Most talented player in Bills franchise history?

[skibum]

Bruce, OJ, Allen for sure. Lots of other candidates; HM to Kyle Williams, that guy was a freaky athlete.

[Orlando Tim]

On straight athletic ability it has to be Josh at the top, with Bruce right there and then probably Eric Moulds who played in a basketball final four. I am not gonna discuss guys from prior to 1985 because I don't know them well 

[chris heff]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

OJ & Bruce we’re 1st overall picks. Allen* ‘dropping’ to 7th overall will never be forgiven by the fans whose team didn’t select him. The Juice was a phenom, though he played with 2 HOF Guards, brilliant WRs and a very effective HC & QB. Bruce was literally surrounded by HOFers -including his coach & was excellent vs the run. But he was significantly more productive as a pass rusher because of the immense talent on his offenses. The Unicorn* -remember, your read that here 1st- still has no clue how great he can be as he’s personally aced every pressure situation he’s faced to date. Barring injury, he’s a lock as most talented ever. But remember, so was Tom Sestak, Robert James & Jerry Butler, all of whom only enjoyed a few great seasons before injuries killed their careers. As to the OP’s request for my Top 5, I’ll add Butch Byrd and Cookie Gilcrest. Byrd was an enigma, built like a LB and ferocious. His 40 career INTs will likely never be topped. Cookie and Terrell Owens we’re also enigmas  whose character quirks had them playing for multiple teams, wearing out their welcome with each stop while being eye-poppingly incredible players.

Honorable mention: Cornelius Bennett

I agree, I saw all those guys play, however I think Bruce Smith has to get the nod. Bruce had the ability to step up and take over a game. That is a rare talent. 

[Gugny]

Bruce

[Beast]

OJ for sure.

[njbuff]

1 hour ago, BillsFanSD said:

Moulds in particular should get more attention in this thread.  I wouldn't put him ahead of Bruce or Allen, but I thought he was more physically talented than Reed and I would pay good money to see what he would have been like in this offense with modern NFL rules.

Moulds, with Diggs = dynasty. 👍

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

For those of you hesitant to put Allen on there, “because it’s too early” you are missing the question. The question is “the most physically gifted Bills ever.” Josh Allen, may be, the most physically gifted person to ever play the most important position in the game. He’s inarguably on the list. 
 

If the question was, “who are the 5 greatest Bills ever” I’m fine with no Allen. I see a lot of Thurman on here and I think people are using those 2 questions interchangeably. I love Thurman. He is one of the 5 greatest Bills ever. He’s not one of the 5 most physically gifted. 

Would Lee Evans count ?  He was smooth in his routes and was a speed burner. Too bad he was part of the ***** teams the Bills dished out during his time here

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Would Lee Evans count ?  He was smooth in his routes and was a speed burner. Too bad he was part of the ***** teams the Bills dished out during his time here

He wouldn’t be on my short list but have a shot at the “most talented 53.” He was an elite deep threat with great hands. Moulds and TO were more physically imposing. 

[BuffaloBill]

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

You mean this ?

 

 

 

Exactly …. Hard to believe he started four Buffalo…..

[oldmanfan]

Others I’d mention:

 

Jerry Butler - HOFer if he hadn’t got hurt

Tom Sestak - same thing

Freddie Smerlas

Elbert Dubenion

[ganesh]

Willis McGahee too!

[bdomdbomb]

Given what we know right now - Bruce Smith but I could be persuaded to change to Josh Allen if current trends continue.

[Playoffs?]

1 hour ago, njbuff said:

Moulds, with Diggs = dynasty. 👍

Can we throw Reed in there?  Reed was such a monster over the middle. 

[njbuff]

6 minutes ago, Playoffs? said:

Can we throw Reed in there?  Reed was such a monster over the middle. 

Sure, why not. 😁

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Does talent = raw athletic ability? I think talent happens when the raw athletic ability is applied to its fullest potential to football.

 

For example, I think Diggs may be as talented as any other Bill, but without the elite measurables and athleticism. 

 

In whatever order, Simpson, Bruce Smith, Mario Williams, and Allen have elite measurables and athleticism, plus the top talent.

[hondo in seattle]

OJ, the man, is an evil monster.

 

But OJ the running back: poetry in motion.  He played back in day when defenses were designed to stop the run, DE's were tackling edge-setters, linebackers were killing machines, and the very best athletes became halfbacks anyway.  And OJ was the best of them all.

 

The youngsters here may not remember that at USC, OJ was part of the relay team that set a 4x110 world record.  OJ was fast and, as far as I know, he's the only Bill to own a world mark for non-football athletics.  But as good as a track athlete as he was, with his size, agility, strength and insane elusiveness, OJ was born to be a running back.  While backs like Cookie ran over people and backs like Barry jitterbugged his way away from people, OJ drew graceful curves in the gridiron that left defenders impotently grasping at the demigod that just blew by.  He had tremendous vision and a remarkable innate understanding of geometry that allowed to see opportunities before they even developed.  

 

In the 1970s, thousand-yard seasons were the benchmark for greatness.  The season, of course, was only 14 games long back then.  And it was hard to average 71 yards/game when stopping the bell cow back was typically Job Number One.  Still, in 1973, both John Brockington and Calvin Hill managed to rush for 1140 yards or so.  Given the defensive schemes and priorities of the time, it was a great accomplishment.  Yet OJ ran for over 2,000 yards - 75% more than the nearest competitor. 

 

When has any other Bill produced 75% more yards, sacks, receptions, TD, INTs, or any other meaningful stat than his nearest competitor?  OJ, in his prime, was beyond comparison, beyond words.  

[mannc]

OJ Simpson

Josh Allen

 

 

Bruce Smith

 

 

 

 

Eric Moulds

 

 

Cookie Gilchrist probably belongs somewhere on the list, but I never saw him play.

5 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

OJ, the man, is an evil monster.

 

But OJ the running back: poetry in motion.  He played back in day when defenses were designed to stop the run, DE's were tackling edge-setters, linebackers were killing machines, and the very best athletes became halfbacks anyway.  And OJ was the best of them all.

 

The youngsters here may not remember that at USC, OJ was part of the relay team that set a 4x110 world record.  OJ was fast and, as far as I know, he's the only Bill to own a world mark for non-football athletics.  But as good as a track athlete as he was, with his size, agility, strength and insane elusiveness, OJ was born to be a running back.  While backs like Cookie ran over people and backs like Barry jitterbugged his way away from people, OJ drew graceful curves in the gridiron that left defenders impotently grasping at the demigod that just blew by.  He had tremendous vision and a remarkable innate understanding of geometry that allowed to see opportunities before they even developed.  

 

In the 1970s, thousand-yard seasons were the benchmark for greatness.  The season, of course, was only 14 games long back then.  And it was hard to average 71 yards/game when stopping the bell cow back was typically Job Number One.  Still, in 1973, both John Brockington and Calvin Hill managed to rush for 1140 yards or so.  Given the defensive schemes and priorities of the time, it was a great accomplishment.  Yet OJ ran for over 2,000 yards - 75% more than the nearest competitor. 

 

When has any other Bill produced 75% more yards, sacks, receptions, TD, INTs, or any other meaningful stat than his nearest competitor?  OJ, in his prime, was beyond comparison, beyond words.  

What’s even more incredible is that OJ wasn’t even featured by the Bills in his first three seasons.  He had his breakout year at age 25 and his five dominant seasons took place between the ages of 25-29

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Jason Peters would have to be pretty high on that list.

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, Playoffs? said:

Can we throw Reed in there?  Reed was such a monster over the middle. 

I'd also throw in Thomas,  he was fun to watch while defenses couldn't stop him.

[wppete]

10 hours ago, Dr. Football said:

Easily Josh Allen! 

no doubt about it. Jonah Allen #1 already and still just getting going. 

[El_diablo]

Cookie Gilcrest and Jerry Butler.

[Forlorn hope]

1 Bruce 

2 oj 

3 Eric Moulds 

4 Jerry Butler 

5 Cornelius Bennett

 

Honorable mention Cookie 

 

Someone you forgot, Roscoe Parrish 

 

 

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

Although he did not display the athletic talent much when here, TO deserves honorable mention.  

[transplantbillsfan]

It's Josh. He's arguably the most talented player in NFL history.

https://theathletic.com/3546121/2022/09/01/josh-allen-bills?source=user-shared-article

Edited September 3, 2022 by transplantbillsfan

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Ed Oliver

"Yeah!!  Science, b****!!"

[BuffBillsForLife]

OJ, but if Allen keeps his pace going then he'll surpass him.

[Locomark]

Right now no one touches Bruce Smith because he was the best to ever do what he did. No other Bills player can say that. Josh can prove me wrong in another decade.  
 

you can say people like OJ, Thurman, Eric Moulds, Antoine Winfield, Micah Hyde, Jerry Butler, Cornelius Bennett, or even Doug Flutie had huge natural talents but to me that talent still needs to produce amazing jaw dropping results to be ranked the best.  
 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Locomark

[freddyjj]

21 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

On straight athletic ability it has to be Josh at the top, with Bruce right there and then probably Eric Moulds who played in a basketball final four. I am not gonna discuss guys from prior to 1985 because I don't know them well 

Moulds did not play on that Miss St Final Four team in 1996.  While he was a great HS Bball player he did not play in college.  

[BringBackFlutie]

Purely the most talented? Josh Allen is the most talented quarterback in NFL history at the moment. That's just science. Based on achievement, Bruce Smith is the best DE in NFL history, and given that he's still the prototype for DE I've got to assume he's also the most talented. So...it's a tie.

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, freddyjj said:

Moulds did not play on that Miss St Final Four team in 1996.  While he was a great HS Bball player he did not play in college.  

Apparently my memory sucks and I have been telling people that for years- that McNabb and Moulds faced off in the final 4, but neither got on court. My mistake and thank for correction.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Apparently my memory sucks and I have been telling people that for years- that McNabb and Moulds faced off in the final 4, but neither got on court. My mistake and thank for correction.

Relax.  It's not like you're pounding the table for Robert Foster for the HoF. 😁

[eball]

Before Josh came along the answer was (and still is) definitively Bruce Smith.  No one else is even close.

 

Based upon what Josh has become, and the improvement I still expect to see, by the time it is all said and done we may be able to have a spirited debate on the topic.

 

[BillsPride12]

19 minutes ago, eball said:

Before Josh came along the answer was (and still is) definitively Bruce Smith.  No one else is even close.

 

Based upon what Josh has become, and the improvement I still expect to see, by the time it is all said and done we may be able to have a spirited debate on the topic.

 

OJ is also there with Josh and Bruce.  Those are the 3.  As a human being OJ is a piece of s*** and I'm not celebrating him but he is in this conversation 

[mannc]

4 hours ago, Locomark said:

Right now no one touches Bruce Smith because he was the best to ever do what he did. No other Bills player can say that. Josh can prove me wrong in another decade.  
 

you can say people like OJ, Thurman, Eric Moulds, Antoine Winfield, Micah Hyde, Jerry Butler, Cornelius Bennett, or even Doug Flutie had huge natural talents but to me that talent still needs to produce amazing jaw dropping results to be ranked the best.  
 

 

None of the people mentioned in the second paragraph are even close to OJ…he is the only Buffalo Bill who, for at least a couple seasons, was the best player in the entire NFL. 

[78thealltimegreat]

Football wise?

1. OJ

2. Bruce

3. Kelly

4. Thurman

5. Joe Cribbs

honorable mention Mr. Bennett

Two more years… Allen 1.

[Rico]

9 minutes ago, mannc said:

None of the people mentioned in the second paragraph are even close to OJ…he is the only Buffalo Bill who, for at least a couple seasons, was the best player in the entire NFL. 

Guess you had to be there. I was, and OJ belongs at the very top of the list with Bruce and now (with a bullet) Josh.

[MJS]

Bruce Smith is #1 without a doubt.

 

After that is a rock, paper, scissors contest between a handful of players including Simpson, Allen, and Thomas, all three of whom were/are top of the league elite in some fashion during their careers.

[Irv]

It’s Bruce Smith.  Close second is Da’ Rick.   End of thread.  
 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Irv

[dhgold]

OJ and Bruce Smith.

[Dopey]

20 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

It's Josh. He's arguably the most talented player in NFL history.

https://theathletic.com/3546121/2022/09/01/josh-allen-bills?source=user-shared-article

If he was available in today’s game, I’d go with Elway. Dude had wheels and a cannon for an arm. IMO, he had a stronger arm than Josh. Steve Young comes to mind too.