PFF's anti-Josh Allen agenda continues, calls Duck Hodges "the better QB"

[buffalonian]

Just now, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That may be your point, but my "straw man argument" is absolutely correct. Let's review. This is what you said:

 

 

That implies that they said that "the guy throwing him the ball is terrible."

 

They never said that or anything like it, so yes, you absolutely threw a straw man argument out there.

This is not a straw man argument for two reasons. First, the obvious point I was making is that it was ridiculous for Eager to argue that Brown is having an incredible year despite the play of Allen because Brown relies on Allen.  That is what Eager’s quote was about and that is what I responded to. Whether Eager actually thinks Allen is “terrible” or just “not good” is inconsequential to the point. Secondly, it was at most a slight exaggeration saying that Eager maintains that Allen is “terrible.” Eager’s comment certainly suggests that Allen is not good, if not “terrible”.  A exaggeration is not a straw man argument. If anyone is making a straw man argument here it is you for focusing on the word “terrible.”  Learn your fallacies bud. 

19 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That may be your point, but my "straw man argument" is absolutely correct. Let's review. This is what you said:

 

 

That implies that they said that "the guy throwing him the ball is terrible."

 

They never said that or anything like it, so yes, you absolutely threw a straw man argument out there.

Seriously, how can Brown be having a banner year without Allen also  playing well? Brown only puts up good numbers if the QB gets him the ball,  right? 

[uticaclub]

3 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

It’s like all the dorks that crunch numbers became the Arbitors of Succession / Lord High Executioners of NFL performance.  I think offended players (or more accurately, offended fan bases) should be able to prove their skills in person.  Imagine Josh Allen rifling balls to PFF staffers.  ?

How far they standing? More than 20 yards and their points might get proven

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It really is hilarious how people rush onward in waves to blame the messenger on anything that can remotely be conceived of as reflecting badly on the Bills. A good 30% of the posts in this thread say nothing about the argument. They instead attack the messenger, an argument that carries absolutely zero reflection on the argument.

 

When PFF says something that can be interpreted as casting the Bills in a good light, suddenly there are no PFF comments in that thread and everyone only talks about what they said. It's just so obvious and sad.

 

But as for them being dumb, again, it's nonsense on the face of it. A majority of the NFL teams buy PFF's stuff. They would not do so if they were not very good at what they do.

 

Not that that proves that they're correct in every value judgment that they make. They're not, anymore than anyone is. But they're a very capable organization.

 

You do realize that certain people at PFF have thought from the beginning that Allen will never make it in the NFL and they continue to do what they can to discredit him?  You do also realize that PFF is posting this particular comment to purposely rile up Bills fans right?  You are always so quick to come to the media's rescue when people don't like something they say.  You have been doing that since the other Bills board.  If I didn't know better, I would think you are a urnalist too, but IIRC you are a teacher or something.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Scott7975

[Doc]

27 minutes ago, buffalonian said:

This is not a straw man argument for two reasons. First, the obvious point I was making is that it was ridiculous for Eager to argue that Brown is having an incredible year despite the play of Allen because Brown relies on Allen.  That is what Eager’s quote was about and that is what I responded to. Whether Eager actually thinks Allen is “terrible” or just “not good” is inconsequential to the point. Secondly, it was at most a slight exaggeration saying that Eager maintains that Allen is “terrible.” Eager’s comment certainly suggests that Allen is not good, if not “terrible”.  A exaggeration is not a straw man argument. If anyone is making a straw man argument here it is you for focusing on the word “terrible.”  Learn your fallacies bud. 

Seriously, how can Brown be having a banner year without Allen also  playing well? Brown only puts up good numbers if the QB gets him the ball,  right? 

 

Haven't you heard?  He's having a career year "despite the QB."  He must be throwing the ball to himself or has an amazing gravitational force.

 

As for Hodges, he's not the better QB and won't be.  The Steelers will be drafting Big Ben's replacement shortly.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That may be your point, but my "straw man argument" is absolutely correct. Let's review. This is what you said:

 

 

That implies that they said that "the guy throwing him the ball is terrible."

 

They never said that or anything like it, so yes, you absolutely threw a straw man argument out there.

 

He said "It's a "despite the QB" situation." So he is saying that Brown is doing well DESPITE THE QB. "they never said anything like that" is completely false. All you have to do is read what is actually said.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Scott7975

[oldmanfan]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

You do realize that certain people at PFF have thought from the beginning that Allen will never make it in the NFL and they continue to do what they can to discredit him?  You do also realize that PFF is posting this particular comment to purposely rile up Bills fans right?  You are always so quick to come to the media's rescue when people don't like something they say.  You have been doing that since the other Bills board.  If I didn't know better, I would think you are a urnalist too, but IIRC you are a teacher or something.

Mind boggling isn’t it?

[Success]

Big Ben’s Seattle SB win was an “in spite of” situation.

 

The Bills 2019 season is not.  We’re not in this position without Allen and his consistent 4th quarter heroics.

[Scott7975]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Mind boggling isn’t it?

 

Very much so.

1 minute ago, Success said:

Big Ben’s Seattle SB win was an “in spite of” situation.

 

The Bills 2019 season is not.  We’re not in this position without Allen and his consistent 4th quarter heroics.

 

In before someone argues that Allen didn't score a TD every single drive we had the football therefor its his fault we were behind to begin with.  The same people will argue other teams Qbs are great because of 4th quarter come backs.

[HappyDays]

9 hours ago, buffalonian said:

Interesting logic here, WR John Brown is one of the “best free agent signings” this year and is having the statistically top season of his career but somehow the guy throwing him the ball is terrible. 

 

This is overlooked by everyone. John Brown is on pace to have the most receptions, yards, and touchdowns in his career. This is in spite of defenses zoning in on him as the #1 WR with no true #2 WR to take attention away from him.

 

Cole Beasley already has more touchdowns than his career high. He is also on pace to finish with more yards and receptions, or at worst the 2nd most yards and receptions, of his career.

 

Zay Jones, a player that barely belongs on an NFL roster, had 650 receiving yards last year. I would bet good money he will never exceed that.

 

Allen needs to improve quite a bit but he is already pushing the players around him above their mean. I think that is an underrated aspect of his short career so far.

Edited December 14, 2019 by HappyDays

[oldmanfan]

Second year QBs have things to learn.  Allen is no different.  But he's Coming along nicely.  And give Tomlin and his coaching staff credit for protecting their young QB and allowing him to succeed.

 

And ignore pff.  I believe Belichick does and he strikes me as a fairly competent guy.

[CoudyBills]

Josh needs to string together 5 strong games here to end the year.  Then mumble something like scoreboard B word.  

[Mr. K]

More bulletin board jibberish. The great Josh Allen debate... He is either a top 10 talent or another QB for the old dumpster fire that got wheeled out when McBeane took over. If he plays like he did vs Miami, Denver, and Dallas we will all get the result we want. 

[FireChans]

Duck definitely looked superior tonight. He completed a lot of passes to guys in Bills’ jerseys.

[TheBrownBear]

Just now, FireChans said:

Duck definitely looked superior tonight. He completed a lot of passes to guys in Bills’ jerseys.

Haha. Definitely throws a very catchable ball to Bills' players. 

[dubs]

4 INTs. 4

 

 

[Fixxxer]

they can keep their duck, who cares.-

[GoBills808]

INTO MY VEINS

[DJB]

 

Can we change the dog to Allen's face? 

[Mr. K]

He is only leading the worst playoff bound 10-4 team of all time ever into the playoffs and I don't know about you guys but im starting to think these guys are gamers period. The only thing needed is the most consistent Allen possible.

 

[ToGoGo]

You want the narrative on Josh to change? It won't be from winning games. 

 

It'll only happen when someone like Bill Cowher goes on TV during prime time and says he thinks Josh Allen is the Truth and he is officially accurate now. Only then, will people change their minds. In fact, Allen haters will become Allen fans over night. The advanced stats will suddenly show how accurate Allen is! Such is the way the world REALLY works. 

[Numark3]

KING DUCK!

[CoudyBills]

4 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

You want the narrative on Josh to change? It won't be from winning games. 

 

It'll only happen when someone like Bill Cowher goes on TV during prime time and says he thinks Josh Allen is the Truth and he is officially accurate now. Only then, will people change their minds. In fact, Allen haters will become Allen fans over night. The advanced stats will suddenly show how accurate Allen is! Such is the way the world REALLY works. 

Absolutely the truth.  

[TheFunPolice]

Hey people can say whatever they want

 

Wins are what matters

[The Frankish Reich]

On 12/12/2019 at 7:29 PM, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Yeah, right now we're seeing Hodges' ceiling and basically Allen's floor.

Exactly. I think PFF provides valuable information and insight on non-QBs -- the players we're not watching every week on the All 22, like offensive linemen and receivers running routes on the opposite side of the field. With QBs, we already watch every play, so PFF's watchers don't add much.

And they're also too enamored of their small sample size stats, leading them to say preposterous things like "Hodges is the better QB." OK if they want to say "in his 3.5 games, Hodges has actually performed better than Allen in his 13 games." That's quite a different thing. On the baseball analytics side the famous line was "pretty much anyone can hit pretty much anything over 80 plate appearances." And that's what Hodges is. And what Kyle Allen was. Maybe Minshew is the great exception?

[Doc]

There are lies, damned lies and...

[JaCrispy]

On 12/14/2019 at 4:35 AM, buffalonian said:

Interesting logic here, WR John Brown is one of the “best free agent signings” this year and is having the statistically top season of his career but somehow the guy throwing him the ball is terrible. 

Stevie Johnson had career years here even though Fitz was holding the team back...so it’s not totally out of the question...

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 12/12/2019 at 9:08 PM, Wayne Arnold said:

 

 Apologies if already posted.

 

i didn't know schopp worked for them??

 

 

[JoPoy88]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

i didn't know schopp worked for them??

 

 

EE is worse than Schopp, if you can believe it. They ain’t the data scientists and mathematicians they hold themselves out to be. PFF is selling a product, plain and simple. And they will pimp their predictions and make wild statements like this to attempt to back them up at all costs. They’re shills and should be embarrassed.

Edited December 16, 2019 by JoPoy88

[Doc]

Anyone know the twit feed of they moron? The responses should be epic. 

[YattaOkasan]

5 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Stevie Johnson had career years here even though Fitz was holding the team back...so it’s not totally out of the question...

IMO the difference is that Brown has had good years in other places. Now that he’s here he’s having a career year. Stevie never really did anything elsewhere. Smoke isn’t succeeding in spite of Allen. 

[VW82]

The Duck jokes are fun but I don’t think this is the game to rub PFF’s face about Josh. He was kind of bad too, just not flaming duck grease bad.

Edited December 16, 2019 by VW82

[JoPoy88]

Just now, VW82 said:

The Duck jokes are fun but I don’t think this is the game to rub PFF’s face about Josh. He was kind of bad too, just not flaming duck grease bad.

Nah I think it is warranted, although I take your point on Allen not being excellent tonight (I don’t think anyone would argue that he was.) 

 

But PFF deserves to be called out on that statement today and until the end of time. A responsible data scientist would not even make a statement like that based on something as simple as sample size, alone. They deserve to be roasted.

[Johnnycage46]

6 minutes ago, VW82 said:

The Duck jokes are fun but I don’t think this is the game to rub PFF’s face about Josh. He was kind of bad too, just not flaming duck grease bad.

Agenda much.  The Bills are playoff bound.  Get over it.  Yes...the Bills made the playoffs much to your chagrin.  It's ok.  Enjoy it!

[Billznut]

PFF is garbage and should be joked on AND ignored for years 

[K-9]

Duck Dynasty. 
 

My ass. 
 

How many 4th quarter comeback wins is that for Josh Allen now? 

[BuffaloBills1998]

On 12/12/2019 at 7:29 PM, Dr.Sack said:

To be fair when Josh Allen is bad he’s a bottom 3 QB (30-32). Allen is yet to register a 300 yard game & has generally been a midrange QB this year. Duck Hodges is the #28 QB on a good or bad day. 

Honestly who gives a goddamn about throwing for 300 yards I’d rather have the W then a 300 yard game, PS Kelly didn’t always throw for 300 yards sometimes he’d throw for 145 to 200 yards per game, not saying he didn’t have his moments cause for sure he did. But Kelly never once in his career broke for 4,000 or over passing yards the way Marino would do almost every year. Stats are for losers, the final on the scoreboard is for winners

[Albany,n.y.]

32 minutes ago, VW82 said:

The Duck jokes are fun but I don’t think this is the game to rub PFF’s face about Josh. He was kind of bad too, just not flaming duck grease bad.

With the game on the line, Josh Allen threw a TD pass in the endzone.  With the game on the line Duck Hodges threw not 1, but 2 interceptions in the endzone.

 

Josh Allen wins games with the game on the line, PERIOD

[GoBills808]

must

 

bump

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

Stevie Johnson had career years here even though Fitz was holding the team back...so it’s not totally out of the question...

Fitz was the best QB besides Allen we've had since Kelly

 

He played on crappy teams and won us games with some great performances

 

The dude has vastly outplayed his draft slot and has 30k yards. He made Stevie Johnson not the opposite

 

That's why Fitz is still making millions

[mykidsdad]

PFF picking Hodges over Allen is a joke. After 4 interceptions I hope the people at PFF who keep perpetuating the Josh Allen was a terrible pick narrative just give it up already. JA isnt Montana yet, but Duck Hodges, really? PFF sucks. JA and the Bils are proving it on the field.