The "non-interception" by Edmunds

[Bermuda Triangle]

TV coverage showed an angle with Edmunds down on the ground, and clearly solely possessing the ball.  The reactions of the officials was bizarre - almost like they were peeling off players from a post-fumble scrum.

 

Why did the off-field replay officials not call in?  

 

https://operations.nfl.com/officiating/instant-replay/replay-assistance-rule/

[stevestojan]

Of all the times McD has thrown questionable red flags, I can’t believe our coaches in the booth didn’t immediately tell him to toss it. 
 

That scrum happened fully after Edmunds had the ball and was down by contact. 

[Simon]

That was one of those plays where the original call on the field was going to stand regardless of what that call was.

[Mango]

I thought it was likely an interception. Some people I was with thought it was unfathomable McD didn’t throw the flag.
 

I don’t know. Play was ruled jump ball and favor of the offense. The Jets got a play off in what seemed like 3 or 4 seconds from ruling to snap. CBS didn’t even show the third down play. 
 

Heads up play from the Jets on that one. Not a ton McD could have done there. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

That was one of those plays where the original call on the field was going to stand regardless of what that call was.

I'm not very tech savvy, but there was a replay angle which clearly showed that Edmunds possessed the ball while down.  

[Simon]

4 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

I'm not very tech savvy, but there was a replay angle which clearly showed that Edmunds possessed the ball while down.  

 

There was eventually, but do you really trust an official to see it the way you do and overturn his teammate's call?

Enough to risk losing one of your second half timeouts, which we ultimately needed to even have a chance to win?

 

That one was close enough that I write it off and move on to the next play.

[BuffaloRebound]

I’m not sure he had full control of the ball when he went to the ground.  The Jets Receiver clearly didn’t.   If anything, they could’ve ruled it incomplete.  To be honest, if he had full control, you could argue the Jets player wouldn’t have been able to wrestle control.  But since Edmunds has zero ball skills, I’m not surprised at all he didn’t come out of the pile with the ball.  

[EmotionallyUnstable]

13 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

TV coverage showed an angle with Edmunds down on the ground, and clearly solely possessing the ball.  The reactions of the officials was bizarre - almost like they were peeling off players from a post-fumble scrum.

 

Why did the off-field replay officials not call in?  

 

https://operations.nfl.com/officiating/instant-replay/replay-assistance-rule/

I don’t get the off-field review…when do they decide something is obvious enough that they should step in? When are coaches expected to challenge, vs getting an obvious overturn by the refs. It just offers more ambiguity in the NFLs already sketchy officiating. They need to get rid of that, or make it more transparent. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

There was eventually, but do you really trust an official to see it the way you do and overturn his teammate's call?

Enough to risk losing one of your second half timeouts, which we ultimately needed to even have a chance to win?

 

That one was close enough that I write it off and move on to the next play.

For a potential change in possession, I would have taken the chance.  

[Brand J]

It was close. As the two were falling to the ground, Edmunds had more control, not full control, but more than the Jets receiver. As they hit the turf the receiver had enough of the ball to get both hands in there for a simultaneous possession. If Edmunds had more of the ball he easily could’ve ripped full control away, but alas, either through dumb luck or lack of skill, his biggest critique strikes again - just can’t make the big plays.

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 minute ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I don’t get the off-field review…when do they decide something is obvious enough that they should step in? When are coaches expected to challenge, vs getting an obvious overturn by the refs. It just offers more ambiguity in the NFLs already sketchy officiating. They need to get rid of that, or make it more transparent. 

Totally agree - there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to when the off-field review is employed.

[Rc2catch]

I would agree with Simon above. I do think they stick with the call on the field. If it was ruled a pick I think it would have stood as well. 

[Livinginthepast]

I thought it was an INT but I also thought challenging it was pointless as the evidence to overturn the call was not clear. Edmunds needed to fight for the ball better like a basketball player trying to get the loose ball. 

[CaliBills]

they literally ran a play seconds after, I am sure McD was waiting to hear from his team and the jets ran a play quickly before he could get info.

[34-78-83]

I thought it would have been worth challenging. It was for sure a pick, but as Simon mentioned it was one of those that would be hard to get them to over turn.

Edited November 7, 2022 by 34-78-83

[Simon]

4 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I would agree with Simon above. I do think they stick with the call on the field. If it was ruled a pick I think it would have stood as well. 

 

By default, that back judge should have called it a pick so that it would automatically activate a review on a turnover.

[BullBuchanan]

I would have hoped that my 6'5" Pro Bowl linebacker wouldn't get out muscled for a ball he possessed on the ground.
 

[Virgil]

Maybe next time he can just hold onto it and avoid the confusion.  

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

By default, that back judge should have called it a pick so that it would automatically activate a review on a turnover.

Therein lies the problem - a turnover triggers an automatic review, but the refs sitting around with their thumbs up their asses and pretty much deciding "just give it to 'em", means that either the Bills had to have thrown a replay flag or the off-field review gets involved.

 

IMO, the standard for replay overturn is too stringent.  Change the "clear and convincing" standard to "preponderance".  

4 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I would have hoped that my 6'5" Pro Bowl linebacker wouldn't get out muscled for a ball he possessed on the ground.
 

 

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

Maybe next time he can just hold onto it and avoid the confusion.  

Ideally, yes, but the play unfolded as it did.

 

Along those same lines, it would have been nice if our "MVP" Quarterback didn't throw 2 more horrible INTs, or if the defense hadn't folded like a cheap accordion on the Jets last drive.  But, he did, and they did.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Obviously was an interception. Like one poster pointed out, there was an angle showing Edmunds with full possession.

 

But honestly I’m more upset about the QB sneak where Wilson was obviously stopped. I have no idea why that was not challenged? That drive lead to a touchdown for the Jets.

[MasterStrategist]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I would have hoped that my 6'5" Pro Bowl linebacker wouldn't get out muscled for a ball he possessed on the ground.
 

Tremaine didn't get outmuscled, he juggled it and gained possession just before hitting the ground and Jets TE basically put his hands in there.

 

As to challenging, I doubt it would have been overturned although drfinitely think it was a pick.  Never seen a  simultaneous catch overruled.  One angle showed Jets TE no longer touching the ball, but our luck they would have ruled that Tremaine still didn't have possession.

[Big Turk]

14 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

I thought it was an INT but I also thought challenging it was pointless as the evidence to overturn the call was not clear. Edmunds needed to fight for the ball better like a basketball player trying to get the loose ball. 

 

Similar play to when Kroft caught a ball and it was ruled an INT in the Rams game in 2020

[BuffaloRebound]

If Edmunds caught it cleanly, we’re not having this discussion.  He didn’t and he didn’t come out of the pile with possession.  There’s no way McDermott was winning that challenge.  

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Similar play to when Kroft caught a ball and it was ruled an INT in the Rams game in 2020

I disagree. That play against the Rams was far worse. Kroft caught the pass and was the sole one to possess the ball on his way to the ground before the defender stuck his hands in there. That Jets player never had sole possession. He probably had less than half a possession on his way to the ground, but credit him for not giving up on the ball. 

[Turbo44]

both the sneak and the INT were worth a challenge.  Would think someone upstairs would be in his ear. Wilson was clearly short on the sneak and Jets would have punted from their 34 with 6 minutes left in the half.  Instead, no, challenge was taken and Jets went down and scored with 32 seconds left.

 

Coaching, along with mostly everything else today really sucked.

[Beck Water]

28 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

By default, that back judge should have called it a pick so that it would automatically activate a review on a turnover.

 

Yes, that would have been optimal.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

22 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Tremaine didn't get outmuscled, he juggled it and gained possession just before hitting the ground and Jets TE basically put his hands in there.

 

As to challenging, I doubt it would have been overturned although drfinitely think it was a pick.  Never seen a  simultaneous catch overruled.  One angle showed Jets TE no longer touching the ball, but our luck they would have ruled that Tremaine still didn't have possession.

 

I thought simultaneous catch was a judgement call and therefore not reviewable. 

 

I'm not entirely sure if that was the ruling on the field or not

 

 

[Dopey]

29 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Maybe next time he can just hold onto it and avoid the confusion.  

Seems both of our lbs can’t hold onto the ball. How many has Milano just plain dropped?

[Success]

It was, for sure, an INT.

 

[Dopey]

37 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I would have hoped that my 6'5" Pro Bowl linebacker wouldn't get out muscled for a ball he possessed on the ground.
 

Yeah, he’s not this year’s whipping boy. 

[MPT]

36 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Similar play to when Kroft caught a ball and it was ruled an INT in the Rams game in 2020

 

That's exactly what I thought of. There has never been another example of one team clearly controlling the ball and the refs giving the ball to the other team. And then it happened AGAIN tonight. This ***** just doesn't happen to anyone else except the Bills. Referees are dog ***** with an agenda.

[Maybe Someday]

Qb sneak would never get overturned - those calls never do. 
 

The int should have been challenged. I saw an angle that shows TE with ball in his right arm and the receiver is pulling on his left arm as they went to the ground. Should have been an int and down by contract.
 

Pivotal play in the game.  We’re on to Minnesota. 

[ArtVandalay]

McDermott has one of the worst challenge records in NFL history.  6 for 24 in his 6 seasons, as of a couple years ago only Lebeau and Reeves were worse. If you are scratching your head why we didn't challenge, that's why. 

 

Camera angle showed clear possession. Where Edmunds controlled the ball and Uzmah didn't have a single finger on it. He tried grabbing it after Edmunds fell to the ground. 

 

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

That was one of those plays where the original call on the field was going to stand regardless of what that call was.

agreed, esp based on the crew out there today. They didn’t even overrule that spot for the Jets when the ball clearly hit the line of gain. Not reversing anything close. 

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

There was eventually, but do you really trust an official to see it the way you do and overturn his teammate's call?

Enough to risk losing one of your second half timeouts, which we ultimately needed to even have a chance to win?

 

That one was close enough that I write it off and move on to the next play.

This. And the Bills ended up getting the ball back, anyway.

 

This reminded me of the jump ball that was ruled an INT against the Bills a couple years ago. It was the opposite and the Bills were on the wrong side both times. 😑

[Donuts and Doritos]

Stop crying the refs screwed us. Refs didn't complete 53% passes for 2 INTs & 0 TDs, or avg 3 & 3.8 yds a carry from RBs or give up 174 yards running on D. or give up a 1st down on a fake punt or muff a kickoff out of bounds or QB sneak instead of pass to set up a 55 yd FG or miss that FG. Bills did that ALL on their own. They did not play well enough to win period. 

 

Scary part is this is the same issues we had in the 2nd half of GB, with different refs. So we keep blaming the refs instead of looking in the mirror & fixing this & we'll be sitting here looking for things to blame the refs about next week when the Vikings beat us.

 

 

[BuffaloRebound]

11 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

McDermott has one of the worst challenge records in NFL history.  6 for 24 in his 6 seasons, as of a couple years ago only Lebeau and Reeves were worse. If you are scratching your head why we didn't challenge, that's why. 

 

Camera angle showed clear possession. Where Edmunds controlled the ball and Uzmah didn't have a single finger on it. He tried grabbing it after Edmunds fell to the ground. 

 

 

 

He’s clutching it with his wrist/forearm against his shoulder.  And the ball was moving slightly when he went to the ground.  Not a catch going to the ground. Had to come out of pile with it.  

[ArtVandalay]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

He’s clutching it with his wrist/forearm against his shoulder.  And the ball was moving slightly when he went to the ground.  Not a catch going to the ground. Had to come out of pile with it.  

It wasn't moving it was secure.  I have it on my TV screen right now. Can't find it online. 

[RiotAct]

23 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

McDermott has one of the worst challenge records in NFL history.  6 for 24 in his 6 seasons, as of a couple years ago only Lebeau and Reeves were worse. If you are scratching your head why we didn't challenge, that's why. 

 

Camera angle showed clear possession. Where Edmunds controlled the ball and Uzmah didn't have a single finger on it. He tried grabbing it after Edmunds fell to the ground. 

 

 

 

thank you.  

[MPT]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

He’s clutching it with his wrist/forearm against his shoulder.  And the ball was moving slightly when he went to the ground.  Not a catch going to the ground. Had to come out of pile with it.  

 

Edmunds had the ball secured going all the way to the ground. Uzomah never even had partial possession of the ball from the moment it got knocked out of his hands.