No excuse for Bass

[Victory Formation]

I think you let Bass audition for the rest of the year.. he’s had a few slip ups within the 30-39 yard range but he’s also crushed some pretty difficult kicks that were 50 yards or longer.. We won’t find a better kicker in free agency, we’ll just have to wait and see what happens.. the talent is there..

[T master]

On 9/13/2020 at 4:15 PM, Markaf431 said:

This is ridiculous. Clearly he was pushing to the right. That’s a mechanical issue and our ST coach should be able to knock that out of him. His XP’s were solid. Rookie nerves. The kid will be fine. 

 

Wonder how his nerves would be if the Bills Mafia all 80K were at the stadium in full voice the kid would probably lose his mind . 

[Big Gun]

Even with the misses yesterday, Bass is ok. Had my reserves after the first miss but he nutted up wasn't rattled and showed me alot.  

[nucci]

42 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

That kicker scored all of the teams points in a win, wtf else does the guy need to do ? The guy who wins the game for you gets a game ball, what’s so hard to grasp about that? 
 

He is now, as a rookie, tied for the most kicks made in an NFL game by the way...

 

It just goes to show that STs are indeed considered the red headed step child of NFL football 😂

 

Go Bills!!!

I told you I wasn't getting on Bass. I disagreed with you comparing it to WR catching 6 of 8 targets

[Don Otreply]

6 minutes ago, nucci said:

I told you I wasn't getting on Bass. I disagreed with you comparing it to WR catching 6 of 8 targets

Not that it matters so much, but then, why are kickers considered to be performing poorly when they put up percentages that are on par with other point scorers such as receivers, and paid so little when they are so needed in clutch situations? Its an odd relationship that kickers have with their teams and fans...

[CodeMonkey]

On 9/13/2020 at 5:12 PM, stevestojan said:

Rookie? Yes. 
One of his kicks might have been good? Sure. 
 

Thank god we have the Dolphins next week. If he misses one next week, he has to go. 
 

There was no reason to draft this kid if this is what he does under pressure. 
 

 

Have you looked around the league at FG %, and PAT% for that matter as well?

Besides that, you need to find someone better before cutting him.

As you said, rookie.  Did you want to cut Allen less than halfway through his rookie season?

Instead of a cut everyone approach, how about getting someone good to work with the kid.

Much like Allen, he has the leg.  Just needs to learn control.

Edited October 26, 2020 by CodeMonkey

[Not at the table Karlos]

12 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

Yeah, was he talking trash to the Jets bench ? 😆 

I’ve never been more proud of a kicker than I was when I saw that. 

[Jauronimo]

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tyler-bass-3.html  

 

Who he was in college looks like who he is in the pros.  A guy who misses a lot of kicks.  

 

I keep seeing the argument that "he's just a rookie, he's still learning. He will get better!".   Does he need more time with the playbook?!?!  Is our place kicking scheme more complicated than the one he ran in college?  Is the pro kicking game faster than college?  Seriously, is anything different between kicking in the NFL vs. the NCAA?  He misses first quarter thirty yarders with no fans in the stands.  A lower pressure kick, there is not.

 

There is nothing left to learn.  You kick the ball between the sticks or you find another job.  I cannot think of one example of a kicker who looks like a basket case as a rookie who ever turns it around.  

 

To the Bass apologists, do you trust him with the game on the line?  I sure as hell do not.  

 

 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tyler-bass-3.html  

 

Who he was in college looks like who he is in the pros.  A guy who misses a lot of kicks.  

 

I keep seeing the argument that "he's just a rookie, he's still learning. He will get better!".   Does he need more time with the playbook?!?!  Is our place kicking scheme more complicated than the one he ran in college?  Is the pro kicking game faster than college?  Seriously, is anything different between kicking in the NFL vs. the NCAA?  He misses first quarter thirty yarders with no fans in the stands.  A lower pressure kick, there is not.

 

There is nothing left to learn.  You kick the ball between the sticks or you find another job.  I cannot think of one example of a kicker who looks like a basket case as a rookie who ever turns it around.  

 

To the Bass apologists, do you trust him with the game on the line?  I sure as hell do not.  

 

 

So who should we sign?

[CodeMonkey]

5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tyler-bass-3.html  

 

Who he was in college looks like who he is in the pros.  A guy who misses a lot of kicks passes.

 

As was Josh Allen until this season.

Edited October 26, 2020 by CodeMonkey

[Jauronimo]

3 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

As was Josh Allen until this season.

Josh Allen missed a lot of kicks?

[BuffaloBobs]

It really isn't worth talking about because there isn't anyone who would be a sure upgrade that is available.

 

Jacksonville went through five different kickers trying to replace an injured Josh Lambo and most were complete disasters.

 

Veteran starters Jake Elliot, Dustin Hopkins, and Stephen Gostkowski have all been objectively less reliable than Bass while Dan Bailey, Matt Prater, Zane Gonzalez, and Sam Sloman are all right around Bass in field goal percentage. The point is we're far from alone with kicking troubles and it's telling that teams for the most part are sticking with their starters rather than kicking the tires on free agents.

 

Bass has the leg strength, is great on kickoffs and is only a rookie. I would much rather take my lumps trying to develop him into something (in the absence of an obvious upgrade) than have the same issues with an unreliable veteran that doesn't have the kickoff and 50+ leg strength and growth potential. 

[WEATHER DOT COM]

40 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

 

I keep seeing the argument that "he's just a rookie, he's still learning. He will get better!".   Does he need more time with the playbook?!?!  Is our place kicking scheme more complicated than the one he ran in college?  Is the pro kicking game faster than college?  Seriously, is anything different between kicking in the NFL vs. the NCAA?  He misses first quarter thirty yarders with no fans in the stands.  A lower pressure kick, there is not.

 

 

Harrison Butker kicked 71% in college. He's now one of the best kickers in the NFL.

[Bakin]

Bass has an unbelievable keg of a leg. 
I mean you see the way his kicks blast the net when it goes through. It’s a serious boot. 
just gotta get it under control. 

[section122]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

Seriously, is anything different between kicking in the NFL vs. the NCAA?  

 

I cannot think of one example of a kicker who looks like a basket case as a rookie who ever turns it around.  

 

To the Bass apologists, do you trust him with the game on the line?  I sure as hell do not.  

 

 

Shortened your quote to these 3 items.

 

1.  For starters the hash marks are much wider in college.  Secondly the ball is a different size.  Those are 2 very big differences between college and the pros.  Mechanics and repetition are always going to be helpful and the kicking unit got a lot of practice yesterday.

 

2.  Kickers are always up and down.  Dan Carpenter comes to mind.  Couldn't miss for the fins, couldn't make, got cut, signed here and went through the same thing.  

 

3.  Of kickers with at least 15 PAT attempts this year (Bass has 18) 5 of 22 are perfect for the year.  Harrison Butker has missed 5 of them!  Bizarrely his main struggle is the 30-39 yard fg which is in the range of a PAT.  He has missed 3 of his 5 kicks from there.  He is 6/8 from 40+.  So it depends where the kick is from lol.

 

I have said it before and will say it again here.  I would love someone to do a deep dive on Bojo's holding and the kickers make %.  It seems to be ajob they gave him as a punter that isn't especially good at.  At least 3 of the missed kicks by Bass were not "laces out."

 

It is something worth watching but I'm not freaking out.  yet.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

His career is off to a better start than Haushka who went 10-15 in his first TWO seasons. 
 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tyler-bass-3.html  

 

Who he was in college looks like who he is in the pros.  A guy who misses a lot of kicks.  

 

I keep seeing the argument that "he's just a rookie, he's still learning. He will get better!".   Does he need more time with the playbook?!?!  Is our place kicking scheme more complicated than the one he ran in college?  Is the pro kicking game faster than college?  Seriously, is anything different between kicking in the NFL vs. the NCAA?  He misses first quarter thirty yarders with no fans in the stands.  A lower pressure kick, there is not.

 

There is nothing left to learn.  You kick the ball between the sticks or you find another job.  I cannot think of one example of a kicker who looks like a basket case as a rookie who ever turns it around.  

 

To the Bass apologists, do you trust him with the game on the line?  I sure as hell do not.  

 

 

Just about every kicker in the NFL has their 2 worst field goal percentage seasons in their first season and in their last season. 

[eball]

I don't have any hard data to back up this "gut feeling" but I believe that some kickers take a bit of time to settle in to playing in the NFL.  I feel like I recall stories of rookie kickers struggling but going on to have really good careers.

 

Anyway, Bass is 6/8 from 40+ which I think anyone would accept.  The problem is the 3/6 from 30-39, but if you add the 33-yard PATs he's 21/25 (84%).

 

I'm chalking this up to Bass and Bojo becoming more and more comfortable with each other.  Do we really think they don't look at the film of each snap/hold/kick and address any "laces out" issues?

 

Yes, I will be holding my breath if Bass lines up for a 35-yard FG to tie or win a ballgame this season, but I still have confidence he could turn out to be a very good long-term kicker for the Bills.

[Rc2catch]

3 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tyler-bass-3.html  

 

Who he was in college looks like who he is in the pros.  A guy who misses a lot of kicks.  

 

I keep seeing the argument that "he's just a rookie, he's still learning. He will get better!".   Does he need more time with the playbook?!?!  Is our place kicking scheme more complicated than the one he ran in college?  Is the pro kicking game faster than college?  Seriously, is anything different between kicking in the NFL vs. the NCAA?  He misses first quarter thirty yarders with no fans in the stands.  A lower pressure kick, there is not.

 

There is nothing left to learn.  You kick the ball between the sticks or you find another job.  I cannot think of one example of a kicker who looks like a basket case as a rookie who ever turns it around.  

 

To the Bass apologists, do you trust him with the game on the line?  I sure as hell do not.  

 

 

Who replaces him? 

[Punching Bag]

I have said it before and will say it again.  Bills need to sign an assistant special teams coach who used to be a successful kicker when trying to develop a NFL kicker from a rookie college kicker.  Our special teams coach has little experience in this.

[Rc2catch]

2 hours ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

Harrison Butker kicked 71% in college. He's now one of the best kickers in the NFL.

And he’s missed 5 extra points or something so far this year. Terrible % for pat 😂 wonder if they could upgrade 

[zow2]

Does anyone really expect that their kicker will go 8 for 8 unless his name is Justin Tucker?   I don't.  It's frustrating when he hits a couple long one's but misses the shorts ones.  Hoping his confidence and mechanics get better as the year goes on.  But there's a lot of NFL kickers older than Bass that would've gone 6 for 8 or worse.

[PirateHookerMD]

3 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tyler-bass-3.html  

 

Who he was in college looks like who he is in the pros.  A guy who misses a lot of kicks.  

 

I keep seeing the argument that "he's just a rookie, he's still learning. He will get better!".   Does he need more time with the playbook?!?!  Is our place kicking scheme more complicated than the one he ran in college?  Is the pro kicking game faster than college?  Seriously, is anything different between kicking in the NFL vs. the NCAA?  He misses first quarter thirty yarders with no fans in the stands.  A lower pressure kick, there is not.

 

There is nothing left to learn.  You kick the ball between the sticks or you find another job.  I cannot think of one example of a kicker who looks like a basket case as a rookie who ever turns it around.  

 

To the Bass apologists, do you trust him with the game on the line?  I sure as hell do not.  

 

 

 

Kickers are a different breed. sometimes who you are in college won't be the same:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Aguayo

 

Kicking everywhere has been odd this year. Harrison Butker missing extra points, Gostkowski had a horrible week 1 and then missed the game tying kick yesterday. 

 

Agree I wish we had a Tucker level kicker but I think we gotta ride with the kid to see what hes got at this point. 

 

 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

Bass isn't the best kicker in the league. He isn't the worst either. 

 

I've watched a lot of teams play this year. Finding a kicker at least as good as Bass is pretty difficult.

 

Jax had some kicker that had never attempted a kick in a game in his entire life. What's out there that is for sure better than Bass?

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, PirateHookerMD said:

 

Kickers are a different breed. sometimes who you are in college won't be the same:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Aguayo

 

Kicking everywhere has been odd this year. Harrison Butker missing extra points, Gostkowski had a horrible week 1 and then missed the game tying kick yesterday. 

 

Agree I wish we had a Tucker level kicker but I think we gotta ride with the kid to see what hes got at this point. 

 

 

 

That's a good way to put it.  Of course if the wheels on his wagon completely fall off they would have to move on.

I do wonder if fans at the games would affect him positively or negatively?  That's a personality trait we haven't seen yet. 

[Billy Claude]

I understand the guy is a rookie and that everyone wants him to do well but it is unreasonable for people to give him game balls for a 6 out of 8 days.

 

From the discussion it appears that people are still looking at stats from the 1990's or cherry picking a few kickers having  bad years.

 

The NFL field goal percentage this year is 85% (341 our of 401).  The field goal percentage from 40  to 49 is 80.6% and for 50 or higher is 62%.

Tyler Bass is at 71% total, he has hit 5 out of 6 kicks from 40 to 49 is at 83.3% and 1 out of 2 from 50.   Only 7 out of 124 fgs from 30 to 39 has been missed.  Bass has missed three of them.

 

Out of the top 32 kickers by attempts (5 or more), Tyler Bass ranks 28th in field goal percentage.  Twelve kickers are over 90% and 21 are over 80%.

 

The four kickers behind him are Michael Badgley,  Jake Elliot, Dustin Hopkins and Steven Gostkowski, three of which have a records of success and Gostkowski has hit 5 out of 5 kicks 50 yards or more.

 

I understand the guy is a rookie and I certainly are not looking to cut him but he needs to get much better.

 

 

 

 

 

[jletha]

1 hour ago, Tuel Time said:

Bass isn't the best kicker in the league. He isn't the worst either. 

 

I've watched a lot of teams play this year. Finding a kicker at least as good as Bass is pretty difficult.

 

Jax had some kicker that had never attempted a kick in a game in his entire life. What's out there that is for sure better than Bass?

Exactly. There are better kickers in the league, there are also better QBs. Problem is theyre all on other teams, not walking the streets. Ask Jax or Tenn from last season. You cant release Bass and bank on the kicking getting much better. On top of that he gives us a shot from 50+ which isnt a guarantee.

 

Stick with Bass.

[somnus00]

18 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

I understand the guy is a rookie and that everyone wants him to do well but it is unreasonable for people to give him game balls for a 6 out of 8 days.

 

From the discussion it appears that people are still looking at stats from the 1990's or cherry picking a few kickers having  bad years.

 

The NFL field goal percentage this year is 85% (341 our of 401).  The field goal percentage from 40  to 49 is 80.6% and for 50 or higher is 62%.

Tyler Bass is at 71% total, he has hit 5 out of 6 kicks from 40 to 49 is at 83.3% and 1 out of 2 from 50.   Only 7 out of 124 fgs from 30 to 39 has been missed.  Bass has missed three of them.

 

Out of the top 32 kickers by attempts (5 or more), Tyler Bass ranks 28th in field goal percentage.  Twelve kickers are over 90% and 21 are over 80%.

 

The four kickers behind him are Michael Badgley,  Jake Elliot, Dustin Hopkins and Steven Gostkowski, three of which have a records of success and Gostkowski has hit 5 out of 5 kicks 50 yards or more.

 

I understand the guy is a rookie and I certainly are not looking to cut him but he needs to get much better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the right answer. The young man just isn't doing well. I do not want to rely on his leg in a playoff situation (or with any game on the line for that matter).

 

That doesn't mean he won't get there, or that he won't have a great career. There have been plenty of kickers who go on to good careers after a shaky rookie year. He has potential, and I have hope for the guy. But he has a lot of improving to do.

[LabattBlue]

The 3 misses from inside 40, along with the extra point miss are a problem...especially since they were over the course of only 7 games.  If he can clean up that part of his game, he will have a bright future. If the misses on "gimmies" continue over the last 9 games, they will probably at some point cost the Bills a game this season, and probably cost him his job in 2021.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Back the Blue

[Buffalo716]

35 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

I understand the guy is a rookie and that everyone wants him to do well but it is unreasonable for people to give him game balls for a 6 out of 8 days.

 

From the discussion it appears that people are still looking at stats from the 1990's or cherry picking a few kickers having  bad years.

 

The NFL field goal percentage this year is 85% (341 our of 401).  The field goal percentage from 40  to 49 is 80.6% and for 50 or higher is 62%.

Tyler Bass is at 71% total, he has hit 5 out of 6 kicks from 40 to 49 is at 83.3% and 1 out of 2 from 50.   Only 7 out of 124 fgs from 30 to 39 has been missed.  Bass has missed three of them.

 

Out of the top 32 kickers by attempts (5 or more), Tyler Bass ranks 28th in field goal percentage.  Twelve kickers are over 90% and 21 are over 80%.

 

The four kickers behind him are Michael Badgley,  Jake Elliot, Dustin Hopkins and Steven Gostkowski, three of which have a records of success and Gostkowski has hit 5 out of 5 kicks 50 yards or more.

 

I understand the guy is a rookie and I certainly are not looking to cut him but he needs to get much better.

 

 

 

 

 

Bass also had a rough week one. That was by far his worst week

 

Take that week away and his numbers look  a lot better

 

He's getting more confidence and has a live leg

 

we literally don't win the game without him yesterday and there's not a kicker we could get that would make those kicks he made from 45 plus out

 

He absolutely deserves credit for his pressure kicking

 

He's going to win special teams player of the week and people are trashing him

Edited October 26, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Motorin']

52 minutes ago, jletha said:

Exactly. There are better kickers in the league, there are also better QBs. Problem is theyre all on other teams, not walking the streets. Ask Jax or Tenn from last season. You cant release Bass and bank on the kicking getting much better. On top of that he gives us a shot from 50+ which isnt a guarantee.

 

Stick with Bass.

Unfortunately, it's impossible for rookies to improve. You're either a Hall of Fame player in your first NFL game, or you deserve to be cut. Facts.

[Billy Claude]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Bass also had a rough week one. That was by far his worst week

 

Take that week away and his numbers look  a lot better

 

He's getting more confidence and has a live leg

 

we literally don't win the game without him yesterday and there's not a kicker we could get that would make those kicks he made from 45 plus out

 

He absolutely deserves credit for his pressure kicking

 

He's going to win special teams player of the week and people are trashing him

 

I absolutely agree that he has improved.  I do not understand people saying 6 for 8 fg kicking is a good game.

[Buffalo716]

19 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

I absolutely agree that he has improved.  I do not understand people saying 6 for 8 fg kicking is a good game.

What do you think a good kicking game is four for four?

 

Three for four even in the right circumstances could be a good game

 

Not all kicks are equal, and he absolutely booted some clutch kicks

 

It was easily an above average performance When you factor in how much we needed the kicks..  If he made both of them it would have been one of the best performances of all time

 

He's probably going to win special teams player of the week, they don't give that to somebody who performed bad

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Buffalo716

[New Improved DC Tom]

Bass against the Jets: 8 for 12.

 

Against everyone else: 4 for 5.

 

Solution seems obvious: bench him for Jets games.

[QCity]

75% in a game is not good and neither is 71% on the season, but the sample size is still too small. His 50% rate on 30-39 kicks will go up, he's hitting 95% of his extra points. Fans calling for him to be cut need to relax.

[Pokebball]

You don't cut him without having a better kicker in your back pocket.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Let's not forget that he actually hit one of those misses and the refs called it wrong.  Not that that's relevant to how his coaches regard him but since we're talking about percentages with a small sample size he's really at 76% not 71%.  

 

Also 18/19 on extra points is a good number ever since they stopped being gimmes.  You typically see several missed each week around the league.

 

The actual premise behind this thread is ludicrous though.  No excuse?  A rookie struggling because he's a rookie is about the most reasonable excuse there is in this sport.

[ngbills]

Eyeball test for Bass does not look good. Rarely do you see perfect through the upright kicks. It is weir. Clearly he has power yet he just seems to never hit the ball right or something. Heck, maybe it is the holder or the snapper. I want to believe they see him nailing perfect 60 yarders at practice. 

[klos63]

9 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Not that it matters so much, but then, why are kickers considered to be performing poorly when they put up percentages that are on par with other point scorers such as receivers, and paid so little when they are so needed in clutch situations? Its an odd relationship that kickers have with their teams and fans...

Because they are different positions and have different expectations, and the scoring is different. It's no tricky to understand.

[Charles Romes]

He would have to be moved with these stats if he was mid career but his 76% is totally acceptable given his rookie with a strong leg stature.