MLB

[Orlando Tim]

2 hours ago, jaybills said:

Edmunds was not that great. All he did was cover range side to side. Couldn't shed a block to save his life, never sacked anyone, and I don't remember him making game changing plays too often. #Replaceable. 

Seriously your going with he is below average when he was the captain and leading tackler of the #1 defense two years in a row? I assume you think Chicago really screwed themselves with that contract?

[JoPoy88]

2 hours ago, harmonkillebrew said:

 

 

 

I'm having a hard time understanding our small LB drafting strategy. 

 

 

Whatever man. i feel like you have a hard time understanding a lot of things. Trust that Beane knows more than you. Calm down and wait and see.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Exactly.  How much clearer does Beane have to be?  I do think we may see 3 LBs on the field more.

I'm hoping and praying we return to a more traditional 4-3 alignment.  And besides Milano, I'd have no problem seeing a rotation similar to the DL.  The days of the 255lb thumper is over. Linebackers will be smaller, lighter hybrids capable of coverage and blitzing. 

[appoo]

Run fits > hammering guards and block shedding 

[oldmanfan]

10 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I'm hoping and praying we return to a more traditional 4-3 alignment.  And besides Milano, I'd have no problem seeing a rotation similar to the DL.  The days of the 255lb thumper is over. Linebackers will be smaller, lighter hybrids capable of coverage and blitzing. 

I think the D may be a lot more varied and aggressive with McD calling it.

[ndirish1978]

They want interchangeable LBs. It was pretty obvious who the mike was at all times last year - it was the 6'5 guy standing in the middle. You can do this, but you need to get bigger on the Dline. That's why we have about 42 guys who are around 6' 220 vying for the job, the D is changing. 

[Chaos]

3 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

We are clearly emphasizing speed over size at the position. The one thing I will say is based on the way they are structured it appears they are going to be a little more aggressive and gamble a little more instead of sitting in the cover 2 shell. 
The offense the Bills have the can afford to do it to try to gain an extra possession or two 

How do teams gain extra possessions? 

[MrEpsYtown]

Well I didn’t buy the whole Dodson has a chance to start deal. Now I kind of have to. He’s only 24 years old about to turn 25, been in the system 4 years now. He has good size and athleticism. He has hung around this long because McDermott loves him. Remember that he served a suspension coming into the league. There were red flags…yet the Bills held on to him, stood by him, and he worked to stay. If I am a betting type man, I would say it’s his job to lose. I feel like McDermott maybe wants to give Dodson a real shot at this. 
 

However, I do think Baylon Spector is going to give him a run for his money. He has instincts and athleticism. He is a few pounds lighter but more athletic. Spector is also 24 going on 25. So there isn’t any advantage there. Dodson has all that experience over Spector. What Spector was lacking in was functional strength and if he got after it this offseason, he truly has a shot. I just keep going back to how good he looked in preseason and he was a difference maker playing at a high level at Clemson. One other thing is that he played in the 4-2-5 as a stacked backer at Clemson, which essentially what the mike is asked to do here…though he spent most of his time as a will, I think he can play the mike.  
 

To me Bernard isn’t in this thing. He’s smaller than these guys, and I just didn’t see anything last year that told me he could step in and be a starter this year at mike. He also played in that 3-4 type front at Baylor so the job and run fits are quite different. I think he is still two years away and in my mind, Dorian Williams is already better.  I dunno. 
 

To me Klein is the vet you have around as insurance if this all goes FUBAR, but I am not sure he is a truly a starter anymore. 
 

I like Dorian Williams and I think he can play mike. He played it for 3 years at Tulane. I think Beane’s apprehension about playing him inside is that he likely feels Williams will not be able to step in and be the green dot guy right away. IMO the only guy in this draft who could have done that was Campbell. Williams is only 21 goin on 22 and started at Tulane for 3 years. He is likely not ready but the upside is there. If I recall, McBean were super apprehensive about Tremaine being the guy calling the defense as a rookie. They had their doubts and said some of the same things they are saying about Williams now, but Tremaine picked it up quick. I could see the same thing happening here. 
 

So to me it is Dodson vs Spector (if he got stronger) with an outside chance Williams blows them both out of the water. 
 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[Buffarukus]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Well I didn’t buy the whole Dodson has a chance to start deal. Now I kind of have to. He’s only 24 years old about to turn 25, been in the system 4 years now. He has good size and athleticism. He has hung around this long because McDermott loves him. Remember that he served a suspension coming into the league. There were red flags…yet the Bills held on to him, stood by him, and he worked to stay. If I am a betting type man, I would say it’s his job to lose. I feel like McDermott maybe wants to give Dodson a real shot at this. 
 

However, I do think Baylon Spector is going to give him a run for his money. He has instincts and athleticism. He is a few pounds lighter but more athletic. Spector is also 24 going on 25. So there isn’t any advantage there. Dodson has all that experience over Spector. What Spector was lacking in was functional strength and if he got after it this offseason, he truly has a shot. I just keep going back to how good he looked in preseason and he was a difference maker playing at a high level at Clemson. One other thing is that he played in the 4-2-5 as a stacked backer at Clemson, which essentially what the mike is asked to do here…though he spent most of his time as a will, I think he can play the mike.  
 

To me Bernard isn’t in this thing. He’s smaller than these guys, and I just didn’t see anything last year that told me he could step in and be a starter this year at mike. He also played in that 3-4 type front at Baylor so the job and run fits are quite different. I think he is still two years away and in my mind, Dorian Williams is already better.  I dunno. 
 

To me Klein is the vet you have around as insurance if this all goes FUBAR, but I am not sure he is a truly a starter anymore. 
 

I like Dorian Williams and I think he can play mike. He played it for 3 years at Tulane. I think Beane’s apprehension about playing him inside is that he likely feels Williams will not be able to step in and be the green dot guy right away. IMO the only guy in this draft who could have done that was Campbell. Williams is only 21 goin on 22 and started at Tulane for 3 years. He is likely not ready but the upside is there. If I recall, McBean were super apprehensive about Tremaine being the guy calling the defense as a rookie. They had their doubts and said some of the same things they are saying about Williams now, but Tremaine picked it up quick. I could see the same thing happening here. 
 

So to me it is Dodson vs Spector (if he got stronger) with an outside chance Williams blows them both out of the water. 
 

 

 

good insight i really didnt think dodson was in any contention because they choose klien in edmonds absence. or was dodson on suspension during that time? he def has somthing the front office likes but i agree with the Spector analysis. it always seems strange to me when guys seem like great players in preseason then fall off the map. the argument is "well they are playing guys that will be flipping burgers". no. they are playing against the the competition they are given and excelling. they cant demand to be first string so this is all that can be assessed. the coaches obviously see more in practice but how can anything definitive be said about how they do against better players if not given the legitamate opportunity. i really like Spector and hope i can see what he's got against starting caliber players. 

[harmonkillebrew]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Well I didn’t buy the whole Dodson has a chance to start deal. Now I kind of have to. He’s only 24 years old about to turn 25, been in the system 4 years now. He has good size and athleticism. He has hung around this long because McDermott loves him. Remember that he served a suspension coming into the league. There were red flags…yet the Bills held on to him, stood by him, and he worked to stay. If I am a betting type man, I would say it’s his job to lose. I feel like McDermott maybe wants to give Dodson a real shot at this. 
 

However, I do think Baylon Spector is going to give him a run for his money. He has instincts and athleticism. He is a few pounds lighter but more athletic. Spector is also 24 going on 25. So there isn’t any advantage there. Dodson has all that experience over Spector. What Spector was lacking in was functional strength and if he got after it this offseason, he truly has a shot. I just keep going back to how good he looked in preseason and he was a difference maker playing at a high level at Clemson. One other thing is that he played in the 4-2-5 as a stacked backer at Clemson, which essentially what the mike is asked to do here…though he spent most of his time as a will, I think he can play the mike.  
 

To me Bernard isn’t in this thing. He’s smaller than these guys, and I just didn’t see anything last year that told me he could step in and be a starter this year at mike. He also played in that 3-4 type front at Baylor so the job and run fits are quite different. I think he is still two years away and in my mind, Dorian Williams is already better.  I dunno. 
 

To me Klein is the vet you have around as insurance if this all goes FUBAR, but I am not sure he is a truly a starter anymore. 
 

I like Dorian Williams and I think he can play mike. He played it for 3 years at Tulane. I think Beane’s apprehension about playing him inside is that he likely feels Williams will not be able to step in and be the green dot guy right away. IMO the only guy in this draft who could have done that was Campbell. Williams is only 21 goin on 22 and started at Tulane for 3 years. He is likely not ready but the upside is there. If I recall, McBean were super apprehensive about Tremaine being the guy calling the defense as a rookie. They had their doubts and said some of the same things they are saying about Williams now, but Tremaine picked it up quick. I could see the same thing happening here. 
 

So to me it is Dodson vs Spector (if he got stronger) with an outside chance Williams blows them both out of the water. 
 

 

Good analysis, but I can't say any of this gives me confidence in our D this year.  We missed Edmunds the few times he was out and we just don't have an adequate replacement, let alone an upgrade. It's looking like our D will take a step backwards this year. The front office screwed up.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, harmonkillebrew said:

Good analysis, but I can't say any of this gives me confidence in our D this year.  We missed Edmunds the few times he was out and we just don't have an adequate replacement, let alone an upgrade. It's looking like our D will take a step backwards this year. The front office screwed up.

 
Yeah its a calculated risk they are taking because they did not want to spend money on the position. There most certainly will be a step back at the position. How much that affects wins and loses remains to be seen. I suppose the are banking on everyone around the positions improving. The story was always that Tremaine affected the game in ways we couldn’t see. We will find out if that is true or not pretty quickly. 
 

If I’m the Bills, I am calling the Chargers to see what it would take to get Kenneth Murray. They just rejected his 5th year option and took his replacement in Daiyan Henley. I think Murray would excel in this system. Maybe it costs a 5th? Maybe a guy like Boogie or AJ fit better as 5 techs in their D? Free agency is pretty dry there, so maybe a trade like this could be had. 

[JerseyBills]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

You could see it right here in the Williams thread.  By me.

They're not "all", but 4 out of 10 are same height or shorter.  Bit heavier, but I do believe the S&C crew can fix that if Williams is willing to put in the work.

 

 

Well yeah, but Beane also didn't say "we believe the answer IS in house", he said somewhat more waffling stuff like "the answer MAY BE in house."

Ya he probably has to put on a good 10-20 pounds but overall,  his size is being super exaggerated 

[T master]

17 hours ago, harmonkillebrew said:

Anyone have any idea WTF we're doing??

 

Options:

- Edmunds was such a bad fit that we decided we didn't need to replace him?

- We're going to play more base 3 LB, with no real "MLB"

- we're moving to a 3-4 and Daquan Jones will play NT

- We will sign a FA MLB (who's left... Myles Jack?)

- Klein will be a stop-gap at MLB until Dorian Williams can learn the defense and gain 15 lbs

- others?

 

 

I'm having a hard time understanding our small LB drafting strategy. 

 

 

 

They had more than 1 chance to get a MLB that would have a decent upside but didn't but Beane knows better than i do so i'll just go with it for now & i'm sure those haters here will let him know if it doesn't work out .

[boyst]

16 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Linebackers are over rated

 

I make it a policy to state why I disagree. 

 

Linebackers are underrated because the position is so weak in quality in today's NFL. The offensive skill positions growth in the last 10-15 years out paced defense that defenses haven't caught up. Exacerbated but the NFL leaning rules to favor the offense.

 

Today's linebackers don't attack downhill,  they can't give up on the pass. Today's LBs can't be bruising hitters because they'll be penalized. We have a unique skillset on defense that isn't fair to draw to other teams because we run such a specialized scheme. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

11 hours ago, harmonkillebrew said:

Good analysis, but I can't say any of this gives me confidence in our D this year.  We missed Edmunds the few times he was out and we just don't have an adequate replacement, let alone an upgrade. It's looking like our D will take a step backwards this year. The front office screwed up.

 

Frazier isn't around... this is now fully McD's D... this season is on him. I'd wait and see as to how our defensive schemes and game plans change...

[frostbitmic]

13 hours ago, Chaos said:

How do teams gain extra possessions? 

Score quickly, create turnovers and recovering onside kicks..

[Chaos]

21 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Score quickly, create turnovers and recovering onside kicks..

Only onside kicks actually create an exta possession. Otherwise possessions simply alternate.  Each drive has four ways to end, a score, turnovers, turnvover on downs, or a punt. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

Is it really crazy to think a switch from nickel to more base 4-3 is in the cards based upon the current roster? I know it's not a McDermott mainstay, but could a change in philosophy happen under the circumstances?

 

Is it even possible that TJ could be traded in this case? I don't know how it would work with his contract. Is it even feasible?

[Mike in Horseheads]

Oh, I thought this was a baseball thread. Go O's!!!

[In Summary]

18 hours ago, Buffarukus said:

i said this as well. our team is in a division with pretty good run attacks and these small fast lbs dont seem like good stick your face in the line stack and shed players.

....thus the thought of what DTs you put in front of them matters.

[hondo in seattle]

We're so used to seeing the pairing of Milano and Edmunds that we're wondering who Edmunds' replacement is.  I'm not sure it's that simple.  I think there will be more variety this season.  

 

We might see more 4-3 without a true replacement for Edmunds.  I don't think 4-3 will become our base defense which will remain 4-2 but I do wonder if we see it more often.  

 

We also might see a rotation of bodies.  Maybe Klein in on first and running downs.  Maybe Dodson or one of the other faster/coverage guys in on other downs.  

 

It'll be interesting for sure.  

[gobills404]

I said it another thread, but whoever the starter ends up being will have one of the easiest jobs of any MLB in the league. The defense will be just fine despite Beane’s bad moves at LB.

[Buffarukus]

24 minutes ago, In Summary said:

....thus the thought of what DTs you put in front of them matters.

 

i agree. that is a major part. if our dts diminate then the smaller faster lbs is actually a good scheme. unfortunately after this year we have noone under contract. is oliver worth a huge contract? daquan still want to stay? phillips stay healthy a season. last year of the big boys and next is when the rookie lbs will have to step up. not a good combo for the future right now.

[strive_for_five_guy]

18 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

I can’t see the bills playing a lot of 3 MLBs.

 

That would mean you’re playing more into your weakness (LB position) and taking off a good slot corner. (TJ)

Right, why would we play MORE 4-3, if our linebacker group is going to be weaker and we have guys like Taron, Siran and Rapp in the secondary?  Going more 4-3, you put two question marks on the field as opposed to one.

[BADOLBILZ]

14 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 
Yeah its a calculated risk they are taking because they did not want to spend money on the position. There most certainly will be a step back at the position. How much that affects wins and loses remains to be seen. I suppose the are banking on everyone around the positions improving. The story was always that Tremaine affected the game in ways we couldn’t see. We will find out if that is true or not pretty quickly. 
 

If I’m the Bills, I am calling the Chargers to see what it would take to get Kenneth Murray. They just rejected his 5th year option and took his replacement in Daiyan Henley. I think Murray would excel in this system. Maybe it costs a 5th? Maybe a guy like Boogie or AJ fit better as 5 techs in their D? Free agency is pretty dry there, so maybe a trade like this could be had. 

 

 

I don't think it would even cost a 5th for Murray.   He's really fallen out of favor in LA.   That was one of those head scratcher 1st round picks that had that 1990's Buffalo Bills draft feel that used to turn me off to watching John Butler draft.  And  I agree that he'd be a fine option for Buffalo for low compensation.   His cap hit is $1.7M so he's right in Beane's alley price-wise.   But as you mentioned earlier.......Spector was intriguing in his limited preseason opportunity.   Guy seems instinctive for the position. 

[Starr Almighty]

I'm not sure what any of you are talking about, but I'm a Mets fan and I'm worried about the starting rotation.

 

I find it strange that nobody is talking baseball in an MLB thread 🤷🏻‍♂️

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Right, why would we play MORE 4-3, if our linebacker group is going to be weaker and we have guys like Taron, Siran and Rapp in the secondary?  Going more 4-3, you put two question marks on the field as opposed to one.

 

I partially agree.  The best players should be on the field, and our best 11 only includes one LB. 

 

But that doesn't mean we run a 4-1-6.  Running a 4-3-4 gives us 3 LBs close to the line of scrimmage to make tackles.  In other words, it gives the offense one more second-level guy they need to successfully block on running plays (compared to our base 4-2).  

 

I've wondered about this, too:  since Rapp is reportedly a solid tackler, will we ever have him in the game with both Poyer and Hyde as some kind of safety/LB hybrid?  

 

McD doesn't have an Edmunds-type guy to replace Edmunds.  But he does have some tools - guys with interesting skill sets.  You hate for your D to be predictable, and I think McD has the flexibility to mix it up a bit.  

[strive_for_five_guy]

48 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I partially agree.  The best players should be on the field, and our best 11 only includes one LB. 

 

But that doesn't mean we run a 4-1-6.  Running a 4-3-4 gives us 3 LBs close to the line of scrimmage to make tackles.  In other words, it gives the offense one more second-level guy they need to successfully block on running plays (compared to our base 4-2).  

 

I've wondered about this, too:  since Rapp is reportedly a solid tackler, will we ever have him in the game with both Poyer and Hyde as some kind of safety/LB hybrid?  

 

McD doesn't have an Edmunds-type guy to replace Edmunds.  But he does have some tools - guys with interesting skill sets.  You hate for your D to be predictable, and I think McD has the flexibility to mix it up a bit.  

I’m intrigued by what his addition will. mean for this defense too.  For instance, is he going to fill a pass coverage role that Tremaine was responsible for?

[MrEpsYtown]

2 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

I’m intrigued by what his addition will. mean for this defense too.  For instance, is he going to fill a pass coverage role that Tremaine was responsible for?

Rapp played a lot of stack nickel backer in LA. That’s our base defense. So he has done it before. I think maybe he becomes that guy in super obvious pass situations, but not in base. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

On 4/29/2023 at 4:19 PM, harmonkillebrew said:

Anyone have any idea WTF we're doing??

 

Options:

- Edmunds was such a bad fit that we decided we didn't need to replace him?

- We're going to play more base 3 LB, with no real "MLB"

- we're moving to a 3-4 and Daquan Jones will play NT

- We will sign a FA MLB (who's left... Myles Jack?)

- Klein will be a stop-gap at MLB until Dorian Williams can learn the defense and gain 15 lbs

- others?

 

 

I'm having a hard time understanding our small LB drafting strategy. 

 

 

 

Why does everyone keep saying he's too small to play ILB? He is the modern day size of most LB, Athletic and smallish.... he's 6'1" 228 lbs., Here are some top ILB sizes... 49ers- Fred Warner 6'3" 229 lbs, many here wanted Lavonte David, he's 6'1" 234 lbs, Bobby Wagner 6'0" 242, Shaquille Leonard 6'2" 234, RoQuan Smith , 6'1" 236 lbs, Eric Kendricks 6'0" 232 lbs. I can go on and on and he fits the mold plus I'd say he's as athletic as alot of those guys also, you can see it just watch a few full Tulane games and he's very noticeably athletic bursting to wherever the ball is. 

[Drew21PA]

I think it was 2020 or 2021 when AJ Klein stepped in for about 4-5 games?

 

I actually hated it the first week against the chiefs I think it was - then he just got better and better in the system 

 

ended up with like 4 sacks and 2 picks or something like that.

 

was really forming into a monster - I think he plays with that edge you need with Milano and we will be above average 

My apologies

 

The year was in fact 2020

had a career year with an increased role

 

5 sacks

2 forced fumbles not picks my bad

Klein/Milano 2023 is my vote

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I think at one time when half the board hated Edmunds I said it’ll probably take more than one player to replace him. 
 

Well here we are. It’s going to be more than one player replacing him. We’ll see more personnel matching next year.

[Drew21PA]

Everyone saying edmunds is going to be hard to replace has forgetten already just how average he was 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Edmunds is still young but he was pushed around a lot and usually filled the wrong gap. He was great in coverage but you could find a 230 lb hybrid type player to fill his place. Edmunds has zero pass rush moves and was horrible at rushing the passer. I’m glad we didn’t pay him that contract.

[DJB]

15 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Edmunds is still young but he was pushed around a lot and usually filled the wrong gap. He was great in coverage but you could find a 230 lb hybrid type player to fill his place. Edmunds has zero pass rush moves and was horrible at rushing the passer. I’m glad we didn’t pay him that contract.

Pretty sure Edmunds is only 19 and getting younger 

[WhoTom]

18 minutes ago, DJB said:

Pretty sure Edmunds is only 19 and getting younger 

 

Every time someone makes a joke about Edmunds' age:

• the Pats* get a compensatory draft pick;
• Brady unretires;
• someone posts the meme of a fat guy eating a cheeseburger.

 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Any thoughts on picking up Kyle Van Noy? I know that anyone at this point has some warts but I would love to be a bit more secure than Klein. 

[Motorin']

50 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Edmunds is still young but he was pushed around a lot and usually filled the wrong gap. He was great in coverage but you could find a 230 lb hybrid type player to fill his place. Edmunds has zero pass rush moves and was horrible at rushing the passer. I’m glad we didn’t pay him that contract.

 

Edmunds was great in zone coverage against average qb's and average offenses. 

 

Elite qb's in elite scheme knew how to abuse him. Edmunds wasn't particularly great at applying matching concepts or reading routes. He took a big radius over the middle away, but Mahomes and Burrow  knew how to make manipulate him left and right to get their guys wide open.

 

Here's hoping for a coverage LB that reads route concepts better than Tremaine.

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

11 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Edmunds was great in zone coverage against average qb's and average offenses. 

 

Elite qb's in elite scheme knew how to abuse him. Edmunds wasn't particularly great at applying matching concepts or reading routes. He took a big radius over the middle away, but Mahomes and Burrow  knew how to make manipulate him left and right to get their guys wide open.

 

Here's hoping for a coverage LB that reads route concepts better than Tremaine.

 

 

It's not as if they aren't abusing... literally everyone.  The key to stopping both lies in pass rushing, not who you start at middle linebacker. 

 

Dodson, Williams, Bernard, Klein, Spector - Let the best man win the majority of the snaps.  There's a lot of talent and experience among that group, and i'd probably have 3 of them taking Mike snaps during camp/preseason.  Williams or bernard is likely the primary milano backup.  

 

My guess is Bernard ends up with majority of snaps, but Klein mixes in on early downs some.  

Edited May 1, 2023 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[TPS]

On 4/29/2023 at 5:40 PM, Solomon Grundy said:

Here I clicked the link thinking @harmonkillebrewwas mad at the Bills draft and wanted to talk Major League Baseball 😎

I ignored it (until now) wondering how a thread on baseball was still here?

😂