May Day 10 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 That is a clearly slanted article 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 I can never understand the Owner bashing. The Pegulas don’t sit in the stadium seats…the fans do! They have to be paid for by the fans one way or the other. Just like the patrons of a movie theater pay for the seats. Just like you pay for your seat at McDonald’s. Why is this confusing? The stadium is not the Pegulas personal private residence. So we, the fans, can either foot the bill with each ticket you buy (and believe me you do NOT want to do that) or you can spread the cost out over the entire WNY population base. Which one do you choose? 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 29 minutes ago, Doc said: Whether to put a roof on the stadium is bigger than just football. The most important question is "if there is a roof, will the stadium be used more during the year?" If the answer is "yes," then a roof should be installed and the county should foot the bill for the roof since it will be their stadium and they'll get more money by being able to use it more. Very well summarized Doc, and exactly correct. Where this becomes complicated however is that by far the best location for a multipurpose dome is not out in Orchard Park, but instead in downtown, which brings with it way more associated relocation costs than just the roof itself. Thus, these discussions get really entangled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 The good news is that the Pegula’s spent some money to grease the political wheels, they would not have done that if they wanted to move the team..... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 8 hours ago, BTB said: You are constantly moving the goalposts. You implied that you grew up watching the Bills in the Rockpile, when in reality you didn't at all. I apologize as you seem to be a nice guy, but it is impossible to have a conversation with you when you are weaving your tales. I really need to move on from this thread...at least until the stadium plans have been announced, and there is something definitive to discuss. it's not moving the goal posts. They are already at the back of the endzone. It's moving the goal line 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 45 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: Based upon some people I respect calling this a one-sided hatchet job - I will not give clicks to the original article - I will wait for a reputable source like Warrow to write a true piece. I agree with JMF that this is negotiating tactics- I just don’t see it landing near 50/50. I firmly believe the Pegula’s are making a huge concession going open air and in OP and that is their opening volley in payment. Basically we are saving you nearly 50% of the cost on the stadium we could demand - downtown and retractable roof - so we expect you to contribute about 1.2 billion publicly and we will get 200 million from NFL loans and pay this off. I think the final figures will be close to that - probably 1 Billion public, 200-300 million NFL and a couple 100 million from the Pegula’s covering cost overruns and additional amenities they want. I think there will be a lot of bickering and it will be messy, but some of it will come from the infrastructure bill being passed and now is the perfect time to get this done. https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2021/08/04/erie-county-exec-tamps-down-fears-of-bills-relocating/#.YSD2ZcopChA John Wawrow article at above link. Tim Graham has had some good coverage in the Athletic as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralonzo Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 5 hours ago, gomper said: This is terrifying people Punctuation is the difference between "I helped my Uncle, Jack, off a horse" and 1 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 28 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I can never understand the Owner bashing. The Pegulas don’t sit in the stadium seats…the fans do! They have to be paid for by the fans one way or the other. Just like the patrons of a movie theater pay for the seats. Just like you pay for your seat at McDonald’s. Why is this confusing? The stadium is not the Pegulas personal private residence. So we, the fans, can either foot the bill with each ticket you buy (and believe me you do NOT want to do that) or you can spread the cost out over the entire WNY population base. Which one do you choose? Well said SoCal. This isn’t Dallas that a makes a bajillion $ (I know it’s not a word for the syntax police) or LA, or Vegas. The team may be valued at $2+ Bil., but they forked out $1.4 bil., to buy it, whatever they spent on the Sabres, built up downtown with the luxury hotel and common area, etc. They've made Buffalo a better place, and will end up kicking in some $, but the county and state will most likely contribute a significant portion if it. They do get to borrow $200 mil. from the league, and I believe there are very favorable tax implications which is why Billionaires want to buy into a recession proof business. Cleveland never thought Modell would move the team, but he did when he needed another stadium to be profitable. They lose the team, have to wait three years, Baltimore comes out firing on all cylinders as a winning team, and the new Browns sucked for 20 years. The funding won’t be 100% public $, but it’s not going to be 100% private either. They’ll figure it out, and no the team isn’t moving. Most of the real negotiations we’ll never really know as it will all be behind closed doors for two years, and hacks like this author will keep on writing chicken little stories. As Sandra Bullock from the Blindside said…. ”Don’t get you’re p…..s in a wad”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Doc said: The "Pegula floated a proposal for the public to fund 100% of the cost of a new stadium" claim has already been debunked. He/they neither floated it (a county exec did) nor did he/they ever expect the public to fund 100% of it (as if this wasn't already obvious, and I think they expect to pay 25%). It's a negotiation with both sides wanting to be on the hook for as little as possible. They'll get something done because losing a billionaire who has done a lot for the area, as well as losing 2 professional sports teams from the area, would be devastating. And lest anyone forget, a good chunk of the $1.4B they paid for the team went to Buffalo. A good chunk of that 1.4 billion is the cost of doing business, the Pegulas knew this going in, and Buffalo sure as hell should not give back any of it, like zero. The multi billionaires can build a stadium out of their own pocket, and they can afford totally afford it, if they don’t want to then tell the NFL /Pegulas to pound sand. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) I’m about to share what I expect to be an immensely unpopular on a fan forum. Bills football holds a special place in my heart, but I really don’t get overly passionate about these things. I’ll follow the team as long as they are in Buffalo. I’m not about to become irrational over how much them leaving would impact my life. I realize the team leaving is unlikely, but I wouldn’t lose sleep either way. I’ll enjoy the ride as it happens. If the government/taxpayers decide it’s too much, I’d understand as the responsible thing to do. If the Pegula’s get welfare, I’ll be happy the teams stays, and perfectly content with the drumbeat of rich guy welfare marching on. It’s just what it is, and I don’t even listen to the noise. I think the Bills will be in Buffalo, and I don’t want them to leave. I just don’t become too emotional either way. Feel free to call me a bad fan. 😆 Edited August 21, 2021 by SirAndrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 6 hours ago, gomper said: Fair enough. However, if this has any merit, we could be looking at a long messy road. Just a thought. the digression through these first couple posts is actually the thread in society that worries me most these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 18 hours ago, LeGOATski said: Yeah, because we'll all be whiny old geezers by then, who don't want to sit outside. Or having a building that is usable year round for other events may be an easier sell to the non football tax paying public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 17 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: For the city of Buffalo, for the long term enjoyment, and the development of the area - it is by far the most short sighted decision as basically you are replacing one with another and there is little benefit. well, not necessarily. Aren’t there a lot of things that they can improve on over the original Rich Stadium that they couldn’t do with a mere renovation to the existing structure? (Not having the effects of the wind amplified for one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: Very well summarized Doc, and exactly correct. Where this becomes complicated however is that by far the best location for a multipurpose dome is not out in Orchard Park, but instead in downtown, which brings with it way more associated relocation costs than just the roof itself. Thus, these discussions get really entangled. I agree. But the increase in cost by about $1B kills it since the taxpayers aren't going to pay that much more. 2 minutes ago, RiotAct said: well, not necessarily. Aren’t there a lot of things that they can improve on over the original Rich Stadium that they couldn’t do with a mere renovation to the existing structure? (Not having the effects of the wind amplified for one). Yes. The new stadium will be far better than the old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearwater cadet Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 They knew they were getting a new stadium and the tax payor were going to fund it when they bought the time. It why they paid so much. This is smoke and mirrors, it was all part of the deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjv Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 When Ralph Wilson created the Buffalo Bills franchise, the population of Buffalo was twice what it is today. I would suspect that most of those who migrated to other parts of the world did so for economic reasons. Why would we be surprised by the current Bills owners doing the same' for the same reason' as our X-Buffalonians. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the tax payers should foot the entire bill for a new stadium. However, the Buffalo situation is unique in that a 1.4 million dollar football stadium is not a sound economic investment in WNY, no matter who pays for it. Building a new stadium for 1.4 mil in WNY is a "Lark" for the area' and viewing it's financing needs to be treated as such. I'm a "Buffalo" Bills Fan and want to have the franchise stay in Buffalo forever. Therefore I hoping that the Taxpayers of the State of NY, County of Erie, City of Buffalo don't drive the Bills away with this demeaning Billionaire playground rhetoric. I hoping they realize that they will probably have to contribute more than we've seen recently for a new football stadium. On the other hand, I hope the current owners and future owners of the Bills are satisfied with the returns on their investment in Buffalo, and are not looking to other parts of the country for better returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 This thread just shot to the top of the "Worst Threads of the Offseason" list. What a garbage article from a garbage source to post. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Another hit piece propaganda from a divisive far left website. Absolute BS. Anti American. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 minute ago, wppete said: Another hit piece propaganda from a divisive far left website. Absolute BS. Anti American. You don't sound terrified enough . . . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 So who am I supposed to hate now Left right or center ? Can someone please point me in the right direction 🙏🏻 thank you Go Bills baby!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: You don't sound terrified enough . . . the masses are waking up to this. Eyes 👀 wide open. Go Bills!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 This has way less to do with whether the site is far left or far right, and more to do with being able to discern what constitutes a "good source" since these types of "news blogs" certainly exist on both sides. And funny enough, they are all usually run by the same groups of bad actors trying to stir the pot and create division on both sides. When you cant click through to find the actual home office location, or even names of the people that work there... it's a fake site. For more fun reading, look into dbags like Paul Horner or this fun list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, Putin said: So who am I supposed to hate now Left right or center ? Can someone please point me in the right direction 🙏🏻 thank you Go Bills baby!!! You should hate manipulation/incompetence in all its forms. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 11 hours ago, purple haze said: Can most fans afford an exponential hike in ticket prices? Ultra-expensive PSL’s? I currently have decent club seats. Seeing as I normally only make one or two games a year (the others I sell to family/friends, some on ticket exchange), depending on the new stadium pricing and location of seats I feel are affordable, I may just drop my seasons when it opens. I'm right at that break point where I can afford them, but I should really use the money somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Don Otreply said: A good chunk of that 1.4 billion is the cost of doing business, the Pegulas knew this going in, and Buffalo sure as hell should not give back any of it, like zero. The multi billionaires can build a stadium out of their own pocket, and they can afford totally afford it, if they don’t want to then tell the NFL /Pegulas to pound sand. You’ve really got to be kidding me. As I said in my previous post. SOMEONE is going to pay for a new stadium, and it isn’t going to be the Owner. Now…there’s a difference between paying for something up front and getting that money back over time. If the Pegulas pay it up front only the people who go to the games are going to pay them back. If the county or state chip in it means that payback will be spread across millions of people. You pick! (Here’s a hint…choose the second one or your tickets are going to cost a fortune!) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) Where do people find these news websites that look like they were designed in a high school computer class? Did you seek it out? Are you a subscriber? Here is the stated purpose of this "news organization": Quote We're a grassroots watchdog network connecting the dots between the world's most powerful people and organizations. Breaking news - extremely rich and well connected people hang out in the same circles. This same fallacy has been used as evidence for every conspiracy theory in history. If you connect the dots far enough you could probably make the case that the Queen of England is pushing for the Bills to move to San Antonio. It's all bad faith hatchet job nonsense. Edited August 21, 2021 by HappyDays 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Where do people find these news websites that look like they were designed in a high school computer class? Did you seek it out? Are you a subscriber? Here is the stated purpose of this "news organization": Breaking news - extremely rich and well connected people hang out in the same circles. This same fallacy has been used as evidence for every conspiracy theory in history. If you connect the dots far enough you could probably make the case that the Queen of England is pushing for the Bills to move to San Antonio. It's all bad faith hatchet job nonsense. Ah yes the Build-a-Bear conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Where do people find these news websites that look like they were designed in a high school computer class? Did you seek it out? Are you a subscriber? Here is the stated purpose of this "news organization": Breaking news - extremely rich and well connected people hang out in the same circles. This same fallacy has been used as evidence for every conspiracy theory in history. If you connect the dots far enough you could probably make the case that the Queen of England is pushing for the Bills to move to San Antonio. It's all bad faith hatchet job nonsense. Well said my friend, well said!!!! 🏆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florida Bills Fanatic Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Real high dollar negotiations are normally handled within a very small group. There will be people on the fringes (that want to be seen as important and involved but really aren't) that leak things to the media or others to fortify their own self importance. Most of this leaked information is mainly speculation and mostly wrong. When you combine this with the spin purposely spread by the two sides, you have a picture that is not remotely representative of the real negotiations. I have personally been involved in many large dollar contract negotiations and have seen this pattern of misinformation play out over and over. We should all just chill and let things run their course. There are too many constituents that want and need the Bills to remain in New York. I believe that it will play out that way in the end. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said: We should all just chill and let things run their course. There are too many constituents that want and need the Bills to remain in New York. I believe that it will play out that way in the end. Exactly. While it's true only a sith speaks in absolutes, here are some things that are 100% certain: The Bills will stay in Buffalo The new stadium will be partly funded by the Pegulas The new stadium will be mostly funded by the public. Is what it is. The details will get worked out and life will go on. And we'll all still be fans. Edited August 21, 2021 by DrDawkinstein 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconator Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 The only thing terrifying is the size of my stomach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 hour ago, RiotAct said: well, not necessarily. Aren’t there a lot of things that they can improve on over the original Rich Stadium that they couldn’t do with a mere renovation to the existing structure? (Not having the effects of the wind amplified for one). Yes there will be improvements to get it in line with what is needed today, but you are not changing toward the future - you are taking the existing idea and placing it in a new location- hopefully with enough room to grow in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Sounds like the Peguals are using the proper channels needed to get this sort of deal approved at the state level. Walking in with bells on saying pay or im leaving doesnt seem to be whats happening. The reports coming out are all painting the Pegulas in a bad light, why? Imo the wheels are already in motion for a new stadium and whoever is on the oppsite side of it isnt happy. Sounds to me as a late effort to sway the public and hault the process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 We’ve entered bizzaro world! I cannot believe that on a Bills Message Board I’d find people who oppose any public financing of a new stadium. Those comments should come from the general public who will NOT be attending games. How can this be so confusing to so many of you? There’re no free lunches in life. People who plan on attending games should want the cost spread over as many people as humanly possible! It’s not complicated. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospector Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 My goodness, whatever shall we do?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 2 hours ago, ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin said: Or having a building that is usable year round for other events may be an easier sell to the non football tax paying public Outdoor stadiums get used plenty. And Pegulas still own an entertainment company I assume, so you can expect concerts and stuff, at the very least. This is the most overused and misplaced argument, along with "it'll be super loud in a dome" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krf139 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 I could do without the underlying tone of this article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said: Yes there will be improvements to get it in line with what is needed today, but you are not changing toward the future - you are taking the existing idea and placing it in a new location- hopefully with enough room to grow in the future. In what way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, LeGOATski said: Outdoor stadiums get used plenty. And Pegulas still own an entertainment company I assume, so you can expect concerts and stuff, at the very least. This is the most overused and misplaced argument, along with "it'll be super loud in a dome" As long as the concert season or tour isn't from December to March.... A dome would be an all season crown jewel in PSG Entertainment's portfolio. Maybe I am projecting a bit as Rochester lacks a sufficient indoor location for large concert tours and indoor events. I'd be happy to shuffle off to Buffalo, or Orchard Park for a great venue and offseason event. I suppose the Sabres arena may already fit the bill, but then there is booking around the Sabres to consider. Edited August 21, 2021 by ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynard Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Gregory Rousseau is terrifying people. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts