EDIT: Total cost to taxpayers? Bills select sports firm to represent ownership in building new open air stadium in OP, targeted for 2025

[May Day 10]

Yeah, in the case of this football team, "Buffalo" is a general reference to the region/WNY.  It isn't an accidental slip on their covert plans to actually build the stadium downtown when literally all information points to Orchard Park

[DrDawkinstein]

31 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The articles mention the city because that's the trendy thing to say

 

The money issue almost makes it guaranteed it's not going downtown

 

You never hear Terry pegula talking about how he needs to build a downtown stadium .. it's all conjecture

 

 

 

At this point of negotiations, I'd take anything said publicly as meaning the exact opposite.

 

If the only thing Terry is saying publicly is that he wants to build on OP, then it's almost a guarantee he wants to build downtown. Now, agreed, the money/costs may prevent that. But there is no way he is showing his hand like that.

 

But it is all conjecture. Either way. We'll see...

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

At this point of negotiations, I'd take anything said publicly as meaning the exact opposite.

 

If the only thing Terry is saying publicly is that he wants to build on OP, then it's almost a guarantee he wants to build downtown. Now, agreed, the money/costs may prevent that. But there is no way he is showing his hand like that.

 

But it is all conjecture. Either way. We'll see...

Terry's owned the team for like 8 years... He has never once declared that his goal is to build a downtown stadium

 

Even pre-negotiations he never mentioned it really

 

He wants to build the stadium in the cheapest spot possible. And he already has land in orchard Park

 

If he wanted to build the stadium downtown he could have said it 7 years ago, that that was his goal... Never did 

 

I don't think it is 

 

He's talked about stadiums plenty

Edited August 18, 2021 by Buffalo716

[LeGOATski]

When has Terry ever said anything about anything? Honestly...

 

Besides when he bought the team: "We're gonna keep the Bills in Buffalo." 😁

 

[BuffaloBills1998]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

When has Terry ever said anything about anything? Honestly...

 

Besides when he bought the team: "We're gonna keep the Bills in Buffalo." 😁

 

That’s the main reason he bought the team, to keep them in Buffalo and out of Jovi’s hands. He’s not moving them

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Terry's owned the team for like 8 years... He has never once declared that his goal is to build a downtown stadium

 

Even pre-negotiations he never mentioned it really

 

He wants to build the stadium in the cheapest spot possible. And he already has land in orchard Park

 

If he wanted to build the stadium downtown he could have said it 7 years ago, that that was his goal... Never did 

 

I don't think it is 

 

He's talked about stadiums plenty

 

Youre talking like you know, for sure, every detail that has ever happened with regards to the stadium. And that Pegula would make those details public for some reason.

 

None of us do.

 

However, one thing I do know is that as early as 2014 the Pegulas had a specific project management firm in town and meeting with CITY officials to discuss the downtown stadium. They also ran numerous viability studies on what would have to be done to get it there. Now, it could be that those studies came back with bad numbers, on top of the meetings with city officials going sideways, and that has since pushed him to lean to OP... but the Pegulas have definitely done a lot of work and spent a lot of money to see what building a stadium downtown will take. No reason to do that if he never wanted to in the first place.

[SoCal Deek]

If you use an inflation calculator, Rich Stadium's 1973, construction cost of $20.0 Million equates to $125.0 Million today.  Sold!  What's the hold up....let's starting digging a hole. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

If you use an inflation calculator, Rich Stadium's 1973, construction cost of $20.0 Million equates to $125.0 Million today.  Sold!  What's the hold up....let's starting digging a hole. 

 

That's barely enough budget to pay YOU to design it!

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Youre talking like you know, for sure, every detail that has ever happened with regards to the stadium. And that Pegula would make those details public for some reason.

 

None of us do.

 

However, one thing I do know is that as early as 2014 the Pegulas had a specific project management firm in town and meeting with CITY officials to discuss the downtown stadium. They also ran numerous viability studies on what would have to be done to get it there. Now, it could be that those studies came back with bad numbers, on top of the meetings with city officials going sideways, and that has since pushed him to lean to OP... but the Pegulas have definitely done a lot of work and spent a lot of money to see what building a stadium downtown will take. No reason to do that if he never wanted to in the first place.

I'm not talking like I know what's happening.. I'm just using common sense

 

And a downtown stadium is going to cost closer to 2 billion dollars if not more

 

Those Downtown stadium  project talks did say that the Buffalo outer harbor is no longer a destination ... So the last place is probably around the sabres arena .. and that's probably a 2 billion dollar project

 

I'm just using common sense and we're building the cheapest stadium possible

Edited August 18, 2021 by Buffalo716

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I'm not talking like I know what's happening.. I'm just using common sense

 

And a downtown stadium is going to cost closer to 2 billion dollars if not more

 

Those Downtown stadium  project talks did say that the Buffalo outer harbor is no longer a destination ... So the last place is probably around the sabres arena .. and that's probably a 2 billion dollar project

 

I'm just using common sense and we're building the cheapest stadium possible

 

That isnt even close to the points you were trying to make in your previous posts. But ok.

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

That isnt even close to the points you were trying to make in your previous posts. But ok.

My point in the last post was pretty simple. Terry pegula has owned the team for a long time... 

 

And he's never publicly declared that he wanted to build a stadium downtown.. he's talked about a stadium a lot

 

And I just think if it was 100% his goal to get it downtown.. he would have mentioned it once in the last 8 years that that's where he really wants it

 

When you add in the money costs yeah I think it's common sense that it's not

 

I don't care where it goes I just don't think it's going downtown

Edited August 18, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

That’s the main reason he bought the team, to keep them in Buffalo and out of Jovi’s hands. He’s not moving them

 

The MAIN reason was to make his wife and she wanted to keep them in Buffalo and out of Jovi’s hands.

 

Terry rubs Sabres; Kim runs Bills.

[Patrick Duffy]

12 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

The MAIN reason was to make his wife and she wanted to keep them in Buffalo and out of Jovi’s hands.

 

Terry rubs Sabres; Kim runs Bills.

You do see and hear Kim being involved with many things regarding Bills. Don't hear Terry's name like that. Does kinda seem like she runs the show.

[Punching Bag]

Just now, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

You do see and hear Kim being involved with many things regarding Bills. Don't hear Terry's name like that. Does kinda seem like she runs the show.

 

She is the one who goes to team meetings not him.

He does have other businesses to pay attention to so that is part of reason.

[nkreed]

The placement of a stadium downtown is not out of the question on their currently owned parking lots. Would it be tough to get to, yup. Would there be ZERO parking, yup. But placing a stadium downtown is not too difficult to imagine. In fact with the recent massive construction projects happening around there, it could be said that maybe it's been in the plans for a while, upto and including the DL&W terminal, it sure seems like they have been working on that infrastructure. They would find a way to connect the arena, HarborCenter and the stadium and could get the Lucas Oil Stadium look.

 

Just wanting to toss out that is not out of the realm of possibility.

[Punching Bag]

 

I will say he is happy to join in anything which helps the team like the Christmas video.

 

No way do I see a lot of owners doing that type of thing.

[Patrick Duffy]

6 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

She is the one who goes to team meetings not him.

He does have other businesses to pay attention to so that is part of reason.

Yeah I'm aware he has other things and whatnot. Anyway I must say everything Kim does handle and the way she seems to handle it all, she's is and has been doing a hell of a job. Also seems to be involved with the community as well. Really like her myself

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

However, one thing I do know is that as early as 2014 the Pegulas had a specific project management firm in town and meeting with CITY officials to discuss the downtown stadium. They also ran numerous viability studies on what would have to be done to get it there. Now, it could be that those studies came back with bad numbers, on top of the meetings with city officials going sideways, and that has since pushed him to lean to OP... but the Pegulas have definitely done a lot of work and spent a lot of money to see what building a stadium downtown will take. No reason to do that if he never wanted to in the first place.

 

All true and that's why as of now I'm not convinced the DT location is totally dead.  There was a lot of land speculation going on in the

Perry/1st Ward in 2014-2016 when that was being discussed.  I'm not a taxpayer in WNY but I am intrigued with this whole process.

 

One thing about all of this is the Pegula's have had a long time to look all this over and the "negotiations" are just going to start.

[Buffalo716]

52 minutes ago, nkreed said:

The placement of a stadium downtown is not out of the question on their currently owned parking lots. Would it be tough to get to, yup. Would there be ZERO parking, yup. But placing a stadium downtown is not too difficult to imagine. In fact with the recent massive construction projects happening around there, it could be said that maybe it's been in the plans for a while, upto and including the DL&W terminal, it sure seems like they have been working on that infrastructure. They would find a way to connect the arena, HarborCenter and the stadium and could get the Lucas Oil Stadium look.

 

Just wanting to toss out that is not out of the realm of possibility.

The money to upgrade the infrastructure is almost out of the question

[Punching Bag]

40 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The money to upgrade the infrastructure is almost out of the question

 

That is part which should be most responsible by state and local jurisdictions.

 

For cost of stadium itself it should be paid for by a lease which is binding enough to pay for costs and maintenance.

Right now inflation is very low* and they should between NFL and local authorities bonds to pay for it.

 

 

* Inflation is not as low as government tends to understate and when numbers do not match expectations government appointed overseers instruct to change how things are calculated.

[BillnutinHouston]

What are you trying to say, Lime?  Not one of those sentences made sense. 

 

Maybe try again later when you sober up.   

Edited August 19, 2021 by BillnutinHouston

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Why are fans so angry at the Pegulas? It's the weirdest fan anger towards an owner I've ever seen. They've dropped so much money into Western New York. 

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Why are fans so angry at the Pegulas? It's the weirdest fan anger towards an owner I've ever seen. They've dropped so much money into Western New York. 

 

 

 

This is especially confusing to me because the choice that was leaked: Open air and in OP both are choices that benefit the fans over the owner.

 

People should be thanking the Pegula’s for listening to what they want - the fans wanted cheaper prices and tailgating as some of the more important features of a new stadium and for once you have owners that listened.

 

The things that benefit individual fans in OP also benefit the Pegula’s financially - which is a win/win.  A higher public financed amount - by any means - helps lower or eliminate PSLs and keeps ticket prices down as the Cost is spread across a wider group rather than just users.  This should allow for the Pegula’s to maintain a profit and people to continue to get season tickets and tailgate.

 

As I have said before - I believe the ideal situation for the Pegula’s would be a downtown Stadium - near the Arena where visitors/opposing teams use their hotels and visit their restaurants and bring them more money, but I think they saw that OP would be cheaper and make things better for fans - so they divested some of those things and went with the OP route.

 

The people that should be mad are the non-fans that will have their money invested into this new stadium, but that was occurring either way.  The Bills fans whether local or outside the area should not be angry with the Pegula’s - even if in the end it becomes 80-100% publicly financed because the choice in OP was done strictly for the fans as it is the least logical choice based upon what the Pegula’s own and where and what would be most helpful to get additional funds to improve much needed infrastructure in the city.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

16 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

That's barely enough budget to pay YOU to design it!

I’ll do it for half that. I’ll have it done by Monday morning at the latest. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[DrDawkinstein]

5 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Why are fans so angry at the Pegulas? It's the weirdest fan anger towards an owner I've ever seen. They've dropped so much money into Western New York. 

 

 

 

Two things that I can tell:

 

1. They're mad about the Sabres, not the Bills, and projecting from there.

2. They havent had much to complain about with the Bills in over 3 years, and we just don't know how to deal with that as a fanbase, so all that bottled up anger is coming out at the first little thing that pops up.

[Wayne Cubed]

40 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Two things that I can tell:

 

1. They're mad about the Sabres, not the Bills, and projecting from there.

2. They havent had much to complain about with the Bills in over 3 years, and we just don't know how to deal with that as a fanbase, so all that bottled up anger is coming out at the first little thing that pops up.

 

I'd probably also add that they are Billionaires as well, that bothers people with regards to paying for things.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Two things that I can tell:

 

1. They're mad about the Sabres, not the Bills, and projecting from there.

2. They havent had much to complain about with the Bills in over 3 years, and we just don't know how to deal with that as a fanbase, so all that bottled up anger is coming out at the first little thing that pops up.

But they've spent crazy amounts of money on the Sabres. Developed amateur hockey downtown and brought the NHL combine to Buffalo. 

 

Fans were angry at the Pegulas for keeping Regier and Ruff also. Sabres fans are just extremely angry all the time. I went to a Sabres game a few years ago and the place erupted in boo's in the 1st period. It was miserable. 

[May Day 10]

The Sabres of the past 10 years make the Bills' drought years appear like the Golden Years.

 

Its unreal to take a step back and litigate how poorly that franchise has been managed, especially in light of how it was in really good/decent shape when they took it over (on and off the ice).  All the team needed was a fresh Team President and replace the generally stale and past their expiration date GM and Coach, and they have made literally every wrong decision since.

 

Harbor Center is great, but it has been abandoned to a degree.  Much of their website is full of broken links.  There isnt much information on there (for instance, if you click on a tournament scheduled for a few weeks, a month, or the rest of the season for more info, it says that you should check back later for more information).  The Academy of Hockey has been completely abandoned or something.  716 is changing hands, the Labatt House hasnt opened since the pandemic, a lot of their stuff down there has been poorly managed.

 

Also, a lot of the bad press of generally draconian measures for an absolute bloodletting of Sabres employees apparently due to cost (who weren't replaced).  Timing it with the report that the morale at the organization was terrible and the employees were given a handout with the famous "preserving our lifestyle" nonsense.

 

Without them, it is likely the Bills would not be here anymore.  I get that.  I appreciate that and don't lose focus.  The Bills seem to be run completely different than the hockey team, but I also fear if/when we get our Linda Bogdan moment.

 

However, I understand people's frustration from this family when a report comes out that they want fully-public $1.5 billion to fund their stadium, along with thinly veiled 'threats' (although I haven't seen anything too concerning to me).  I personally havent complained because nothing concrete has come out of the negotiations at all (and I have been on board with the Orchard Park option).  I knew this step would be awkward due to the Pegula's unwavering commitment to Buffalo, but also wanting public money at this juncture.

 

 

 

As far as the Sabres go.  I went from watching probably 95-98% of all their games from about 1987 - 2013, to last season probably watching a (1) combined full game.  I was a long-term season ticket holder who cancelled the day the general manager appeared to celebrate that things were great because the team 'was in a position to be in games'.  They have completely ruined the Sabres and the NHL for me.  I cannot take any pride in this organization at all.  

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by May Day 10

[nucci]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

But they've spent crazy amounts of money on the Sabres. Developed amateur hockey downtown and brought the NHL combine to Buffalo. 

 

Fans were angry at the Pegulas for keeping Regier and Ruff also. Sabres fans are just extremely angry all the time. I went to a Sabres game a few years ago and the place erupted in boo's in the 1st period. It was miserable. 

it's hard not to be . They are a poorly run organization

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, nucci said:

it's hard not to be . They are a poorly run organization

I never understand booing your team. That arena is miserable. It's been like that for a while. 

[Punching Bag]

7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Why are fans so angry at the Pegulas? It's the weirdest fan anger towards an owner I've ever seen. They've dropped so much money into Western New York. 

 

Some are so used to being used as puppets in campaigns recently that even when the strings are very weak they start lighting their torches and sharpening their pitchforks.

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

This is especially confusing to me because the choice that was leaked: Open air and in OP both are choices that benefit the fans over the owner.

 

People should be thanking the Pegula’s for listening to what they want - the fans wanted cheaper prices and tailgating as some of the more important features of a new stadium and for once you have owners that listened.

 

The things that benefit individual fans in OP also benefit the Pegula’s financially - which is a win/win.  A higher public financed amount - by any means - helps lower or eliminate PSLs and keeps ticket prices down as the Cost is spread across a wider group rather than just users.  This should allow for the Pegula’s to maintain a profit and people to continue to get season tickets and tailgate.

 

As I have said before - I believe the ideal situation for the Pegula’s would be a downtown Stadium - near the Arena where visitors/opposing teams use their hotels and visit their restaurants and bring them more money, but I think they saw that OP would be cheaper and make things better for fans - so they divested some of those things and went with the OP route.

 

The people that should be mad are the non-fans that will have their money invested into this new stadium, but that was occurring either way.  The Bills fans whether local or outside the area should not be angry with the Pegula’s - even if in the end it becomes 80-100% publicly financed because the choice in OP was done strictly for the fans as it is the least logical choice based upon what the Pegula’s own and where and what would be most helpful to get additional funds to improve much needed infrastructure in the city.

 

 

They have the harbor center but I don't believe they have any more restaurants .. or any restaurants left open

 

They sold 716 ..and labatt brew house which is still closed ... bakery 55 idk...  the pegula daughters do own like a little homemade boutique healthy scratch  

 

But even if the stadium was downtown I don't know how many people you're getting to those three locations... The hotel would bring in a lot more money

Edited August 19, 2021 by Buffalo716

[May Day 10]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I never understand booing your team. That arena is miserable. It's been like that for a while. 

 

The Sabres have not had a 'big' game or a game that has meant anything for 10 years.  The life has been sucked out of the arena.  Not to mention, IMO the NHL product itself has gotten very boring.

 

The Pegulas have had a habit of hanging onto bad management/coaching well past the time it is clear they need to move on.  At this point, the booing really gets bad.  people are expressing displeasure with management.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

13 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

The Sabres of the past 10 years make the Bills' drought years appear like the Golden Years.

 

Its unreal to take a step back and litigate how poorly that franchise has been managed, especially in light of how it was in really good/decent shape when they took it over (on and off the ice).  All the team needed was a fresh Team President and replace the generally stale and past their expiration date GM and Coach, and they have made literally every wrong decision since.

 

Harbor Center is great, but it has been abandoned to a degree.  Much of their website is full of broken links.  There isnt much information on there (for instance, if you click on a tournament scheduled for a few weeks, a month, or the rest of the season for more info, it says that you should check back later for more information).  The Academy of Hockey has been completely abandoned or something.  716 is changing hands, the Labatt House hasnt opened since the pandemic, a lot of their stuff down there has been poorly managed.

 

Also, a lot of the bad press of generally draconian measures for an absolute bloodletting of Sabres employees apparently due to cost (who weren't replaced).  Timing it with the report that the morale at the organization was terrible and the employees were given a handout with the famous "preserving our lifestyle" nonsense.

 

Without them, it is likely the Bills would not be here anymore.  I get that.  I appreciate that and don't lose focus.  The Bills seem to be run completely different than the hockey team, but I also fear if/when we get our Linda Bogdan moment.

 

However, I understand people's frustration from this family when a report comes out that they want fully-public $1.5 billion to fund their stadium, along with thinly veiled 'threats' (although I haven't seen anything too concerning to me).  I personally havent complained because nothing concrete has come out of the negotiations at all (and I have been on board with the Orchard Park option).  I knew this step would be awkward due to the Pegula's unwavering commitment to Buffalo, but also wanting public money at this juncture.

 

 

 

As far as the Sabres go.  I went from watching probably 95-98% of all their games from about 1987 - 2013, to last season probably watching a combined full game.  I was a long-term season ticket holder who cancelled the day the general manager appeared to celebrate that things were great because the team 'was in a position to be in games'.  They have completely ruined the Sabres and the NHL for me.  I cannot take any pride in this organization at all.  

 

They've made pretty much all the wrong decisions, that's obvious. Does that make them bad owners? I'm not sure why they haven't gone out and hired some experienced NHL front office guy to fix the problems. They've brought players to Buffalo. They just can't figure out management and coaching. 

[May Day 10]

I do believe there will be a somewhat amicable deal for a stadium before too long, and hopefully the Bills have a nice stretch here and the Pegulas foster a sustainable franchise that competes.

 

I have heard from a decent source that the Sabres are for sale

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

They have the harbor center but I don't believe they have any more restaurants .. or any restaurants left

 

They sold 716 ..and labatt brew house which is still closed ...  the pegula daughters do own like a little homemade boutique healthy scratch but that's it I think

They've dumped a lot of money into the city and likely didn't see much of a return. Bad investments. 

[Rochesterfan]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

They have the harbor center but I don't believe they have any more restaurants .. or any restaurants

 

They sold 716 .. the pegula daughters do own like a little homemade boutique healthy scratch but that's it I think

 

That why I said they have been divesting themselves of these things.

 

I think years ago they were hoping to buy up and move things downtown, but over the last 3 years that has changed to the point they have been moving on from restaurants/bars around the arena downtown.

 

I think they saw the OP site as the future stadium site and then coupled with the pandemic- have moved on from that area.

 

[nucci]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I never understand booing your team. That arena is miserable. It's been like that for a while. 

the team is miserable. How can you not be pissed at this?

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They've dumped a lot of money into the city and likely didn't see much of a return. Bad investments. 

716 was terribly run 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

The Sabres have not had a 'big' game or a game that has meant anything for 10 years.  The life has been sucked out of the arena.  Not to mention, IMO the NHL product itself has gotten very boring.

 

The Pegulas have had a habit of hanging onto bad management/coaching well past the time it is clear they need to move on.  At this point, the booing really gets bad.  people are expressing displeasure with management.  

The Pegulas have been battling local media since they arrived. Local media and fans were all over them for keeping Regier and Ruff after they just made the playoffs. 

 

Then the whole tank disaster happened which fans and most media supported. A 2-3 year stretch of losing to draft high. People talk about 10 years but when you dismantle everything just to lose for multiple years it's difficult to rebuild. There were no draft picks developing properly. Then when we drafted Eichel there was no organizational depth. 

 

No one wants to admit how much of a failure the tank was. Set the organization back. 

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

716 was terribly run 

Yes it was. Expensive also. 

5 minutes ago, nucci said:

the team is miserable. How can you not be pissed at this?

I am. I don't boo the team. 

9 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

I do believe there will be a somewhat amicable deal for a stadium before too long, and hopefully the Bills have a nice stretch here and the Pegulas foster a sustainable franchise that competes.

 

I have heard from a decent source that the Sabres are for sale

I wouldn't be shocked. The Sabres will likely leave Buffalo if sold.