Whaley is an idiot.

[Nuncha]

49 minutes ago, Gugny said:

An idiot who built a top 5 NFL defense, only to be torn down by Kim Pegula hiring Rex Ryan.

 

And everyone on earth was surprised that the Chiefs traded up to get Mahomes.  Don't act like it was a given.  Far from it.

Look at his number 1draft picks during his time here....

 

EJ Manuel

Sammy Watkins

Sammy Watkins (yes twice cause he wasted 2 number one picks on the worthless POS in a draft deeeeeeep at WR)

Shaq Lawson

 

Stellar number 1 picks there....

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Azucho98

[Thurman#1]

14 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I can’t believe how much hate Whaley gets on here sometimes. How can you not respect a guy who swings for the fences? The only thing he didn’t do, and what cost him his job was land a quarterback. If he got anywhere near close to a top 15 quarterback he’d still be here and this team would of been riding the playoffs. We can point out all the silly moves, like Bryce brown from philly or whatever his name was.. But Whaley made some absolutely amazing moves here and some questionable ones too, all in all that defense under Schwartz was lethal and one of my favorite seasons to watch ever of buffalo football. That front 4 was the nastiest I have ever seen on a field. Every play they hit the quarterback it was lovely. It was time to move on so I didn’t have a problem with the firing but I would of preferred fans to show him a little more respect, was a complete sh** show for that guy here. From marrone bailing, to ortons retirement, to the stupid Rex show and a team being sold with uncertain future and then the new owners. It was a job doomed to fail. 

 

 

"How can you not respect a guy who swings for the fences?"

 

Um, with great ease? With very little effort and for obvious reasons? I could come up with more.

 

Swinging for the fences and striking out isn't something a decision-maker should be cheered for. A home run hitter who leads the league in HRs and strikeouts? Maybe. But an executive who leaves the team with a career record under .500? Not hardly. The Watkins trade was a swing for the fences, but it looked awful from minute one.

 

For execs, swinging for the fences means squat. Building an excellent team is what you should be judged on. He didn't do that.

 

And again, that front four you're going on about were all Nix gets.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Zerovoltz]

....this whole thing was discussed alot last year....

 

Here is a reminder of how that all went down.

 

1.  Whaley was going to be fired, and McDermott had only been on the job for a month.  McD was running the draft, BUT, he hadn't had time to evaluate the QB's himself AND he wasn't going to draft one until the NEW GM was in place so they could scout and discuss together.  Whaley was retained through draft day to provide scouting reports etc and run the nuts and bolts..but this was McD's draft.  ...I can't emphasize enough that Whaley was on the way out..and MCD wasn't taking a QB that he hadn't evaluated to stake his reputation on, and his job on....and wasn't about to do that with with a GM on his way out.

 

2.  It is a FACT that the Saints were going to draft Mahomes at 11 if he was there.  Sean Payton has said as much...and on draft day itself, Jordan Speith, the professional golfer, who was in attendance in the Saints war room, tweeted that Mahomes was going to be the pick.

 

3.  was never really confirmed, but it was rumored that Whaley wanted to in fact draft Mahomes...but again, he was on the way out and it wasn't his call....don't even know for sure if this is true.  

 

4.  was rumored that Terry Pegula liked Mahomes...but deffered to his new coach....Pegula, more than anyone is to blame IF you into assigning blame for missing on Mahomes...The front office dynamic created by Pegula prior to the 2017 NFL Draft...was NEVER going to produce a QB as a draft pick.  See point 1 again for why.  

 

The facts alone are enough to absolve Whaley of blame for missing on Mahomes......and it technically falls on McD because he was running the draft, but you can't blame him for passing at QB when he'd only been on the job a month...is a defensive minded coach...and wasn't comfortable taking a QB he hadn't evaluated, etc.  The trade made alot of sense to a new guy, who didn't have anywhere enough information available to him to draft a QB....to go ahead and move down, and get that extra 1st and 3rd for him and the next GM to work with.  It's pretty clear that if anyone is to blame, it's Pegula.  His process of firing/hiring put the team at a disadvantage on draft day.  

[Thurman#1]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

Whaley was there for those drafts and he was part of them.  His scouting history supports that.  I'll never say Whaley was a "great" GM.  But he did a good job in Buffalo during a time where there was absent ownership, at best; and he was ridiculously and disrespectfully undermined by new owners who had no effing clue what they were doing.  The guy was set up to fail from beginning to end, in my opinion.

 

 

You're right, he was a part of those drafts. So were a lot of scouts. 

 

Whaley gets the credit for helping.

[K-9]

48 minutes ago, brianthomas said:

If Allen goes on to have a productive career, this trade with the Chiefs won't mean as much.

But if Mahomes goes on to be the next Brady & Allen somehow busts (even though i highly doubt he will), this coulda woulda shoulda passing on Mahomes will go down as another chapter in the big book of Bills mistakes imo. Regardless of who was making the draft decisions that day.

If Trubiski busts and Mahomes ends up the next Brady, the Bears will look like much bigger fools. 

[Steptide]

I don't blame whaley for not getting mahomes. I blame McDermott. 

 

My thought has always been this : McDermott has always credited Andy Reid as a mentor and someone he learned alot from saying how he came from the Andy Reid coaching tree. So having said that, when cheifs called and said they wanted the bills pick for mahomes, a light should've went off in McDermott's head. Like hey Andy Reid wants this guy, maybe he's that good that they'd give up a first round pick for him. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Steptide

[BringBackFlutie]

I like people that insult GMs based on single draft picks that never happened.

[Happy]

25 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

The fact it was discussed doesn't make it true.  All the scouts worked for Whaley.   The entire scouting process was under Whaley's control. 

 

Why would McD make the actual picks?  The supposition defies logic.  

 

 

 

Defies logic?  Whaley and his scouts were fired on Monday after the draft.  Whaley set the board based off his scout's player data.  McD made the picks; surprised there is any doubt about this...still.

[Kmart128]

Well to be fair I don't think Mahomes would of been as good if he landed else where. Literally got the picture perfect sceneio. Great coaching staff, great play makers, playoff team, and he got to sit behind a vet QB for a year. Doesn't get any more ideal then that. Don't get me wrong he still would have been a really good QB but don't think he would be anywhere near how this season turned out 

 

Also let's not forget that without that trade our team would be missing a lot of key players.

 

We wouldn't have had Tre White

 

Wouldn't have been able to trade up for Dion Dawkins

 

Wouldn't have been able to trade up for Josh Allen or Tremain Edmunds

 

Those are corner stone pieces that we would be missing. No franchise LT, no #1 CB, and no leader at MLB. All just to be change Mahomes for Allen at QB.

 

Question is would you trade Dawkins, Allen, White, and Edmunds for Mahomes. That's a no for me. I see it as a win win. Both teams had a good outcome from the trade and that's what you like to aee

Edited April 22, 2019 by Kmart128

[jahnyc]

It is hard to forget the Whaley era when the NFL Network rebroadcasts recent drafts, including the 2014 draft where we traded up to the fourth pick in the first round to select Sammy Watkins, giving up our first round pick in 2015.  We could have selected Mack or Mike Evans with that pick, or stayed at our original spot and selected Beckhan or Donald.  In the second round, Whaley selected Cyrus Kouandijo.  Still painful.

[billieve420]

Leading up to the draft the were rumblings that Whaley liked Deshaun Watson.

 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2017/04/buffalo_bills_gm_doug_whaley_in_love_with_clemson_qb_deshaun_watson_report.html

 

If true and the Bills were drafting a QB they probably would have went with Watson over Mahomes anyway.

Edited April 22, 2019 by billieve420

[#34fan]

In fairness, his tenure was marked by times he said he wasn't privy to things that were going on?  -Why was that?

[boater]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

And everyone on earth was surprised that the Chiefs traded up to get Mahomes.  Don't act like it was a given.  Far from it.

PTL.. can we get that engraved on a monument stone? So we can reference that every time someone says "But Mahomes"?

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, brianthomas said:

If Allen goes on to have a productive career, this trade with the Chiefs won't mean as much.

But if Mahomes goes on to be the next Brady & Allen somehow busts (even though i highly doubt he will), this coulda woulda shoulda passing on Mahomes will go down as another chapter in the big book of Bills mistakes imo. Regardless of who was making the draft decisions that day.

Give credit to Andy Reid for coaching up  Mahommes in  the NFL.  For all you might know, Mahommes may not have flourished in Buffalo.  Remember he was projected as the 3rd or 4th best QB that required a kong time holding the clipboard.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

An idiot who built a top 5 NFL defense, only to be torn down by Kim Pegula hiring Rex Ryan.

Let’s not forget that it was the front office’s ‘twin devils of deception’ (Brandon and Whaley) lobbying to not let Rex out of the building.  

 

Thanks, and a tip of the hat to Johnnie Cochran for that gem of a phrase.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[Scott7975]

This trade was practically in place in February.  Saying Whaley had nothing to do with it is ludicrous.

[LSHMEAB]

6 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Give credit to Andy Reid for coaching up  Mahommes in  the NFL.  For all you might know, Mahommes may not have flourished in Buffalo.  Remember he was projected as the 3rd or 4th best QB that required a kong time holding the clipboard.  

You can't coach 50 TD's and left handed passes. The kid is a stud and would have been a stud anywhere. There's no reason to suspend belief in order to suit a narrative.

 

If Josh is the real deal, it won't matter.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Edited April 22, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Rocky Landing]

There are lots of people we could dog-pile on from the last two decades. Whaley, his obvious faults notwithstanding, should not be one of them.

[Solomon Grundy]

I think Tipster owes Whaley an apology 

[HOUSE]

[Troll Toll]

I tend to agree with the OP that Whaley is an idiot for not recognizing that the Chiefs were after a QB. Whaley couldn’t scout QBs for **** anyways. He probably could have got the Chiefs to cough up more picks though.

[billsfan_34]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

At that point his pistol was shooting blanks.

Touche’

[stuvian]

I think the Bills are going about building their organization the right way but it looks like we'll be watching Mahomes blow out scoreboards for the next 15 years. 

[ganesh]

35 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

You can't coach 50 TD's and left handed passes. The kid is a stud and would have been a stud anywhere. There's no reason to suspend belief in order to suit a narrative.

 

If Josh is the real deal, it won't matter.

Here is how people rated Mahommes prior to the draft.

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/patrick-mahomes-a-case-in-the-complexity-of-draft-scouting

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/patrick-mahomes?id=2558125

 

What I was saying was that the combination of Mahommes,  Reid and the Chiefs offense were a Match made in heaven for the young QB to blossom and he truly did...Congratulations to him.   

 

His scouting  reports are very similar to that of Josh Allen.  Hopefully Josh will have the same succcess with McDermott

[fansince88]

I still dont care. We got Josh. Im rooting for Josh. Not Patti.

[PetermansRedemption]

Know what pains me the most about that trade, that we traded with the wrong team. Who knows if the Houston deal was on the table, but would have been nice to get lucky and have taken the Houston deal. 4th overall+ a 1st (around 25 I think Houston had) in the current draft sure sounds a lot better than 27th overall+22nd overall in the next draft. 

56 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

Leading up to the draft the were rumblings that Whaley liked Deshaun Watson.

 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2017/04/buffalo_bills_gm_doug_whaley_in_love_with_clemson_qb_deshaun_watson_report.html

 

If true and the Bills were drafting a QB they probably would have went with Watson over Mahomes anyway.

And we never would have heard the end of passing on Mahomes in that situation. 

[TigerJ]

Hindsight is a wonderful gift.  Unfortunately, it is unavailable to everybody until it's too late.  KC had better insight into Patrick Mahomes than everybody else in the league.  It would have been nice had Buffalo been the team that possessed that insight, but I'm not going to single Buffalo out.  There were other QB needy teams that were also clueless about his elite potential and the steep learning curve that Mahomes would be able to manage.  It should also be noted that KC changed their playbook to incorporate a lot of the stuff Mahomes did in college.  That is another item that is to their credit.  I don't think Buffalo had the offensive coordinator who  was capable of doing the same thing at that point.

 

Moving ahead to the last draft, I think Buffalo did much the same thing with Josh Allen that KC did with Mahomes.  Buffalo saw upside where other QB needy teams saw a project.  Lots of people thought Buffalo "settled" for Josh Allen, where Brandon Beane thought he was getting a gem.  Allen is still not a finished product, and it's still possible he could disappoint in his second year, but it's also possible he could blossom into a great one.

[JESSEFEFFER]

No way that Whaley and his staff were going to call the shot on the Bills' next attempt at a franchise QB.  Trading down and getting more ammo for the 2018 draft was all about deferring the QB choice to the next GM.  That is typically a selling point to the next GM hire.  The pool of prospective GMs that would be ok with not being able to select the HC  nor the QB would be tiny.  Whaley was a lameduck, Beane was lined up and the QB choice was deferred.  Makes 100% sense to me.

[Zerovoltz]

1 minute ago, Bills2ref said:

Know what pains me the most about that trade, that we traded with the wrong team. Who knows if the Houston deal was on the table, but would have been nice to get lucky and have taken the Houston deal. 4th overall+ a 1st (around 25 I think Houston had) in the current draft sure sounds a lot better than 27th overall+22nd overall in the next draft. 

 

From what I have read, the Texans, who were also all over Mahomes, didn't think Mahomes would go early.  Once Trubiksy AND Mahomes had come off the board, it was reported that Texans owner Bob McNair told GM Rick Smith to do whatever it took to get Watson.  Houston, as many will recall, had been a playoff team with a very good roster that had always been missing the QB since the franchise began.  Even though the draft room wasn't especially excited about it...they were forced into it by the owner......and given that they had missed the first 2, and even not really liking Watson...Watson has in fact been the franchise QB Houston was lacking.  Not a bad consolation prize.  

 

Here is the Houston War Room as they were drafting Watson....Rick Smith either just farted.....or he's the only happy guy in the room about getting Watson.

[Happy]

1 hour ago, the skycap said:

I think Tipster owes Whaley an apology 

 

 

Actually, I'm surprised Rico hasn't stopped by to take his usual dump on Whaley.  He usually never misses an opportunity 

[SirAndrew]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

You can't coach 50 TD's and left handed passes. The kid is a stud and would have been a stud anywhere. There's no reason to suspend belief in order to suit a narrative.

 

If Josh is the real deal, it won't matter.

Exactly, I’m more concerned with Josh Allen than any of this. If he continues to progress, we’ll have our guy. At that point none of this will matter. This topic only allows the inexplicable amount of Whaley fanboys to come out of the woodwork. I’m quite pleased with Beane so far, and totally over Whaley. 

[Buffalo86]

Not surprising that Whaley didn't expect a QB; he was from the school of thought that you don't draft a QB until you absolutely have to.  He may have expected them to take a WR, but Davis & Williams were already off the board and the next WR taken was Zay Jones.

[RocCityRoller]

plenty of Red Raider 'Air Raid' system QBs put up numbers in college and flopped in the NFL (Colt McCoy).

 

An earlier poster noted Reid tailored a system to Mahomes, and has the clout and background to get the most out of QBs.

 

Mahomes and Reid is a terrific match that maximizes both. It's wonder twin powers joined together.

 

I'm pretty happy with the Bills future despite this flub. KC was already loaded on offense for Alex Smith. Josh Allen is the right guy to grow with the Bills IMO.

Edited April 22, 2019 by RocCityRoller

[jimmy10]

The only thing more futile than mock drafts is playing the shoulda-coulda-woulda game with past drafts. 

[SirAndrew]

2 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

plenty of Red Raider 'Air Raid' system QBs put up numbers in college and flopped in the NFL (Colt McCoy).

 

An earlier poster noted Reid tailored a system to Mahomes, and has the clout and background to get the most out of QBs.

 

Mahomes and Reid is a terrific match that maximizes both. It's wonder twin powers joined together.

 

I'm pretty happy with the Bills future despite this flub. KC was already loaded on offense for Alex Smith. Josh Allen is the right guy to grow with the Bills IMO.

Yep, I was completely uninterested in Mahomes coming into the draft. I thought he had bust written all over him. I’ll also admit to being completely wrong. No one should talk as if he were a sure thing. Keep in mind it was common knowledge that the 2018 QB class would be one of the strongest in years. Waiting a year to draft a franchise QB didn’t seem like a bad idea if you weren’t sold on Mahomes in 2017. 

[ricko1112]

3 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

McD was calling the shots that draft, not Whaley.  Been discussed many times before.

Even I knew that...

[ricko1112]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

Give credit to Andy Reid for coaching up  Mahommes in  the NFL.  For all you might know, Mahommes may not have flourished in Buffalo.  Remember he was projected as the 3rd or 4th best QB that required a kong time holding the clipboard.  

Let's pass judgement after we see what Mahommes does this season. I'm sure there have been plenty of QBs that had a good (in this case awesome) early season and then... RG3 and Krap come to mind, but I'm sure there are many, many others.

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Let’s not forget that it was the front office’s ‘twin devils of deception’ (Brandon and Whaley) lobbying to not let Rex out of the building.  

 

Thanks, and a tip of the hat to Johnnie Cochran for that gem of a phrase.

 

I will never believe that Whaley, in any way, endorsed Rex Ryan coming on as HC.  Rex's presence instantly negated nearly everything Whaley had done with the defense.  And it showed.  Thanks, Kim!!

[mead107]

Think this has been talked about a ton in the past. 

Lets move forward.