Elam now CB4 and playing kickoff coverage in the preseason

[MJS]

1 minute ago, machine gun kelly said:

For me, once a guy’s drafted, it can’t be a consideration as to playing time.  I watched the highlights on you tube and to their credit, each quarter was 8-10 minutes so didn’t miss much of the game.  There are injuries every year and we need 4 quality CB’s.  It’s just instead of #2 as projected from the draft, he’s #4.  It’s certainly a disappointment for a 1st pick, but the idea was good.  I think McBeane is going to keep him.

 

On a separate note, I liked what I saw from Benford. 

I think it will be somewhat of a platoon. If they want press, man coverage, Elam could come on the field and excel.

 

And that might be more this year, because McDermott will be blitzing more.

[BarleyNY]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Anyone else remember before TC when Joe B suggested Elam may be a trade candidate and everyone called him an idiot? 

I think they should keep Elam at this point. Unless they are sure he can’t “get it”. His contract is fully guaranteed so we’re paying him either way. That also makes it more difficult to trade him (unless we would reassume his contract if he’s cut by the new team). Otherwise I doubt any team gives up an asset for him at this point. Maybe if they were in a similar spot with a player and contract. 

[TheBrownBear]

Convert to MLB. Profit.

[machine gun kelly]

4 minutes ago, MJS said:

I think it will be somewhat of a platoon. If they want press, man coverage, Elam could come on the field and excel.

 

And that might be more this year, because McDermott will be blitzing more.

I was thinking the same.  There will be certain teams we want more press man coverage and that is his strength.  Benford was made for more zone backing u- Dane.  Dane’s going to get the starting job.

[MPL]

Could the story here be less about Elam and more about Benford being a gem of a pick? But I don't know anything so don't listen to me. 

Also, passing league. CB depth is good, right? Or would you rather have Jamarcus Ingram out there? (I know he had a nice little int today). Or worse, Cam Lewis?!

 

No, no. Give me Elam as CB 3/4 and say, wow, that Benford kid keeps surprising!

[Johnny Hammersticks]

30 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

They reached for a position of need. 

How do you know Kaiir wasn’t the guy they were targeting all along?  You don’t…

[Coach Tuesday]

I just can’t get too excited either way about this.  It happens.  At least they went for a premium position in Round 1.  They hit on Benford.  The process is correct just like SF can’t be too ridiculed for missing on Lance and hitting on Purdy.

 

It’s the rest of that draft that really irks me - Cook (no need for that pick in around 2), Benard (can’t play), Shakir (can’t play), Azeria, Tenuta, Spector.  Benford salvages it a bit but man - Beane ate dirt in 2022.

[Billl]

49 minutes ago, MJS said:

Blockers? He's a CB. He isn't supposed to hold up against blockers.

Well that’s good because Myles Boykin gave him a push at the LOS on the first snap of the second half last week that send him flying onto his butt.  I didn’t realize that the new defensive scheme McDermott utilizes doesn’t require CBs to tackle.  Elam clearly did, though.  Hopefully they got that grass stain off the seat of his white pants.

[BigDingus]

Hate to say I told ya so.

 

People can blame McDermott all they want & say how great Elam is, but it's extremely clear there's a reason he's not starting.

 

It's not because we fans know so much better than our coaches... they see him every day & analyze every little detail on film and in person. Do you think they want their 1st round pick to be riding the bench or playing ST? Hell no! 

 

Do you think they drafted Benford in the 6th round  because they thought he was better than their 1st round pick? NO. But somehow Benford has managed to move his way up both last year & this year. Dane Jackson was drafted in the 7th round, and he worked his way into the starting rotation too. Even with Tre out, Elam has not been able to do the same.

[DCofNC]

Not sure how many times Beane needs to see, YOU DON’T DRAFT FOR NEED and succeed.  
 

These continued draft misses are killing this roster.

[Virgil]

24 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

They knew who he was and his strengths before the damn draft yet a nickel zone team still takes him?  Unbelievable??  Better get something for him.

 

From everything I've heard about the FO and how they draft, they look for potential and build.  I'm sure Elam was someone they felt had all the potential in the world and could be molded to fit their system.  Doesn't always work out.  Regardless, I have no doubt he'd be more successful in a different system and has great value.  With team control for 3 more years at a cheap cost, I would definitely expect at least a 2nd if they tried to trade him.

4 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

Hate to say I told ya so.

 

People can blame McDermott all they want & say how great Elam is, but it's extremely clear there's a reason he's not starting.

 

It's not because we fans know so much better than our coaches... they see him every day & analyze every little detail on film and in person. Do you think they want their 1st round pick to be riding the bench or playing ST? Hell no! 

 

Do you think they drafted Benford in the 6th round  because they thought he was better than their 1st round pick? NO. But somehow Benford has managed to move his way up both last year & this year. Dane Jackson was drafted in the 7th round, and he worked his way into the starting rotation too. Even with Tre out, Elam has not been able to do the same.

 

I always think about Cousins and RG3, or even more recently the Lance and Purdy situation.

 

These things just happen

[DCofNC]

Just now, Virgil said:

 

From everything I've heard about the FO and how they draft, they look for potential and build.  I'm sure Elam was someone they felt had all the potential in the world and could be molded to fit their system.  Doesn't always work out.  Regardless, I have no doubt he'd be more successful in a different system and has great value.  With team control for 3 more years at a cheap cost, I would definitely expect at least a 2nd if they tried to trade him.

They better get at least that considering the dead cap is 4x what he costs to keep.

[Virgil]

1 minute ago, DCofNC said:

They better get at least that considering the dead cap is 4x what he costs to keep.

 

I've never fully understood how the dead cap works with rookie deals, especially since he's not getting paid much these next 3 years.  With how tight we are to the cap, that dead cap hit could be a saving grace factor for him staying.  But who knows

[DCofNC]

18 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I just can’t get too excited either way about this.  It happens.  At least they went for a premium position in Round 1.  They hit on Benford.  The process is correct just like SF can’t be too ridiculed for missing on Lance and hitting on Purdy.

 

It’s the rest of that draft that really irks me - Cook (no need for that pick in around 2), Benard (can’t play), Shakir (can’t play), Azeria, Tenuta, Spector.  Benford salvages it a bit but man - Beane ate dirt in 2022.

Could not agree more.  I didn’t like a single pick out of the first 3 rounds, you had a guy they panic picked in round 1, over drafted a non-starter at RB in 2 and took a guy that may have been undrafted in round 3.  Just awful.

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

 

I've never fully understood how the dead cap works with rookie deals, especially since he's not getting paid much these next 3 years.  With how tight we are to the cap, that dead cap hit could be a saving grace factor for him staying.  But who knows

Signing bonus gets fast forwarded to this year.  That’s the killer.

[nucci]

22 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I just can’t get too excited either way about this.  It happens.  At least they went for a premium position in Round 1.  They hit on Benford.  The process is correct just like SF can’t be too ridiculed for missing on Lance and hitting on Purdy.

 

It’s the rest of that draft that really irks me - Cook (no need for that pick in around 2), Benard (can’t play), Shakir (can’t play), Azeria, Tenuta, Spector.  Benford salvages it a bit but man - Beane ate dirt in 2022.

except they gave up a lot for Lance

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, Process said:

I don't know. Mcdermott was literally licking his lips when Elam whipped out the notebook in the predraft interview. 

Probably liked Elam but I bet he liked the wrestling center from Iowa Tyler Linderbaum a lot more.

[BILLieve85]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Why would you trade him? His value has to be what, a max of a 4th round pick? You'd be killing $11M of cap space for a 4th or 5th round pick? He's worth more than that as a 4th DB.

That cap room is a decent RT in the offseason. Elam is a solid CB but this team doesn’t use man enough. This team has plenty of DB depth. Oh well

[BuffaloBillyG]

45 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I think they should keep Elam at this point. Unless they are sure he can’t “get it”. His contract is fully guaranteed so we’re paying him either way. That also makes it more difficult to trade him (unless we would reassume his contract if he’s cut by the new team). Otherwise I doubt any team gives up an asset for him at this point. Maybe if they were in a similar spot with a player and contract. 

I do as well. However I feel like a lot of the people that are calling to move Elam now bashed Joe for even suggesting it. The very fact that it's a topic here and other places show that maybe his opinion was more than click bait.

[SoMAn]

1 hour ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

They traded up to draft Elam.  Doesn’t sound like a “collective fingers crossed” move to me.  Especially with McCreary and Gordon still on the board.  I’d guess that they really liked him at the time.  

You may be right. It’s all conjecture and supposition from me. Obviously, they felt Elam was or could be better than McCreary and Gordon. Elam may suddenly ‘get it’ and turn out to be a good choice after all. But right now, he doesn’t seem to be high in the pecking order. He’s trending towards ‘bust’. 
 

 

 

 

[Virgil]

30 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Could not agree more.  I didn’t like a single pick out of the first 3 rounds, you had a guy they panic picked in round 1, over drafted a non-starter at RB in 2 and took a guy that may have been undrafted in round 3.  Just awful.

Signing bonus gets fast forwarded to this year.  That’s the killer.

I wonder what the dead cap space was on the Trey Lance deal.   

[BillsVet]

53 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I just can’t get too excited either way about this.  It happens.  At least they went for a premium position in Round 1.  They hit on Benford.  The process is correct just like SF can’t be too ridiculed for missing on Lance and hitting on Purdy.

 

It’s the rest of that draft that really irks me - Cook (no need for that pick in around 2), Benard (can’t play), Shakir (can’t play), Azeria, Tenuta, Spector.  Benford salvages it a bit but man - Beane ate dirt in 2022.

 

I'd like to say RD1 busts happen, but the HC seems to have found guys who could be that zone CB2 without high picks.  Which makes sense, because he's a former secondary coach and been coaching defensive football for a long time.  

 

Leads me to believe there's a deeper disconnect at OBD between the coaches compared to the scheme and talent evaluators.  Because unless McD pounded the table for Elam over everyone's evals, this is a bad look made worse by their positional value decisions in RD2 and RD3.  First guy plays a position that should get PT in year 1 - and then doesn't play.  Bernard is clearly on the way out.

 

I don't think it's too soon to start saying Beane ain't meeting the hype anymore.  And McD isn't either in whatever role he plays in personnel.  Lots of work to do, covered up by Josh and Diggs.     

[ToGoGo]

My sense of that draft was that we needed a CB2 and there was a run on CBs before our pick. Elam was the last CB with a 1st round grade and we took him despite him not really being the guy we wanted. 
 

He has amazing physical tools but something isn’t clicking mentally with him yet. There’s still time for it to click and we should give him until next training camp to figure it out. 
 

In the meantime we’ve had two amazing late round CB picks to soften the blow. I don’t get these Beane haters. I think they just don’t get it. I think they’ve just spent the last 25 years blaming the HC and GM for everything that it’s just a habit. Winning exposes these fans for what they are. Idiots with personal problems. 

[CNYfan]

The ballet dancer is going to be a better player, maybe.   He would have been available with a move back a few spots.  

[Johnny Hammersticks]

32 minutes ago, SoMAn said:

You may be right. It’s all conjecture and supposition from me. Obviously, they felt Elam was or could be better than McCreary and Gordon. Elam may suddenly ‘get it’ and turn out to be a good choice after all. But right now, he doesn’t seem to be high in the pecking order. He’s trending towards ‘bust’. 

 

That is possible.  There also is a chance that he isn’t catching on to the zone heavy scheme like was hoped.  He might be better suited for a defense with more press man coverage.  No idea.

[Niagara Dude]

3 hours ago, Process said:

What's your play here?

 

Hang onto him and hope he develops?

 

Trade him while he still has some value? If he's not playing, his value will only go down the further we get from when he was drafted. 

 

I would say trade him, but we don't have a lot of depth. Who is CB4 then, Austin? If a bad team offered a 3rd, I'd probably take it. 

 

I didn't follow him in college, but him not being a fit for our defense is not a surprise, right? We knew that already going into the draft? That's the frustrating part. 

Still early but unless things change this could be another bust top pick from Beane,  I really thought this kid had elite talent skills

[Dr.Sack]

To the trade him now geniuses: yeah let’s trade a guy who is under contract the next 3-4 seasons and is also

5-6 years younger than our aging and sometimes injured presumed starters. 

[Niagara Dude]

27 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

I'd like to say RD1 busts happen, but the HC seems to have found guys who could be that zone CB2 without high picks.  Which makes sense, because he's a former secondary coach and been coaching defensive football for a long time.  

 

Leads me to believe there's a deeper disconnect at OBD between the coaches compared to the scheme and talent evaluators.  Because unless McD pounded the table for Elam over everyone's evals, this is a bad look made worse by their positional value decisions in RD2 and RD3.  First guy plays a position that should get PT in year 1 - and then doesn't play.  Bernard is clearly on the way out.

 

I don't think it's too soon to start saying Beane ain't meeting the hype anymore.  And McD isn't either in whatever role he plays in personnel.  Lots of work to do, covered up by Josh and Diggs.     

Exactly....  the Chiefs won the Super Bowl last season because they hit on so many picks.  That is just not happening with the Bills 

[Bill from NYC]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

I was going to wait until the game was over to make this exact post. 
 

I really think the Bills should take trade offers for him.  It’s not that he isn’t good. He just doesn’t fit our system.  
 

A team like the Ravens would love to have him and I’m sure there are other DB needy teams. 
 

Ideally, there’s a team out there with good OT or MLB depth that needs a DB, but this isn’t Madden. 
 

For me, if you can get a 2nd rounder, go for it 

Smart move to trade up for him, no? I mean, we really didn't need blockers and receivers for Josh. We desperately needed a first round corner in a deep CB draft. 

If Elam doesn't pan out, let's just hope that McDermott (the man really in charge) has learned his lesson wrt the draft.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, BigDingus said:

Hate to say I told ya so.

 

People can blame McDermott all they want & say how great Elam is, but it's extremely clear there's a reason he's not starting.

 

It's not because we fans know so much better than our coaches... they see him every day & analyze every little detail on film and in person. Do you think they want their 1st round pick to be riding the bench or playing ST? Hell no! 

 

Do you think they drafted Benford in the 6th round  because they thought he was better than their 1st round pick? NO. But somehow Benford has managed to move his way up both last year & this year. Dane Jackson was drafted in the 7th round, and he worked his way into the starting rotation too. Even with Tre out, Elam has not been able to do the same.

Everything you said is true and a rational argument. 

Except you left the part out about the coaches making mistakes. What if McDermott really isn't that great at talent evaluation? I posted numerous examples of guys he played that were awful and others that were good and didn't play. 

What if he has some inherent bias that we don't know about? Beane straight up said Elam has an issue with practice. Well maybe the kid is better during games. 

Maybe Benford is a great #2 CB and it won't matter. Maybe Elam is just dumb and can't learn the defense. 

All we can do is sit back and watch. CB#2 is about the 5th most important issue this team is facing. They have solid depth and they should be fine whoever they put out there.

 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

I really don't care if all he ever becomes is high end backup/spot-starter/role player. Most late 1st rounders become that.

 

For a team with a real chance to make the Super Bowl, I'd rather they maintain their depth than trade it away 

????

 

That's not even true from his draft class. Most players drafted #20-#32 started almost their entire rookie years barring injury. 8 of that 14. That's not including the one who got hurt.

[Luka]

3 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I still don’t understand this. I thought he was quite good at times last year. Had 2 huge ints

 

He was 2nd on the team in interceptions with limited snaps. McDermott is going lunch pail over talent. Very Jauron of him.

[Augie]

3 hours ago, CSBill said:

Time to trade him. 

 

I sold a house in 2008. It’s now worth 2.5 times what we sold it for. Possibly the dumbest thing I have ever done, at least financially. Never sell at the bottom. 

 

.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Augie

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

Not sure how many times Beane needs to see, YOU DON’T DRAFT FOR NEED and succeed.  
 

These continued draft misses are killing this roster.

Wrong. You should always draft for need. Torrence was a need. Kincaid was a need. Allen Edmunds Oliver Rousseau all need picks. 

Just becuase a need pick doesn't work out doesn't mean it is the wrong strategy.  A BPA philosophy is silly and is never actually followed by anyone. What if a DT or S was BPA this first/second round and they passed on a pass catcher and a guard for another DT or S?

A tiny MLB from Baylor was not a need. A backup RB was not a need. Last year the need was to get an OT or another OL. They failed and had to spend dollars on McGovern.

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Ethan in Cleveland

[streetkings01]

Not sure why he was drafted by us? He’s a man corner and we run a zone scheme. 

[BigDingus]

6 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Everything you said is true and a rational argument. 

Except you left the part out about the coaches making mistakes. What if McDermott really isn't that great at talent evaluation? I posted numerous examples of guys he played that were awful and others that were good and didn't play. 

What if he has some inherent bias that we don't know about? Beane straight up said Elam has an issue with practice. Well maybe the kid is better during games. 

Maybe Benford is a great #2 CB and it won't matter. Maybe Elam is just dumb and can't learn the defense. 

All we can do is sit back and watch. CB#2 is about the 5th most important issue this team is facing. They have solid depth and they should be fine whoever they put out there.

 

 

Coaches can make mistakes, but they've got a team of coaches all evaluating these guys. If anything, the mistake was made at the draft level.

 

Last year Frazier was calling the defense, and he didn't like what he saw. This year it's McDermott directing things, and he's only slipped further. All the assistants & position coaches also have input, yet somehow a 6th & 7th round pick managed to earn their spots while the guy McDermott & Co. handpicked to take the reigns has fallen.

 

Again, they definitely did not want this. But better to correct a mistake rather than complicate one by making ANOTHER mistake & forcing an inferior player into the starting lineup due to draft status. Elam had chances in games. He had chances due to injuries. Even Benford was hurt for a while giving him a new opportunity to prove himself.

 

Yet here we are, with another camp & preseason under our belts & Elam is out there on ST. This isn't just a one time mistake or coaches having it out for him. The opportunities have been there. 

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I just can’t get too excited either way about this.  It happens.  At least they went for a premium position in Round 1.  They hit on Benford.  The process is correct just like SF can’t be too ridiculed for missing on Lance and hitting on Purdy.

 

It’s the rest of that draft that really irks me - Cook (no need for that pick in around 2), Benard (can’t play), Shakir (can’t play), Azeria, Tenuta, Spector.  Benford salvages it a bit but man - Beane ate dirt in 2022.

While missing is t a big deal if I was a 49ers I be ticked they missed on a top 3 pick considering what they gave up for him!  
 

As for Elam I wanted the Pats to draft him last year and not Savage. I think he would excel in NE style D just like Gilmore did. 

[Special K]

3 hours ago, sven233 said:

You hold onto him and work to develop him unless you can trade him for an above average MLB.  If you can get someone serviceable in here at MLB, as much as I want to be patient with Elam because he does have talent, we need to worry about this season first.

 

Meanwhile, Devin Lloyd, the player the Bills should have drafted in the first found instead of Elam, is starting at MLB for the Jags and is primed to have a breakout season....oops.

[finn]

3 hours ago, jwhit34 said:

There is about 0% chance they are trading him.

Do posters who say "0% chance" understand that means, like, 0% chance? 

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, Dopey said:

And then?
That’s a helluva plan. Beane better be on the lookout. You’re obviously ready to be our new GM. 

 

He would be more suitable in New Jersey with JESTS.

[Dopey]

14 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

He would be more suitable in New Jersey with JESTS.

I agree. I think he would be a better fit for them. I will say, our staff does a really good job of coaching up dbs, especially late round picks. They can do the same with Elam. To trade a player after 1 season is just plain dumb. A lot of emotional GMs here. We have a very deep and talented cb group and that includes Elam.