herbert is the far better QB and this isn't even debatable). What I'm saying is that it's entirely plausible that Ross wanted Flores to tank in his first season so as to get a shot at Tua in the upcoming draft, not every season that he was HC. And also that Flores didn't listen to Ross because he won games late in his first year and finished with an almost .500 record overall. Edited February 5, 2022 by Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Yes. Like a bottom 4 or 6 lottery. People put too much importance of draft spot. How many years did we read people on here hoping we would lose so we can move up couple spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 57 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said: Yes NBA and NHL give the worse team a bigger chance more balls in the bingo machine for the worst teams New England already conducting studies on a 'weighted' draft lottery...their balls are weighted heavier. 😡 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 6 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said: With all the talk about intentional tanking in Miami and Cleveland (stemming from the Flores lawsuit), should the NFL change its draft format? Jason McCourtey alluded to the NFL doing a lottery similar to the NBA, where basically the non-playoff teams go into the lottery for their draft position. The worst record team is guaranteed no worse than the 5th draft pick. Would such a system work in the NFL and be better for competitive balance and anti-tanking? I hate the lotteries in NBA, NHL. I will forever suspect that the NBA rigged their first draft lottery to put Patrick Ewing in NY. The whole point of the draft is to help the worst teams get better. Anything that allows a very weak team to fall more than a few spots in the draft due to a lottery is not working in that direction. Honestly, for fans of bad teams the quest for high picks is entertaining in itself. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donuts and Doritos Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Leave the draft alone. Punish the offenders badly enough & no one will "tank" again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 7 hours ago, st pete gogolak said: It's going to happen. The Flores lawsuit guarantees it. Maybe there will be a quota system for management position. And, maybe a players quota as well. That knife would cut in reverse for folks of color. (see Bakke vs Univ of California) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaoloBillsFanFromItaly Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 I like the wheel, this is the NBA version, of course NFL would have 32 spots. Each team get the 1st overall pick every 32 years, there is no relation with the previous year result. Every team fights for winning, still the draft provides fairness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Instead of a lottery, I would set the draft order after week 12. Then there is no incentive to keep losing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 20 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Instead of a lottery, I would set the draft order after week 12. Then there is no incentive to keep losing. That is a very interesting suggestion. I do however wonder if teams would just tank sooner. I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Lottery is not needed. Make a rule that if a HC or coach is told to tank to report it to the NFL. If not, they can be held culpable too. The person asking for them to tank lifetime ban and if it is the owner, loss of the franchise. Akin to the NCAA death penalty. Just a thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 8 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said: With all the talk about intentional tanking in Miami and Cleveland (stemming from the Flores lawsuit), should the NFL change its draft format? Jason McCourtey alluded to the NFL doing a lottery similar to the NBA, where basically the non-playoff teams go into the lottery for their draft position. The worst record team is guaranteed no worse than the 5th draft pick. Would such a system work in the NFL and be better for competitive balance and anti-tanking? No lotteries don’t work either teams will still tank for more lottery balls. The NFL is the greatest league in the history of sports they don’t need to learn from the dynasty driven NBA no thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoros Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 8 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said: With all the talk about intentional tanking in Miami and Cleveland (stemming from the Flores lawsuit), should the NFL change its draft format? Jason McCourtey alluded to the NFL doing a lottery similar to the NBA, where basically the non-playoff teams go into the lottery for their draft position. The worst record team is guaranteed no worse than the 5th draft pick. Would such a system work in the NFL and be better for competitive balance and anti-tanking? I’d rather take the chance of a team tanking, then trusting the, “randomness” of a lottery. With a lottery, there always will be the worry that lottery draw is manipulated in some way (even with a minimum spot guaranteed). At least the way it is now draft positions are transparent to all. And honestly, you can “tank” by fielding a less experienced team, while also asking them to go out there and do their best to win. Should that not be allowed? One could easily argue they want to develop their young guys by giving them more reps, with an eye towards the future. However, with Miami, we have an owner offering the coach $100k a loss. From the outside looking in, that appears to be a wholly different kind of tanking. Like possibly develop a ***** game plan with bad situational decisions type stuff. I feel like something like that would be so rare, it just needs to be firmly dealt with when it arises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoros Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 43 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Instead of a lottery, I would set the draft order after week 12. Then there is no incentive to keep losing. This would create its own issues. Consider, a fringe playoff team (however could be a weak division’s winner) going on a run from week 13-18 (without a bye, that’s 6 wins). This team would get a nice draft pick, while still being competitive in season, and possibly making the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ControllerOfPlanetX Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 No, just strip Miami of their draft choices for two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 8 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said: With all the talk about intentional tanking in Miami and Cleveland (stemming from the Flores lawsuit), should the NFL change its draft format? Jason McCourtey alluded to the NFL doing a lottery similar to the NBA, where basically the non-playoff teams go into the lottery for their draft position. The worst record team is guaranteed no worse than the 5th draft pick. Would such a system work in the NFL and be better for competitive balance and anti-tanking? I wouldn’t be shocked to see it but I don’t like it. It sounds fine until your favorite team is the one that misses out on the #1 pick. The one consolation as a fan of a terrible team was always a high draft pick. I’m sure they would set up the draft where the team with the worst record can finish no lower than 5 or whatever but still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: New England already conducting studies on a 'weighted' draft lottery...their balls are weighted heavier. 😡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) Lottery systems are just awful. I really don't think tanking is something worth stopping. It doesn't really happen in football to begin with. the past couple of years a team with a shot at a top pick won a meaningless game at the end of the year to ruin their spot. On top of that, the teams that tank seem to use it to benefit themselves directly via adding a critical player like a QB, so what's the harm? The whole point of the NFL draft is to create parity as much as possible, and with the exception of Tom Brady screwing it up, the league does a pretty good job of it compared to other sports. I don't think there's any other sport where it's as critical to have one single great player at a position, more than it is for an NFL team to have an elite quarterback. Due to the NFL's own making of pushing a passing league, it's going to be even more important than ever. If a team wants to lose so they can win later, I say let em. Of course, they won't since the NFL decided to become bedfellows with Vegas. Edited February 5, 2022 by BullBuchanan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 3 hours ago, Doc said: Not for the purposes of this discussion (despite their records, Herbert is the far better QB and this isn't even debatable). What I'm saying is that it's entirely plausible that Ross wanted Flores to tank in his first season so as to get a shot at Tua in the upcoming draft, not every season that he was HC. And also that Flores didn't listen to Ross because he won games late in his first year and finished with an almost .500 record overall. I mean I’m sure Ross did. Who cares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemma Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 I like the status quo, but if they decide to blow it up, just make all of them UFA’s. NFLPA will have their take on what - if anything - should be changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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