Batman1876 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 I've been reading a lot of pre draft analysis this week and realized that Allen has already proven them wrong, regardless of what happens from here. Thigs like his ceiling is Ryan Mallet, the next Jake Locker or Kyle Boller, I'd rather have Tyrod as my starter for the next 4 years, He wont be ready to start for 3 or 4 years if ever, Rosen will have a far better career than Allen. All of these are already wrong. The question it's raised for me is what did all these experts fail to notice about Josh Allen? The Bills took him because they saw those takes were wrong, what did they see? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 His ball placement has improved so much. The only answer for such and improvement is hard work combined with good coaching. Many including myself didn’t believe that even with hard work his ball placement could be improved this much. Not to mention the QB coach his rookie year was not exactly a QB guru. The signs pointed to disaster. I had no trust that the coach who drafted and started Peterman, Zay Jones, and traded for Benjamin, Would be able to develop a project QB in a pass-first offense. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Beane did a Jedi mind trick, telling everyone, "This is not the QB you're looking for." 7 20 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 I think the Bills saw what he could do without a supporting cast. They salivated over what he'd do with one. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 One word: He has a ***** huuuge heart. 9 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 I'm not sure who the draft experts who said those things were, but I know they're out there. Not everyone missed, Mel Kiper had him as the number 1 pick potentially the year before. Others like our very own Bandit as well. One group who completely got it wrong and continues to qualify anything good about Josh Allen, such as calling him a unicorn, is the stats model crowds. They're lost if they can't look at a guys a stats and see who fits the model- Baker Mayfield anyone. Allen had no such numbers and requires thorough old-school evaluation and imagination as to what he could be potentially. Film work and getting to know the athlete and his makeup are important. It is not a simple as a model. 16 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 What people missed is what people miss about all great athletes Their desire to win and improve at all costs 16 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiserplayer Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Corn bread, biscuits, hustle, desire!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralonzo Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Golden Goat said: I think the Bills saw what he could do without a supporting cast. They salivated over what he'd do with one. As I recall it was watching Allen work at the Senior Bowl with upper-level college talent, taking coaching and applying it immediately and with results, that convinced McBeane. Edit: "We're seeing Josh Allen become the player we all thought he was" Edited September 30, 2020 by Ralonzo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield played for much bigger programs... better OLs, more weapons.. Allen played for a team that had little to no NFL talent.. So of course they looked at the stats, the saw these other guys completing 65% of their passes and Allen was at 55%.. They saw the highlight videos and all the TD celebrations with Eminem jam tracks playing in the back.. Then there were many like me, who saw a guy with an elite arm and just a gifted athlete overall with some mechanical issues, accuracy issues, maybe not as well coached up as the others and about as raw as could be for an NFL prospect.. we saw that he could be a top 2-3 QB if he got his issues worked out... many like myself wondered if he’d piece it all together... for that reason he dropped... little did we know he had the heart of a lion.. You can’t measure heart, but the talent has very much always been there.. Allen worked hard for years to get to where he’s at... now his coaching is even with Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen except he is 1,000x more talented than them and just about every QB in the league for that matter...the brains finally match the brawn.... 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiserplayer Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 I wonder if Allen was Beane’s 🎯 all along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haslett_Stomp Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: What people missed is what people miss about all great athletes Their desire to win and improve at all costs It kills me to say it but that is why a certain QB wasn't drafted until the 6th round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 The problem with Josh was never his ceiling. The real question was what is his floor? He had a long way to go, and he’s made AMAZING strides! Hats off to Josh for all the hard work and the FO for trusting in him. What looked like a gamble then now looks like a steal. PLEASE keep this up! Just now, Haslett_Stomp said: It kills me to say it but that is why a certain QB wasn't drafted until the 6th round. He had not yet discovered avocado ice cream? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Because many of these scouts and GMs are like some of the know-it-alls here at TBD where only big boys from big boy programs who put up big time college stats can only be successful. Remember the heated debate this summer where forum members were saying Fromm was gonna challenge Allen for the job. That was a fun debate; of course many of those posters are eating their words now. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Batman1876 said: I've been reading a lot of pre draft analysis this week and realized that Allen has already proven them wrong, regardless of what happens from here. Thigs like his ceiling is Ryan Mallet, the next Jake Locker or Kyle Boller, I'd rather have Tyrod as my starter for the next 4 years, He wont be ready to start for 3 or 4 years if ever, Rosen will have a far better career than Allen. All of these are already wrong. The question it's raised for me is what did all these experts fail to notice about Josh Allen? The Bills took him because they saw those takes were wrong, what did they see? They failed to take his character into account. Here's a kid that no one wanted coming out of high school who willed himself into the NFL. He always had the physical gifts, but he also has the commitment and discipline to hone those gifts to their maximum effect. Edited October 1, 2020 by PromoTheRobot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 His heart 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman1876 Posted September 30, 2020 Author Share Posted September 30, 2020 I think they missed how many fewer reps he had than the other top guys. He didn't go to elite QB camps, he didn't transfer high schools to go to a better football program and he went to a sub par college program as a result. The more you practice something the more you see diminishing returns, Josh has yet to hit that diminishing returns phase and other Josh was there before the draft. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Go back and read any number of my posts over the past couple of years. They ignored his relative lack of experience and exposure. They ignored his character. They didn’t properly consider the desire of a kid who had to solicit colleges for an offer. They didn’t bother to look further than the stats, and they passed off the physical traits as meaningless due to a perceived lack of understanding of how to play QB. We should all be very thankful that our scouts and GM did the research and could see what few saw. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Still the flaw with statistical qualifiers is they cannot judge heart, makeup of the player, work ethic and just desire to get better. Bills saw a piece of clay and thought with the right structure and after talking to Allen and learning his desire to be great and heart they took the entire package and thought they could mold that clay. without Josh’s heart and desire that clay stays just that a ball of clay with the tools. Aka Jamarcus Russell 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 What they missed is the same thing that I missed in my first go-around scouting him: he didn’t have accuracy problems. The ball goes where he wants it to go—provided he doesn’t rush his process and keeps his lower body balance consistent. Once I noticed that, it became a question of whether the kid wants to be great badly enough to build the kind of mechanical consistency it takes to rid himself of erratic throws, and whether he possessed the ability to process well enough for the game to slow down. I gave him the benefit of the doubt there... 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Batman1876 said: I think they missed how many fewer reps he had than the other top guys. He didn't go to elite QB camps, he didn't transfer high schools to go to a better football program and he went to a sub par college program as a result. The more you practice something the more you see diminishing returns, Josh has yet to hit that diminishing returns phase and other Josh was there before the draft. This a really good point! Yes he had heart, but he also had a ton of talent and a tremendous lack of experience compared to most high picks. What that says is he had a lot of room to get better, thus a really high ceiling. Edited September 30, 2020 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) I think where they missed was that they looked at the results of all the problems Josh had and not the causes. Surrounding cast, inexperience, and mechanics these were all problems Josh had but they were all fixable. Beane did look and with those fixable problems and with his incredible physical talent and drive he was a project worth working on. Edited September 30, 2020 by Warcodered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Simply put, you can’t accurately predict QB’s in the NFL. When I pounded the table for Allen with my friends, I did so with the disclaimer that no one can predict QB’s. They were certain Rosen was going to be a star and Allen would be a dud. It doesn’t matter if you are a casual NFL fan or a 20 year scout, you will do just as well throwing darts at a board when predicting QB success. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Thank God the Jets didn't pick him at three. I attended most of the Wyoming home games and my seat was along the stairwell by the press boxes and I remember seeing the Jet scouts all the time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Watching him play now, it's pretty clear what McBeane saw in him. They looked past the numbers and saw his otherworldly natural physical gifts, will to win, superior intelligence, likeability and leadership qualities. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 That if the raw skill is there, and the desire to improve upon them, then players can be coached up. The echo chamber of numbers and stats can become insulated from reality and the nuances of any subject and can be taken too far when projecting. Numbers and stats are good tools to help diagnose where a player's skills are at and where they need to improve. But they are not a good tool to project how a young player with skills will develop when placed in the right system. It begs a system that evolves and captures trends sans bias. Take evaluations of analysts with a grain of salt and listen closely to those given from individuals with position expertise, especially those who have played the position. They will capture numerous details that are lost on most of us. QBs that worked with Allen noted he was scary accurate hitting a spot when not moving or resetting - this tells you he is not inaccurate by nature, but loses accuracy when moving and resetting. If approached objectively you are not starting with an inaccurate QB but one whose mechanical issues moving and resetting are driving the loss of accuracy. Fix those and you can leverage the natural accuracy he possesses. He had no touch - a deeper look found a raw prospect who was not reading defenses or throwing with anticipation to where his receiver was going to be; rather, he was waiting for guys to break open then firing the ball with plenty of sauce to beat the coverage. This was addressed through coaching to understand and read defenses and knowing where his receivers were going to be, and knowing where the ball needs to be, and trusting he will not throw an INT. Along the same lines, he appears to have gotten some good coaching on mechanics as well from successful veteran QBs that has helped him take some off heat off his throws and lead his targets with more catchable balls. He can still throw on a rope when needed. Hard to separate all of these because they all work together to improve results in the passing game. Most of all, be patient and qualify statements when it comes to something dynamic and multifaceted like player development. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman1876 Posted September 30, 2020 Author Share Posted September 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: This a really good point! Yes he had heart, but he also had a ton of talent and a tremendous lack of experience compared to most high picks. What that says is he had a lot of room to get better, thus a really high ceiling. I think this is why Josh is moving along faster than baker as well. Baker had a will to win and heart too, but Josh is just making bigger gains because he's "younger" in his experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 I have always thought and heard from "experts" that accuracy can not be taught. You either have it or don't. I was way off. Allen has proven so many including myself wrong and I love it!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 They saw that he wanted it more. He wants everything more than everyone. So they wanted him more. And he wanted them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 57 minutes ago, Batman1876 said: I've been reading a lot of pre draft analysis this week and realized that Allen has already proven them wrong, regardless of what happens from here. Thigs like his ceiling is Ryan Mallet, the next Jake Locker or Kyle Boller, I'd rather have Tyrod as my starter for the next 4 years, He wont be ready to start for 3 or 4 years if ever, Rosen will have a far better career than Allen. All of these are already wrong. The question it's raised for me is what did all these experts fail to notice about Josh Allen? The Bills took him because they saw those takes were wrong, what did they see? They missed the fact that he is a dog that has been proving ppl wrong his whole life 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Brian Billick was on One Bills Live today. He wrote a book titled "The Q Factor" discussing the 2018 QB draft class and measuring their ability to succeed based on a number of factors. He said that what Allen has been able to achieve with respect to his accuracy, you just don't see. The Bills obviously saw a successful QB despite what conventional wisdom would dictate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) Haven’t read the whole thread, but I think the biggest thing people missed was how much being a late bloomer who never received top notch coaching and guidance hindered his technical, mental, and emotional understanding of the game. Most first round NFL QB’s have been groomed for 5 years with QB camps, high school, and colleges all aimed at developing him. Josh was behind on all of that (partially because he didn’t grow into the hulk of a human he is now until late) and it caused his development to slow down. He’s the quintessential high school girl (or guy) that nobody looks at who shows up at college and everyone loses their mind over cause she was a late bloomer. Edited September 30, 2020 by whatdrought 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, John from Riverside said: They missed the fact that he is a dog that has been proving ppl wrong his whole life That has certainly been true. I think this is a VERY important question: How much did the landing spot make a difference? Arizona, Cleveland and the Jets were absolute dumpster fires. Rosen didn't get much better in Miami. Josh got a stable organization on the rise with good coaching. I’m NOT making a statement, I’m asking a question. What do you think? What would Josh look like today if he was a Brown or a Jet? . . Edited October 1, 2020 by Augie 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 33 minutes ago, NewEra said: His heart Exactly ^^^ and his WILL !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 The real story around the draft and Josh is, who tossed out the tweets a day or two prior to the draft, suggesting Josh was racist. And how did that impact and influence who drafted him. If at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Pokebball said: The real story around the draft and Josh is, who tossed out the tweets a day or two prior to the draft, suggesting Josh was racist. And how did that impact and influence who drafted him. If at all. 😈 Bean BAHAHA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 For too many teams and analysts it’s more about what can he do Year 1 than it is about what can he do by Year 3 and beyond if given time to develop and learn the mental side of the game. Allen by all measures had the raw talent, and character to succeed. The question was how would he develop mentally in processing, learning and refining his game. Allen has certainly improved but I could make the argument he would have been the next Aaron Rodgers if the Bills picked Lamar Jackson instead and he slid to the Patriots and was given two years as Brady’s understudy. There is no doubt in my mind he would be terrorizing and scaring the hell out of us if he slid to the late 1st round and the Patriots scooped him up. Belichick almost certainly was hoping for this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Batman1876 said: I've been reading a lot of pre draft analysis this week and realized that Allen has already proven them wrong, regardless of what happens from here. Thigs like his ceiling is Ryan Mallet, the next Jake Locker or Kyle Boller, I'd rather have Tyrod as my starter for the next 4 years, He wont be ready to start for 3 or 4 years if ever, Rosen will have a far better career than Allen. All of these are already wrong. The question it's raised for me is what did all these experts fail to notice about Josh Allen? The Bills took him because they saw those takes were wrong, what did they see? Clearly they missed the "Legend of Josh Allen" thread below.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) OP seems a bit extreme. Did any of the real draft experts not expect him to be a 1st round pick? The draft is a crapshoot. Everyone tries to form an opinion because that is what they are paid to do. Reality is millions of dollars are spent analyzing guys and everyone still gets it wrong more often than right. I would say most draft experts were right on Allen in many ways. I think what they did not expect is his athletic ability to translate so well to the NFL. That has helped give him the time to work on the rest of his game which he has done an excellent job of doing. When he was drafted most expected a bumpy ride, but also said the sky is the limit if he figures it out. That ride to the sky is getting much less bumpy. Enjoy it. Edited September 30, 2020 by ngbills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Two hardest decisions in sports: drafting a QB and picking a HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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