[Moderator Edit -last 2 pages] Moss and Knox vs. Rams

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Knox is super important to how our offense is run. He fills a nice H-Back roll. Kroft CANNOT fill that roll. Its not about pass catching. Its about how Knox lines up all over, and can block from numerous spots on the filed--Kroft just cannot do that. 

Gilliam will fill that role.

[PaattMaann]

23 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I like how many have turned on Moss after just TWO games.  He went from being part of the dynamic duo for the next 5-6 years to being terrible in less than a span of a month. 
 

 

Keep up the good work...I guess someone has to be the whipping boy. 

 

I dont think thats what people are saying, but way to use hyperbole. I think what people are saying, or at least what I am saying, is that its not a huge loss to the offense if Moss doesnt play this week. He is a young RB learning the game at the NFL level, itll come but right now its not the worst thing if we get to feed Devin more. 

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

You know, I was beginning to wonder if I was the only person who thought this about Moss.  I thought he had some of the quickness and shiftiness that Singletary has, with a little more power.  But Singletary is just barely quick enough to make himself effective, and so far Moss has looked to me to be just short of being quick enough.  He doesn't out-quick anyone and he doesn't outpower anyone.   Maybe it's the blocking, maybe it's the scheme, maybe he hasn't adjusted yet, maybe it's a lot of things, but I don't think missing him for a week is a huge loss.  

 

Losing Knox hurts more - he HAS shown that his skills can make a difference on the field, but still, I'm not too concerned about it.  Receivers get open because of scheme - Knox isn't one to get open by using special separation skills.  He gets open because the the offense is attacking the called defense in a way that leaves an opening that the tight end runs to.  Knox is good at it, but Gilliam can do it well enough.  Will there be a drop off?  Sure, but not one that should matter all that much.   Plus, I think we'll see Davis on the field in some of the tight formations where we were seeing Knox in the slot or split out just a couple of yards.  Obviously, Davis isn't the blocking threat Knox is in the running game, but Knox's blocking isn't striking fear in the hearts of linebackers around the league, either. 

 

I am not as worried about Knox because they had Kroft filling the HB role and he was fine on several plays.  I think Gilliam can fit in to that also.

 

I do worry a bit about Moss only because I believe we do not great RB depth and I think activating TJ Yeldon helps the pass game, but I get concerned about the running game.

[Rc2catch]

As mentioned Knox is the big loss if Edmunds and Milano play. He’s a mismatch all over the field and even when he’s not targeted Knox has to be accounted for by defenses because of his speed. Blocking can be schemed, raw athleticism cannot. That’s the big loss. 
Moss being out makes me nervous only in the regard we may see more designed runs for Allen, and that’s a little scary with Aaron Donald on the field. Yeldon is gonna be active so please for the love of god daboll keep improving the screen game cause this might be the best week to utilize it and build off the success we’ve had so far this year. 

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Knox is super important to how our offense is run. He fills a nice H-Back roll. Kroft CANNOT fill that roll. Its not about pass catching. Its about how Knox lines up all over, and can block from numerous spots on the filed--Kroft just cannot do that. 

 

Not sure why you think Kroft can’t fill that role.  He did it just fine after Knox went out against Miami.  
 

Watch the Cover 1 highlights - at 43 and 53 minutes you see the long pass to Diggs and the TD to Brown both used Kroft as the HB and on the Diggs play he blocked the end 1:1 just fine.  He was also wide open on the Brown TD - along the sideline.

 

I assume - although that play was not included - that Kroft was also on the field on the misread with Brown that was almost picked.  I believe they used the same personnel on the next play which was the TD.

 

There did not seem to be any issues.  He looked just fine and would expect that to continue.

[Locomark]

Sorry but all the people saying Moss didn’t make a difference are missing something. Last year when Gore came in we had a noticeable drop off and the other teams knew it. Moss was an equal contributor to Devin and probably better at pass protection. He will be missed. 

 

Knox is missed less because Kroft can take his blocking role, as others have pointed out, and Gabriel can pick up his receiving spot if we want to spread the field. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Locomark

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Kroft, Yeldon, and Lee Smith will be fine. Smith may have even played over Kroft this week if Knox was healthy.  Expect more rushing attempts from Singletary and Allen this week.

Still however unless they are rushing really well early, I expect to still see a lot of 4 WR sets and keep the back into help block Donald.  Bills 4 WRs are better than their secondary. If they try to take way Diggs look for Beasley and Kroft to eat them up underneath just like Miami did to Buffalo.

[CSBill]

As I have declared many times, Reggie Gilliam will be the man. He has a break out day on Sunday. You can acknowledge my brilliance in the postgame afterglow threads.🤣 You’re Welcome!

Edited September 25, 2020 by CSBill

[RyanC883]

3 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Knox is super important to how our offense is run. He fills a nice H-Back roll. Kroft CANNOT fill that roll. Its not about pass catching. Its about how Knox lines up all over, and can block from numerous spots on the filed--Kroft just cannot do that. 

 

yep,  Knox is underappreciated. Gilliam is the one who will have to pick up that role.  

12 minutes ago, CSBill said:

As I have declared many times, Reggie Gilliam will be the man. He has a break out day in Sunday. You can acknowledge my brilliance in the postgame afterglow threads.🤣 You’re Welcome!

I love the fandom and certainty here.  I hope your right! 

Edited September 25, 2020 by RyanC883

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Don't worry your little heart darlin'.

 

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2020/04/udfa-tracker-who-did-buffalo-bills-sign-after-2020-nfl-draft.html

 

Reggie Gilliam has confirmed that he will be joining the Bills roster as an UDFA.

Gilliam is viewed as an outstanding blocker and special teams standout.

That’s what I kinda thought was the analysis on Gilliam coming out. Hopefully he can learn the playbook enough to fill in at the H-Back more this week.

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He moves like he has lead in his boots. It is the difference between he and Singletary. Neither is fast, but Singletary has fast feet. Moss looks the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man out of Ghostbusters lifting his legs up and putting them down again.

 

I didn't really feel that way.  I think he's looked pretty good personally.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I have been Yeldon biggest fan here. I really hope he gets a look Sunday

[letsgoteam]

I think Lee Smith will see "a lot" of snaps this Sunday to help contain Donald. I could see him Smith lining up in the backfield in those shotgun sets that have the TE a foot or two behind offensive line that they used during the first two weeks. I am also going to call "my shot" and say they have atleast 1 TE screen to Smith since like I said I think they keep him at home to help block when the Bills are passing.

[billsherd]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He moves like he has lead in his boots. It is the difference between he and Singletary. Neither is fast, but Singletary has fast feet. Moss looks the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man out of Ghostbusters lifting his legs up and putting them down again.

Moss reminds me of "Boobie" Dixon. 

[Wagon Circler]

4 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Knox is super important to how our offense is run. He fills a nice H-Back roll. Kroft CANNOT fill that roll. Its not about pass catching. Its about how Knox lines up all over, and can block from numerous spots on the filed--Kroft just cannot do that. 

I rewatched the game and saw Kroft throw many key blocks both in line and in the backfield. I am confident he can do the job.

[Kmart128]

4 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Knox is super important to how our offense is run. He fills a nice H-Back roll. Kroft CANNOT fill that roll. Its not about pass catching. Its about how Knox lines up all over, and can block from numerous spots on the filed--Kroft just cannot do that. 

 

Lee Smith and Gilliam will fill that role

[YoloinOhio]

4 hours ago, SWATeam said:

People were saying full go, but he was officially “limited”

 

Not today - Milano practiced in full 

[Kwai San]

6 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Confirmed WGR with McDermott.

 

No decision on Edmunds and Milano.  Going to see how they practice today.

 

Looking for a heavier dose of Gilly hopefully.......more touches for Motor - most def not a bad thing at all......

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Knox better hope one of these other TEs doesn't step up in his absence because the 1 thing missing on this Offense, is an above avg TE. So far Knox has been nothing but disappointing. If one of these other guys steps up and makes plays, Knox may not get the looks he was getting.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

'Tenderfoot' at TE?!  OK, back to my suggestion of a hockey skate boot with cleats on the sole.

[maryland-bills-fan]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

You know, I was beginning to wonder if I was the only person who thought this about Moss.  I thought he had some of the quickness and shiftiness that Singletary has, with a little more power.  But Singletary is just barely quick enough to make himself effective, and so far Moss has looked to me to be just short of being quick enough.  He doesn't out-quick anyone and he doesn't outpower anyone.   Maybe it's the blocking, maybe it's the scheme, maybe he hasn't adjusted yet, maybe it's a lot of things, but I don't think missing him for a week is a huge loss.  

 

Losing Knox hurts more - he HAS shown that his skills can make a difference on the field, but still, I'm not too concerned about it.  Receivers get open because of scheme - Knox isn't one to get open by using special separation skills.  He gets open because the the offense is attacking the called defense in a way that leaves an opening that the tight end runs to.  Knox is good at it, but Gilliam can do it well enough.  Will there be a drop off?  Sure, but not one that should matter all that much.   Plus, I think we'll see Davis on the field in some of the tight formations where we were seeing Knox in the slot or split out just a couple of yards.  Obviously, Davis isn't the blocking threat Knox is in the running game, but Knox's blocking isn't striking fear in the hearts of linebackers around the league, either. 

Moss lasted until the 3rd round.  I am going to wait until mid season to see how the top 5 RB's 2020 do compared to Moss and the DE we drafted in the second round.

 

[Jerome007]

Moss has not impressed so far. Singletarry has been miles above him as a runner.

 

Knox has been good as a blocker and caught a few passes. And he is a threat still.

 

Still, Bills do much better in the injury department than a lot of other teams.

 

 

[TwistofFate]

This really makes me want to put Singletary in my fantasy lineup over Drake.... 

[hemma]

Gilliam's catch last week was not an easy one.  Behind him and for a short pass, had some juice. 

Supposedly a superb blocking TE at Toledo.  Given that Smith and Kroft are also available, losing Knox have little if any impact.

 

Gilliam may actually end up making Smith expendable.

 

 

[formerlyofCtown]

7 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

 

Gilliam is our only option. My problem is that Gilliam is NOT a very good blocker. This makes our offense less dynamic. I suspect by a wide margin, but we won't know for sure until Sunday. 

Interesting that a college FB wouldn't be a good blocker.

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Knox better hope one of these other TEs doesn't step up in his absence because the 1 thing missing on this Offense, is an above avg TE. So far Knox has been nothing but disappointing. If one of these other guys steps up and makes plays, Knox may not get the looks he was getting.

I think you may be overstating this. It's really only a matter of dropped passes. If he were more reliable in receiving, everything else falls into place for him. He blocks well, and he gets great YAC. And, just to add to the frustration, he has occasionally made spectacular catches. All that being said, I don't think we're going to miss him this Sunday.

 

35 minutes ago, hemma said:

Gilliam's catch last week was not an easy one.  Behind him and for a short pass, had some juice. 

Supposedly a superb blocking TE at Toledo.  Given that Smith and Kroft are also available, losing Knox have little if any impact.

 

Gilliam may actually end up making Smith expendable.

 

 

I think (hope) we're going to see Gilliam used in a power back role on Sunday. It's certainly an element out run game is missing. I think he's also a good check down option, which was, so far, the one thing Moss was useful at.

[LB48]

13 hours ago, TroutDog said:

And the hits just keep on coming. Ugh. 
 

While I know many are down on Knox, I see him as rather valuable and believe this could have been a big game for him. Sucks he’s out. 
 

If Yeldon hits the field, I will be interested to see how Daboll works him into the game plan as he’s wicked dangerous catching out of the backfield (hearkening back to his Bama days). 

TJY will have a big day!

 

[NewEra]

The knox hate is ridiculous.  He needs to improve.  No doubt.  Dude got like 6 passes thrown his way during his collegiate career.  He‘a made more than a handful of great plays in just over a year.  He’s blown some plays.  So has Josh.  And Jerry.  And Poyer.   That’s not to say he doesn’t deserve some criticism, but I’ve read way too much nonsense regarding how terrible he is over the last week.  Give it a rest.  The kid is uber talented and needs to improve.  It takes time.  Sometimes longer than others

Edited September 26, 2020 by NewEra

[Bangarang]

I’m sure it’s been mention but Knox being out hurts more than Moss. Even though he hasn’t been the greatest, he’s still a mismatch and we can disguise things easier with him

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

The knox hate is ridiculous.  He needs to improve.  No doubt.  Dude got like 6 passes thrown his way during his collegiate career.  He‘a made more than a handful of great plays in just over a year.  He’s blown some plays.  So has Josh.  And Jerry.  And Poyer.   That’s not to say he doesn’t deserve some criticism, but I’ve read way too much nonsense regarding how terrible he is over the last week.  Give it a rest.  The kid is uber talented and needs to improve.  It takes time.  Sometimes longer than others

 

 

39 receptions in college.  He's still only 23.  He's actually the biggest project on the roster and if you are smartly looking at it that way overall we should be very pleased....just catch the ball my man!  

 

He might not even break out until year 4.  And I think he's so talented it will be worth the development.  

 

And in the meantime that doesn't mean he won't be effective.  He will, and he'll get better but don't expect 70 catches and 1000 yards next season.  I'll take 45-50 catches and 5 TDs....be a matchup problem for the D and help the run game.    

[stuvian]

15 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Knox better hope one of these other TEs doesn't step up in his absence because the 1 thing missing on this Offense, is an above avg TE. So far Knox has been nothing but disappointing. If one of these other guys steps up and makes plays, Knox may not get the looks he was getting.

 

my thoughts exactly. The position is ripe for stealing

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

13 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

I think you may be overstating this. It's really only a matter of dropped passes. If he were more reliable in receiving, everything else falls into place for him. He blocks well, and he gets great YAC. And, just to add to the frustration, he has occasionally made spectacular catches. All that being said, I don't think we're going to miss him this Sunday.

 

I think (hope) we're going to see Gilliam used in a power back role on Sunday. It's certainly an element out run game is missing. I think he's also a good check down option, which was, so far, the one thing Moss was useful at.

Im not overstating anything. People keep trying to make Knox out to be some stud in heat here. The guy has done absolutely nothing and drops the ball almost every time it’s thrown to him. He’s by far the most overrated player on the roster by Bills fans. It time for him to start making plays now. It’s the anti Trent Murphy effect. Bills fans hate a hardworking, non flashy guy that gets paid. Murphy is actually a very solid player that goes 100mph to the whistle when he’s on the field. Most Bills fans have him “cut” every offseason. But then the same people love the high potential, talent freaks that never actually do anything. The Duke Williams, Knox, Wade types. It’s very strange to me.

[HOUSE]

This is a bummer of epic proportions

[machine gun kelly]

There could be worse losses for us, but hope both will be fine.  

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Im not overstating anything. People keep trying to make Knox out to be some stud in heat here. The guy has done absolutely nothing and drops the ball almost every time it’s thrown to him. He’s by far the most overrated player on the roster by Bills fans. It time for him to start making plays now. It’s the anti Trent Murphy effect. Bills fans hate a hardworking, non flashy guy that gets paid. Murphy is actually a very solid player that goes 100mph to the whistle when he’s on the field. Most Bills fans have him “cut” every offseason. But then the same people love the high potential, talent freaks that never actually do anything. The Duke Williams, Knox, Wade types. It’s very strange to me.

I’m not overstating anything ———— he drops the ball almost every time the ball os thrown to him.

 

no.....you’re not overstating anything.  
 

Almost every time = 20% of the time?

 

no.....you’re not overstating anything. 
 

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

50 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’m not overstating anything ———— he drops the ball almost every time the ball os thrown to him.

 

no.....you’re not overstating anything.  
 

Almost every time = 20% of the time?

 

no.....you’re not overstating anything. 
 

 

Im not over stating that he’s just not good. Maybe he will be some day but as of now, he’s not. And he drops way to many balls. If you don’t agree with that, then I’m not sure what you are watching.

[YoloinOhio]

3 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Im not overstating anything. People keep trying to make Knox out to be some stud in heat here. The guy has done absolutely nothing and drops the ball almost every time it’s thrown to him. He’s by far the most overrated player on the roster by Bills fans. It time for him to start making plays now. It’s the anti Trent Murphy effect. Bills fans hate a hardworking, non flashy guy that gets paid. Murphy is actually a very solid player that goes 100mph to the whistle when he’s on the field. Most Bills fans have him “cut” every offseason. But then the same people love the high potential, talent freaks that never actually do anything. The Duke Williams, Knox, Wade types. It’s very strange to me.

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

25 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Might say more about the group of TEs from last year then anything. The guy had less the 400 yards last year. I’m not going to act like he’s a big deal. I’m excited to see the other guys get a shot honestly.

[NewEra]

49 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Im not over stating that he’s just not good. Maybe he will be some day but as of now, he’s not. And he drops way to many balls. If you don’t agree with that, then I’m not sure what you are watching.

He drops way too many balls.  I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with that.   He’s also more physically talented than any TE in Bills history imo.  He’s shown that he can use his athleticism to make huge plays.  He’s made big plays and has contributed to wins.  He’s a work in progress.  No one is saying he’s amazing right now, but his upside is tremendous.

 

when knox passes protocol, hopefully next week, do you propose that Kroft start?  Gilliam or Smith?  Cut Knox?  Bring in Joel Klopfenstein to be his TE coach/his backup?  
 

Knox will continue to start when he’s healthy.  
Knox will continue to improve.

If he’s still dropping too many passes, he’ll be replaced eventually.  

[FireChans]

On 9/25/2020 at 11:47 AM, LabattBlue said:

I like how many have turned on Moss after just TWO games.  He went from being part of the dynamic duo for the next 5-6 years to being terrible in less than a span of a month. 
 

 

Keep up the good work...I guess someone has to be the whipping boy. 

I think it’s the exact opposite. The legend of Zack Moss was built because, well, we drafted him. Not every 3rd round RB is a superstar. Not every Bills player is a superstar.