Goodell hints at a 4 team European Division for the NFL in the near future...and wasn't joking.

[LabattBlue]

Call me skeptical…I don’t see 1 team let alone 4 in the next decade…maybe longer. 

[boyst]

13 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

You can make a trip shorter however the body difference remains its 1pm in LA and your internal clock is at 9pm London time. Vice/versa 

 

but I get your point. 

An 8pm game in Europe is a 1pm game in the US.

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, Irish Dave said:

I grew up in Amherst, life long Bills fan.  But now I live in Europe. (Ireland).  I gotta tell  you guys,  "American Football" as it's known here is seen as a silly little sport.  They make fun of the padding (compared to Rugby which has no padding).   Also people here see it as having WAY too many commercials.  It's actually ridicouls the amount of commercials there are, when you compare it with a Premiere League  Soccer match - and soccer is by far the biggest sport in Europe.   Games have NO commercials, except at halftime.  Imagine that.  The clock runs continuously.  So - as much as we love it, grew up with it and love the Bills, for people here it's  nothing more than a passing fancing; a silly game, with silly helmets.  Despite my trying to convince them otherwise!

I think this is a general augment in Europe. what football is better. this has nothing to do with what sport is better. this has to do with will the tickets sell with branding to make it profitable for a future owner. I would say without a doubt yes. There is a reason why the NFL games sell out or near sell out when they travel to europe.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, FrenchConnection said:

Maybe it’s changing, but I had a hard time even explaining the rules to Germans as little as 10 years ago. 

Lol we can't even define a catch nor when the clock is supposed to stop on the out of bounds line either...

[akcash]

How would it work? I'm just thinking you add another division does it go into the AFC or the NFC?

[Malazan]

3 minutes ago, akcash said:

How would it work? I'm just thinking you add another division does it go into the AFC or the NFC?

 

I'd suspect it would come with a large re-alignment of divisions and conferences. European teams in the American Football Conference would be strange.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

17 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Call me skeptical…I don’t see 1 team let alone 4 in the next decade…maybe longer. 

I tend to agree. Pretty sure they said the same thing about basketball in Toronto back in the day.

The difference is that basketball was already international with the Olympics and European players becoming stars in the NBA. There is no international pipeline of players to grow football overseas. 

Add to that, are there 4 more QBs that are starting quality? Another 200 players that can play at the NFL level? I dont think so. 

 

[JoPoy88]

Wonder what they’re thinking. 2 in the UK 2 in Germany? 

[sherpa]

27 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

BoomJet makes its debut in 3-4 years at the earliest. These are 60-70 person jets. The equipment can be shipped other ways. 

 

Jfk to Fra is a 3 hour flight on th ovature. 

 

Too many unsolved variables to rely on this.

There is still a restriction on supersonic flights over land.

That would have to be adjusted, though current potential manufacturers believe they can get that approved with more modern designs that eliminate the sonic boom issue. 

As I understand it, Boom Jet doesn't even have an engine supplier yet.

They are years, probably closer to a decade for operation.

 

It would take about three-four of these to do an NFL charter from or to Europe, not counting equipment, which could be shipped by other means.

 

Hard to say what the free agent market would attract.

NFL players are not exactly the demographic that desires European life. Tax situation is a puzzle as well.

 

Not holding my breath.

[dpberr]

The NFL has no patience to sustain the losses, and they will have a difficult time finding owners there that will have the resources to sustain the losses.  

 

NFL Europe hemorrhaged a $400 million loss by the time the NFL closed it down.  Not a single team in that league made any money in any year of existence.  The NFL Europe games they do now make no money for the league. 

 

IMO, the NFL would better spend its money developing a farm league in the United States/Canada for management, officiating, coaches and players.   They are the only professional league in North America without any sort of minor league infrastructure.  

 

 

 

 

[Freak-O]

As a European I would say interest in the nfl is definitely growing. More games are broadcast on tv now than ten years ago and there are more people you can talk football with. The majority of the games start at 7 pm Swedish time and what else do you do at that time on a Sunday? Could Europe support four teams? Who knows. Initially there will be the novelty factor but if the teams suck I fear fans might lose interest after a few seasons since whatever fandom has been built up has not had time to grow deep roots yet. 
 

For me personally I would find a European expansion more exciting than more teams in LA or Texas, but it would no longer be the NATIONAL football league. 

[ColoradoBills]

LOL, Roger said this in London and is just talking bullcrap and blowing smoke up the European NFL fans butts.

There would be so many pitfalls to this idea it's not even funny.

 

There has been a lot of reasons it's a bad idea already given, but once this got into serious talks so many more would arise.

Scheduling alone would be a nightmare.  What would this do to MNF, TNF, playoff games just to start it off.

 

The scheduling issues bring in the travel discrepancies.  Imagine the Rams not knowing who you are playing in the playoffs and

finding out Sunday night you play in Frankford the following Sunday.  Just think of the competitive advantage a #1 seeded EU team

would have.

 

However, most likely it would be a huge disadvantage to the EU teams.  All things being equal what would the average UFA player choose?

How about the 21-year-old kids who gets drafted and doesn't want to live in EU?  As it stands now, they can refuse and rejoin the draft

the following year.

 

It's bad enough when a player gets into legal problems in the US, what's going to happen when a couple of EU countries are involved.

The NFLPA would have a lot of questions about players rights and conditions of work.  

 

 

[HOUSE]

Oh sure,, outsource all the jobs to other countries 

[sherpa]

In my view, it would make more sense to have their their own conference, complete with a championship, and then do a Super Bowl type thing with the US team that emerges.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Irish Dave said:

I grew up in Amherst, life long Bills fan.  But now I live in Europe. (Ireland).  I gotta tell  you guys,  "American Football" as it's known here is seen as a silly little sport.  They make fun of the padding (compared to Rugby which has no padding).   Also people here see it as having WAY too many commercials.  It's actually ridicouls the amount of commercials there are, when you compare it with a Premiere League  Soccer match - and soccer is by far the biggest sport in Europe.   Games have NO commercials, except at halftime.  Imagine that.  The clock runs continuously.  So - as much as we love it, grew up with it and love the Bills, for people here it's  nothing more than a passing fancing; a silly game, with silly helmets.  Despite my trying to convince them otherwise!

 

I hadn’t been to a game in years and remember when I started attending again I was shocked by all the “dead commercial time” in the stadium. You get used to it after a while, but it gets your attention in person. 

 

NYC to London appears to be about 7 hours in the air. NYC to LA is about 6 hours, so not that different. BUT, for a west coast team to get to Europe is brutal, as would be the reverse. I know they want the money, but I’m not sure how practical the scheduling and travel would be. 

[BuffaloRebound]

2 hours ago, JDubya76 said:

Can the talent pool support another four teams. We all watched that debacle on Thursday night. There has been some really bad football on display the first four weeks and that’s without having to staff an additional 212 player positions plus practice squads.

 

 

I think it’s becoming pretty clear the NFL has to expand the talent pool outside of American high school football where participation is falling.  
Put a few teams in europe and I’m sure the hope is that more people will start playing the sport there.  

[Nextmanup]

Turning the NFL from an American sports entertainment product sensation into a WORLD product has to be very high on the list of these guys.  Why stop with billions when you can get trillions?

 

I have NO idea how you could have a European division, b/c travel would be unfair for everyone in that division.

Then you have the fact that most Europeans don't give a rat's ass about NFL football...

 

I hope this becomes the bridge too far for even the NFL to conquer.

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

Logistically:

The 4 teams rotate on how they come to the US and vice versa.

 

The Vienna Sausages and the Roman Candles play 4 weeks in the US. The go back to Europe to play their common opponents - 2 teams of the AFCW and 2 teams of the NFCE mind of deal

 

Then they swap around and the Cairro Pyros and Vatican Kamikazes play their games in the US at that time opport their other teams.

 

One thing I think you'd need is an 18 week schedule so all teams have an extra bye, maybe scheduled around their Europe trip.  Would also mean the Europe teams would need to make two 4 week trips to the US so even two byes aren't going to help them.

 

Do think there's a huge difference between playing a handful of games over there each season as that's more of a novelty and now having a full time "home" team to support.  I'm kind of of skeptical of that working very well.

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

One thing I think you'd need is an 18 week schedule so all teams have an extra bye, maybe scheduled around their Europe trip.  Would also mean the Europe teams would need to make two 4 week trips to the US so even two byes aren't going to help them.

 

Do think there's a huge difference between playing a handful of games over there each season as that's more of a novelty and now having a full time "home" team to support.  I'm kind of of skeptical of that working very well.

There are a lot of ex-pats and American fans who made the trip in those seats too.

[TBBills]

Funny watching people hate on things like this. 

[Low Positive]

15 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Funny watching people hate on things like this. 

I'm not hating on the idea, I just don't think it would work.

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection said:

I'm not hating on the idea, I just don't think it would work.

 

Maybe/maybe not but the NFL knows how to make money like noone else and rarely takes a step in the wrong direction regarding that 

[TBBills]

5 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I'm not hating on the idea, I just don't think it would work.

It's already working...

 

American football itself is played in over 80 countries around the world.

 

 

I think even a small percentage of those numbers the NFL would love to have enjoy the game in person. 

Edited October 8, 2022 by TBBills

[PonyBoy]

4 hours ago, Irish Dave said:

I grew up in Amherst, life long Bills fan.  But now I live in Europe. (Ireland).  I gotta tell  you guys,  "American Football" as it's known here is seen as a silly little sport.  They make fun of the padding (compared to Rugby which has no padding).   Also people here see it as having WAY too many commercials.  It's actually ridicouls the amount of commercials there are, when you compare it with a Premiere League  Soccer match - and soccer is by far the biggest sport in Europe.   Games have NO commercials, except at halftime.  Imagine that.  The clock runs continuously.  So - as much as we love it, grew up with it and love the Bills, for people here it's  nothing more than a passing fancing; a silly game, with silly helmets.  Despite my trying to convince them otherwise!

 

Buiochas! 😉

[MJS]

3 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

The NFL is jealous of the global reach of the NBA. But basketball, like association football,  is a sport played all around the world. The NFL has to realise that gridiron football is like Australian Rules Football. The AFL is the most popular sport in Australia but only has a niche following elsewhere. 

They do realize that. That's why they are trying to change it. It's smart for them to try.

3 hours ago, Irish Dave said:

I grew up in Amherst, life long Bills fan.  But now I live in Europe. (Ireland).  I gotta tell  you guys,  "American Football" as it's known here is seen as a silly little sport.  They make fun of the padding (compared to Rugby which has no padding).   Also people here see it as having WAY too many commercials.  It's actually ridicouls the amount of commercials there are, when you compare it with a Premiere League  Soccer match - and soccer is by far the biggest sport in Europe.   Games have NO commercials, except at halftime.  Imagine that.  The clock runs continuously.  So - as much as we love it, grew up with it and love the Bills, for people here it's  nothing more than a passing fancing; a silly game, with silly helmets.  Despite my trying to convince them otherwise!

Sure. That's why they are investing so much money to change perceptions. And it is working slowly but surely in many countries. It isn't going to change overnight.

[US Egg]

7 a.m. Sunday NFL games?

[dreadlox]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

In my view, it would make more sense to have their their own conference, complete with a championship, and then do a Super Bowl type thing with the US team that emerges.

I don’t think the super bowl champion would want to postpone their offseason to go and play the EU champion. The post super bowl championship wouldn’t be viewed by most as legit. Who knows though, that’s what the super bowl was initially, right?

[Big Turk]

28 minutes ago, TBBills said:

It's already working...

 

American football itself is played in over 80 countries around the world.

 

 

I think even a small percentage of those numbers the NFL would love to have enjoy the game in person. 

 

Wow...very surprised at Brazil having that many...how did that happen??

 

Apparently because it's on TV there and has become really popular...the article below is from 2015 and if the numbers above are an indication, its only gotten more popular since then.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/27/american-football-nfl-hit-brazil

 

South Korea, Spain and Saudi Arabian also very surprising as the NFL has never been there

Edited October 8, 2022 by Big Turk

[JoPoy88]

7 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

7 a.m. Sunday NFL games?

They’re not that far ahead.

[Bad Things]

I'm interested to know why the average American NFL fan would support this.

I get the idea that it would be fun to fly over there for a game and see the sights, but for most people that may be out of reach.

 

I personally think it's a bad idea on many levels.

[harryS]

3 hours ago, bobobonators said:

Another thing too is the very name of the league. Would it still be the NATIONAL football league? Or do we change it to International Football League (IFL) or Major League Football (MLF). 
 

i know that to many it may be semantics, but words matter and with teams overseas its no longer a national league. Does the brand change? Is that a good thing? I dont want that. 
 

in short, I simply feel the NFL is trying to squeeze a square peg in a round hole. 

Yeh i get that but the game continues. 

 

Globalist Football League.  Satan's Plan Football League.

 

Jokes aside, don't the Euros have much stricter vaxx mandates?  That alone would scuttle this.  The NFL has smartly not investigated how rampant fake vaxx cards are, but that wouldn't fly with the Euros.

[co_springs_billsfan]

57 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Wow...very surprised at Brazil having that many...how did that happen??

 

Apparently because it's on TV there and has become really popular...the article below is from 2015 and if the numbers above are an indication, its only gotten more popular since then.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/27/american-football-nfl-hit-brazil

 

South Korea, Spain and Saudi Arabian also very surprising as the NFL has never been there

I attended a couple Barcelona Dragons games in the 90s, so they were "there"

[chongli]

LOL ..someone in one of the comments to the PFT article about this topic claimed the Bills should become the Amsterdam Bills:

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/10/08/roger-goodell-hints-at-a-four-team-european-division/#comments

 

Quote

 

"nfldivas says:

October 8, 2022 at 1:03 pm

 

The Berlin Panthers or Jets, Paris Charges (LA doesn’t want this team), London Jags (almost guaranteed) and until their new stadium is built Amsterdam Bills, Bears, Broncos, anyone else that wants a new stadium (extortion NFL style)."

 

 

59 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

They’re not that far ahead.

 

The London games start at 6:30 AM where I live.

Edited October 8, 2022 by chongli

[Just Jack]

Just roll all the NFL Europe teams into the league.  

 

Oh, never mind.  

[without a drought]

3 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Oh sure,, outsource all the jobs to other countries 

[sullim4]

5 hours ago, bobobonators said:

8hr time difference from London to West Coast. Thats no joke 

 

And 9h to Germany and most of Central Europe.  The bottom line compensation difference will also be massive - taxes in Europe are no joke.

 

I feel like Mexico and Canada are the smarter moves for international expansion.  No need to worry about time zones at all and you could put them in the same divisions as US teams pretty easily.  Similarly, I wonder if they could get some traction in South America where Brazil, Chile, and Argentina have solid soccer stadiums.  Those flights are quite long, but the time change is minimal at least.

[boyst]

4 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

Too many unsolved variables to rely on this.

There is still a restriction on supersonic flights over land.

That would have to be adjusted, though current potential manufacturers believe they can get that approved with more modern designs that eliminate the sonic boom issue. 

As I understand it, Boom Jet doesn't even have an engine supplier yet.

They are years, probably closer to a decade for operation.

 

It would take about three-four of these to do an NFL charter from or to Europe, not counting equipment, which could be shipped by other means.

 

Hard to say what the free agent market would attract.

NFL players are not exactly the demographic that desires European life. Tax situation is a puzzle as well.

 

Not holding my breath.

80 people - 60 players + 20 coaching and Management staff 

 

Training staff etc could be sent via non super sonic

 

Owners and big dogs would probably fly private jets anywhoo

---------

Another concern:

 

How many good QBs are available?  There are maybe 24 NFL calibre QBs in the league now. There are 8 that could replaced tomorrow with another QB (backup somewhere, or NCAA).

 

Eventually you water out the league. 

[Mango]

6 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

Logistically:

The 4 teams rotate on how they come to the US and vice versa.

 

The Vienna Sausages and the Roman Candles play 4 weeks in the US. The go back to Europe to play their common opponents - 2 teams of the AFCW and 2 teams of the NFCE mind of deal

 

Then they swap around and the Cairro Pyros and Vatican Kamikazes play their games in the US at that time opport their other teams.

I think the best way to make is to change formula for scheduling. Play everybody in your division 3 times. That ensures everybody in Europe is home half the season. 

[Low Positive]

24 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

80 people - 60 players + 20 coaching and Management staff 

 

Training staff etc could be sent via non super sonic

 

Owners and big dogs would probably fly private jets anywhoo

---------

Another concern:

 

How many good QBs are available?  There are maybe 24 NFL calibre QBs in the league now. There are 8 that could replaced tomorrow with another QB (backup somewhere, or NCAA).

 

Eventually you water out the league. 

How many starting quality OT are there? We don't have 64 of them in the league now. Where can teams find another 8?

[Chaos]

My grandfather and father could imagine my generation ( I am a senior citizen) would prefer Football over baseball. Similar today's diehard football fans, particularly the smaller market teams like Buffalo and Green Bay, don't seem to realize today's younger people care less about football, than the average poster on this board cares about MLB.   Football appeal outside the USA will be like the NHL is in the USA (versus Canada), where every city has 15-20 k people willing to buy tickets to go to games so they have lots of sell outs,  and no one else really cares about the sport.  NFL can achieve that in practically any major city in Europe.