AP exclusive: Bills propose new 60k seat stadium by (update - 2025)

[Mango]

38 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

There is some evidence that the population drain has stopped and may be reversing as the 2020 Census numbers come in.

One thing I'm interested in is if the aged population demographics are changing and younger work aged people are increasing.

 

I too have pondered a return to WNY now that I'm retired.

 

I do wonder if in the near future a demographic change happens and a return to the Great Lakes areas are seen.  Something as

simple as proximity to water could fuel a change.  It's getting to be a big issue out here in the West.

Thanks for you reply.

I agree I think it’s a shift. I did work with Journeys End for a bit a while back so my data is out of date. But back then Buffalo was taking in more refugees than NYC. Because of it the population loss was always assumed to greater than reported. Not that those people don’t count. They do. They’re just not the “look at all the people moving here” anybody accounts for. People like to think that population gain is because people are moving from X city to come live here. And a lot of it is people being placed because we are cheap and have more job opportunities than Syracuse. 
 

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

I agree I think it’s a shift. I did work with Journeys End for a bit a while back so my data is out of date. But back then Buffalo was taking in more refugees than NYC. Because of it the population loss was always assumed to greater than reported. Not that those people don’t count. They do. They’re just not the “look at all the people moving here” anybody accounts for. People like to think that population gain is because people are moving from X city to come live here. And a lot of it is people being placed because we are cheap and have more job opportunities than Syracuse. 
 

 

I do agree there is a lot of different ingredients in the sausage.

 

I guess my main point is that opportunity wise things today in Buffalo are much better for kids leaving school then it was when

I left school in the later half of the 70s.  When I left it was just the start of the big swing toward job and population loss and that

acceleration mode lasted for decades.  My younger nieces and nephews and now even grand nieces and nephews are the ones

really working on me to move back.  LOL, they are much more positive about their futures in WNY than I was at that age.

 

I do see that as a significant improvement and it does give me hope for their futures.   

[SirAndrew]

7 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I do agree there is a lot of different ingredients in the sausage.

 

I guess my main point is that opportunity wise things today in Buffalo are much better for kids leaving school then it was when

I left school in the later half of the 70s.  When I left it was just the start of the big swing toward job and population loss and that

acceleration mode lasted for decades.  My younger nieces and nephews and now even grand nieces and nephews are the ones

really working on me to move back.  LOL, they are much more positive about their futures in WNY than I was at that age.

 

I do see that as a significant improvement and it does give me hope for their futures.   

I think a lot has changed with the economy nation wide since many left Buffalo in the 70’s and 80’s. There really isn’t a workforce promised land these days. You need the proper education or trade skills to find employment anywhere, and Buffalo is no different. This isn’t 1975 where a steel worker with a high school diploma loses his job, and finds good paying employment out west or down south.
 

You need a certain skill set to be well employed anywhere. Finding employment isn’t impossible if you have that. Are there better paying jobs (also higher cost of living in many areas), and more options elsewhere ? Absolutely, but Buffalo isn’t this land without jobs that some would lead you to believe. There are many advantages to living elsewhere, so I’m not being a cheerleader for the city or showing a lack understanding for the myriad of reasons to relocate. I simply don’t think it’s totally accurate to act like the area has zero jobs. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Saw this on Sal Capaccio's twitter, hadn't seen before.

Location of new stadium

 

 

 

Does anyone know whose football field/track would get taken over there - HS? ECCC?

[Just Jack]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Saw this on Sal Capaccio's twitter, hadn't seen before.

Location of new stadium

 

 

That's kind of a "well duh".  Ever since it came out it was going to be on a parking lot/land the Bills controlled, I knew it was going to be over there.  That's the bus lot, the largest parking lot available, that would be the least disrupted, to build anything that large. 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Just Jack

[loyal2dagame]

3 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

That's kind of a "well duh".  Ever since it came out it was going to be on a parking lot/land the Bills controlled, I knew it was going to be over there.  That's the bus lot, the largest parking lot available to build anything that large. 

I still think the county "donates" the entire ecc south campus to the footprint of the new stadium. 

[klos63]

On 9/4/2021 at 7:47 PM, BuffaloBills1998 said:

But it’s not a terrible investment it’s what’s going to help keep the team here in WNY for generations to come. Taxpayers are going to have to pay for a good portion of the stadium. Erie county officials and NYS officials know this. Which is why they will work with the Pegulas on getting this deal done. 

It may not be a terrible investment, but it doesn't guarantee the team here for generations, likely just 1 generation, which I think is 20 years.

[Doc]

3 hours ago, klos63 said:

It may not be a terrible investment, but it doesn't guarantee the team here for generations, likely just 1 generation, which I think is 20 years.

 

If the county puts up a good chunk of money, they can demand 30 years.

[LabattBlue]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Saw this on Sal Capaccio's twitter, hadn't seen before.

Location of new stadium

 

 

 

Does anyone know whose football field/track would get taken over there - HS? ECCC?

Those are ECC South athletic fields.

[PromoTheRobot]

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/hochul-study-on-bills-stadium-site-coming-soon/article_d263f596-1bca-11ec-8e78-1b7584236dd9.html

 

Quote

Gov. Kathy Hochul said Wednesday that a study on the best site for a new Buffalo Bills stadium is expected in "the next couple of weeks" and will be released to the public. The Bills have proposed a $1.4 billion, 60,000-seat stadium in Orchard Park, across Abbott Road from Highmark Stadium, where the team has played for 48 years. But some locals prefer a new stadium in downtown Buffalo.

 

The Bills want taxpayers to foot most of the bill for the new stadium and have said they will not renew the lease on Erie County-owned Highmark Stadium, which expires in July 2023, if there is no stadium deal by then. The cost of the project means the state is front and center in the negotiations.

 

Asked during an event at the Niagara Power Project whether a downtown stadium site had been ruled out, Hochul answered, "We are waiting for the results of a study that's been underway for a number of months now and I think that will come out in the next couple of weeks. We're studying all the options.

 

[Doc]

As they should. Hopefully they at least demand that a fixed roof be put on the stadium (sorry open air enthusiasts). 

[Mr. WEO]

18 minutes ago, Doc said:

As they should. Hopefully they at least demand that a fixed roof be put on the stadium (sorry open air enthusiasts). 

“at least”?

 

why

[Nextmanup]

On 8/31/2021 at 1:31 PM, Utah John said:

Who's got the cash to fill up those 60 suites?  I realize that's a big source of money for other teams but will that work in Buffalo?

It's funny, as  Dallas has over 300 suites, and SOFI has around 260!

 

And you're wondering how we can fill 60....

 

We're never going to compete with the big fish of the league, which is why we shouldn't even try.

 

They should play out at Rich Stadium forever.  The older it gets, the better the experience.

 

Pretty soon it's going to be impossible to enjoy an old fashioned "stadium experience" in the open air with not much going on other than....a FOOTBALL GAME.

 

Leave the hi-tech architectural tour de force stuff to the big markets.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Nextmanup

[BuffaloRebound]

This is good news.  State shouldn’t solely rely on study done by Pegula when govt will be footing some/most of the bill.  

[Doc]

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

“at least”?

 

why

It sounds as if a downtown stadium may still be an option.

[BuffaloRebound]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

It's funny, as  Dallas has over 300 suites, and SOFI has around 260!

 

And you're wondering how we can fill 60....

 

We're never going to compete with the big fish of the league, which is why we shouldn't even try.

 

They should play out at Rich Stadium forever.  The older it gets, the better the experience.

 

Pretty soon it's going to be impossible to enjoy an old fashioned "stadium experience" in the open air and not much going on other than....a FOOTBALL GAME.

 

Leave the hi-tech architectural tour de force stuff to the big markets.

 

 

I agree with this.  Not trying to compare rich/Ralph/whatever it’s called now with Fenway, but going to Fenway is almost a religious experience for baseball fans and that stadium has no frills.  

[eball]

12 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

It's funny, as  Dallas has over 300 suites, and SOFI has around 260!

 

And you're wondering how we can fill 60....

 

We're never going to compete with the big fish of the league, which is why we shouldn't even try.

 

They should play out at Rich Stadium forever.  The older it gets, the better the experience.

 

Pretty soon it's going to be impossible to enjoy an old fashioned "stadium experience" in the open air with not much going on other than....a FOOTBALL GAME.

 

Leave the hi-tech architectural tour de force stuff to the big markets.

 

 

 

There's a HUGE difference between "competing with the big fish" and upgrading the fan experience.  You may enjoy sitting in the elements in a crappy seat (or bleacher) with concourses that make you feel like you're in a dungeon, but most people don't.  This "nostalgia" you're feeling is misplaced.  And, there's that little fact that the stadium is literally falling apart.

[Mr. WEO]

34 minutes ago, Doc said:

It sounds as if a downtown stadium may still be an option.

 

PSE has already submitted a plan for a stadium and decided on Orchard Park--no roof. 

 

What study is the Governor referring to?

[Back2Buff]

I find it funny that people will bring up traffic issues like there isn't huge traffic issues on game days in OP.

 

Traffic shouldn't be a deterrent to a downtown stadium.  Its a BS excuse.

[WotAGuy]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

It's funny, as  Dallas has over 300 suites, and SOFI has around 260!

 

And you're wondering how we can fill 60....

 

We're never going to compete with the big fish of the league, which is why we shouldn't even try.

 

They should play out at Rich Stadium forever.  The older it gets, the better the experience.

 

Pretty soon it's going to be impossible to enjoy an old fashioned "stadium experience" in the open air with not much going on other than....a FOOTBALL GAME.

 

Leave the hi-tech architectural tour de force stuff to the big markets.

 

 

The stadium in Minnesota is really beautiful and a great fan experience. It didn’t feel like the typical covered stadium. The main concourse level felt like an airport or mall - very open and bright. 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

PSE has already submitted a plan for a stadium and decided on Orchard Park--no roof. 

 

What study is the Governor referring to?

No idea. I figure there is one and she didn’t just make it up. 

[PromoTheRobot]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

As they should. Hopefully they at least demand that a fixed roof be put on the stadium (sorry open air enthusiasts). 

 

Look at ticket prices in December. It's obvious fewer people want to watch a game outdoors when it's cold.

[stuvian]

On 8/31/2021 at 2:51 PM, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

Bills sold out even when the team stunk.  It's about driving up demand, increasing seat prices, and selling seat licenses.  Gotta pay for everything.

not in late season games

[stuvian]

Something to consider with a smaller stadium in the 60 K seating range is expandability. I'm on the Steelers season ticket wait list and I get asked about buying into new sections from time to time when they get built. The Steelers will be expanding seating capacity to add more PSL and non-PSL season ticket seats. I expect the Bills stadium will start at that size and have capacity to be filled in as markets warrant. Don't expect every season ticket location to be PSL either. Most PSL teams have some non-PSL season ticket sections as well. The NFL still needs the blue collar fan who can't or won't buy a PSL. 

 

17 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Look at ticket prices in December. It's obvious fewer people want to watch a game outdoors when it's cold.

especially women

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

No idea. I figure there is one and she didn’t just make it up. 

Local officials are definitely looking into it 

 

But if Pegula is putting up a couple hundred million... he probably will get to put it where he deems most fit 

 

And the downtown stadiums look really expensive

 

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

No idea. I figure there is one and she didn’t just make it up. 

CorrectA study was done but was never made available to the public. That’s the study she is referring to. 

[Chandler#81]

I continue to hold out hope for a Dome. I’ve been to many cold, snowy games since The Rockpile. If I never attend another one, it’ll still be too soon!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 8/31/2021 at 1:52 PM, elijah said:

60,000 seems a bit short no? 

 

Weren’t season tickets themselves 60k+ over the past 2 years? 

The new pricing structure will help with that issue. 

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

11 hours ago, Doc said:

As they should. Hopefully they at least demand that a fixed roof be put on the stadium (sorry open air enthusiasts). 

 

Honestly, I was adverse to domes when I was a kid....really loved the weather "element" to the game.  Especially snow.  Now that I'm older, I am just tired of the elements affecting play.  Everything is literally is up in the air regards to the outcome, doesn't matter who your playing.  I really want to watch players on an even field without all the variables.

 

So, I'm a +1 when it comes to a roof

[Back2Buff]

Lots of seats still available for the Washington game.

[Doc]

10 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Local officials are definitely looking into it 

 

But if Pegula is putting up a couple hundred million... he probably will get to put it where he deems most fit 

 

And the downtown stadiums look really expensive

 

10 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

CorrectA study was done but was never made available to the public. That’s the study she is referring to. 

Considering public funds will almost assuredly be used, probably accounting for the majority of the bill, and the county (state?) will own the stadium, the county/state might have more of a say on the stadium than we think.

 

5 hours ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

Honestly, I was adverse to domes when I was a kid....really loved the weather "element" to the game.  Especially snow.  Now that I'm older, I am just tired of the elements affecting play.  Everything is literally is up in the air regards to the outcome, doesn't matter who your playing.  I really want to watch players on an even field without all the variables.

 

So, I'm a +1 when it comes to a roof

More people will attend cold-weather games and “local” revenue will increase as a result.  In addition and in the same vein, the stadium could be used year round. 

[uticaclub]

60k seats is small but if they add an additonal ~10k for a standing room 21+ party deck, i think would be great. The people that want to bring their family and enjoy the game can be seperate from those of us that start tailgating on Friday. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 8/31/2021 at 2:37 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's a very disappointing, short-sighted, small town, bush league plan. Agreed.

 

As the only team that actually plays in NYS, and the fact that there is no way the politicians will let the Bills leave, the Pegulas should press the state much harder to pony up what is needed to get an awesome new stadium downtown, a bunch of new surrounding bars/restaurants/commercial space, and the added infrastructure to support it (expand 190, add ramps, add rail from airport to downtown).

 

I dont care if they say it will cost $3B. NYC is good for it. Make it happen.

NYC is pretty much broke after covid...Tons of people moved away and they are begging people to come back.

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

NYC is pretty much broke after covid...Tons of people moved away and they are begging people to come back.

 

Don't be fooled, Wall Street says different. The S&P500 returned almost 17% in 2020, with COVID. Plenty of money around if youre willing to find it.

Edited September 23, 2021 by DrDawkinstein

[uticaclub]

21 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

NYC is pretty much broke after covid...Tons of people moved away and they are begging people to come back.

NYC was broke well before covid.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

NYC was broke well before covid.

lol true....they are on the next level of broke now though 😁

[DrDawkinstein]

24 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

NYC was broke well before covid.

 

19 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

lol true....they are on the next level of broke now though 😁

 

If yall really believe that the largest city and home to the financial markets in one of the worlds wealthiest countries has no money to be found, then I have a bridge to sell you.

[uticaclub]

11 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

If yall really believe that the largest city and home to the financial markets in one of the worlds wealthiest countries has no money to be found, then I have a bridge to sell you.

The Cuomo bridge? The difference between us being broke and a city being broke, is more money can be printed and given to the city. NYC has been a mess for decades and as brought the rest of the state down with it. Could NYC go to an ATM and pull out a $20? No. Is it worth more then $20? Yes

Edited September 23, 2021 by uticaclub

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

The Cuomo bridge? The difference between us being broke and a city being broke, is more money can be printed and given to the city. NYC has been a mess for decades and as brought the rest of the state down with it. Could NYC go to an ATM and pull out a $20? No. Is it worth more then $20? Yes

 

We could both go on and on about financial mismanagement for just about every city and town in the country. And while that is an issue, it really isn't the point. Plus it gets us more towards a PPP post, which I certainly don't want to do. So to keep this on track about Stadium Funding and the possibilities...

 

The money is there, even if it is being mismanaged.

 

Funny yall talk about "bringing the rest of the state down with it", when NYS has one of the largest economies in the country (only behind CA and TX), mostly due to NYC. And NYS pays $26B more in Federal taxes than it receives in Federal aid. Whereas most other states receive more than they pay. So I'm still not buying that money isn't there, or can't be found.

 

Heck, NYS could hold back a couple Billion of that and still contribute $24B to the US, and totally fund the stadium build.

 

The money is there. Don't be fooled.

[BuffaloBills1998]

https://t.co/Lsq9YWFSee

 

Hochoul advised there’s updated information coming out next week about the stadium.

Edited September 23, 2021 by BuffaloBills1998