Zack Moss crazy statistic…

[Dr.Sack]

Small sample size - but the Bills are 14-2 when this guy plays.

Loved drafting him to compliment with Singletary, just like Rousseau & Basham were paired. Depth is key. McBeane knows. Trust the process. 
 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I would have rather have had JK Dobbins in the second round and then go DL in the 3rd round.  

Moss looks faster than he did last year.  He is a tough runner. 

 

I know it is RB by committee in 2021 and has been for a while, but how I miss the great dual threat RB's.  Thurman, Tomlinson, Faulk, hell even Edgerrin James was a great dual threat guy.  Just watched 1991 MVP season for Thurman on YouTube.  He could do everything.  A RB like these guys and a capable TE in Knox and this offense is unstoppable.  

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I would have rather have had JK Dobbins in the second round and then go DL in the 3rd round.  

Moss looks faster than he did last year.  He is a tough runner. 

 

I know it is RB by committee in 2021 and has been for a while, but how I miss the great dual threat RB's.  Thurman, Tomlinson, Faulk, hell even Edgerrin James was a great dual threat guy.  Just watched 1991 MVP season for Thurman on YouTube.  He could do everything.  A RB like these guys and a capable TE in Knox and this offense is unstoppable.  

Do you know how hard it is to get a running back of this caliber? 

 

Hall of Fame backs just don't grow on trees

[Reader]

It was mentioned in another thread how Moss runs so intensely that he is at risk of injuring himself. I'm glad to have the committee approach knowing that we have him available when needed for what he does best.

[BADOLBILZ]

22 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I would have rather have had JK Dobbins in the second round and then go DL in the 3rd round.  

Moss looks faster than he did last year.  He is a tough runner. 

 

I know it is RB by committee in 2021 and has been for a while, but how I miss the great dual threat RB's.  Thurman, Tomlinson, Faulk, hell even Edgerrin James was a great dual threat guy.  Just watched 1991 MVP season for Thurman on YouTube.  He could do everything.  A RB like these guys and a capable TE in Knox and this offense is unstoppable.  

 

 

You are mixing era's.

 

There aren't many(if any) RB's that can produce like that for long periods because those kind of athletes don't play RB anymore.........it's a devalued  position so those guys play defense or WR now because that's where the money is.    There also wasn't the same "middle class" of receiving TE's that there are now in the days of the superstar, long career RB's.   

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Do you know how hard it is to get a running back of this caliber? 

 

Hall of Fame backs just don't grow on trees

 

 

Not only that but when you have QB's who can throw for 8.0 yards per attempt...........handing it off to a top RB for 5 yards per attempt is a much less productive play.   And as good as a guy like Alvin Kamara can be out of the backfield..........he is a career 8 yards per reception guy.    Better off throwing it to the dink/dunk slot receiver like Cole Beasley who will average 10+ if you don't want to push it down the field for REAL yardage.

 

The running game has it's place but it's no substitute for a good passing game in today's NFL.

[billybrew1]

23 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

Small sample size - but the Bills are 14-2 when this guy plays.

Loved drafting him to compliment with Singletary, just like Rousseau & Basham were paired. Depth is key. McBeane knows. Trust the process. 
 

 

I've maintained since we drafted Singletary and Moss, they are NFL quality. That sure wasn't a bragging game for Singletary but 

I really think most of the plays they are calling for him are weak and not executed well besides. They are very often telegraphed and look clutzy, etc. Speaking of Thurman, I wonder if our line could run the counter trey effectively? I think Devin is very similar to Thurman and should be able to run similar plays effectively.

 

Moss sure had himself a couple two weeks didn't he? He really has looked very impressive but don't rule out Singletary remaining as an option in this offense. And Bills fans, forget about the Bills drafting a RB high. It is going to be linemen for the foreseeable future. Aside from linemen look for receivers and outside CBs as higher options....

Next year's picks are going to be (if BPA matches up): DT first, C/G second, Receiver (TE/WR) third. CB fourth. CB May be higher if we lose both Wallace and TJ...... (man, that would suck). If we lose both ....DT, CB, C/G, CB again. I'm thinking the Bills go on a youth movement next year and retire Star, Jerry and Mario making DT a big need....

It'll be interesting to see if Beane can get ED and Tremaine to resign with us at lower rates. I don't think either is a top NFL player but both are young and more than adequate..... I think the Bills are afraid of FAs more or less and want to stay with these guys but you never know. Upgrades would sure be exciting and interesting. Tremaine is a controversial BB for good reason. Though I really like his huge size in the back seven. Just wish he was in on way more plays and made more initial plays and big plays.

I guess my point was I don't see RB as a high draft selection till Singletary is no longer a Bill because Linemen, Receivers And cornerbacks are just much higher needs on this team.

[billybrew1]

10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Not only that but when you have QB's who can throw for 8.0 yards per attempt...........handing it off to a top RB for 5 yards per attempt is a much less productive play.   And as good as a guy like Alvin Kamara can be out of the backfield..........he is a career 8 yards per reception guy.    Better off throwing it to the dink/dunk slot receiver like Cole Beasley who will average 10+ if you don't want to push it down the field for REAL yardage.

 

The running game has it's place but it's no substitute for a good passing game in today's NFL.

Especially if you have that extremely rare QB that can make all the throws even in poor conditions like we are currently blessed with. Both Beasley and Sanders are old and both are very key players to our system. We will be drafting receivers over RBs higher for the foreseeable future. Singletary and Moss both excel in one RB quality; pass blocking. That is no coincidence. 

Devin and Zach are both underrated as all around players besides. I'm telling you, this offense is designed to do what Josh Allen is good at, the are few other considerations. Hopefully, Brian gets the time to draw up some plays that Devin can excel at and our OL can execute but that stuff is tertiary at best in our offense. It's all about making Josh comfortable and happy taking advantage of his massive skill set. Maybe as Josh continues to improve he can do things to help running backs more. Things like taking snaps from under center and passing from it better. Or play play-action passes. These plays would help the run game.

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

Odd but cool info on Moss.
 

Different era, but there was some ongoing stat where the Cowboys were like 33-0, or 32-1 when Tony Dorsett carried for 100 yards or more.  I have no idea how that one finished out. 

[MJS]

What's the Bills record without Moss, if you have it handy?

 

Moss is a good short yardage back and good in pass protection. I just think this offense is designed to move through Josh Allen and the receivers. Running backs and TE's are going to take a back seat, but it's good to have some guys who can take advantage of limited touches.

[Warcodered]

I mean if this is counting playoff games then that's what 3 we lost without him as opposed to the 2 we lost with him.

 

I'm not sure a 1 game difference amounts to much of a pattern.

[Doc Brown]

58 minutes ago, MJS said:

What's the Bills record without Moss, if you have it handy?

426-485-8.  Definitely an important player as we're slightly below average without him.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Doc Brown

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I would have rather have had JK Dobbins in the second round and then go DL in the 3rd round.  

Moss looks faster than he did last year.  He is a tough runner. 

 

I know it is RB by committee in 2021 and has been for a while, but how I miss the great dual threat RB's.  Thurman, Tomlinson, Faulk, hell even Edgerrin James was a great dual threat guy.  Just watched 1991 MVP season for Thurman on YouTube.  He could do everything.  A RB like these guys and a capable TE in Knox and this offense is unstoppable.  

I wanted Dobbins too, but which DL in rd 3?  I think Beane nailed it with Epenesa. DE over RB all day every day. 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I would have rather have had JK Dobbins in the second round and then go DL in the 3rd round.  

Moss looks faster than he did last year.  He is a tough runner. 

 

I know it is RB by committee in 2021 and has been for a while, but how I miss the great dual threat RB's.  Thurman, Tomlinson, Faulk, hell even Edgerrin James was a great dual threat guy.  Just watched 1991 MVP season for Thurman on YouTube.  He could do everything.  A RB like these guys and a capable TE in Knox and this offense is unstoppable.  

You mean the same Dobbins that is out for the year

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

But then we inactivated him week 1 in favor of guys that only play special teams….and then lost the game because of special teams.

 

Special teams is cool and all and it is important. But nowhere near as important as offense or defense. And the truth is it’s a lot easier to find gunners or a guy that block on a return, then it is to find a playmaker on offense. There has been so little to complain about during this recent era of Bills football but game day inactives (particularly in relation to improper weighting of STs importance) is one for sure.

[1ManRaid]

4 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Small sample size - but the Bills are 14-2 when this guy plays.

Loved drafting him to compliment with Singletary, just like Rousseau & Basham were paired. Depth is key. McBeane knows. Trust the process. 
 

 

 

How long do you think he's been on the team?  Hint, we went 15-4 last year.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I would have rather have had JK Dobbins in the second round and then go DL in the 3rd round.  

Moss looks faster than he did last year.  He is a tough runner. 

 

I know it is RB by committee in 2021 and has been for a while, but how I miss the great dual threat RB's.  Thurman, Tomlinson, Faulk, hell even Edgerrin James was a great dual threat guy.  Just watched 1991 MVP season for Thurman on YouTube.  He could do everything.  A RB like these guys and a capable TE in Knox and this offense is unstoppable.  

 

I am a big JK Dobbins fan but in an offense like ours which will always, and should always, be pass first his value is more limited than a pass rusher. If Epenesa continues to develop and becomes a genuine contributor from the edge then nobody will wish we had a running back instead. 

[CSBill]

One ancillary point to this conversation, Breida is quickly becoming irrelevant. I was not impressed with the signing, and he has done nothing to prove he belongs (there is a reason this is his third team in 3 years).

 

I think once Marquez Stevenson returns, he is gone. (Is that this week?)

[Not at the table Karlos]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

You mean the same Dobbins that is out for the year

Can you definitively say that he would be injured and out for the year if he were drafted by another team? 

[machine gun kelly]

RB’s can only take you so far in the 2021 NFL.  The Ravens last year were #1 in rushing and #32 in passing.  They won one playoff game finally and scored a whopping 3 pts against us.  My point is as Barolo pointed out is Defensive line pressure, And incredible WR play when you have an amazing talent in Josh is the priority.  So far GROOT and this year AJ have shown along with Gabe the benefits.  We haven’t seen nearly enough in Boggie to make any speculations.

 

Taking 3rd round RB’s is a smart

move over two years.  I like Motor and Moss.  In four years they may or

may not be extended.  It’s just the NFL way.   Do you think Jerrah regrets giving all that $ to Zeke?  He’s already been somewhat supplanted by a younger guy.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

40 minutes ago, CSBill said:

One ancillary point to this conversation, Breida is quickly becoming irrelevant. I was not impressed with the signing, and he has done nothing to prove he belongs (there is a reason this is his third team in 3 years).

 

I think once Marquez Stevenson returns, he is gone. (Is that this week?)

Stevenson can return this week, yes

[fergie's ire]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

You mean the same Dobbins that is out for the year

And that is the problem.  RBs have a high rate of injury.  Yes, Saquon Barkley is a generational talent, but how much has he helped the Giants given that he has been out a lot of the time. Furthermore, I think I heard that when he was drafted, he was already top five in salary for running backs.  So, even on a rookie deal he was not cheap.  Because of their tendency to break down, few backs anymore seem worth it on their second contract (look at Zeke Elliot).  Picking someone like Dobbins in the 2nd wouldn't be too bad, but I still wouldn't invest that high in a running back.  The third round is about right...and just draft a running back often at that point in the draft.  You might get lucky and find an Alvin Kamara, but otherwise you can get good, if not great, backs but at that position good is a better value.

[eball]

7 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

A RB like these guys and a capable TE in Knox and this offense is unstoppable

 

The Bills’ offense is pretty much unstoppable as it is.  The combo of Motor and Moss do all of the things needed in this offense.  I’m not saying adding a Thurman Thomas clone to the mix wouldn’t be fantastic, but they don’t need it to be an amazing offense.

 

[Watkins90]

It seems to me that the offense runs better when he is on the field, as opposed to Singletary. Or, at least, that's how it appeared to me during the Washington game. 

[chris heff]

That is one meaningless stat. That being said I like Moss, I also like Singletary. They are good team players, don’t complain about sharing touches.

[colin]

moss just seems like a much better back to me than motor.  i suppose motor seems to find the big hole for a massive gainers once in a while, so that's good, but our big need from a running game is first downs and putting the opponent's d where we want them (and not rushing allen to death).  I just think moss does that for us much better.

[JOSH HUFF]

9 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Do you know how hard it is to get a running back of this caliber? 

 

Hall of Fame backs just don't grow on trees

Moss is the best RB on this team.  He is much more of a threat out of the backfield because he can catch!!  Singletary is a good compliment, however, pretty much one dimensional.  Moss can run a rout and catch the ball, Singletary not so much.

[falgobofu]

I believe Singletary is not given his due, is he elite? No but his Y/A is 19 - 5.1, 20 - 4.4, 21 - 5.1......this is pretty good and he does have the chunk plays more consistently vs Moss. Both are good blockers and both are an average to above average RB in the league. Considering Singletary is averaging a yard more per attempt then Moss I would like to see him the the RB1 role

Edited September 29, 2021 by falgobofu

[ProcessAccepted]

He looks a lot stronger running the ball this year. Starting to see some of those business decisions he was talking about right after the draft. I think he's going to improve each year like Derrick Thomas did (not to that level of success of course). My only concern with Moss is can he run that hard and stay healthy. 

[Arkady Renko]

16 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said:

He looks a lot stronger running the ball this year. Starting to see some of those business decisions he was talking about right after the draft. I think he's going to improve each year like Derrick Thomas did (not to that level of success of course). My only concern with Moss is can he run that hard and stay healthy. 

 

Derrick Thomas the Chiefs LB or Derrick Holmes, the most underrated Bills RB in history?

[ProcessAccepted]

28 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said:

 

Derrick Thomas the Chiefs LB or Derrick Holmes, the most underrated Bills RB in history?

Ha ha I can't believe I typed Thomas. My bad. I meant Henry of course. The jump in power in his game this year has surprised me. He's delivering blows this year and you can see the impact when defenders are getting up afterwards. 

[TheBrownBear]

17 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said:

Ha ha I can't believe I typed Thomas. My bad. I meant Henry of course. The jump in power in his game this year has surprised me. He's delivering blows this year and you can see the impact when defenders are getting up afterwards. 

Moss has been a thumper going back to his college days.  He's a guy who physically punishes you for 3 quarters until you just roll over in the 4th.

[quinnearlysghost88]

They’re 2,345-3,281 when he’s not in the game. 

[ProcessAccepted]

55 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Moss has been a thumper going back to his college days.  He's a guy who physically punishes you for 3 quarters until you just roll over in the 4th.

I can't remember any games from last year where he dished out pain like he's doing this year. I saw him do it in college but not so much last year. If you can point out any like his 2 TD runs against the Dolphins I'd love to go bac and take a look.

[Buffalo Boy]

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Not only that but when you have QB's who can throw for 8.0 yards per attempt...........handing it off to a top RB for 5 yards per attempt is a much less productive play.   And as good as a guy like Alvin Kamara can be out of the backfield..........he is a career 8 yards per reception guy.    Better off throwing it to the dink/dunk slot receiver like Cole Beasley who will average 10+ if you don't want to push it down the field for REAL yardage.

 

The running game has it's place but it's no substitute for a good passing game in today's NFL.

   Correct BUT it’s a heck of a compliment. If we have a rushing attack that becomes simply dependable when the opponent knows we are rushing the O becomes literally unstoppable.

[dma0034]

Also running backs get hurt a lot. McCaffrey, Cook and Barkley are 3 dual threats that have missed time due to injury. The only one that hasn't is Kamara. It's why it's risky to pay them.

[Don Otreply]

12 hours ago, Reader said:

It was mentioned in another thread how Moss runs so intensely that he is at risk of injuring himself. I'm glad to have the committee approach knowing that we have him available when needed for what he does best.

Exactly, Moss is a fine RB, but his style does lend itself to injury, especially when you are making the defense make “business decisions”, because sometimes you’re the hammer, and sometimes you’re the nail…, 

[TheBrownBear]

1 hour ago, ProcessAccepted said:

I can't remember any games from last year where he dished out pain like he's doing this year. I saw him do it in college but not so much last year. If you can point out any like his 2 TD runs against the Dolphins I'd love to go bac and take a look.

The second TD against the Phins was crazy violent, I'll give you that, but he had plenty of "tough run" moments as a rook.  See the back to back plays against the Donkeys starting at the 5:00 minute mark.

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by TheBrownBear

[JESSEFEFFER]

2 hours ago, ProcessAccepted said:

I can't remember any games from last year where he dished out pain like he's doing this year. I saw him do it in college but not so much last year. If you can point out any like his 2 TD runs against the Dolphins I'd love to go bac and take a look.

Moss started his rookie year with turf toe.   I really appreciate the things Moss does well and what it means to an offense in key situations.   Fred Jackson-like  but with better ball security.  I think Zack has only 2 fumbles as a Bill.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   Correct BUT it’s a heck of a compliment. If we have a rushing attack that becomes simply dependable when the opponent knows we are rushing the O becomes literally unstoppable.

 

Yeah,  they don't need a great RB.  

 

In fact,  I think having an Alvin Kamara or even Christian McCaffrey would actually take the ball out of the hands of Josh Allen and his receivers more than they should in addition to causing an allocation of $ and other resources better spent elsewhere.

 

They have the kind of RB stable they need.   Adequate and cheap.