The "non-interception" by Edmunds

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

By default, that back judge should have called it a pick so that it would automatically activate a review on a turnover.

 

Yeah but the problem with doing that as the default is then there'd have to be clear evidence to over turn it not being an Int which again wouldn't have happened.  The call was going to stand whatever was made. While it would have helped the Bills today, don't think that's a good path for the league to go down as the default tactic.

 

I do think it points out a weakness in the system that as you suggest rule it an Int as that would automatically activate a review.  If that's the only way it forces that, there's a problem with the system as exists today.

[KOKBILLS]

1 hour ago, ArtVandalay said:

McDermott has one of the worst challenge records in NFL history.  6 for 24 in his 6 seasons, as of a couple years ago only Lebeau and Reeves were worse. If you are scratching your head why we didn't challenge, that's why. 

 

Camera angle showed clear possession. Where Edmunds controlled the ball and Uzmah didn't have a single finger on it. He tried grabbing it after Edmunds fell to the ground. 

 

 

 

 

Good grief...That's an INT folks...

Edited November 7, 2022 by KOKBILLS

[SinceThe70s]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

By default, that back judge should have called it a pick so that it would automatically activate a review on a turnover.

 

I agree with your other post that it wasn't likely to get overturned. Disagree that refs should make a call based on whether it would make the play reviewable. They should call it as they see it, nothing more, nothing less. They'll make mistakes, replay should remedy the bad ones, fans should learn to live with the marginal ones and move on IMO. 

[JerseyBills]

In person it sure looked like an int. I was baffled they didn't challenge 

[Nextmanup]

I wouldn't criticize the decision not to challenge, because a play of that nature is NOT going to be reversed, whatever the outcome actually was as originally called.

 

One of my complaints about McDermott's TERRIBLE challenge history is that he has often foolishly challenged the type of stuff that isn't going to be reversed. 

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

Another missed challenge by McDermott. The WR clearly didn't have any possession going to the ground.

[US Egg]

The NFL is diluting their product with over officiating.

 

Yeah, the eye in the sky rights wrongs by the refs, but it’s reaching a point where no play can be simply enjoyed until after scanning the field for flags or waiting/wondering about play reviews, which drag out the suspense of individual plays in the game too often.

 

This isn’t benefiting watching the NFL like they think.

Edited November 7, 2022 by I am the egg man

[mrags]

Maybe if Edmunds was any good he would have came down with it and it wouldn’t have been contested. Must be nice to have a defensive leader making plays. We wouldn’t know. 

[Ralonzo]

51 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Another missed challenge by McDermott. The WR clearly didn't have any possession going to the ground.

 

McD challenged the ruled interception by Johnson of the Rams ripping the ball away on the ground from Kroft, and lost that challenge. It changed the complexion of that game too. Basically refs just suck.

[pennstate10]

I think it was an INT, and it was clear enough that it would have been overturned on replay. 
 

Problem was the jets ran a play too quickly for McD to be able to make a decision and throw the challenge flag. 
 

But you don’t want to waste a timeout if you’re wrong. 
 

Here is the solution. Have a player close to the ball come up lame, rolling in the ground in pain. That way you get your injury timeout and more time to decide on challenge. 

[DrPJax]

3 hours ago, Simon said:

That was one of those plays where the original call on the field was going to stand regardless of what that call was.

I think you’re right.  They would have just said not enough to clearly overturn the call on the field. I also think Mcd realized it was a close game and he cherishes his timeouts for use late. Hard to argue as it was important that he had all 3 TO’s to use to allow us to hold them  them to a Fg at the end with about 1:43 left.    So , while I agree Edmunds looked like he had it , I really doubt the refs reverse that call. 
 

In the end we had enough time to drive to tie it or even win so Mcds strategy is hard to argue with. Too bad the whole second half, like the prior week, players were not executing well on O or D!  I mean we did blow a 14-3 lead ( should.at worst have been 17 -10 at halftime ), gave up a 96 yard drive ending in a go ahead fg as they ran over us and burned the clock.  Our O had no rhythm and our coordinators look like they are not adjusting as well now as teams now know our tendencies better at this point in the season.  That said , as I watch the KC game , your playmakers and QB have to make plays and ours failed in the last two second halves.  Look at KC’s d pressure the Titan qb and walk away with a win , while our D rarely pressured  Wilson in the deciding half.  Another test coming next week,

; big challenge to see if we can turn the sloppy play around.and see if Josh can avoid the uncharacteristic bad turnovers !  This o has hit a stagnant phase at mid season and I hope Dorsey has some solutions.  😊
 

 

 

[Big C]

4 hours ago, stevestojan said:

Of all the times McD has thrown questionable red flags, I can’t believe our coaches in the booth didn’t immediately tell him to toss it. 
 

That scrum happened fully after Edmunds had the ball and was down by contact. 

Trying to shave some $ off the new contract.

[Dr.Sack]

Would have hurt to challenge this. It also wouldn’t have hurt brining in a 3rd  LB or 5th DL on the Jets GWD.

[Scott7975]

It was an interception.  Probably something they dont overturn though.

[Gunsgoodtime]

10 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

I'm not very tech savvy, but there was a replay angle which clearly showed that Edmunds possessed the ball while down.  

When I originally saw the play I was like meh,  who knows, after that replay angle I could clearly see Edmunds with the ball all the way to the ground

[PaoloBillsFanFromItaly]

Any case the rule is not fair.

If possession is 50% receiver and 50% defender the pass should be ruled incomplete.

[Spiderweb]

12 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

I'm not very tech savvy, but there was a replay angle which clearly showed that Edmunds possessed the ball while down.  

Sure was. He had both hands securely on the ball and the Jets guy has only one reaching in when they went down. Terrible call.

 

[Luka]

Edmunds possessed the ball as he went to the ground. More damning was the fact that the tight end had his arm WRAPPED AROUND EDMUNDS. Unless the man has 3 arms, not sure how you can possess the ball and make a tackle... 

[clearwater cadet]

McDermott have plenty of talent on this time , but he continues to by overrated as a coach.

[Nuncha]

15 hours ago, stevestojan said:

Of all the times McD has thrown questionable red flags, I can’t believe our coaches in the booth didn’t immediately tell him to toss it. 
 

That scrum happened fully after Edmunds had the ball and was down by contact. 

McD must be relying on some blind guy to watch replays.  He isn't challenging plays he should be and when he throws the red flag it is usually obvious the call is not going to be changed in our favor.

[Not at the table Karlos]

12 hours ago, mrags said:

Maybe if Edmunds was any good he would have came down with it and it wouldn’t have been contested. Must be nice to have a defensive leader making plays. We wouldn’t know. 

He did come down with it and it wasn't contested until they started fighting on the ground. By the rules he should have been down by contact. Just because the refs said it was contested doesn't make it true. 

[mrags]

3 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

He did come down with it and it wasn't contested until they started fighting on the ground. By the rules he should have been down by contact. Just because the refs said it was contested doesn't make it true. 

So. just like in half of his plays when he us outmuscled by undersized RBs and WRs and blocked out half the time. Got it. 

[Motorin']

20 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

McDermott has one of the worst challenge records in NFL history.  6 for 24 in his 6 seasons, as of a couple years ago only Lebeau and Reeves were worse. If you are scratching your head why we didn't challenge, that's why. 

 

Camera angle showed clear possession. Where Edmunds controlled the ball and Uzmah didn't have a single finger on it. He tried grabbing it after Edmunds fell to the ground. 

 

 

 

 

It was absolutely clear he was the only one with possession as they fell to the ground, if you go frame by frame in slow motion. There was no "simultaneous" catch. 

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

6 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

It was absolutely clear he was the only one with possession as they fell to the ground, if you go frame by frame in slow motion. There was no "simultaneous" catch. 

 

 

 

You can't take the ball from a player on the ground.  Once he's touched he's down.  

 

While we still stopped them on that drive, that would have given buffalo the ball around mid-field.  

[Bermuda Triangle]

14 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

You can't take the ball from a player on the ground.  Once he's touched he's down.  

 

While we still stopped them on that drive, that would have given buffalo the ball around mid-field.  

the next play after the "non-INT", the Jets hurried to the line on 3rd down and ran a play, which did not result in a first down.  They then ran a successful fake punt on 4th down.  Drive ended with the Miller strip sack, but Allen returned the favor with an INT deep in Bills territory 2 plays later.

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

the next play after the "non-INT", the Jets hurried to the line on 3rd down and ran a play, which did not result in a first down.  They then ran a successful fake punt on 4th down.  Drive ended with the Miller strip sack, but Allen returned the favor with an INT deep in Bills territory 2 plays later.

It was an 8 minute drive and sucked the air out of the Bills and their offense.  

 

The game is 100% different if the right call was made (int) @ 13:38.  The Bills touched the ball for the first time at 6:21....  Lost 7 minutes and 35 yards.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

It was an 8 minute drive and sucked the air out of the Bills and their offense.  

 

The game is 100% different if the right call was made (int) @ 13:38.  The Bills touched the ball for the first time at 6:21....  Lost 7 minutes and 35 yards.

 

Plus if Buffalo takes a greater lead there - the Jets might pass the ball more, or it changes how they approach their next series.  

[Livinginthepast]

This play should have been called an INT first by the officials and the Jets should have been the ones challenging to show simultaneous possession.  Only in the NFL could you have the biggest money TV coverage with the most angles and still not have an angle. One question though, was this before or after the sky cam fell out of the sky?

[Pete]

Two of biggest Bills plays overturned by bull#### calls.  Refs ultimately gave that game to the Jets 

[Freddie's Dead]

On 11/6/2022 at 8:46 PM, ArtVandalay said:

McDermott has one of the worst challenge records in NFL history.  6 for 24 in his 6 seasons, as of a couple years ago only Lebeau and Reeves were worse. If you are scratching your head why we didn't challenge, that's why. 

 

Camera angle showed clear possession. Where Edmunds controlled the ball and Uzmah didn't have a single finger on it. He tried grabbing it after Edmunds fell to the ground. 

 

 

 

 

I was just re-watching the game for The Saffold Teport.  The final replay they had (unfortunately after the Jest ran a play), showed what this screen capture does.  Uzomah did not have a hand, a finger, his dick, or any of his body parts on the ball when Edmunds comes down and is down by contact.  He clearly wrestled the ball away from Edmunds on the bottom of the pile.  The other Bills players should have helped him by pulling Uzomah out of there.  This play cost us the game.  Thanks refs, this was Rams redux.  

[Pete]

9 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

I was just re-watching the game for The Saffold Teport.  The final replay they had (unfortunately after the Jest ran a play), showed what this screen capture does.  Uzomah did not have a hand, a finger, his dick, or any of his body parts on the ball when Edmunds comes down and is down by contact.  He clearly wrestled the ball away from Edmunds on the bottom of the pile.  The other Bills players should have helped him by pulling Uzomah out of there.  This play cost us the game.  Thanks refs, this was Rams redux.  

that was clear to see in live time IMO.  Edwards clearly had the ball, and play should of been whistled dead, Bills ball.  FU NFL Clown Refs!

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

that was clear to see in live time IMO.  Edwards clearly had the ball, and play should of been whistled dead, Bills ball.  FU NFL Clown Refs!

And yes that changed the entire tenure of the game.  

 

But to me the non-hold on Dawkins the final two-minutes sealed it.

 

Two plays, both cost the Bills 35 yards field position and one 7 minute of game time. 

[Playoffs?]

10 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

I was just re-watching the game for The Saffold Teport.  The final replay they had (unfortunately after the Jest ran a play), showed what this screen capture does.  Uzomah did not have a hand, a finger, his dick, or any of his body parts on the ball when Edmunds comes down and is down by contact.  He clearly wrestled the ball away from Edmunds on the bottom of the pile.  The other Bills players should have helped him by pulling Uzomah out of there.  This play cost us the game.  Thanks refs, this was Rams redux.  

For all of McD’s weird challenges, I was surprised he didn’t on this one.

[Pete]

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And yes that changed the entire tenure of the game.  

 

But to me the non-hold on Dawkins the final two-minutes sealed it.

 

Two plays, both cost the Bills 35 yards field position and one 7 minute of game time. 

The Bills losses the past couple years- there have been many horrible calls against the Bills that cost them the game.  I hate seeing bad calls on any team, but it seems to happen to the Bills more than any other team

[cba fan]

On 11/8/2022 at 6:16 PM, Livinginthepast said:

This play should have been called an INT first by the officials and the Jets should have been the ones challenging to show simultaneous possession.  Only in the NFL could you have the biggest money TV coverage with the most angles and still not have an angle. One question though, was this before or after the sky cam fell out of the sky?

before

 

15 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

I was just re-watching the game for The Saffold Teport.  The final replay they had (unfortunately after the Jest ran a play), showed what this screen capture does.  Uzomah did not have a hand, a finger, his dick, or any of his body parts on the ball when Edmunds comes down and is down by contact.  He clearly wrestled the ball away from Edmunds on the bottom of the pile.  The other Bills players should have helped him by pulling Uzomah out of there.  This play cost us the game.  Thanks refs, this was Rams redux.  

if you pull a player off a pile it is 15 yard penalty so players don't do it anymore. But doing so maybe would have gotten the Bills the ball. Risky move but in this case may have been smart situational strategy.

[PrimeTime101]

On 11/6/2022 at 7:29 PM, stevestojan said:

Of all the times McD has thrown questionable red flags, I can’t believe our coaches in the booth didn’t immediately tell him to toss it. 
 

That scrum happened fully after Edmunds had the ball and was down by contact. 

how many times did those same coaches in the booth scream "throw the red flag, throw the red flag"

 

I think its funny that when McD throws it and he is wrong its just on him. @stevestojan your point leads to another good point. how many times did the booth guys fail McD? Maybe McD lost faith in those guys?

[cba fan]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

that was clear to see in live time IMO.  Edwards clearly had the ball, and play should of been whistled dead, Bills ball.  FU NFL Clown Refs!

yep

 

replays clearly show Edmunds with ball and the TE having no hands in or on the ball. Only after they hit ground does Jets player apparently get the ball away from Edmunds who must skip hands day in the weight room. 

 

it was never ripped from Edmunds hands at any time when play was active. Edmunds had it and receiver then put hands in. Edmunds never let go. BS call. And no auto review happens on simultaneous catches, as there was no turnover called on the field. All turnovers are auto reviewed. Catches are not. They needed a challenge flag thrown outside 2 minutes.

[stevestojan]

55 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

how many times did those same coaches in the booth scream "throw the red flag, throw the red flag"

 

I think its funny that when McD throws it and he is wrong its just on him. @stevestojan your point leads to another good point. how many times did the booth guys fail McD? Maybe McD lost faith in those guys?

McD has the worst seat in the house to make any of those calls. It’s like going to a game and having first row seats - we all know you have to watch the Jumbotron to see what the hell is going on. 
 

The guys in the booth have multiple 8k screens in front of them. 
 

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, cba fan said:

if you pull a player off a pile it is 15 yard penalty so players don't do it anymore. But doing so maybe would have gotten the Bills the ball. Risky move but in this case may have been smart situational strategy.

 

Stop confusing me with facts!

[HOUSE]

Oh look, an Edmunds post.....

 

He is to young for interceptions