AP exclusive: Bills propose new 60k seat stadium by (update - 2025)

[Since1981]

You and OJ can have a reunion back in 1972.

8 minutes ago, Pete said:

9 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

 

Because it’s football not a dance recital 

Get off my lawn boomer?  Bahahahha

[MiltonWaddams]

3 minutes ago, CSBill said:

Have been to TBD on cold and windy days, I vote for all they can do to make it more comfortable. 

I’m sorry that we here at TBD have made it uncomfortable for you. I’m assuming you meant OBD?

[Buffalo Junction]

38 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

So, as per the poster’s assertions, we know that Buffalo will have a wetter climate? I have not read any geographic-specific weather predictions associated with climate change. I also have not read anything about Highmark’s concrete (due to being saturated?) degradation. Those were the central pieces of my question.

 

But, because you type the word “science” in your response, I am supposed to bow down to your faux intellect. Science IS about asking questions, not thought suppression.

https://buffalonews.com/multimedia/photos-highmark-stadiums-growing-list-of-issues/collection_524d18da-fd0f-11eb-9b4d-afa052bcd261.amp.html

[CSBill]

3 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said:

I’m sorry that we here at TBD have made it uncomfortable for you. I’m assuming you meant OBD?

 Yeah, that too 🤪
 

And I do accept your apology. 
 

Edited December 21, 2021 by CSBill

[RochesterLifer]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

is nasa reputable enough for you?  Can we go back to discussing the Bills new stadium please?

 

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

 

The current warming trend is of particular significance because it is unequivocally the result of human activity since the mid-20th century and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented over millennia.1 It is undeniable that human activities have warmed the atmosphere, ocean, and land and that widespread and rapid changes in the atmosphere, ocean, cryosphere, and biosphere have occurred. 

Earth-orbiting satellites and other technological advances have enabled scientists to see the big picture, collecting many different types of information about our planet and its climate on a global scale. This body of data, collected over many years, reveals the signals of a changing climate.

I didn’t question climate change or global warming. I asked if the poster had any real information to back his/her claims of long-term weather predictions for Orchard Park and the deterioration of concrete at Highmark. Neither question, BTW, was answered by your Google 101 cut & paste. The poster, not me, brought these items into the conversation.

Sorry to have stepped into your religion. But no, I will not conform my posts to your hyper-sensitive reading limitations.

7 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

https://buffalonews.com/multimedia/photos-highmark-stadiums-growing-list-of-issues/collection_524d18da-fd0f-11eb-9b4d-afa052bcd261.amp.html

Thank you. I had not seen this and is why I asked.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

I didn’t question climate change or global warming. I asked if the poster had any real information to back his/her claims of long-term weather predictions for Orchard Park and the deterioration of concrete at Highmark. Neither question, BTW, was answered by your Google 101 cut & paste. The poster, not me, brought these items into the conversation.

Sorry to have stepped into your religion. But no, I will not conform my posts to your hyper-sensitive reading limitations.

You seem to be the one with their panties in a wad.  Relax- it’s a Buffalo Bills board.  The topic is the new stadium.  Let’s keep this ship on course 

[Logic]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I'm so tired of arguing for a dome. The analytics and common sense is there. But God forbid you pry that open air constantly windy stadium experience away from the diehards. I don't even care anymore about rain or snow issues.  But could they at least build this thing with some kind of engineering that reduces the wind element. Anything to help Josh.

I’m fairly certain I read that it WILL be built in such a way that the field and stands are somewhat wind protected, similar to Seattle’s stadium.

[purple haze]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

I’m fairly certain I read that it WILL be built in such a way that the field and stands are somewhat wind protected, similar to Seattle’s stadium.

The original report stated the stadium would have an overhang to protect fans from the elements.   That doesn’t seem to be enough for many people though.     I just look forward to the negotiations being completed and a design for the new stadium shown.  I can’t wait for the gnashing of teeth we get when it’s open air like PS&E said it would be.

[Doc Brown]

10 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I'm so tired of arguing for a dome. The analytics and common sense is there. But God forbid you pry that open air constantly windy stadium experience away from the diehards. I don't even care anymore about rain or snow issues.  But could they at least build this thing with some kind of engineering that reduces the wind element. Anything to help Josh.

It's frustrating because I'd love to buy season tickets again as I gave them up after the '07 season as that Giants game finally broke me.  Plus, I started enjoying watching the game on tv more with the enhanced resolution and screen sizes.  Still doesn't beat the stadium experience though on a decent fall day.  The problem is you get maybe three or four a year of those max.  With the season continuing to trend later into the winter I don't think we're going to attract many free agents who are willing to play here in January and February every year.

[Nextmanup]

9 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It's frustrating because I'd love to buy season tickets again as I gave them up after the '07 season as that Giants game finally broke me.  Plus, I started enjoying watching the game on tv more with the enhanced resolution and screen sizes.  Still doesn't beat the stadium experience though on a decent fall day.  The problem is you get maybe three or four a year of those max.  With the season continuing to trend later into the winter I don't think we're going to attract many free agents who are willing to play here in January and February every year.

Why not buy season tickets, go to the first 4 home games or whatever in that nice weather sweet spot, and then sell the rest of them?

 

 

11 hours ago, RochesterLifer said:

Can you provide more info for the bolded to let us know these significant statements are factual? 

Jesus Christ.  Are you serious?

 

 

[ChrisWatson#21]

55 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It's frustrating because I'd love to buy season tickets again as I gave them up after the '07 season as that Giants game finally broke me.  Plus, I started enjoying watching the game on tv more with the enhanced resolution and screen sizes.  Still doesn't beat the stadium experience though on a decent fall day.  The problem is you get maybe three or four a year of those max.  With the season continuing to trend later into the winter I don't think we're going to attract many free agents who are willing to play here in January and February every year.

Bad weather games will result in a dip statistically for players and less leverage for future contracts.  Free agents know it.  For example this franchise has only had one kicker ever be selected to a pro bowl and it is very likely Tyler Bass who is a good one will not get selected to one because the swirling winds will cost him a few kicks each season.  Same goes for skill position players outside of running backs.  Allen has already lost his chance to lead the league in passing yards due to a series of crappy weather games.      

Edited December 21, 2021 by ChrisWatson#21

[Doc Brown]

55 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Why not buy season tickets, go to the first 4 home games or whatever in that nice weather sweet spot, and then sell the rest of them?

Highly unlikely to get face value for those remaining tickets.  I can get a Falcons ticket right now for $16 and this is when the Bills are good.

[Doc Brown]

19 minutes ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

Bad weather games will result in a dip statistically for players and less leverage for future contracts.  Free agents know it.  For example this franchise has only had one kicker ever be selected to a pro bowl and it is very likely Tyler Bass who is a good one will not get selected to one because the swirling winds will cost him a few kicks each season.  Same goes for skill position players outside of running backs.  Allen has already lost his chance to lead the league in passing yards due to a series of crappy weather games.      

If you build a winning franchise you can attract and retain free agents (and draft picks) for fair value if you establish a winning franchise like McBeane has done.  Milano, Poyer, Hyde, Dawkins, and White are pry the best examples of this.  The problem is you're not always going to have a winning culture and you're going to have to overpay for free agents when you don't (Mario Williams, Derrick Dockery to name a couple).

 

Crappy weather and a less than desired Buffalo night life will always count against the Bills when it comes to attracting free agents.  Being able to play indoors would help a little.

[RochesterLifer]

4 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Jesus Christ.  Are you serious?

 

 

Jesus Christ, yes.

 

I didn’t question climate change or global warming. I asked if the poster had any real information to back his/her claims of long-term weather predictions (there currently are none) for Orchard Park, where the stadium will be built. That is a legitimate question. Which, by the way, has not yet been answered. 

 

 

[Since1981]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Falcons ticket right now for $16

vs CAR

ROC fans 21, 23 yr old girls with me couldn’t feel their toes. Broke out foot warmer packs. Just not worth it multiple wks at this time of year.

 

Stupid not to cover for fans and competitive reasons.  
 

$16 Falcon tix? Marketplace is speaking to the entertainment  value. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Since1981

[SoCal Deek]

The Bills are designing their new stadium based on climate change? Really? Go figure! 

[Pete]

13 hours ago, CSBill said:

Have been to TBD on cold and windy days, I vote for all they can do to make it more comfortable. 

my most memorable Bills games were snowy.  To me Football in the snow is the best!  I loved playing football in the snow!  And I loved watching football in the snow! Green Bay ice bowl game- thats football!

Soccer is about to become the last sport where they play in bad weather

[Since1981]

The number of actual “cool snow games” at OP in past 5 years? I can count on one hand. The number of blustery (wind) days this month? I need 2 hands and 2 feet. 

[zow2]

Buffalo/Orchard Park has been one of the windiest metro areas in the northeast forever, maybe even in the entire country.  There's no point in building a new stadium without serious protection from the winds.  I've always been in favor of a retractable roof stadium, but I can live with a Dome if that's the only option over open-air.

 

 

[nucci]

6 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Buffalo/Orchard Park has been one of the windiest metro areas in the northeast forever, maybe even in the entire country.  There's no point in building a new stadium without serious protection from the winds.  I've always been in favor of a retractable roof stadium, but I can live with a Dome if that's the only option over open-air.

 

 

it would be crazy to build the same stadium in same location with the current wind problems.

[RiotAct]

8 hours ago, purple haze said:

The original report stated the stadium would have an overhang to protect fans from the elements.   That doesn’t seem to be enough for many people though.     I just look forward to the negotiations being completed and a design for the new stadium shown.  I can’t wait for the gnashing of teeth we get when it’s open air like PS&E said it would be.

It will be open-air, and it will be beautiful.

[Estro]

5 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Why not buy season tickets, go to the first 4 home games or whatever in that nice weather sweet spot, and then sell the rest of them?

 

 

Jesus Christ.  Are you serious?

 

 

I'll give you a reason why. 

Try selling tickets on stubhub to Bills home games in Decenber and January.  I jist sold a set of 4 tickets, lower level, 50 yard line, row 40 behind the Bills bench for $19 each for this Carolina game.  They cost me over $150 each.  

 

There is little to no demand for these brutally cold late season home games.  It's staring to make me reconsider holding onto my season tickets (which I've had for 20 years now) as a fan whos a 7 hour drive from the stadium.

 

I can live with losing a bit but selling tickets for 15 or 20 cents on the dollar is tough......and that's before StubHubs ever increasing fees.

[Beerball]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

It's frustrating because I'd love to buy season tickets again as I gave them up after the '07 season as that Giants game finally broke me.  Plus, I started enjoying watching the game on tv more with the enhanced resolution and screen sizes.  Still doesn't beat the stadium experience though on a decent fall day.  The problem is you get maybe three or four a year of those max.  With the season continuing to trend later into the winter I don't think we're going to attract many free agents who are willing to play here in January and February every year.

Where have you been for the past 30 years? Players go where the money is and/or where they believe they will be put in the best position to win. Stop with the hand wringing. 

[K-9]

14 hours ago, Logic said:

I’m fairly certain I read that it WILL be built in such a way that the field and stands are somewhat wind protected, similar to Seattle’s stadium.

I assume the directional orientation will be the same as to prevent players from having to look directly into the sun at times during a game, but as you point out, there are construction solutions to mitigate the wind issues we have now. Like not building half the stadium below grade, for instance. Glad you mentioned Seattle as an example. I remember seeing a video of how they modeled the winds traveling through the stadium from various directions. Interesting stuff. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

57 minutes ago, nucci said:

it would be crazy to build the same stadium in same location with the current wind problems.

we need one of those stadiums where you can open a certain door and affect the wind whenever your opponent is about to kick.   

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

1 hour ago, nucci said:

it would be crazy to build the same stadium in same location with the current wind problems.

 

It would. And none of the plans being discussed assume building the same stadium.

[purple haze]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

With the season continuing to trend later into the winter I don't think we're going to attract many free agents who are willing to play here in January and February every year.

The season is trending the same for the entire league.  Buffalo is not the only city that gets cold.   If a player plays in the NFL he’s playing cold weather games no matter where he plays home games.

[eball]

56 minutes ago, RJ (not THAT RJ) said:

 

It would. And none of the plans being discussed assume building the same stadium.

 

Yeah, I think they are looking at unique designs to minimize weather impact on fans in particular, if a dome is out of the question.

[purple haze]

2 hours ago, Since1981 said:

vs CAR

ROC fans 21, 23 yr old girls with me couldn’t feel their toes. Broke out foot warmer packs. Just not worth it multiple wks at this time of year.

 

Stupid not to cover for fans and competitive reasons.  
 

$16 Falcon tix? Marketplace is speaking to the entertainment  value. 

The original stadium report noted that seats will be covered to shield fans from the elements.

 

“Competitive reasons” are a red herring.  Both teams play at the same time.  Go win the game.  Weather was great in Jacksonville; perfect conditions: 6 points.    Perfect weather in Tampa: 3 points in the first half.    They came back, eventually, because they executed better.  Not because of the weather.  MNF, the Pats executed.  The Bills didn’t, especially inside the red zone.  Nothing to do with weather.
 

The marketplace is speaking to an appearance by the sorry, no name, Falcons.  And that stadium will likely be mostly full just like it was for Carolina. 65,000 people showed up.   The way some on the board talk one would think the stadium is half full or worse after November.  The new stadium, as reported, being 60-62,000 would mean a few thousand of those fans won’t even be able to get in in future years.  

[Peevo]

35 minutes ago, RJ (not THAT RJ) said:

 

It would. And none of the plans being discussed assume building the same stadium.

 

 

To be honest I haven't seen much on the structure built to negate winds in the stadium.

 

Rainy, windy, and slick conditions are more commonplace than snow in that building.  I don't have the analytics on this, but I think it's hard to argue the wind and rain have been detrimental to the fan experience all season.

 

I honestly think last Sunday was the first dry game of the year.  

 

I know it's outrageously expensive to build a dome, but if you're spending $1.5 billion, why not just spend $3 billion and get guaranteed conditions 8 / 9 games a year?

 

If I were a fan of the Vikings, I'd be happy my team plays in a dome 10 (!) games a year.  It's nice!  I don't honestly understand why this is so controversial.  Every hockey and basketball game is played inside.

 

Nearly every indoor concert I've seen is preferable to the outdoor ones.  This is subjective.  But I prefer a more immersive, intimate experience.

 

Eliminating a negative variable that can affect change in the game is smart, in my opinion.  Poor weather is not an advantage. 

[Matt_In_NH]

16 minutes ago, Peevo said:

Every hockey and basketball game is played inside.

 

Yeah but golf is exclusively outside.  Lets built a golf course dome!

[Boatdrinks]

Almost certainly going to be in OP now. I’d prefer a dome, but covered stands design not awful and they surely won’t go with any kind of sunken field like the current one, which help create those infamous swirling winds 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Boatdrinks

[Logic]

I'll say it again, because many probably skimmed past it:

I read -- ( https://apnews.com/article/kathy-hochul-sports-nfl-business-buffalo-bills-77b347e94170316c76a9c9bd380b80ae ) -- that the plan for the new stadium in Orchard Park is to be built in such a way as to protect the field and the fans from the winds and the elements, similar to Seattle's stadium. I've attended a game there late in the year, and despite it being a cold and windy day, you couldn't really tell from the stands. 

This type of construction doesn't COMPLETELY mitigate the cold, but it makes it VASTLY more tolerable than it is at Highmark Stadium.

Here's the pertinent quote from the Wawrow article above: "The new venue would not include a roof, but it would be designed so that a majority of the seats would be protected from the elements, the person said."

Edited December 21, 2021 by Logic

[Greg S]

1 hour ago, purple haze said:

The original stadium report noted that seats will be covered to shield fans from the elements.

 

“Competitive reasons” are a red herring.  Both teams play at the same time.  Go win the game.  Weather was great in Jacksonville; perfect conditions: 6 points.    Perfect weather in Tampa: 3 points in the first half.    They came back, eventually, because they executed better.  Not because of the weather.  MNF, the Pats executed.  The Bills didn’t, especially inside the red zone.  Nothing to do with weather.
 

The marketplace is speaking to an appearance by the sorry, no name, Falcons.  And that stadium will likely be mostly full just like it was for Carolina. 65,000 people showed up.   The way some on the board talk one would think the stadium is half full or worse after November.  The new stadium, as reported, being 60-62,000 would mean a few thousand of those fans won’t even be able to get in in future years.  

 

PSL fees and raised ticket prices will price many out of being able to afford going to the games. Here in NJ both the Jets and Giants used to have a waiting list at Giants Stadium for season tickets. Since MetLife that isn't an issue anymore.

[buffblue]

32 minutes ago, Logic said:

I'll say it again, because many probably skimmed past it:

I read -- ( https://apnews.com/article/kathy-hochul-sports-nfl-business-buffalo-bills-77b347e94170316c76a9c9bd380b80ae ) -- that the plan for the new stadium in Orchard Park is to be built in such a way as to protect the field and the fans from the winds and the elements, similar to Seattle's stadium. I've attended a game there late in the year, and despite it being a cold and windy day, you couldn't really tell from the stands. 

This type of construction doesn't COMPLETELY mitigate the cold, but it makes it VASTLY more tolerable than it is at Highmark Stadium.

Here's the pertinent quote from the Wawrow article above: "The new venue would not include a roof, but it would be designed so that a majority of the seats would be protected from the elements, the person said."

Works for me

[Helpmenow]

At least it’s not going be built near Batavia 

[cba fan]

1 hour ago, mattynh said:

 

Yeah but golf is exclusively outside.  Lets built a golf course dome!

they only play in warm climates not in winter.

'

[4_kidd_4]

14 minutes ago, Helpmenow said:

At least it’s not going be built near Batavia 

 

Hey now, I think there’s still some ongoing high level meetings…

[cba fan]

2 hours ago, purple haze said:

The original stadium report noted that seats will be covered to shield fans from the elements.

 

“Competitive reasons” are a red herring.  Both teams play at the same time.  Go win the game.  Weather was great in Jacksonville; perfect conditions: 6 points.    Perfect weather in Tampa: 3 points in the first half.    They came back, eventually, because they executed better.  Not because of the weather.  MNF, the Pats executed.  The Bills didn’t, especially inside the red zone.  Nothing to do with weather.
 

The marketplace is speaking to an appearance by the sorry, no name, Falcons.  And that stadium will likely be mostly full just like it was for Carolina. 65,000 people showed up.   The way some on the board talk one would think the stadium is half full or worse after November.  The new stadium, as reported, being 60-62,000 would mean a few thousand of those fans won’t even be able to get in in future years.  

this is completely backwards planning. Vocal minority of fans who want open air keep saying they want the weather experience. 

Why cover the fans? Cover the field and block the wind from the field. Impossible obviously.

 

Must be dome or Bills will regret it just like Bears do now. This open air will be a 50 year mistake preventing pass oriented offense, which are all of the Super Bowl contenders, that is the way teams are built now and for foreseeable future they all want scoring. You want a JA Super Bowl? Must build a dome. Even WFT is planning a dome.

 

Roof only cost 3 to 6 million or so prorated out for life of dome. Will more than pay for itself in tix sales alone not to mention other events: final four, bowl game, HS games, UB games, concerts, trade shows, motorcross, truck shows, frozen four, NCAA regional, Sabres game, combines for NHL or even NFL if they rotate some day, conventions if combined with convention center downtown........

 

Lucas Oil Filed is the model (w new MN Sofi LV translucent roof feels like you are outside)to follow and must be 70k or lose home field advantage also. Soldier Field is not loud at all. Been there numerous times. Pathetic.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by cba fan

[May Day 10]

2 hours ago, purple haze said:

The original stadium report noted that seats will be covered to shield fans from the elements.

 

“Competitive reasons” are a red herring.  Both teams play at the same time.  Go win the game.  Weather was great in Jacksonville; perfect conditions: 6 points.    Perfect weather in Tampa: 3 points in the first half.    They came back, eventually, because they executed better.  Not because of the weather.  MNF, the Pats executed.  The Bills didn’t, especially inside the red zone.  Nothing to do with weather.
 

The marketplace is speaking to an appearance by the sorry, no name, Falcons.  And that stadium will likely be mostly full just like it was for Carolina. 65,000 people showed up.   The way some on the board talk one would think the stadium is half full or worse after November.  The new stadium, as reported, being 60-62,000 would mean a few thousand of those fans won’t even be able to get in in future years.  

 

IMO Carolina was one of the best-weather games of the season.

 

I admit, I passed on going and donated our tickets.  Nobody in our group was feeling it.  It wasnt necessarily a weather thing.  For me, my kid had a hockey game, the opponent was an abysmal opponent with nothing to get excited for.  The Bills had nothing to gain, but everything to lose.