Lil' Dummy McKenzie.........offical team character builder

[thenorthremembers]

6 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

No, its crazy.

 

He had a rough game. This is an overreaction.

Maybe so, but it all looked incredibly odd.   On the failed jet sweep he pushed the ball forward directly at the Chiefs.  On the touchdown drop he mysteriously slips.    Just looked bad.

[4merper4mer]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yep. Exactly how bad it is. Go Bills!

Nothing against Shakir but I don’t think our Super Bowl chances begin and end with him.

[Success]

A quick word on the TD "drop"- the ball was thrown behind him.

 

I still can't quite believe this thread. It will be good to bump the next time he makes a game-changing play, like he has a bunch of times for us.

 

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, Success said:

A quick word on the TD "drop"- the ball was thrown behind him.

 

I still can't quite believe this thread. It will be good to bump the next time he makes a game-changing play, like he has a bunch of times for us.

 

 

I agree that the TD drop was thrown behind him.

 

I don't think anyone here is saying that he's not capable of doing great things.  To me, it's about consistency and reliability.  Since he's been a Buffalo Bill, he's shown neither.

[4merper4mer]

5 minutes ago, Success said:

A quick word on the TD "drop"- the ball was thrown behind him.

 

I still can't quite believe this thread. It will be good to bump the next time he makes a game-changing play, like he has a bunch of times for us.

 

After 4 years of dissecting everything Edmunds does as a negative, don’t hold your breath on some people ever seeing anything positive.

[RocCityRoller]

Rough game for certain, but I'm not sure McKenzie should be the slot.

I don't think OBD thought so either, which is why they brought in Crowder.

 

Thankfully it looks like Shakir could be another answer with Crowder down.

 

Hope McKenie goes back to the go-go gadget guy where he is excellent.

I wish Dorsey would dust off a few of those plays when a spark is needed, or to slow down a ferocious pass rush.

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

oh please, there is a difference between a 2 year guy learning the position at the NFL level and now a 5+ year vet that never broke 300 yards in a season.

 

your statement is crazy. Last year Knox had a 500 yard year. after 5 years in the league you should not be a "work in progress" ... come on man... not with the younger depth behind him.

 

Good thing you're not our GM.  in my opinion after KC game, McKenzie lost his #3 WR position.

 

Yeah I am a McK fan but I think Shakir has earned more reps.  I wish they would bring back the jet sweeps and fake jet sweeps with McK though.

3 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Are you talking about the first fumble?  I couldn't disagree more.

 

1) You dont know where that lay was "supposed to go to", certainly not by players reactions, not saying you are not correct but un less you were in the huddle don't know.

2) He looked right  at the ball and the ball went between both hands.

3) Despite what Nance said on the telecast, he saw the ball coming.

 

Sal commented on this play as did Josh and McD I think.  The play was a screen to the other side of the field.  McK was not expecting the ball.  McK should have done better but thats what happened.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

6 hours ago, mrags said:

My point still stands. McKenzie is not the answer 

Von wasn’t either right? 
 

im the last one in this board that has been crazy about the OBJ love. I think it’s overrated. But the fact is, McKenzie has not stepped up in the role of replacing Beasley. He would absolutely 100% be benched in favor of Crowder by now if he was healthy too. I love McKenzie. One of the best personalities on this team and is absolutely needed in the locker room imo. But I’d rather keep him to a gadget guy with limited touches. He’s had 2 good games in his career. Maybe 3. Other than that he’s shown he’s not a starter in this league. He’s a #4-6 at best. 

Von Miller was an elite guy at a position of dire need.

 

OBJ is NOT elite (hasn’t been since 2016) and WR is not a position of need. Depth is always good, but that’s why we signed Crowder and drafted Shakir. 
 

2 totally different scenario completely. 

 

[Magox]

McKenzie tripped on that play.  He went to plant his foot to try to stop and receive the ball and as he was attempting to plant his left foot he tripped up.  It threw his body out of wack of what otherwise would have been a simple catch for him.

[billsfan_34]

Lil dirty was awful yesterday. From fumbling, dropping passes, and falling down in the end zone; focus has become a liability again with this guy. I see Shakir cementing the slot role very soon.

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

So, we all agree, trade McKenzie and a 3rd to the Panthers for Christian McCaffery...

It will take more than that and a restructure.

[without a drought]

On the fumble, Josh shouldn't be so careless with the ball. Bad decision, bad results.

[McMuffin]

I was never sold on Mckenzie.  He’s a gadget player.  That one pass in the endzone… it looked like an unseen force pulled him down out of the air.  

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yep. Exactly how bad it is. Go Bills!

Like I said. We were all holding our breath during the second half worrying about the next McKenzie gaffe. Can’t have that in the playoffs.

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

The only “solution” at this point is a rookie who himself has shown suspect awareness in critical spots.

 

He has? I think Shakir has showed much better instincts than I've ever seen out of McKenzie. He has a knack for positioning his body just right at the catch point to make the catch, then immediately find space and pick up YAC. And he's still just getting his feet wet in the pros. McKenzie has had his 10,000 reps. He is who he is at this point. Shakir will keep getting better. It's hard to find any reason McKenzie should be getting more snaps than him.

 

7 hours ago, Iverwig said:

He was Not expecting the ball when it came. He was not looking when the ball was initially coming his way.

 

So, what is McKenzie's job on that play? To run off to the right and do nothing?

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by HappyDays

[ChicagoRic]

It's one bad game. Recency bias is a thing.

 

The stats say he's not terrible and is actually having a productive year.

In the 5 games he's played: 17 receptions, more than half of which have been for first downs.  3 TDs, which is good for 3rd on the team, behind Diggs (6) and Davis (4). 

 

So easy to forget the tough TD catch he made between 2 defenders vs the Rams.

 

So easy to forget that in week 3 he had 7 receptions for 76 yards and a TD vs the Dolphins. 

 

So easy to forget the Ravens game where the took a return out to the 40, caught a nice TD pass, and converted 3rd and 7 to a first down and hung on to the damn ball on the concussion hit.  The Bills went on to score on that drive.  

 

But, yeah sure, he's a terrible joke player. 

 

Granted, Shakir looks promising and will see more touches as the year goes on, but to call Lil' Dirty Lil' Dummy is just showing you have a short memory. 

 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

So, what is McKenzie's job on that play? To run off to the right and do nothing?

 

On a fake reverse or a fake jet sweep, you just nailed the job description.

 

 

[Comebackkid]

what i see watching mckenzie is an unbelievable athlete off the field..   you watch when the bills show agility drills and he 

kills everyone.  you want speed..he has it in spades.   the problem is on the field it doesnt translate 100%.   he gets chased down from behind.  for all his agility off the field he has a hard time out juking players.   then his build is still light even though he is muscular 

which leads to fumbles and injuries.    great guy...great athlete..  so so football player.

[JoshAllin]

He has scored 3 TD's compared to Beasley's 1 last year, so he can't be that bad guys

[Niagara Bill]

15 hours ago, Magox said:

McKenzie tripped on that play.  He went to plant his foot to try to stop and receive the ball and as he was attempting to plant his left foot he tripped up.  It threw his body out of wack of what otherwise would have been a simple catch for him.

I do wonder if concussion hangover creates some reaction or balance issues even though they are cleared. He has done some great things but now seems a little off.

[Dablitzkrieg]

Without being a child the OP, I would like to see a shift to Shakir.  He has a significant upside versus the limitations of McKenzie 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

16 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Nothing against Shakir but I don’t think our Super Bowl chances begin and end with him.

What's the harm in testing your theory? 

 

So far he's made no mistakes and looks ready for this. Let's see what happens with more reps- maybe we'll end up with someone we can actually count on.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Mckenzie had a really bad game - not going to fire him but id probably put him behind shakir to try and spark something.  Can't make that many mistakes in a big game and not expect something.  You get an extra week to get shakir up, and you put mckenzie at the 4 and give him some package plays but his snap count should be decreased. 

 

However... and I want to stress this.  We will need Mckenzie before the season is over, so don't roll the bus over him. 

 

1 hour ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

What's the harm in testing your theory? 

 

So far he's made no mistakes and looks ready for this. Let's see what happens with more reps- maybe we'll end up with someone we can actually count on.

 

Shakir dropped a wide open pass in the pittsburgh game, and concentration drops were an issue for him in his college scouting report.  

 

10 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

On a fake reverse or a fake jet sweep, you just nailed the job description.

 

 

 

It was a dumb play imo.  We run and pass our way down then try some weird cheeky jet motion read option WITH a pitch - just dumb.  If you want to run it, run it - or hand it on the jet motion... just a really confusing easy to screw up play.  He's still gotta have that ball though.  

[Iverwig]

13 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

He has? I think Shakir has showed much better instincts than I've ever seen out of McKenzie. He has a knack for positioning his body just right at the catch point to make the catch, then immediately find space and pick up YAC. And he's still just getting his feet wet in the pros. McKenzie has had his 10,000 reps. He is who he is at this point. Shakir will keep getting better. It's hard to find any reason McKenzie should be getting more snaps than him.

 

 

So, what is McKenzie's job on that play? To run off to the right and do nothing?

 

His quote on what his job was is already listed in the thread. If you and others want to dispute what he and Josh said then fine have it. Believe what you want and I’ll believe what I want and we’ll agree to disagree. 

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, motorj said:

He has scored 3 TD's compared to Beasley's 1 last year, so he can't be that bad guys

He’s not THAT bad- he just is what he has been the last few years.  A niche target that is capable of moving the chains and making plays but also capable of being terrible and making huge mistakes.  
 

He can help us win, but also help us lose. Hopefully his snaps should be cut down to 10-20 or so a game.  If we cut his snaps and he still makes blunders, this will be his last year. 

[Buffaloflash]

23 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Rumor is he had to leave UGA early due to poor grades. It was either move on to the draft or become academically ineligible. 

And this spell what? 

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Without being a child the OP, I would like to see a shift to Shakir.  He has a significant upside versus the limitations of McKenzie 

 

I think it's actually a universal sentiment that everyone sees Shakir as having a higher ceiling, and hopes for him to play well and take over.  Whatever you think of his play, McKenzie is a physically limited guy.  He's not gonna grow 6 inches, put on 30 pounds, gain bigger hands, and stay just as fast like Shakir.  I don't think you'll find one single fan, including the fans who are fully willing to recognize and credit McKenzie's contributions this year and previous years, who hopes differently.

 

The question is when.  The average fan sees great catches and run after catch and is like "great! why isn't Shakir playing more?"

 

But take last game.  Shakir was on the field for 15 snaps.  He had 2 targets.  He missed one he could arguably have caught but it was ahead of him - was he in the right place, or was the ball off target?, he made a beautiful catch on the other. 

 

So what is he doing the other 13 snaps?  If his role was to run a clearing route, did he get a clean release and complete the route with conviction?  If his role was to block downfield on a run or after a reception by someone else, did he at least get in the defender's way (more a matter of timing and technique than size/strength)?  Those are the things the coaches are looking at. 

 

And frankly, when I see film and pick out Shakir, the answer so far is a mixed bag.  I have seen beautiful downfield blocks and a couple good blocks in the backfield.  I have also seen total whiffs.  Similar with routes- seen beautiful routes, seen routes where he got taken out or where I could say "you know you're not getting the ball". 

 

I have absolutely no doubt that Shakir will keep working and learning and improving and will take over in time, but fans have to understand that coaches are looking at the entire 15 snaps, not just the 2 where Shakir got targeted, or vs Pittsburgh they're looking at the whole 39 snaps, not the 5 where Shakir got targeted and the 3 lovely receptions.  And it's what he's doing on those other snaps that will determine the time.

[Wayne Arnold]

Wonder what Marquez Stevenson's status is. Haven't heard anything about him. Was eligible to return from IR two weeks ago.

[Beck Water]

10 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Wonder what Marquez Stevenson's status is. Haven't heard anything about him. Was eligible to return from IR two weeks ago.

 

McDermott said something about it in one of his pressers IIRC, it was to the effect that Stevenson wasn't near to return.

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

McDermott said something about it in one of his pressers IIRC, it was to the effect that Stevenson wasn't near to return.

 

Safe to say he'll be out for the year. Has one more week to be added to the 53, like Tre and I believe Boettger.

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Safe to say he'll be out for the year. Has one more week to be added to the 53, like Tre and I believe Boettger.

 

How do you get that "one more week"?  I don't think that's correct.

[FilthyBeast]

4 hours ago, motorj said:

He has scored 3 TD's compared to Beasley's 1 last year, so he can't be that bad guys

 

If that's the only measuring stick for you great, but he's nowhere close to Beasely overall in what he meant to this offense at the time and the longer this guy is on the field the greater chance it will cost us an actual game.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Safe to say he'll be out for the year. Has one more week to be added to the 53, like Tre and I believe Boettger.

 

He was not on PUP.  He made active 53, then was placed on IR.  Once he start practicing i think theres a 3 or 4 week window to activate. 

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

How do you get that "one more week"?  I don't think that's correct.

 

I could be wrong but I thought the IR rules stated that when a player is placed on IR, after being out four games a player has a three-week window to return to the 53-man roster. Otherwise they have to be placed on season-ending IR.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

If that's the only measuring stick for you great, but he's nowhere close to Beasely overall in what he meant to this offense at the time and the longer this guy is on the field the greater chance it will cost us an actual game.

 

He's been pretty good all year - had a bad day in KC.  I think justifiably you can argue he should have a reduced snap count.  He needs to earn back trust with his performance on the field.  

 

Focus on 10-15 plays that you want from him, jet motion stuff, some man beating concepts etc.  

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

I could be wrong but I thought the IR rules stated that when a player is placed on IR, after being out four games a player has a three-week window to return to the 53-man roster. Otherwise they have to be placed on season-ending IR.

 

That was if they didn't make the active roster i believe.  

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

I could be wrong but I thought the IR rules stated that when a player is placed on IR, after being out four games a player has a three-week window to return to the 53-man roster. Otherwise they have to be placed on season-ending IR.

 

Ah, OK, I see. 

 

So 2 things getting mixed here. 

 

PUP - which is what Boettger and White were on - is for players who started TC unable to practice.  When a guy goes on PUP into the regular season he needs to stay there for at least 4 weeks, but he can stay on there as long as the team wants though - 8 weeks, 12 weeks.  Can't practice while he's on it, can attend meetings and watch film with the team, use facilities.

 

When the player starts practicing, he gets a 21 day window (I think it's days, not games) to practice with the team, at the end of that 3 weeks he either gets placed on the 53 man roster OR go on season ending IR (of course there's a work around.  Player can go on the 53 man roster as an active player for a couple days, then go on IR eligible to return.)

 

IR - which is what Stevenson is on - player must start the season on the 53 man roster to be eligible to come off.  Player can't practice with the team until he's off.  Like PUP, the player must be on IR at least 4 games (games not weeks) but there's no maximum - he can stay on IR 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 12 weeks.  BUT, he has to go onto the 53 man roster once he starts practicing.  And, this year the team gets a maximum of 8 players who can return.

 

So Boettger can stay on PUP for many weeks, and Stevenson can stay on IR for many weeks, and still be eligible to return.  It's a minimum of 4 weeks, not a 4 week deadline to decide.

[Bronxbomber21]

On 10/16/2022 at 10:10 PM, Captain_Quint said:

He had an embarrassing game today. It was obvious that they were trying to lean that way early, and he couldn't get out if his own way. 

 

I've been on the fence, but today he was a glaring issue. 

Mckenzie played like he still had a concussion 

[WideNine]

On 10/16/2022 at 7:23 PM, Aussie Joe said:

Bad luck seems to follow him….

The only big game he has ever had was against the Patriots last year..

 

I would be happy with very limited time on the field rest of season and then cut bait at the end of the year…

 

No more kick returns either 

 

 

 

 

McKenzie can be a boom or bust kind of player and he needs to work on more consistency.

 

His speed and the fact he was money for us against the Pats when we needed him to step up last year does go a ways with me.

 

Have been hoping that more time featured in the offense would lead to that consistency, as I like to see our players succeed.

 

Don't blame him for not being ready for what was likely an improvisational shovel pass from Allen, but he was off in his timing and routes with some drops in other area of the game and has had a few brain farts this year.

 

I am willing to chalk this last game up to just being back a bit too early from his concussion protocol and not being in sync with Allen and the offense.

 

But with Shakir waiting in the wings, the hook will be faster if he keeps struggling.

 

 

 

[BillsfaninSB]

I understand the concern about his body of work this year but I’m not convinced the fumble and the TD drop was 100% him.

 

It seemed like Josh had to pitch that ball to him sooner than expected.  He had a wall of Chiefs in front of him.  The play design may have required more time and the o-line didn’t do their job.
 

The pass was behind McKenzie.  It reminded me of the 2020 Barkley pass  against the Pats that broke Beasley’s leg. 

[zow2]

He needs to stop being a goofball ALL the time and start paying attention a bit.  His KC game was Pfffft.    I still say he could've gotten out of bounds vs Miami and given Bass a long chance for a FG,,  OR he could've used some intelligence and immediately dropped to the ground like I'm sure has been coached in final second situations.  

[Starr Almighty]

Let's just say I almost ran on the field to kick him in the ass 🤣