IgotBILLStopay Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 OK I am gaga we are 2-0 and I look forward to being 3-0 this Sunday. But I do have one peeve from the Giants game. And it involves a coaching decision, not a player. We have 47 seconds left for Halftime and 2 timeouts. Ball on our 28 yard line. We kneel twice and go into the half. Going 35 yards with two timeouts and 47 seconds is certainly not impossible. With Hauschka's foot - that would be a 55 yarder - very much doable, no? Obviously I am a fan of McBeane - but the Coach gotta at least try something on first down, no? You want to be conservative - ok run on first and second down. Worst case you get nowhere. Even a 50 yard bomb on a 3rd and long with 15 seconds and one timeout left would have been fine with Allen's arm. If it gets intercepted at the Giants 22 - they aint gonna move 40 yards in 10 seconds against our defense with just one timeout (I think they may have had one - not sure). So what is there to lose? Just to put it in context: Shades of Marrone there. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/08/nfl-doug-pederson-rips-jaguars-coaches-patriots These are the decisions that help a team win close games. FWIW, Looks like even Marrone is learning and changing now - with that gutsy 2-point attempt at the end of the game against Houston (which was the right call). Bottomline: We dont need advanced analytics to tell us we gotta try for something there. This was a coaching miss. Hope someone asks him that in an interview. And hope he learns from it. 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 The decision to fold and run for the locker room is classic McDermott. It's who he is. If we are going to beat NE in week 4, he is going to have to grow a pair and play much more aggressively, the way Philadelphia played in their Super Bowl victory in 2018. Philly took chances and played to win, and were rewarded for it. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Agreed. Show some confidence in your O to take a shot, and in your D to get a stop if need be. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjj Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 On the road. 2 TD lead. Just stopped them in scoring zone with a lucky turnover. I can't argue with sitting on the ball at Bills own 28. if 15 yards downfield I could see trying a couple throws. 20 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 I would think they have some of those plays tucked away for a better opponent. We'll see. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Part of me says go for more points. I can understand the decision as they were dominating the Giants and were getting the ball to start the 3rd. This is the low risk approach vs a turnover/injury. It all worked out so no real heartburn over the decision. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tisker A Tasker Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Big C said: I would think they have some of those plays tucked away for a better opponent. We'll see. I think Dabol's been doing a lot of this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4_kidd_4 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 I said before the season, would like to see the “step on their throat” mentality from this staff. This post is a good example of when we should see a hint of that, and we didn’t. Yeah, we were pushing them around on both sides most of the day, but that ‘killer instinct’ still needs to be there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said: OK I am gaga we are 2-0 and I look forward to being 3-0 this Sunday. But I do have one peeve from the Giants game. And it involves a coaching decision, not a player. We have 47 seconds left for Halftime and 2 timeouts. Ball on our 28 yard line. We kneel twice and go into the half. Going 35 yards with two timeouts and 47 seconds is certainly not impossible. With Hauschka's foot - that would be a 55 yarder - very much doable, no? Obviously I am a fan of McBeane - but the Coach gotta at least try something on first down, no? You want to be conservative - ok run on first and second down. Worst case you get nowhere. Even a 50 yard bomb on a 3rd and long with 15 seconds and one timeout left would have been fine with Allen's arm. If it gets intercepted at the Giants 22 - they aint gonna move 40 yards in 10 seconds against our defense with just one timeout (I think they may have had one - not sure). So what is there to lose? Just to put it in context: Shades of Marrone there. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/08/nfl-doug-pederson-rips-jaguars-coaches-patriots These are the decisions that help a team win close games. FWIW, Looks like even Marrone is learning and changing now - with that gutsy 2-point attempt at the end of the game against Houston (which was the right call). Bottomline: We dont need advanced analytics to tell us we gotta try for something there. This was a coaching miss. Hope someone asks him that in an interview. And hope he learns from it. I think the team will get there. IIRC we had a pick 6 in a similar situation against miami last year. In this one i kind of felt like after the big punt return, and subsequent turnover that it was kind of a get to the locker room with your lead intact and get ready for the 2nd half. I was actually ok with it at the time it occurred in the game. I agree with the Marrone call as well - backup QB, on the road - try and get 2 yards. I don't agree with his actual playcall though - just the decision to go for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 They struggled to move the ball in their previous possession, things got a bit heated between the two teams, and then they dodged a bullet on the long punt return. I was fine with taking a knee with a two touchdown lead and getting the ball first in the second half. I wonder how many posters calling for them to try to score again before halftime would have been on this forum questioning the decision if it resulted in a turnover and a score going the other way? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said: Part of me says go for more points. I can understand the decision as they were dominating the Giants and were getting the ball to start the 3rd. This is the low risk approach vs a turnover/injury. It all worked out so no real heartburn over the decision. Bills also were getting the ball to start the 2nd half. IF they were not, I might think they would of tried to drive for a FG. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) I wonder if Daboll and McD were a little gun shy because we turned the ball over 4 times against the Jets on relatively low risk plays. With a solid lead and confidence in the D, they may have decided to be conservative in their risk-reward analysis. Edited September 19, 2019 by hondo in seattle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jletha Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Just now, ColoradoBills said: Bills also were getting the ball to start the 2nd half. IF they were not, I might think they would of tried to drive for a FG. Just now, ColoradoBills said: IMO thats even more reason to go for it. Double up on them, stomp on their throats. Instead we let them come back in the game with second half adjustments. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, jletha said: IMO thats even more reason to go for it. Double up on them, stomp on their throats. Instead we let them come back in the game with second half adjustments. The previous game had Josh with 4 turnovers. I would think when Josh and O can prove they are more reliable then the risk/reward will be worth it. At least that's the way McD probably sees it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, freddyjj said: On the road. 2 TD lead. Just stopped them in scoring zone with a lucky turnover. I can't argue with sitting on the ball at Bills own 28. if 15 yards downfield I could see trying a couple throws. I agree with this. If they were a little further downfield then yes, you try an get into range. No need to chance a TO with a 14pt lead on the road in your own end of the field and give them the chance to cut that lead in half.. I believe they got the ball in the 2nd half anyways, so I have no problem with the decision either. Edited September 19, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 This plus the entire 2nd half. We had a lead and played to just hold it. Watch other teams that are used to winning in the NFL and they are not letting up like this. We let the Giants back in the game. It shows a lack of faith in Allen. I would have like to see him sling it and keep the pedal down in the 2nd half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 On side kick to start the game/half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 We had momentum, we were in control of the game. Why risk things. I also think McD is playing a very coy game this year. Once we established control against the Giants the play calling became very conservative. When we needed to score we scored. Honestly I think McD and Daboll are trying to limit the film that the Patriots have for week 4. 5 minutes ago, ngbills said: This plus the entire 2nd half. We had a lead and played to just hold it. Watch other teams that are used to winning in the NFL and they are not letting up like this. We let the Giants back in the game. It shows a lack of faith in Allen. I would have like to see him sling it and keep the pedal down in the 2nd half. I think it's all about limiting film for the Patriots game. I'm betting on a lot of new tricks in that game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Just now, ngbills said: This plus the entire 2nd half. We had a lead and played to just hold it. Watch other teams that are used to winning in the NFL and they are not letting up like this. We let the Giants back in the game. It shows a lack of faith in Allen. I would have like to see him sling it and keep the pedal down in the 2nd half. 2 drives had penalties, 3 rushes vs. 8 or 9 passes? What makes it seem like the foots off the gas? Drive 1 - Knox drop killed the drive. Drive 2 - Incomplete on 2nd and short on 3rd. Started drive with a false start Drive 3 - False start to start drive, incomplete, sack, short on 3rd. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jletha Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 11 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: The previous game had Josh with 4 turnovers. I would think when Josh and O can prove they are more reliable then the risk/reward will be worth it. At least that's the way McD probably sees it. You cant coach in fear of previous games. Everyone knows players need to have short memories, so do coaches. Last game was exactly that. In this game they had moved the ball extremely well and scored 21 points. They have proved they are reliable in this game. Its coaching to not lose, not coaching to win. Of course we did win but we came out flat in the third quarter and they got to within a TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 46 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said: OK I am gaga we are 2-0 and I look forward to being 3-0 this Sunday. But I do have one peeve from the Giants game. And it involves a coaching decision, not a player. We have 47 seconds left for Halftime and 2 timeouts. Ball on our 28 yard line. We kneel twice and go into the half. Going 35 yards with two timeouts and 47 seconds is certainly not impossible. With Hauschka's foot - that would be a 55 yarder - very much doable, no? Obviously I am a fan of McBeane - but the Coach gotta at least try something on first down, no? You want to be conservative - ok run on first and second down. Worst case you get nowhere. Even a 50 yard bomb on a 3rd and long with 15 seconds and one timeout left would have been fine with Allen's arm. If it gets intercepted at the Giants 22 - they aint gonna move 40 yards in 10 seconds against our defense with just one timeout (I think they may have had one - not sure). So what is there to lose? Just to put it in context: Shades of Marrone there. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/08/nfl-doug-pederson-rips-jaguars-coaches-patriots These are the decisions that help a team win close games. FWIW, Looks like even Marrone is learning and changing now - with that gutsy 2-point attempt at the end of the game against Houston (which was the right call). Bottomline: We dont need advanced analytics to tell us we gotta try for something there. This was a coaching miss. Hope someone asks him that in an interview. And hope he learns from it. Why? They were controlling Giants. Why risk a mistake? Now out that in against another team and maybe they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobot Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 41 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: Agreed. Show some confidence in your O to take a shot, and in your D to get a stop if need be. I felt the O was getting too loose at this point in the game. I was good with reeling everyone back in to reset at the half. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Maybe I was dreaming, but hasn’t this topic been discussed thoroughly in 15 other threads since Sunday? Yes, it surprised everybody. Did we lose because we didn’t try to score? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykay Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 20 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said: I agree with this. If they were a little further downfield then yes, you try an get into range. No need to chance a TO with a 14pt lead on the road in your own end of the field and give them the chance to cut that lead in half.. I believe they got the ball in the 2nd half anyways, so I have no problem with the decision either. The way that P.I. is called in this league, It is usually wise to take a shot. If nothing good happens, punt. There wasn't enough time left for the G's to do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, billykay said: The way that P.I. is called in this league, It is usually wise to take a shot. If nothing good happens, punt. There wasn't enough time left for the G's to do anything. Sack-fumble-TD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 58 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said: We have 47 seconds left for Halftime and 2 timeouts. Ball on our 28 yard line. We kneel twice and go into the half. Going 35 yards with two timeouts and 47 seconds is certainly not impossible. I've mentioned this before, but the reason we "just took a knee" there really started at 1:49 left in the half. That is when we got the ball with 2 TOs for what should have been the final drive of the half ending in us getting some points, even a FG. Instead, we started with a blunder of a QB draw that killed all momentum. We ended up going 3 and out, and giving the Giants the ball back at 1:32. Luckily, we got a decent stand by the Defense and got the ball back. I think at that point, McD didnt want to chance anything that would give the Giants momentum going into the half, we already blew our last chance, we were getting the ball after the half... so he decided to just cut any losses and end the half under our own control. I wasnt happy with how that drive at 1:49 worked out, but when we got the ball back I begrudgingly agreed with "Just get off the field for now, and get ready to reboot". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 My peeve was the stupid false starts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 The bigger problem is how they came out in the 3rd Quarter. Didn't they get their half time snack? Were the Rice Krispie Treats stale? The stadium was dead quiet and the Bills were too. They have to fix that! The team literally looked like they were ready for a nap...not a football game. If you do that against better competition, the game will be over before you wake up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: The bigger problem is how they came out in the 3rd Quarter. Didn't they get their half time snack? Were the Rice Krispie Treats stale? The stadium was dead quiet and the Bills were too. They have to fix that! The team literally looked like they were ready for a nap...not a football game. If you do that against better competition, the game will be over before you wake up. I guess the Giants may have made better halftime adjustments than the Bills it looked like. But glad they got their ***** together in the 4th qt though and sealed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 57 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: I wonder if Daboll and McD were a little gun shy because we turned the ball over 4 times against the Jets on relatively low risk plays. With a solid lead and confidence in the D, they may have decided to be conservative in their risk-reward analysis. Ding, ding, ding. Unlucky TO's in that position would kill the momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 37 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Maybe I was dreaming, but hasn’t this topic been discussed thoroughly in 15 other threads since Sunday? Yes, it surprised everybody. Did we lose because we didn’t try to score? Butbutbut....Doug Pedersen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da webster guy Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 interesting to see the different takes on this. As i remember it the Giants secondary was awful. Slow, uninspired. Brown was open all day by a lot and so were many other guys. At one point Bease didn't have a single guy within 15 yards of him on that long completion. We had two timeouts and would need to go about 30 yards for Haush money to try a long bomber. Complete lack of balls to not even run one play and see how it pans out. It's not like Josh was getting destroyed every play. You're developing an offense that is 80% brand new guys playing together. every snap you learn a little more. Here's a live real game scenario that great qb's thrive in. Not only did he fold and take a knee, the offense came out cold in the 2nd half. Poor coaching decision. Missed learning opportunity. Sends a message to your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 This happened a time or two last year and I remember McDermotts words- his concern is giving the other team a score late when you have control of the game up 21-7 is it worth a risk (odds are against you) in your own end you dominated the first half, worked like a dog and are in a good spot you also get the ball to start the second half the bad team goes for more points has a fumble or interception for 6 now its 21-14 and they are emotionally and physically back in the game you dominated the second half and on the score board its a one score game if you pop a play then maybe it changes but i totally agree - ITS NOT WORTH THE RISK AND WITHOUT A DOUBT THE RIGHT CALL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagon127 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 I think if they were playing New England they would have acted differently. Because it was a struggling Giants team, they went for the break. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 I feel like something happened on the prior drive that made me ok with that. Don’t recall what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, ngbills said: This plus the entire 2nd half. We had a lead and played to just hold it. Watch other teams that are used to winning in the NFL and they are not letting up like this. We let the Giants back in the game. It shows a lack of faith in Allen. I would have like to see him sling it and keep the pedal down in the 2nd half. Except we didn't. 10 pass plays to 4 run plays called in the 3rd quarter. Pre-snap penalties and a huge Knox drop stifled the Bills' offense, not conservative play-calling. Do you guys who love to complain even watch the game? Edited September 19, 2019 by eball 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Just Joshin' said: Part of me says go for more points. I can understand the decision as they were dominating the Giants and were getting the ball to start the 3rd. This is the low risk approach vs a turnover/injury. It all worked out so no real heartburn over the decision. I agree with all that especially knowing we get the ball first to start the 3rd. Unfortunately that doesn't always pan out because the opposition is making adjustments to what they've seen to that point. Why not go for a score when their on the ropes and still figuring things out? McD is very conservative with a lead and likes to put it on the D to control tempo instead of putting it on the O, especially with a 2nd year QB. Josh has proven in these 2 games that when he has to move the O for a score in a must situation he comes up clutch. McD and his philosophy is what it is I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 It’s easy to armchair stuff like this. Someone brought up Philly against NE in the Super Bowl. There was also Atlanta, who tried to stay aggressive with a big lead - and it cost them the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 hours ago, jletha said: IMO thats even more reason to go for it. Double up on them, stomp on their throats. Instead we let them come back in the game with second half adjustments. Feel like you dont know what come back means. We really had control of this game throughout. It was only about half a drive in which I had any worries. Game was over as soon as Allen hit Brown to go into field goal position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Da webster guy said: interesting to see the different takes on this. As i remember it the Giants secondary was awful. Slow, uninspired. Brown was open all day by a lot and so were many other guys. At one point Bease didn't have a single guy within 15 yards of him on that long completion. We had two timeouts and would need to go about 30 yards for Haush money to try a long bomber. Complete lack of balls to not even run one play and see how it pans out. It's not like Josh was getting destroyed every play. You're developing an offense that is 80% brand new guys playing together. every snap you learn a little more. Here's a live real game scenario that great qb's thrive in. Not only did he fold and take a knee, the offense came out cold in the 2nd half. Poor coaching decision. Missed learning opportunity. Sends a message to your team. Yep, but you seem to forget the previous drive at 1:49 where the Giants started getting pressure and got a huge shot on Josh as he was called for intentional grounding. They ran 3 plays and the Giants blitzed guys and got pressure, an intentional grounding/personal foul called, and a tackle for loss leading to the punt and a huge chance for the Giants to get it to a 1 score game. The smart thing was to say - let’s go make some adjustments and see what we can do in the second half with a big lead and the ball. I really do not get the false narrative that they went conservative. They threw the ball just as much in the third and early 4th quarter as the rest of the game. The difference was the incompletions and the penalties not a conservative plan. I just think you are so totally wrong and if the Giants had scored because of a fumble or strip sack - you would have been complaining about that also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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