Week 7 Bills @ Patriots - on to Foxborough!

[Draconator]

Go team

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Draconator

[Beck Water]

 

Don't like that news about Dalton Kincaid, although if the Bills did Victory Monday and then take Tues off, it doesn't matter....he is hopefully close, since he was practicing last week.

 

And for the Dorsey tar-and-pitchforks crowd:

 

 

John Wawrow, Tim Graham, and at least one other reporter pushed McDermott pretty hard this point in various permutations.  But I guess we ride-n-die with Dorsey, so to speak.  On the other hand, there's this:

 

I saw that there's already an "on to the Pats" topic, but a quick review showed it's ~4 pages of Giants post-game stuff so I thought it might be nice to start new.

[DapperCam]

Pats have been so weird this year.
 

- They lost by 5 points to the Eagles and had the ball in the red zone at the end of the game with a chance to win. 

- They lost by 7 points to the Dolphins and had the ball at the Phins 33 yard line at the end of the game with a chance to tie.

- Lost to the Raiders by 4 (although the Raiders had the backup in for half the game).

 

Then they got smoked by the Cowboys and Saints (wtf?)

 

I’m not sure what my point is other than they’ve been very up and down. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Bills have to win a close one like the Eagles and Dolphins did.

[MJS]

We need to stack wins. Period.

[Scott7975]

Yes, I am ready to move onto the Pats game.  Lets get another W. We need to keep pace with Miami.

[K-9]

Two teams intimately familiar with each other and I expect another tough slog with an intra-divisional opponent. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

Well, at least it's starting to get a little noisier around Dorsey and his play calling. McD may be saying Zero chance now, but it will be in his mind and get louder if things don't get better quickly. Especially if this weekend turns out to be anything like the last couple of weeks.

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, DapperCam said:

Pats have been so weird this year.
 

- They lost by 5 points to the Eagles and had the ball in the red zone at the end of the game with a chance to win. 

- They lost by 7 points to the Dolphins and had the ball at the Phins 33 yard line at the end of the game with a chance to tie.

- Lost to the Raiders by 4 (although the Raiders had the backup in for half the game).

 

Then they got smoked by the Cowboys and Saints (wtf?)

 

I’m not sure what my point is other than they’ve been very up and down. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Bills have to win a close one like the Eagles and Dolphins did.

I think they had Judon and Gonzalez available for the Fins and Eagles game.  Injuries have turned them from a below average team to a really bad team.  Even last week they got banged up with White, Henry, and Usche not returning to the Raiders game.

[Donuts and Doritos]

The burner is on under Dorsey's seat now. The Q. to McD were pretty pointed.

 

Are you considering changing play callers on offense. Then when McD did the coach speak of I'm happy with some of the things we've done on offense, the reporter asked him what exactly it is he's happy with the O. 😳 Rude, but they weren't going to be snowed. I think the point was made to McD that people aren't impressed w/ Dorsey. If it doesn't improve those Q. will be more frequent and more pointed.

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Donuts and Doritos

[dollars 2 donuts]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

We need to stack wins. Period.

 

Yeah, get to 6-2 before the bengals game and then take a look around to see what is going on.

 

beating the bengals, in Cincy, which is still a tall order would get us back on track to where I thought we’d be after 9. 
 

I just thought they would likely be 7-2 then.

[PatsFanNH]

5 hours ago, DapperCam said:

Pats have been so weird this year.
 

- They lost by 5 points to the Eagles and had the ball in the red zone at the end of the game with a chance to win. 

- They lost by 7 points to the Dolphins and had the ball at the Phins 33 yard line at the end of the game with a chance to tie.

- Lost to the Raiders by 4 (although the Raiders had the backup in for half the game).

 

Then they got smoked by the Cowboys and Saints (wtf?)

 

I’m not sure what my point is other than they’ve been very up and down. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Bills have to win a close one like the Eagles and Dolphins did.

Let me see if I can explain..

 

Eagles/Miami/ Jets we had Judon and Gonzalez and the D was hard to score against. Offense was a turnover Machine.

 

Cowboys/Saints — no Judon but worse Gonzalez was out, this was worse because he was our #1 CB and behind him all the other CB were injured as well so now we are down to 4th and 5th stringers. Oh and Jones threw 

 

Raiders - they traded for Jackson who is a competent CB and the D got right. They could have won if Parker wasn’t a bum. 

[Italian Bills]

2 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Well, at least it's starting to get a little noisier around Dorsey and his play calling. McD may be saying Zero chance now, but it will be in his mind and get louder if things don't get better quickly. Especially if this weekend turns out to be anything like the last couple of weeks.

Agree, starting to make some noise could help for sure. 
 

Or Dorsey understands that he must improve the creativity of this offense, more run plays, less shotgun and stop with this 2 to none yards passes through the sticks, or better give him another task, everything but the OC. 

[Gregg]

Hoping the Bills can get out to a huge lead in the 1st half, so the 2nd half is basically garbage time. Not just for the obvious reason but they will have a short week as they play Tampa on Thursday. It would be nice if the Bills could rest their starters for the 2nd half with a quick turnaround to the next game.

[PaattMaann]

32 minutes ago, Gregg said:

Hoping the Bills can get out to a huge lead in the 1st half, so the 2nd half is basically garbage time. Not just for the obvious reason but they will have a short week as they play Tampa on Thursday. It would be nice if the Bills could rest their starters for the 2nd half with a quick turnaround to the next game.

 

There is zero percent chance starters are rested for the second half. Even if we are up 30, starters will not be pulled then. MAYBE for most of the 4th quarter IF we were up by 4 scores, but a whole half??? 

 

Your point is valid, would be nice for some key guys to play less than a full game. Most important is just getting the dub. 

[Johnnycage46]

6 hours ago, DapperCam said:

Pats have been so weird this year.
 

- They lost by 5 points to the Eagles and had the ball in the red zone at the end of the game with a chance to win. 

- They lost by 7 points to the Dolphins and had the ball at the Phins 33 yard line at the end of the game with a chance to tie.

- Lost to the Raiders by 4 (although the Raiders had the backup in for half the game).

 

Then they got smoked by the Cowboys and Saints (wtf?)

 

I’m not sure what my point is other than they’ve been very up and down. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Bills have to win a close one like the Eagles and Dolphins did.

I expect a closer-than-many-expect game.  Of course, the last 2 weeks for the Bills offense maybe sparks them to execute and get into a rhythm and put up points early.  If we get into a close game and let the Pats hang around that plays into the Patriots favor similar to the Giants game.  Hopefully we can come out and put some good scoring drives together early to get the early breathing room and hopefully force some mistakes from the Pats.

[Don Otreply]

4 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Well, at least it's starting to get a little noisier around Dorsey and his play calling. McD may be saying Zero chance now, but it will be in his mind and get louder if things don't get better quickly. Especially if this weekend turns out to be anything like the last couple of weeks.

One would hope Sean is in Dorseys ear, Dorsey has been less than hoped for the last two games, 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

6 minutes ago, Bogie_Klinkhammer said:

This is when the genius runs the ball 55 times

Out of the shotgun? 🤔

[PatsFanNH]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I think they had Judon and Gonzalez available for the Fins and Eagles game.  Injuries have turned them from a below average team to a really bad team.  Even last week they got banged up with White, Henry, and Usche not returning to the Raiders game.

Andrews (center) also went out.. it’s confusing because the rookie replaced him is also Andrews lol. 
 

I think any team losing 2 top caliber players like that on D going be hurting. The D is still good but against both the Saints and Cowboys they were always on the field because the O couldn’t mount any sort of drives at all.. 

47 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

I expect a closer-than-many-expect game.  Of course, the last 2 weeks for the Bills offense maybe sparks them to execute and get into a rhythm and put up points early.  If we get into a close game and let the Pats hang around that plays into the Patriots favor similar to the Giants game.  Hopefully we can come out and put some good scoring drives together early to get the early breathing room and hopefully force some mistakes from the Pats.

Don’t worry Jones will throw at least 1 pass to the Bills and give them opportunity on 1 or 2 more.  

[stuvian]

I would like to humiliate them

[Nuncha]

8 hours ago, DapperCam said:

Pats have been so weird this year.
 

- They lost by 5 points to the Eagles and had the ball in the red zone at the end of the game with a chance to win. 

- They lost by 7 points to the Dolphins and had the ball at the Phins 33 yard line at the end of the game with a chance to tie.

- Lost to the Raiders by 4 (although the Raiders had the backup in for half the game).

 

Then they got smoked by the Cowboys and Saints (wtf?)

 

I’m not sure what my point is other than they’ve been very up and down. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Bills have to win a close one like the Eagles and Dolphins did.

With our broken offense, this game has a very high probability to be close.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Nuncha

[RunTheBall]

Dorsey needs to unleash Josh. We need a couple designed runs especially in the red zone. He's always better after a good run. Don't give me the "he's gonna get hurt" crap that's BS - he's getting hurt in the pocket. It's year friggin 6, the guy can slide or get OOB. Give him the encouragement to take off when there's green in front of him. I firmly believe a big part of our offensive problems is teams aren't worried about him running anymore. If we can see the hesitation then D coordinators absolutely do. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, Bogie_Klinkhammer said:

This is when the genius runs the ball 55 times

Well, there's a twenty minute gabfest for Shtupp to ponder this afternoon, "Do I bet the over or the under?"

*
EDIT:  More like 20 minute monologue.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[Warriorspikes51]

6 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

Dorsey needs to unleash Josh. We need a couple designed runs especially in the red zone. He's always better after a good run. Don't give me the "he's gonna get hurt" crap that's BS - he's getting hurt in the pocket. It's year friggin 6, the guy can slide or get OOB. Give him the encouragement to take off when there's green in front of him. I firmly believe a big part of our offensive problems is teams aren't worried about him running anymore. If we can see the hesitation then D coordinators absolutely do. 

B I N G O !

I say run Josh early with blockers in front, run him in the Red Zone and give him the green light to eat up grass like a Buffalo when his instinct tells him to take off
 

 

[Big Turk]

Based on Belichick's success against Allen, I would think this has a pretty good chance of being a blowout.

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, Bogie_Klinkhammer said:

This is when the genius runs the ball 55 times

Oh I absolutely see the Pats hammering on us.  We have tiny LBs, the run stuffing DT is gone, pass rush has been strong and why would you trust McCorkle to do anything?  Running the ball effectively would shorten the time the Bills have the ball, less likely for Allen to catch fire.. it’s your best shot. 
 

Dorsey, IMO is the wrong guy for the job.  I do wonder if it’s his scheme, play calling, or Josh blatantly doing what he wants to prove points.   Either way, the wrong person is calling the shots.

[scuba guy]

This has to be a startment game by the bills get the funk out of your system on offense. And show all 3 phases of the game.

[Gregg]

10 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

B I N G O !

I say run Josh early with blockers in front, run him in the Red Zone and give him the green light to eat up grass like a Buffalo when his instinct tells him to take off
 

 

 

The Bills are running the ball better this year than in years past. Cook 75 carries 363 yards with 4.8 avg. 1 TD. With the exception of the Jags game Cook has been fine carrying the load running the ball.

[Warriorspikes51]

10 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

The Bills are running the ball better this year than in years past. Cook 75 carries 363 yards with 4.8 avg. 1 TD. With the exception of the Jags game Cook has been fine carrying the load running the ball.

 

Watching a 15 yard Cook run doesn't have the same effect on the rest of the offense or defense as a Josh Allen 15 yard run does. 

[jletha]

21 minutes ago, scuba guy said:

This has to be a startment game by the bills get the funk out of your system on offense. And show all 3 phases of the game.

I remember having this same thought almost every week last season. "This is the get-right game!" and then it never came.

 

I am not down on Dorsey overall because this season is more than just the last two games, but if 2 games becomes 3, 4, 5 then it is the same cycle as last year. Start hot and then the offense stalls and becomes a slog every game. Dorsey needs to show that the ship can be righted.

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, Nuncha said:

With our broken offense, this game has a very high probability to be close.

 

It's not broken, they need to do what they did in the second half when they dominated time of possession, ran the ball effectively from under center, maximized play action passing and scored TD's on 66% of their possessions.

 

They just didn't employ any of the tactics that won them the three previous games during the Jags game or the Giants first half. 

 

They tried running the 2020 offense exclusively, and forget they don't have four legitimate receivers. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Motorin'

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

1 hour ago, Nuncha said:

With our broken offense, this game has a very high probability to be close.

The offense so broken it's 3rd in the league for points per game?

 

inconsistent?  Oh hell yes

[Dr. K]

8 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Watching a 15 yard Cook run doesn't have the same effect on the rest of the offense or defense as a Josh Allen 15 yard run does. 

And running Allen instead of Cook offers the wonderful opportunity to lose the franchise QB for the rest of the season. Cook getting the same fifteen yards as Allen is boring. 

 

/s

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

3 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

And running Allen instead of Cook offers the wonderful opportunity to lose the franchise QB for the rest of the season. Cook getting the same fifteen yards as Allen is boring. 

 

/s

There is a point to be made though: the Bills have made a pointed attempt to limit Josh Allen runs. This helps his long term health. However, that does limit some of the read option/RPO plays the team had success with in the past. If teams are keeping a spy on Allen that's one less active player in coverage.

 

I'm not saying we have Josh truck the ball up the middle 10 times a game. Murray and Cook are looking effective. But maybe 2-3 times a game to keep defenses honest 

30 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

The Bills are running the ball better this year than in years past. Cook 75 carries 363 yards with 4.8 avg. 1 TD. With the exception of the Jags game Cook has been fine carrying the load running the ball.

Definitely in favor of continuing to hand it off. Cook and Murray are doing just fine as primary RB focus.

 

I don't hate doing a few Josh runs to make the rest of the run/pass threat to be a thing again but we might be saving it for the Eagles/Chiefs/Cowboys stretch

[zow2]

I disagree with some here.  Our QB has a shoulder injury. An AC joint sprain (severity unknown).  Anthony Richardson is in a sling and may have shoulder surgery due to a grade 3 AC joint sprain in right shoulder.  This is not the game I want Allen running up the middle and absorbing contact.  This is a game i'd try to dominate the tranches and run more.  Have him under center, some quick short passes and play action.  Yes, running more might mean the game stays close longer, but Josh needs an easy week on the shoulder.  I have faith the D will force a takeway or two.  They didn't last game and will be due.

[Casey D]

23 minutes ago, zow2 said:

I disagree with some here.  Our QB has a shoulder injury. An AC joint sprain (severity unknown).  Anthony Richardson is in a sling and may have shoulder surgery due to a grade 3 AC joint sprain in right shoulder.  This is not the game I want Allen running up the middle and absorbing contact.  This is a game i'd try to dominate the tranches and run more.  Have him under center, some quick short passes and play action.  Yes, running more might mean the game stays close longer, but Josh needs an easy week on the shoulder.  I have faith the D will force a takeway or two.  They didn't last game and will be due.

How do you know he has an AC joint sprain?

[RunTheBall]

22 minutes ago, zow2 said:

I disagree with some here.  Our QB has a shoulder injury. An AC joint sprain (severity unknown).  Anthony Richardson is in a sling and may have shoulder surgery due to a grade 3 AC joint sprain in right shoulder.  This is not the game I want Allen running up the middle and absorbing contact.  This is a game i'd try to dominate the tranches and run more.  Have him under center, some quick short passes and play action.  Yes, running more might mean the game stays close longer, but Josh needs an easy week on the shoulder.  I have faith the D will force a takeway or two.  They didn't last game and will be due.

He hurt his shoulder in the pocket then launched into a LB with it during the scrum. I think he's going to be ok. 

 

Again, Josh running is an integral part of who he is and a huge threat DCs need to account for. He can scrambke when there is the opportunity and not get touched. He can run the power sweep and have minimal contact with all the fat boys in front. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

7 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Well, at least it's starting to get a little noisier around Dorsey and his play calling. McD may be saying Zero chance now, but it will be in his mind and get louder if things don't get better quickly. Especially if this weekend turns out to be anything like the last couple of weeks.

 

I think he's right with his answer.  We're trying to become more balanced in our approach which should bode well for poor weather games, as well as just playoff football in general.  It isn't a finished... product - nor is it ever.  

 

 

I think its ridiculous to outright ask if you're going to demote your offensive coordinator when the team has some of these numbers.

 

2nd in NFL in 3rd down conversions.

2nd in NFL in red zone TD%

5th in yards

3rd in points

12th in rushing (with allen contributing at the lowest clip of his career)

 

Factor in Allen having just... a terrible night in NY to start the season, and the offense playing their worst game last week - and we're still up there.  Like what are we doing?  

[Dan]

10 minutes ago, zow2 said:

I disagree with some here.  Our QB has a shoulder injury. An AC joint sprain (severity unknown).  Anthony Richardson is in a sling and may have shoulder surgery due to a grade 3 AC joint sprain in right shoulder.  This is not the game I want Allen running up the middle and absorbing contact.  This is a game i'd try to dominate the tranches and run more.  Have him under center, some quick short passes and play action.  Yes, running more might mean the game stays close longer, but Josh needs an easy week on the shoulder.  I have faith the D will force a takeway or two.  They didn't last game and will be due.

I’m gonna have to agree with you.   With a sore throwing shoulder, you really want to avoid as much contact as you can.   
 

Prior to reading McD’s comment on it, I was of the opinion 2-3 designed runs by Josh would keep the defense honest, and possibly even settle him into the game.   But they shouldn’t “set him free”.   Going back to last season, teams were assigning a spy to Josh and baiting him into those runs… only to close it down.  Which meant Josh didn’t throw to wide open receivers because he was trying to take advantage of the defense.  It wasn’t going to keep working (which is why 1 read and run QBs usually don’t have long successful careers).
 

As I see it now, Beane says… I got you 2 guards, you have a full back, and 2 pounding (1 now) RBs… run the damn ball.  Incidentally, a large portion of posters here were yelling that same mantra last season.  So the Bills came out in the 2nd half determined to do that and rammed it straight down the Giants teeth. 
 

I think/hope these early season struggles are partly because they’re making every effort to change the offensively philosophy.  Hopefully, when the cold, rainy weather arrives and they need to sustain long, methodical drives, they’ll have it figured out and be able to get the yards without Josh doing it all.  IMO, teams had figured that out and it’s in part why they had all the red zone problems last year. 
 

All they need to do this week is win.  It can be ugly.. I don’t care.  Just keep Josh’s jersey clean, continue to tweak and get the young guys on defense playing well and running the ball effectively.  But most of all… just win. 
 

Go Bills!

[zow2]

4 minutes ago, Casey D said:

How do you know he has an AC joint sprain?

 

I don't.  Doctors who discuss sports injuries on the internet, speculated it's an AC joint sprain by the way he fell and the reaction.   Interesting I noticed Allen's immediate reaction was the same as Richardson's.  Obviously Josh's injury should not be as severe since he still played.

[Franco_92]

6 minutes ago, Dan said:

I’m gonna have to agree with you.   With a sore throwing shoulder, you really want to avoid as much contact as you can.   
 

Prior to reading McD’s comment on it, I was of the opinion 2-3 designed runs by Josh would keep the defense honest, and possibly even settle him into the game.   But they shouldn’t “set him free”.   Going back to last season, teams were assigning a spy to Josh and baiting him into those runs… only to close it down.  Which meant Josh didn’t throw to wide open receivers because he was trying to take advantage of the defense.  It wasn’t going to keep working (which is why 1 read and run QBs usually don’t have long successful careers).
 

As I see it now, Beane says… I got you 2 guards, you have a full back, and 2 pounding (1 now) RBs… run the damn ball.  Incidentally, a large portion of posters here were yelling that same mantra last season.  So the Bills came out in the 2nd half determined to do that and rammed it straight down the Giants teeth. 
 

I think/hope these early season struggles are partly because they’re making every effort to change the offensively philosophy.  Hopefully, when the cold, rainy weather arrives and they need to sustain long, methodical drives, they’ll have it figured out and be able to get the yards without Josh doing it all.  IMO, teams had figured that out and it’s in part why they had all the red zone problems last year. 
 

All they need to do this week is win.  It can be ugly.. I don’t care.  Just keep Josh’s jersey clean, continue to tweak and get the young guys on defense playing well and running the ball effectively.  But most of all… just win. 
 

Go Bills!

Allen runs are going to hit defenses a lot different when they start cropping up in big games and in January, after not being on tape all year.