How did the Patriots maintain a top team for 17 years?

[97bills]

Brady and B.B got the best out of guys , you remember the saying the patriot way. Now we get to watch Mahomes go to the Super Bowl every year. Because McDermott doesn’t stack up well against the other teams that have OC as coaches. All I keep hearing on nfl network is how KC got all that help out of there rookies. We can’t even get ours on the field lol. I guarantee you cooks and Shakir would’ve shown out. With KC!!!!

[HugeHeffner11]

Very Simple!!! The BEST quarterback and HEAD COACH ever in the history of the NFL!  They very best and no one else was even CLOSE!  No team will ever dominate the league for 20 years in a row.  That is unheard of and impossible to repeat.

[TheWeatherMan]

28 minutes ago, HugeHeffner11 said:

Very Simple!!! The BEST quarterback and HEAD COACH ever in the history of the NFL!  They very best and no one else was even CLOSE!  No team will ever dominate the league for 20 years in a row.  That is unheard of and impossible to repeat.

They had the best QB (not coach) in the history of the NFL taking a 50% pay cut to keep his team together (long term continuity/chemistry is huge).  Take this and couple it with exploiting rules / cheating to gain a competitive advantage is why this dynasty existed.  

[GunnerBill]

They had the best QB and best HC in football, together, at the same time. 

 

And they had a weak division that meant they could experiment early in the year and try stuff out safe in the knowledge the division was in the bag. That is why they were always able to peak late.

[Nihilarian]

All the other AFC East teams were beset by fools at ownership, GM, and head coaches for all those years.

 

Now, it's just weird that the Jets and Dolphins finally found somewhat decent GMs, and HCs and could be competing for that AFC East title this year. 
 

 

I suppose we have to thank the Jet's ownership and Dolphin's ownership for some stupid moves recently. Like the Miami owner wanting Tua over Justin Herbert!

Also, the stupidity of the Jets GM for going after a QB who only played well in one season.

Both the Dolphins and Jet's GMs seem to have a handle on drafting the right players and making the right trades. Miami for Tyreek Hill and Jalen Ramsey. yowie! Imagine Herbert throwing to Hill. 

 

Anyway, gonna be tougher for Buffalo to win the AFC East going forward unless Buffalo upgrades that offensive line, and run game this year. JMO 

[Xwnyer]

You forgot to add cheating multiple times, radio feeds to opposing teams qb cutting out, their qb feed staying on……

[boyst]

3 hours ago, HugeHeffner11 said:

Very Simple!!! The BEST quarterback and HEAD COACH ever in the history of the NFL!  They very best and no one else was even CLOSE!  No team will ever dominate the league for 20 years in a row.  That is unheard of and impossible to repeat.

 

2 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

They had the best QB (not coach) in the history of the NFL taking a 50% pay cut to keep his team together (long term continuity/chemistry is huge).  Take this and couple it with exploiting rules / cheating to gain a competitive advantage is why this dynasty existed.  

as he said

 

he didn't get the pay cut because the actual money to him came for his TB12 thighmaster gimmick where he did his sports therapy crap contracted to the team. i'm surprised more players have not tried to go this route.

 

tom brady was a crocked dirty player and is the same as a person. some can call that shrewd but he ruined the fun of the game acting like the perfect example of a entitled millennial beach. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Brady taking less is so overblown. He was always paid in the top three or four QBs he was just never the top paid guy. Ans that was mainly because he had contemporaries like Manning and Breese who were of near equal HOF status.  Yes that saved them a few dollars in cap money but not really that much. 

Bills will soon be no different.  Allen is already below Mahommes and within two years Herbert and Burrow will both be making more. 

[filthymcnasty08]

U mean besides the cheating?

 

 

[Big Turk]

Their QB took way less money than he could have gotten allowing them to keep other pieces.

 

Belichick was a master at letting guys go a year too early rather than a year too late. Aging vets got replaced right around the time they fell off a cliff most times.

 

Tom Brady covered up for a ton of missteps in the draft.

[Low Positive]

They weren’t really a dominant team for 17 years. They had 2 waves at the start and towards the end of the Brady years with the Randy Moss blip in the middle. There were roster reset years, it just didn’t seem like it because they made the playoffs due to a weak division and Tom Brady. 

[JimmyNoodles]

They were practically gifted 6 wins a year because the division was so bad. Refs and cheating carried them too. 

[Low Positive]

The question really should be “how in the heck were the Bills, Jets and Dolphins that bad for that long?” All of those teams got high draft picks year after year and just kept whiffing. 

[Gregg]

I wish Bill was the Bills HC. Nine Super Bowl appearances with six Championship wins with an elite level franchise QB. He would definitely bring a Lombardi to Buffalo with Allen.

[Ga boy]

On 2/10/2023 at 9:43 AM, Big Turk said:

75% of it was Tom Brady covering up for all the deficiencies on the roster. Don't get me wrong, they had good players and good teams, but it wasn't often you looked at their roster and thought "Damn, this is the most talented roster in the NFL!"

Yes and we got the guy to do the same.  If JA17 learns to throw in 1.5 secs, we will win a few pretty trophies 🏆 

[Don Otreply]

   A combination of a really weak AFCE, offensive and defensive schemes that actually worked, the QB to implement it, and two decades of constant cheating that was so prevalent that they got caught doing so every four and a half years on average, the sad part is that so many fans worship a team that constantly cheated during that period, and the league celebrated them even though they knew they were cheating, did essentially nothing to stop it. 

[McBean]

Built yearly around Tom Brady.

[Boatdrinks]

Most NFL games are close. Their QB - as much as I hate to admit it - almost never made mistakes. That’s the biggest factor imo. 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

They had the best QB and best HC in football, together, at the same time. 

 

And they had a weak division that meant they could experiment early in the year and try stuff out safe in the knowledge the division was in the bag. That is why they were always able to peak late.

Not quite sure why anyone would disagree with this
 

The patriots were way out in front of every other team in the AFC East, and it wasn’t close

 

When you’re able to come out of your division every year, you’re gonna have a good record every year. Kind of like with the bills are doing right now.

[May Day 10]

It was a perfect storm.  Good coach and good QB.  Good QB was willing to commit his entire being to winning.  Coach paid attention to every single detail and every single opportunity to gain an advantage.  Even if that entered into gray areas of rules.  Stayed ahead of the curve at certain points, like when they had Gronk and Hernandez as dual tight ends which was a nightmare. 

 

The Division had the three stooges residing in it for most of the entire run.  The Jets had a small run with Rex.  The Division was of no concern for New England and offered little resistance.

 

Players willing to sign there for less than full market value to win

 

Expert level ability to allow players to leave, not paying them, and replacing them with cheaper options who rarely missed a beat.  Maximized the comp picks as well as trading down in the draft for quantity of picks.  

 

Luck.  Honestly, I have never seen a franchise get so lucky at various times in crunch time.  Other teams would somehow become possessed and either make terrible decisions or physical failures.  You also have to get lucky to some degree in order to get to a Super Bowl, let alone win it.  To do it on a regular gait is incredible.

[Bobby Hooks]

It’s pretty simple. Players were always willing to go there for dirt cheap contracts to try and win a Super Bowl with Brady. 
 

Those days are well past. And I couldn’t be happier about it. 

[Chicken Boo]

It's no 1 thing.  Brady doesn't have 4 of his rings if not for the leg of Vinatieri and a great defensive play by Malcolm Butler.  

 

That's not to say Brady didn't play his part.  Of course he did, but the Pats were a well oiled machine from the top down and they adapted, every season, to the personnel they fielded.  

 

That's excellent coaching.  It's far from just Brady.  

[2003Contenders]

First, it starts at the top with Kraft giving BB unwavering and total control of the team -- and mostly staying out of his way to do what he needed to do. Anyone coming to the Patriots as a coach or player knew this going in -- and it makes a big difference not only from a continuity perspective but also from an accountability perspective when everyone knows who is in charge.

 

Then it is about a system that everyone on the team MUST buy into -- or be shown the door. Remember, for the introductions for their first Super Bowl they were simply introduced as "the team" refusing to be introduced individually.

 

And, while player-for-player they may not have had many superstars, they had hard-nosed, intelligent and versatile guys who were willing to do whatever it took to win -- even if the game plan called for different personnel game-in and game-out. In a way, this concept and approach reminds me a lot of Shula's 70's era Dolphins. They had that no-name defense loaded with lunch-pale guys who knew their role and limited their mistakes.

 

And then, of course, there was Brady who elevated the play of his supporting cast, was clutch in big games, and was obsessed with winning.

[bigduke6]

cheating?  bending the rules until they nearly break?  underpaying Tom Brady?  funneling money into Tom's charity to make up the difference?  

 

i cant really explain how they managed to stay so good for so long tbh.  Belicheat has never drafted particularly well.  they bought a few decent free agents over the years but nobody world breaking.  mbe it was just the system with a HoF QB,  mbe it was more.

 

before a late round QB who was terrible in college became the best ever,  Belicheck was a middling coach who even the Browns thought was garbage.   suddenly a light bulb turned on somewhere for Bill.  mbe he just got lucky.    seems like hes back to being a middling coach now.

Edited March 22, 2023 by bigduke6

[Yantha]

Brady and a top head coach.

 

amazing cap management and player evaluations for free agency.

 

amazing management of acquisitions of extra draft picks.  I always wondered how they always seemed to have MORE picks than the average team….
 

cheating

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Yantha

[Nextmanup]

On 2/6/2023 at 11:04 AM, Gregg said:

Brady the GOAT, Belichick the GOAT. Built a solid roster around #12. The Bills, Dolphins, Jets = Three stooges. Division was a joke as NE would usually have it clinched by late Oct/ early Nov. Because of it they usually had the #1 or #2 seed so they rarely had to play on WC weekend.

It's really not that complicated!

 

 

[PBF81]

On 2/6/2023 at 11:04 AM, Gregg said:

Brady the GOAT, Belichick the GOAT. Built a solid roster around #12. The Bills, Dolphins, Jets = Three stooges. Division was a joke as NE would usually have it clinched by late Oct/ early Nov. Because of it they usually had the #1 or #2 seed so they rarely had to play on WC weekend.

 

Right there to a T, the top-2 reasons.  That cannot possibly be understated.  The lack of divisional beating perennially that other teams were not subjected to is huge. 

 

The number of different starting QBs that went thru Buffalo, NY, and Miami during that stretch were 29 Buffalo (9), Miami (11), and the Jets (9).  Fitzpatrick played for all three teams, he counts three times therefore.  

 

Otherwise, the three had 20 different total coaches among them during Brady's tenure.  The Jets are the only team that went to the playoffs with any regularity.  Miami made it three times but lost in the WC round every time.  We only went in '17 and '19, also losing both times in the WC round.  

 

We're seeing what Belichick would have been without Brady right now.  He's employing the same team-building strategy.  It's still on his high end for career coaching w/o Brady, and he's got all that experience from the Brady years too.  

 

I don't give him the credit that others do.   Had Mo Lewis not knocked Bledsoe into the Twilight Zone, Belichick would have likely continued to ride Bledsoe, who was already 5-13 with him at the time, into the next team as a DC probably.  

 

For that reason I hate Mo Lewis.  

 

 

[WideNine]

Top tier OL coach that could get the most out of middling OL talent - since retired.

 

Which kept an efficient GOAT Brady upright with enough time to find a few above average targets, Gronk, Welker, Edelman, Brown...

 

Solid drafting on defense with a pretty good defensive mind in Belichick.

 

And...cheating 😁

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by WideNine

[bobobonators]

On 2/6/2023 at 11:04 AM, Gregg said:

Brady the GOAT, Belichick the GOAT. Built a solid roster around #12. The Bills, Dolphins, Jets = Three stooges. Division was a joke as NE would usually have it clinched by late Oct/ early Nov. Because of it they usually had the #1 or #2 seed so they rarely had to play on WC weekend.

Also helped that the Jets, Bills and Fins were all an absolute joke for 10+yrs. They were already 6-0 in August 

[ganesh]

58 minutes ago, Yantha said:

Brady and a top head coach.

 

amazing cap management and player evaluations for free agency.

 

amazing management of acquisitions of extra draft picks.  I always wondered how they always seemed to have MORE picks than the average team….
 

cheating

 

 

An important point to note also is that the rest of the AFC East sucked during that 17 year period (except for the 2 years of Rex Ryan Jets).   Brady and the Patriots won the AFC East with ease setting themselves up with good seeding and playing in Foxboro.   These are small things but they have a big impact. 

 

When the AFC East teams actually competed, they beat up on Brady and the Patriots!

[T master]

On 2/6/2023 at 10:00 AM, Success said:

I thought it might be interesting to put our loathing aside and really analyze how they pulled it off.  What they did is what I want the Bills to do - dominate for many years, and as long as they have Allen at QB.

 

They didn't have the ebb & flow that a team normally has, even w/ a top QB.  Their window was wide open for most of those 17 years. They made 9 SB's, and probably should have made 1-2 more.  My own thoughts:

 

1) Obviously, Brady took less pay so the team could afford better players.  I still don't see that being as impactful as it's made out to be - he was still paid a lot.

2) Aging vet stars took pay cuts just to play w/ Brady. Will we see that w/ Allen?

3) The Patriots made very few investments in bigtime skill players.  Moss was the exception, not the rule.

4) One of the hallmarks of Belichick was letting players walk before they started to decline.  Almost exactly what we're looking at w/ Poyer.

5) Their biggest priority, year after year, was making sure the O-line was strong.  That's just what you do when you have a top QB.

 

Still, the run is somewhat mystifying.  Belichick was not a great drafter, which is usually needed once a QB gets past the rookie contract.  Superior coaching clearly played a part. I think BB got the best out of his players (which is something we aren't doing right now - we see players leave the Bills and perform better than they did here).

 

Thoughts?

 

Some of the things they did to continue getting players while keeping their cap in line was to get rid of players they knew would require huge contracts if they kept them around & would sign those elite players before they were at the end of their rookie contracts . Between that FA & having Brady make average players look great there you have it .

 

If Beane would do what they did with the likes of Edmunds & Oliver they could have had another lets say 3 draft picks 2 last year if they would have traded Edmunds because they basically knew he wasn't going to be here because of the money he would demand & now Oliver the same thing .

 

If last year they would have put Oliver up for a trade they could have had at least 1 more draft pick & not been on the hook for his 5th year contract totally guaranteed but they basically screwed themselves in some ways by giving him his 5th yr & won't get anything in return for what they have invested in him .

 

We know loyalty to the team that drafted them is no longer a part of the equation it's all about the money which is cool so why should the team be loyal to keeping them when it's not reciprocated it's been proven to be the way things are now in the NFL so the teams future when it comes to keeping the cap in line should be a huge consideration but isn't for the players it's all about them & their future which is cool .

[Einstein]

12 minutes ago, ganesh said:

An important point to note also is that the rest of the AFC East sucked during that 17 year period (except for the 2 years of Rex Ryan Jets).   Brady and the Patriots won the AFC East with ease setting themselves up with good seeding and playing in Foxboro.   These are small things but they have a big impact. 

 

When the AFC East teams actually competed, they beat up on Brady and the Patriots!

 

Patriots had a lower winning % against the AFC than they did against the rest of the NFL.

[dma0034]

I mean, I'll put it in order:

 

1. Goat at QB

2. Possible Goat at Coach

3. Weak division. They would often go 5-1 or 6-0 in the division. This would allow them to get a first round bye a lot because if you go 5-1 on the division and 7-3 or 6-4 you have a good chance at atleast the 2 seed... which was a bye at the time

4. Teams played the Patriots scared which often resulted in exceptional dumb: play calling and gafts

5. Cheating

6. Only 1 high level QB during their time (Manning) unless you want to count Roethlisberger. Imagine if Allen was in the NFC... he'd be the best and only Hurts would be in the discussion. In the AFC you can easily make a case for Mahomes and Burrows and then there are some good QBs behind the big 3 in the AFC. Mahomes and Burrows couldn't beat the Bills and the other team in back to back years

[mannc]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

An important point to note also is that the rest of the AFC East sucked during that 17 year period (except for the 2 years of Rex Ryan Jets).   Brady and the Patriots won the AFC East with ease setting themselves up with good seeding and playing in Foxboro.   These are small things but they have a big impact. 

 

When the AFC East teams actually competed, they beat up on Brady and the Patriots!

There is no question that the rest of the AFC was pretty hapless over that span, but it's also possible that the rest of the AFC East was bad because of the Patriots...the Jets, Bills and Dolphins were going into every season with two losses on their schedule...they were constantly trying to build their teams to beat Brady and the Pats instead of just building a winning team...the Pats were in their heads.       

[BBFL]

3 hours ago, bigduke6 said:

cheating?  bending the rules until they nearly break?  underpaying Tom Brady?  funneling money into Tom's charity to make up the difference?  

 

i cant really explain how they managed to stay so good for so long tbh.  Belicheat has never drafted particularly well.  they bought a few decent free agents over the years but nobody world breaking.  mbe it was just the system with a HoF QB,  mbe it was more.

 

before a late round QB who was terrible in college became the best ever,  Belicheck was a middling coach who even the Browns thought was garbage.   suddenly a light bulb turned on somewhere for Bill.  mbe he just got lucky.    seems like hes back to being a middling coach now.

Totally disagree on the drafting part… you are WAY off. Every year after Brady in 2000 that team drafted starters or major contributors to the Patriots somewhere in the draft until Brady’s departure. The only exceptions were their ‘06, ‘07 & ‘08 classes… ‘07 being the worst. Those drafts, respectively, still netted them; Gostkowski, Brandon Merriweather, Matt Slater and Jerod Mayo. All of which had significant contributions to the organization. WR may be the only complete flop at a position they had during that period in terms of drafting… Though one is a HOF Special Teamer and the other 2 (Edelman and Malcom Mitchell) are the sole reason they completed the largest comeback in Super Bowl History. 
 

You’re right in essence however… It was the system with a HOF QB. And more. They cheated multiple times to gain a competitive edge. That had to have made the difference here or there. The drafting though? The drafting was top notch for nearly 20 years. Multiple lengthy contributors virtually every year. 

Playing garbage opponents 6 times a year for decades was the icing on the cake.

[Just in Atlanta]

Kelly Holcomb

Trent Edwards

JP Losman

Kyle Orton

EJ Manuel

Tyrod Taylor

Chad Pennington

Kellen Clemons

Mark Sanchez

Geno Smith

Jay Fiedler

Chad Pennington

Gus Ferotte

Joey Harrington

AJ Feely

 

and etc.

 

vs

 

Tom Brady

[Just in Atlanta]

...

I count 57 starting quarterbacks 🤮 for the other three AFCE teams from 2001 to 2019. 

 

... And 25 head coaches - 9 for the Bills, 10 for the Dolphins, 6 for the Jets.

 

With the exception of the one year he was injured, it's been all Tom Brady for the Patriots. 

 

... And Belichick has been the lone head coach for 22 years. 

This continuity is a big part of the success. It's both a cause and an effect.

[papazoid]

tuck rule

falsified injury reports

spygate(2007)

peds gate (2007)

deflategate(2015)

snowplowgate (1982)

leapergate(1961)

walkthroughgate(2002)

formationgate(2015) vs ravens

headsetgate malfunction to opponents

scraps gate Sign an opponent's recently-cut player to your practice squad to get intel 

stolen playsheets

playclock loophole 

phony do your job video crew

salary cap circumvention

bugged opponents lockerroom

fire alarms pulled in wee hours of visiting hotels

illegal use of injured reserve

beli-cheat - coined by don shula

 

[Jay_Fixit]

7 hours ago, Bobby Hooks said:

It’s pretty simple. Players were always willing to go there for dirt cheap contracts to try and win a Super Bowl with Brady. 
 

Those days are well past. And I couldn’t be happier about it. 

Hey captain serious!

 

I was gonna say they taped practices but your answer was much more plausible LMFORFALOLOK

[Charles Romes]

Brady was so good he could get away with garbage at receiver in his prime. You also could corners on the oline since he got rid of the ball so quick. And, he always took less himself.  He created massive savings throughout the office with highest production. Allen has been good enough to mask flaws through the offense and win the division.  But that’s it so far.