starrymessenger Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 The more I see of Bills' management, the more I am impressed by them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 54 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think it pretty much guarantees they are drafting an outside corner early next April. Paying Tre, Taron, Jordan and Micah you are gonna need some cheap labour somewhere. They will do plug and play at CB2 as long as McDermott is here. CBs drafted early are usually athletic man-to-man corners. McDermott doesn't need that at CB2. He just wants someone with football smarts that does his job on every play. I think we may be able to just keep Wallace on a relatively cheap deal for as long as we want. He doesn't have a skill set that many defenses covet, he just happens to be a good fit for the Bills. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 58 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think it pretty much guarantees they are drafting an outside corner early next April. Paying Tre, Taron, Jordan and Micah you are gonna need some cheap labour somewhere. I hope there's a good one available at pick 32. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 58 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think it pretty much guarantees they are drafting an outside corner early next April. Paying Tre, Taron, Jordan and Micah you are gonna need some cheap labour somewhere. I mean maybe, I'm never overly worried about that, McDermott some combination of coaches up/schemes well to cover that area of the team. Seems like we're always having undrafted guys playing well at DB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Another Beane gem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 So happy we locked him up for awhile. Nice extension for a very good slot CB. Importantly we now have two of our three starting CBs locked up long term. That’s huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 12 minutes ago, HappyDays said: They will do plug and play at CB2 as long as McDermott is here. CBs drafted early are usually athletic man-to-man corners. McDermott doesn't need that at CB2. He just wants someone with football smarts that does his job on every play. I think we may be able to just keep Wallace on a relatively cheap deal for as long as we want. He doesn't have a skill set that many defenses covet, he just happens to be a good fit for the Bills. So you may well be right on Levi. I wouldn't agree that all corners drafted early are man corners though. Tre White is a zone guy. Guys who go early usually have some ability to do both, rather than Levi who is strictly a zone guy, but they need some cheap labour at corner IMO. Not necessarily in round 1, but within the first two days of the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: So you may well be right on Levi. I wouldn't agree that all corners drafted early are man corners though. Tre White is a zone guy. Guys who go early usually have some ability to do both, rather than Levi who is strictly a zone guy, but they need some cheap labour at corner IMO. Not necessarily in round 1, but within the first two days of the draft. Tre is a zone guy. But he really excels when he shadows the other team’s #1 WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: Tre is a zone guy. But he really excels when he shadows the other team’s #1 WR. Yes but the Bills still rarely just man him up on that guy. He shadows him by following him to both sides of the field but they are still primarily zone looks. Tre is an elite corner. You don't have to be a man guy to be elite IMO. Tre is a zone guy who can play some man. I still think finding a better starter than Levi is possible (not certain, Levi is better than he gets credit for in our scheme, but possible) in the draft and given Levi is on one year deals at this point they should be looking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 The interesting thing about Taron is he stays in even if a 3rd WR is not in the lineup. Does anyone know of other NCBs doing this "hybrid" job? As for his cost earlier in the year when posters were talking $10M I knew that was way too much. Slot guys pay is going up and the better ones are $8M-$9M now which is more than I realized. Good signing for both parties and the highest priority UFA is signed. Congrat's Taron and good job Beane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Solid signing and I’m happy to be keeping him on. Dude make two huge plays last year at opportune times. As for 8mil per, seems high to me, which means it’s a fair deal. Well deserved. 29 minutes ago, HappyDays said: They will do plug and play at CB2 as long as McDermott is here. CBs drafted early are usually athletic man-to-man corners. McDermott doesn't need that at CB2. He just wants someone with football smarts that does his job on every play. I think we may be able to just keep Wallace on a relatively cheap deal for as long as we want. He doesn't have a skill set that many defenses covet, he just happens to be a good fit for the Bills. I think Levi is gone and we draft his replacement of Dane takes over. I think someone with cap space will take a flier on him and we won’t have the cap to match. Diggs and some other players are going to get paid, and I just don’t think Wallace is a priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: they need some cheap labour at corner IMO. Not necessarily in round 1, but within the first two days of the draft. McDermott's scheme has found success at CB2 from EJ Gaines (6th rounder), Levi Wallace (UDFA), and Dane Jackson (7th rounder). Even Jackson who didn't look very good in training camp or preseason this year played well enough when forced into the lineup against Miami and stopped a 4th down conversion that may have been a TD if he had been out of position. McDermott has a sixth sense for that spot. As long as the player is coachable and knows his role in the defense he'll do fine. There was some player that joined the Patriots for a couple years (I can't remember who) who said the Patriots coaches were telling him things about the opponent other coaches had never told him before. The level of detail given to him put him in position to be more successful than he had ever been. I think McDermott and Frazier are that good with the details, and that is why lower tier guys can still fill less important roles on the defense. For that reason they will never invest heavily in CB2 because they don't need someone that does more than what Levi Wallace can do. It is a position that fans will be clamoring for every single year and every year they will be disappointed that other positions are drafted on day 1 and day 2. Obviously Beane will always draft BPA so if a CB is BPA in rounds 1-3 we will take him and find a role. But it will never be a specific target in the draft until White is getting past his prime. Edited October 9, 2021 by HappyDays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 $8m per and $14m guaranteed. It is a big deal for a nickel, even one as good as Taron. Will be interesting to see what this means for Ed's 5th year option and Tremaine's extension. Expect it means both the vet D ends are gone. We are gonna have a young D line next year. 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: McDermott's scheme has found success at CB2 from EJ Gaines (6th rounder), Levi Wallace (UDFA), and Dane Jackson (7th rounder). Even Jackson who didn't look very good in training camp or preseason this year played well enough when forced into the lineup against Miami and stopped a 4th down conversion that may have been a TD if he had been out of position. McDermott has a sixth sense for that spot. As long as the player is coachable and knows his role in the defense he'll do fine. There was some player that joined the Patriots for a couple years (I can't remember who) who said the Patriots coaches were telling him things about the opponent other coaches had never told him before. The level of detail given to him put him in position to be more successful than he had ever been. I think McDermott and Frazier do that with the lower tier guys on the defense. For that reason they will never invest heavily in CB2 because they don't need someone that does more than what Levi Wallace can do. It is a position that fans will be clamoring for every single year and every year they will be disappointed that other positions are drafted on day 1 and day 2. Obviously Beane will always draft BPA so if a CB is BPA in rounds 1-3 we will take him and find a role. But it will never be a specific target in the draft until White is getting past his prime. Yea not sure I agree. I think the Bills were looking for a corner this past year but it just didn't quite fall in what was a pretty shallow corner class. They are never gonna reach massively just to take a position, that isn't their model. But I expect a corner in the first two days in April (obviously reserve the right to change my mind when I see the strength of the class). Of course maybe they find another day 3 bargain, they might. But I suspect they feel some urgency with Dane not entirely convincing, Levi on a 1 year deal and basically little else on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: $8m per and $14m guaranteed. It is a big deal for a nickel, even one as good as Taron. Will be interesting to see what this means for Ed's 5th year option and Tremaine's extension. Expect it means both the vet D ends are gone. We are gonna have a young D line next year. I think we are going all in on the trenches in the draft next year. We have holes or aging veterans at every spot on both lines except for OT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 2 hours ago, BillsFan130 said: I understand what constitutes drafting well. I wasn't even ripping your post as I more agreeing with you. But I am saying they have a lot of misses. Tremaine Edmunds was not a hit btw. They traded up to get him where they could have drafted Darius Leonard. What is your definition of a lot of mistakes.....just curious 2 hours ago, BillsFan130 said: No I'm not saying that. But I don't think Edmunds is a hit of a draft pick. If he was a good player I would say it was. But my opinion on Edmunds isn't that high, and I think they missed by trading up to get an average player. (in my mind) Passing on Leonard was just the cherry on top for me What a maroon 2 hours ago, NewEra said: No, he hasn’t. He was better in 2019 than in 2020. There may have been factors beyond his control that led to the regression, but don’t lie I think that is fair......I would only say that player development doesnt always fit on a chart and like you say has external factors. You could actually say that about a lot of players at his position over the years. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 (edited) In my opinion.....if a player is a full time starter on your team its a hit. Like Cody Ford....def miss at this point Taron......just reupped....hit Josh....hit Dawkins...hit Oliver...hit EDMUNDS......HIT Edited October 9, 2021 by John from Riverside 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 23 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: What is your definition of a lot of mistakes.....just curious What a maroon I think that is fair......I would only say that player development doesnt always fit on a chart and like you say has external factors. You could actually say that about a lot of players at his position over the years. For sure. That’s why I said there may have been factors that were out of his control that contributed to his regression. He was most certainly had a better season in 2019 than he did in 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: It helps that Levi is on a severely below-market contract. Yes, and next year they very well may end up drafting a 1st round CB to replace him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 28 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: What is your definition of a lot of mistakes.....just curious Trading up for Edmunds I consider a mistake. I get it Edmunds is far from horrible, but if you trade up for someone in the mid 1st round, you want that player to dominate. Trading up for Cody Ford in the early 2nd round was very bad. Using two day two picks on RBs that really aren't that impressive. There are more of course like Harrison Phillips etc. And the jury is still out on a lot of players like Oliver, Knox etc. (Although both looking better this year in year 3 which is a good sign) For the record I think Beane is a good drafter and a very good GM. I was just more responding to a comment and pointed out saying he has some great picks but also has some descent misses. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Great job Beane, hope we still draft a CB somewhere in the 1st three rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukestreetking Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Slightly o/t but "penis is great" and "Johnson extended" has to be Top 5 back-to-back posts in TSW history. Thanks to @Kelly the Dog@HappyDays for making me laugh my ass off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 8 mill a year is is a solid deal. The guys had been steady and consistent which are nice to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 3 hours ago, starrymessenger said: The more I see of Bills' management, the more I am impressed by them. This. From JUMP, McBeane stated clearly we want our guys, grow them and retain them. Amazing, actually.👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Agreed. Draft and develop. This is just another example of these coaches taking the time and effort to develop our young guys and they noticeably improve over the years. Tarpon, Levi, AJ, Bates, Boettger, Siran Neal, and so on. Even Milano wasn’t all world in 2017. How many 4th rounders are begging each year the Bills pick them vs another team that doesn’t have the track record to develop their in house talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 (edited) Tried to tell em early 😄 Pretty cool to read old threads on him and what ppl thought Seriously glad for him and love the extension and timing of it. Another big year,which he's on pace for and we might have had to spend 10 mil a year. Beane strikes again!! Edited October 9, 2021 by JerseyBills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 That's great news! I was worried we could lose him. He's a key part of this defense, so am really glad that he's staying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 5 hours ago, WMDman said: Got a signed jersey of his a few weeks ago, so safe to say I’m glad this happened lol You sure it was him and not the other Johnson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Yes but the Bills still rarely just man him up on that guy. He shadows him by following him to both sides of the field but they are still primarily zone looks. Tre is an elite corner. You don't have to be a man guy to be elite IMO. Tre is a zone guy who can play some man. I still think finding a better starter than Levi is possible (not certain, Levi is better than he gets credit for in our scheme, but possible) in the draft and given Levi is on one year deals at this point they should be looking. You can rest assured that Beane never stops looking 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospector Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 I approve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 My old axiom was that absolutely any topic could get 2 pages. 8 pages!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 3 hours ago, BillsFan130 said: Trading up for Edmunds I consider a mistake. I get it Edmunds is far from horrible, but if you trade up for someone in the mid 1st round, you want that player to dominate. Trading up for Cody Ford in the early 2nd round was very bad. Using two day two picks on RBs that really aren't that impressive. There are more of course like Harrison Phillips etc. And the jury is still out on a lot of players like Oliver, Knox etc. (Although both looking better this year in year 3 which is a good sign) For the record I think Beane is a good drafter and a very good GM. I was just more responding to a comment and pointed out saying he has some great picks but also has some descent misses. I like a good back and forth with posters, but there has to be a real understanding of how things actually are, and with due respect, you are well off base in your assessments of hits and misses with players. For example, anyone can point a finger at Donald and say why is our guy as good as him, “ our GM missed” and that is a weak argument as a comparison, being that there isn’t so many of that caliber of player to go around in any position. As well consider, That Donald lead defense failed to stop the Bills, as an example of how things really are in the NFL. Just sayin, Go Bills!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 3 hours ago, BillsFan130 said: Trading up for Edmunds I consider a mistake. I get it Edmunds is far from horrible, but if you trade up for someone in the mid 1st round, you want that player to dominate. I was just more responding to a comment and pointed out saying he has some great picks but also has some descent misses. Right, cuz Edmunds hasn’t started every single game since he became a Bill, hasn’t made a Pro Bowl, hasn’t earned weekly League honors and hasn’t been named a team captain. If a player can’t achieve these standards as an early 1st Round pick, he’s a bum. Cuz otherwise, a shlepper on his couch knows what he’s talking about. Anyway, Congrats Taron! We thrilled to have you. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Another savvy move by Beane. Taron has been getting better and better; I had already resigned myself that we would lose him as a FA next season. He’s an important part of this defense and has a knack for the big play. Love it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 7 hours ago, BillsFan130 said: No I'm not saying that. But I don't think Edmunds is a hit of a draft pick. If he was a good player I would say it was. But my opinion on Edmunds isn't that high, and I think they missed by trading up to get an average player. (in my mind) Passing on Leonard was just the cherry on top for me 2 Pro Bowls in 3 seasons. Team leader in Tackles since being here. Captain of the number 1 defense in the NFL. Teams game plan against him. Reigning AFC Defensive Player of the Week. 4 years in the league, starter all 4 years. 5th year option picked up. He isn't the best MLB in football, but you would be hard pressed to find anyone who analyzes players for a living that would not list Edmunds in the top 10 of MLB's in the NFL right now. And considering MORE than 50% of all draft picks selected where he was chosen BUST in the NFL, I would say that is a hit by any measure. So I stand by my original critique of your scale of what a "hit" or a "miss" is as severely flawed. 3 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said: Trading up for Edmunds I consider a mistake. I get it Edmunds is far from horrible, but if you trade up for someone in the mid 1st round, you want that player to dominate. Trading up for Cody Ford in the early 2nd round was very bad. Using two day two picks on RBs that really aren't that impressive. There are more of course like Harrison Phillips etc. And the jury is still out on a lot of players like Oliver, Knox etc. (Although both looking better this year in year 3 which is a good sign) For the record I think Beane is a good drafter and a very good GM. I was just more responding to a comment and pointed out saying he has some great picks but also has some descent misses. How does it feel to live in blissful ignorance? To know when you wake up every morning you’ll be wrong about almost everything and still not care? 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninja Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 I’m still amazed that the internal culture that exists at OBD is so strong that players consistently seem to resign for slightly less than market rate. Really happy for Taron, that’s life changing money for him and well deserved. Now do like Marshawn and take care of your body, your mentals and your chicken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: 2 Pro Bowls in 3 seasons. Team leader in Tackles since being here. Captain of the number 1 defense in the NFL. Teams game plan against him. Reigning AFC Defensive Player of the Week. 4 years in the league, starter all 4 years. 5th year option picked up. He isn't the best MLB in football, but you would be hard pressed to find anyone who analyzes players for a living that would not list Edmunds in the top 10 of MLB's in the NFL right now. And considering MORE than 50% of all draft picks selected where he was chosen BUST in the NFL, I would say that is a hit by any measure. So I stand by my original critique of your scale of what a "hit" or a "miss" is as severely flawed. Didn’t you hear just like franchise QBs top 10 middle linebacker’s can be picked up on the middle aisle at Walmart 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 7 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: Except for the fact of hitting 50% on your draft picks for a GM is phenomenal. The biggest question mark for Beane is the inability of his top draft picks to turn into blue chip players (besides JA). We are yet to see the likes of Ed Oliver, Edmunds, Epenesa, Knox, Singletary to take over a game in crucial moments by themselves. especially against the TOP teams. We have built a nucleus of extremely good players but NOT great players. We literally have three Blue chip players in Allen, Diggs and White. A SB winning team usually have 5-6 blue chip players...super stars....Edmunds is getting close there...We need a DE and RB to join that elite company 45 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: He isn't the best MLB in football, but you would be hard pressed to find anyone who analyzes players for a living that would not list Edmunds in the top 10 of MLB's in the NFL right now. For the Bills to win multiple SB, what we need is NOT a very good Edmunds but need a very GREAT Edmunds. He has to continue elevating his play and make those big plays against BIG teams...He has always come short on those games. Go Bills. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, eball said: How does it feel to live in blissful ignorance? To know when you wake up every morning you’ll be wrong about almost everything and still not care? Is that comment really necessary man? It's my opinion and I wasn't being obnoxious about it at all. I may be wrong that's ok. Anyways hope you have a good night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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