Weekly PFF Hate

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Doesn't matter the grading system used it's all subjective. 2 people can look at the same play and grade it differently. I do believe PFF ratings are more accurate than not but they're not 100% accurate. It's a useful tool but not facts. I don't know why fans can't leave it at that.

 

Allen is playing better and his grade is showing that improvement. I think it's fair. I remember Jairius Byrd back in the day use to be a major topic because PFF didn't rate his 9 int rookie year very high. Truth is he was pretty lucky that year and didn't do much else. As he improved as an overall safety so did his PFF grade. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

You can’t argue he has been lucky with multiple dropped interceptions in his past 2 and even 3 games going back to the wild card. He still looks much better this season and is basically our entire offense so far. 

[RunTheBall]

Every QB has dropped interceptions. Every QB air mails a ball every now and then. Mahomes did the exact same thing Josh did last week and missed a wide open guy in the EZ by 5 yards. So what, they all do it. Only Allen gets dissected to the degree that he does with armchair analysts trying to prop up their pre-draft conclusions. PFF is the worst they can go blow a goat and get off the Josh Allen train now that it’s left the station. Those guys did everything in their power to support a crap narrative and are not unbiased in the least. 

[Inigo Montoya]

The last line of the PFF quote talking about their QB rating system is stupendously condescending, “So a lot of people can’t comprehend it.”  Meaning of course that they are simply too intelligent there at PFF and the typical football fan is too ignorant to grasp their genius.

 

If PFF’s formula says that Josh Allen’s 417 yard, 4 TD, 0 INT, 70% completion rate performance last week was graded as the twelfth best QB performance last week, just take our word for it because you are too stupid to understand the complexities of why Sam Darnold dumpster fire performance was better.

 

Instead of looking at their results and realizing there is no way Darnold’s performance was better than Allen’s, and that their methods must be fatally flawed to reach that conclusion, they ask us to ignore our own eyes and just take it on faith that they know more than we do. 

 

Their QB rating system is obviously a joke and PFF are a bunch of clowns.

 

 

[Aireskoi]

page 259...

 

If the player has fans that will be outraged we should lower his grade for clicks.  Take the Bills fans for example, they really love football so trolling always pays off there.  Just tell them that some random scrub is better than their guy, then sit back and wait.  Clicks are clicks.

[HOUSE]

You actually paid the Athletic for this ?

[atlbillsfan1975]

350 pages?! Please. Get outta here with that.

[Billsfan1972]

55 minutes ago, Chemical said:

You can’t argue he has been lucky with multiple dropped interceptions in his past 2 and even 3 games going back to the wild card. He still looks much better this season and is basically our entire offense so far. 

Which one's?  I know you will say the out to Diggs where the lineman timed his leap well and made a very good play.  We see this constantly and most batted passes are not intercepted.  

 

The narrative will always be with Allen that an incompletion verifies he is inaccurate.  

 

So hitting Diggs or Brown on 40+ yard bombs rate low because they were open and he hit them with perfect throws?😜

 

Anyone have video of Darnold's week 2 masterpiece that rated higher.  

 

Yes PFF is much smarter then us.

[Don Otreply]

So they admit that they make stats up on events that didn’t happen, and then assign importants to those things that didn’t happen when rating players/teams, and then pretended that it’s hard to understand... what a bunch of azs hats... I guess if you tell yourself this stuff frequently enough you start believing it’s true...

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

So they admit that they make stats up on events that didn’t happen, and then assign importants to those things that didn’t happen when rating players/teams, and then pretended that it’s hard to understand... what a bunch of azs hats... I guess if you tell yourself this stuff frequently enough you start believing it’s true...

The fact people bring up PFF on this site still after they mentioned Duck in the same breathe as Josh, is the issue that needs 350 pages of understanding.

[dickleyjones]

It's 350 pages so it must be good!

 

It is ok, most people really do not have a grasp on sampling and statistical modelling yet conclusions are drawn and systems are implemented based on such shoddy science. We see it almost every day now. PFF is a prime example.

[The Wiz]

4 hours ago, BruceVilanch said:

“He has more positively graded plays through two weeks than any other quarterback.

So the fact that he has more positive graded plays than any other qb but is still ranked lower than 11 other qb means they are adding bias to their system then doesn't it? 

 

[whatdrought]

This is them literally confessing that their bs is subjective while saying “but we’re smarter than you, so it’s definitely right.” 

 

Screw PFF. 

[JMF2006]

4 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

"Those who are trained in Pro Football Focus’ grading system get a 350-page manual on what to look for at each position. Players are assigned a score on each play up to +2 or as low as -2 in increments of 0.5."

 

Thats the only new information.  And why don't they factor things like velocity?  That's an important weapon he uses to be more effective.  Firing balls through tight windows can be huge and should be scored highly rather than docked for being "risky".

 

Because TB12 has a noodle arm

[oldmanfan]

As a general rule, if you justify your method for doing anything by saying it’s so complex that only you can understand it, you should look at simplifying your method.

[H2o]

Live look at PFF employees every time someone grades Josh Allen

[DJB]

I found the Bills system they use

 

.

 

[Protocal69]

I'll never forgot how the did Aaron Rodgers

 

Rodgers completed 24-of-35 passes for 333 yards and five touchdown passes against zero interceptions, good for a 138.5 passer rating. But PFF, which grades every player’s performance on every play according to its more nuanced model, saw it differently. Take a look at how Rodgers, who graded a negative 0.8 for the game, stacked up against other QBs in Week 3:

 

 

[ChevyVanMiller]

I'll take their 12th rated QB who throws for 400+ yards and 4 TDS with no INTS every week. 

 

What an idiotic website.

[MJS]

They are in full defense mode. Wow, they must be getting a ton of criticism.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

The fact people bring up PFF on this site still after they mentioned Duck in the same breathe as Josh, is the issue that needs 350 pages of understanding.

 

Nah.  Two lines will do it:  PFF was trolling Bills Mafia.  Sam Momson told us none of them actually believed it.

[DCOrange]

21 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Just read an article on the Athletic about the PFF system, sounds like Fairburn contracted them to understand why.   Not endorsing or complaining,  just summarizing some of the points given of how their grades are determined:

 

The explanation given is they aren't grading purely off stats.  For example QB's will get negative grades for passes that could have been intercepted, but given a positive grade for dropped passes.  Also the QB doesn't get as much credit for completing a pass to a wide open receiver, in that case the receiver gets the better grade for getting himself open where as throwing a completion into a tight window does give the QB better grades.

 

It also stated, (didn't exactly understand the logic here), but negative grades will make the grades worse early in the season when less data to analyze where as the season progresses, you don't notice the negative stuff in the overall score as much.  It also stated that it's easier for a QB to generate negative grades than positive ones.

 

It gave a couple of examples of scores given prior where fans and even coaches screamed about them

 

Aaron Rodgers had a grade of -.08, which was average and he threw for 333 yards, 5 TD's, zero interceptions. But he also had a fumble, a dropped int and 3 TD's  credited more to great  plays by Randall Cobb. McCarthy screamed about the grades, but last summer, he met with them and went over that game and came away with a good understanding of why the score was bad and agreed that their assessment was accurate.

 

Another game Nick Foles threw 400 yards, 7 TD's  and zero ints and had a score around what Allen got.  Kelly the coach at the time went nuts too, but again after sitting down with them and understanding what goes into their grading system, came away as a believer.

 

So to some of the points above, is their grading system secret? no but alot more than the obvious goes into it?  Like to see how they'd grade Farve, well Rodgers didn't make out too well!

Basically what they're saying is that the turnover-worthy plays are generally few and far between (with some exceptions), so if you start off the season with like 4 TWPs like Allen has, that will weigh on his grade more right now than it will if he goes another 100 passes without throwing a TWP (which is feasible).

19 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

I did and learned that their methodology is flawed.  If Allen rifles a throw into tight coverage and makes the play, it is a negative because it could have been intercepted.  Feels good on first review.

 

Now let's put some context:  if he completes a checkdown on third down the throw counts more than the above throw to convert the 3rd and keep the drive going.  He made the throw and it was not almost intercepted, here is a cookie.  Team lost but nice throw.

 

In the case above what if Allen knew it would be close but he also knew he had the strength and touch to make the play.  So he gets punished?

 

Playing the "what if" game is a losers analysis.  Over the course of time those things will even out.  If he is reckless then it will show up in the stats.  if he is successful, it will show up in the stats. 

 

Context is also important on when in the game the plays occur:  is it garbage time with a prevent?  Does that score positive points vs a hard fought first half?

 

So back to @thebandit27 question: do you consider Darnold's performance better than Allen's last week?

This simply isn't true though. It happens every year where we see a QB like Mariota throw like 15 INTs on 10 INTable passes while someone else throws 10 INTs on 30 INTable passes.

 

Regarding Darnold though, I went back and watched all of his passes this week and I don't really get it personally. I counted two or three passes that could have been picked off. His TD pass was great and he did lose about 100 yards on dropped passes and penalties but for the most part he was just checking it down all game and still throwing near INTs. They specifically talked about Brady's performance this past week in The Athletic article and that one is a much better case for their system; he legitimately played great and just got screwed by his receivers. Darnold was nothing special.

[DCOrange]

7 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

"Those who are trained in Pro Football Focus’ grading system get a 350-page manual on what to look for at each position. Players are assigned a score on each play up to +2 or as low as -2 in increments of 0.5."

 

Thats the only new information.  And why don't they factor things like velocity?  That's an important weapon he uses to be more effective.  Firing balls through tight windows can be huge and should be scored highly rather than docked for being "risky".

They are scored highly. People are misconstruing tight window throws with turnover worthy plays. If Allen threads the needle to his WR, that is graded more positively than pretty much any other throw. If Allen throws it into a tight window and the DB drops the pass, that is graded negatively.

3 hours ago, The Wiz said:

So the fact that he has more positive graded plays than any other qb but is still ranked lower than 11 other qb means they are adding bias to their system then doesn't it? 

 

Technically it's only 9 QBs ahead of him in terms of passing grade, and no, because his turnover worthy plays have weighed his grade down.

 

Jameis has been top 3 in positively graded throws every year of his career I believe and he's never had a good PFF grade overall. Allen's start to this season is a much less extreme version of that as Allen is still rated in the top 10.

[K-9]

Does PFF have any idea how ridiculous they sound when they say that this QB throws a prettier incompletion than that QB?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

53 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Basically what they're saying is that the turnover-worthy plays are generally few and far between (with some exceptions), so if you start off the season with like 4 TWPs like Allen has, that will weigh on his grade more right now than it will if he goes another 100 passes without throwing a TWP (which is feasible).

 

True, and I suppose conversely a few amazing passes/plays early in the season can elevate your score too.

[4merper4mer]

59 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Does PFF have any idea how ridiculous they sound when they say that this QB throws a prettier incompletion than that QB?

They ranked Tre as the 18th best CB in 2019, so below average for a CB1.  That's really all I need to see.  Allen gives them things to be arbitrary about I guess but I'm sorry, there simply are not 17 corners better than Tre and I really don't think there is anything to discuss there.

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Does PFF have any idea how ridiculous they sound when they say that this QB throws a prettier incompletion than that QB?

I enjoyed how very complimentary Monsoon was of that Darnold TD he threw back against his body as if that exact same pass hadn’t been picked off by Milano the week prior. ‘Interceptable passes’ smh.

 

They don’t have a ‘system’. They don’t care about consistency in their analysis. PFF remain hacks and can be safely ignored.

[C.Biscuit97]

“I hate this website.  It’s so stupid and it makes me so mad.”

 

immediately checks out the website and proceeds to get mad!

[Warcodered]

 

 

 

[CSBill]

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

 

 

Fair analysis. Give them props when they are deserve.

Edited September 29, 2020 by CSBill

[Billsfan1972]

Still muted....  Okay, but you can see they still want to be correct and making excuses. 

 

They did get it right that it is "Must see TV"

Edited September 29, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[ILBillsfan]

Some credit ... was nice to see them acknowledge he knows what he needs to work on and has been improving those points to them game.  I am enamored to watch Josh continue to grow and develop as I think this train is ahead of schedule. 

[Doc]

Still don’t care what they think. 

[HappyDays]

 

Wallace intercepted Goff on a throw that was uninterceptable. Incredible!

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Wallace intercepted Goff on a throw that was uninterceptable. Incredible!

 

No, it wasn't "turnover worthy."  Just like the other INT he threw in the Cowboys game.

 

[HappyDays]

 

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Wallace intercepted Goff on a throw that was uninterceptable. Incredible!

Wilson also underthrew Metcalf vs Cowboys, was lucky to get away w/incompletion

[The Wiz]

24 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Pretty sure Goff threw I pick to Wallace.  Unlike the pick throw by Allen.

[DCOrange]

34 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Pretty sure Goff threw I pick to Wallace.  Unlike the pick throw by Allen.

Yeah they determined that Wallace’s INT was due to the WR stopping his route. Similar to Wilson who got picked on a dropped pass by his TE

[Don Otreply]

Pff is a group of ex frat boys trying desperately to appear to be doing adult things, they give the impression that their parents still buy their toilet paper for them...